I am having a very hard time with thoughts of my own problems.

[artman.1]

I have been married 44-1/2 years to my one and only woman I have ever been with romantically.  I've been with her for 48-1/2 years.  We were married soon after she turned 18.  She was the love of my life.  Over the years she has been so very abusive verbally and a little physically.  Two years ago I was being picked on very badly by my Manager at work and called the Employee Hot Line for help.  I couldn't sleep because I was getting the abuse all day and all night.  They sent me to a therapist that after 4 visits, claimed he was not qualified to really help me.  He referred me to another facility and I vas assigned a very qualified BPD therapist.  He had me read two books, I Hate You, Don't Leave Me, and Codependent No More.  I now know I am Codependent, and she is a UBPD based on my descriptions of her behaviors.  I studied BPD for a year, and learned all I could, and then turned all my focus on myself.  I joined CODA and attend weekly meetings, and work on my own behaviors during all my waking hours.  My wife and I have thgree sons, that are all three successful Engineers.  My UBPDW has stopped her part of intimacy about 42 years ago but allowed my Intimacy to be given to her, until 36 years ago.  She has had several affairs or one night stands many years ago, and even cheated on me two weeks before our wedding, as reported by her Sisters.  She does not realize that I know about affairs.  The last time she told me she loves me was on our wedding day 44 years ago.  I cannot believe that I have allowed all this abusive treatment over the years.  I know now that my codependence has tied me in knots all these years.  I did establish boundries and limits for myself and stopped her rages about a year ago, so things are better, but still no Intimacy. 

     I have been thinking about my own problems, and I am wondering about my own feelings.  I have had feelings that I just do not deserve love, and that I cannot really satisfy a woman.  I have been seriously thinking about leaving her, and wonder about my ability to ever find a woman that could love me, and fulfill my needs.  I have been very successful in my career and have spent much time educating myself over the years trying to find my own life rather than allow her to bring me down all the way.  I have completed over 500 credit hours of college and attained a Journeyman Electricians License working 20 years as an Electrician and going to school nights.  I now have a Nuclear Eng Degree and an Electrical Engineering degree and Professional Engineers License, and work as a Senior Electrical Power Systems Engineer.  All the Education just does not fulfill my life.  I need to be loved and to love a partner.  Since I have nearly no experience with women, and am afraid I may not be able to satisfy a woman since I never have satidfied my Long Term Wife, I am afraid to change my current life.  At least I do have a little congenial companionship now since I established boundries.  Anyway I am asking for any opinions I can get.

     Thank all of you for beingb here for me, Art

[Surnia]

Hi artman

I am following your story a while now. I can really relate with the fear to step out, the fear to dare something new!

And yes, work is not enough, it is a good sign that you recognize that work cannot substitute social encounters or even a loving wife. 

Did you ever thought about separation? Your own space somewhere? A little apartment?

Or traveling for a while?

You have to keep yourself busy, and out of the comfort zone of your prior life. Coda meetings and T are good steps, now you need follow ups.

Keep going, artman!

[Clearmind]

Artman! Being undecided is hard as you have come to realize and given your tenor here at bpdfamily.com I'd say you have a plethora of options. The difference being you may feel a tremendous amount of fear as to what now?

I agree with Surnia, your r/s is likely enmeshed, it takes you to exercise some emotional maturity - so what now? Start to expand your network, support network and interests.

What are your options?

[almost789]

Hi Artman!

Wow. 48 yeas! What dedication. It seems you are reaching a point where you feel youve neglected your own needs and feel you need and deserve better. No doubt being in a relationship with a BPD person one will find their needs lacking if not completely disregarded. How difficult would it be to leave and break up a marriage after 44years! I agree with Suria, perhaps you could separate or perhaps there could even be other options you could talk to your wife about. But separation would be one way of testing the water.

[Vindi]

  hi Artman, i remember you posted to me when i first joined and I remember your postings, and sad you are going thru such tough times right now and in the past.

What is it that you want to do? being married for 48 years is a long time, but if you are not getting what you want out of the marriage, what has to happen next, separation, divorce, yes it seems so hard and cold but you need to take care of you. Is there any way your wife is willing to change anthing?

How about some therapy for yourself or Coda meetings,as Surina suggested they are local!

Please keep writing and talking,it truly helps!

[artman.1]

     Thank you all for the thoughts and suggestions.  Presently, I see a therapist once per week.  I go to CODA Wednesdays most weeks, and 24 Hr Fitness Aqua. Tuesday, and Thursday Eavenings, and on every other Friday morning on my Day off Work.  Weekends used to be Hell for the past 30+ years until I established my Boundries a year ago and stopped the rages and filthy name calling.  Since then things are some better, but still no intimacy at all.  I find myself in a one way situation in a totally loveless, and abusive Long Term Marriage, (If you can even call this a marriage). 

     My own issues obviously arise from my Childhood, coupled with a very long term abusive situation.  After being abandoned by my parents during my entire childhood, and then rejected by my UBPDW the remainder of my life has left me lost.  The work I have done on myself to aim for recovery from Codependence has brought all these ingrained self defeating behaviors of mine to light for me.  I am working on them daily, yet facing continued abandonment and rejection makes it difficult for me.  It is difficult to stop the feelings of inadequacy, even though I know it is not me, but all about her, and her inner broken self that rejects me.  I just feel so helpless.  When I attempt to talk to others about Divorce that have gone through it reveals that she will get about 70 percent of everything I have worked so hard for with countless overtime hours and many years of reaching for my goals while she just stayed home, cheated, and talked me down every day.  One friend said it would be dumb to Divorce and just Man up and endure it.  My Father was an alcoholic and ignored everyone and drank himself to death, while verbally abusing my Codependent Mom while she worked to support our family, if you could call it that.

     Anyway, I just feel like I am drowning!

Art

[Surnia]

Artman

One topic that came out from time to time in my therapy is: Its okay to enjoy live. It is okay to do the best for me, its okay to be nice with myself.

I think its something important for you too.

Did you ever spoke to a lawyer about your possibilities?

Last summer I went first to a family helpdesk to find out what I had to expect in my situation with a divorce. It was only about the facts. Not the emotional side. But it was very important to have this clear.

Perhaps it is not wise in your case a divorce. I don't know. It could be help to be well informed.

You are on the way. 

Keep going 

[almost789]

What does your therapist say? You sound very down. I agree with Suria. You have to take care of yourself. We all deserve to be happy and loved. You should talk to a lawyer. If you get a good one, I don't think she gets half. But 50% might be worth it if it means your soul.

[OTH]

I am working on them daily, yet facing continued abandonment and rejection makes it difficult for me.  It is difficult to stop the feelings of inadequacy, even though I know it is not me, but all about her, and her inner broken self that rejects me.  I just feel so helpless.

She is going to continue to reject you. That pattern is established and I am sure it is difficult to continue to live with her. You are not broken and you do have some control over this. You have led a very successful life. 3 healthy productive kids and a great career. Why can't you do better and have healthier relationships with others? Can you expand your social circle? Join the country club... .  golf more. . Spend more time out with friends or with your kids? Maybe just making her a smaller part of your life will open up other possibilities to you. Have you tried to take some steps away from her? Has this caused her to act out?

Aren't you expressing an unfulfilled need here? This is a powerful statement.

I need to be loved and to love a partner

[artman.1]

     I have detached with love, understanding, and compassion.  I use Mindfulness each time I communicate with her.  I remain mostly upstairs and try not triggering her as my presence seems to do that.  It has become a very lonely life whenever I am home, even when in the same room with her.  She seems to dwell on some strange types of Morbid TV shows, like almoast got away with it, Murderous Women, and other shows about people killing people in these reality type shows, and of course the daily news isn't much better.  I cannot stand these shows, so I spend much of my time doing home projects and on the computer.  I read books about Codependency, and short stories on line. 

     Most of my Social time is with 24 hour Fitness, and my CODA group.  I have had a hard time finding friends that seem to like the things I like.  I was friends with a neighbor for awhile but he is the Cheapest man I have ever met.  I swear he cries every time he must spend even one cent.  He tends to take advantage of all his friends so he has none.

     I really don't believe I have any kind of bad Attitude, but I am sure tired of the life I have and especially after waking up to my Codependency, and working on it.

Art

[almost789]

Since youve sorted your co dependancy? Then perhaps you are finding you!  Maybe you should talk to your wife about what her and your options are.

[almost789]

I agree with OTH. Get out and open up other possibilities. If divorce scares you or would not be the best answer, then don't fret about it. Its time to think about you now.

[artman.1]

After I joined 24 hr Fitness and began a normal exercise routine, my UBPDW decided she would join, so I got her a membership and she began Water Aerobics.  I was running on the Elyptical Machine for two hours every other day set at 12, and 12.  I was keeping my heart rate up at 130 BPM.  I decided to try Water Aerobics and so I joined the class.  I was suprised that I was the only Man in the class.  Well, the first class almost killed me.  After the first 20 minutes I was out of gas.  I have now worked myself up to one full hour at full blast and my Heart rate is beginning to fall off to 120 BPM.  All I can really say about this exercise is it seems to be a much better full body and overall excellent exercise for someone like me with Artheritis in my knees.  I try to attend all classes and feel bad if I cannot go.  All this work I am doing on me is beginning to turn my life around.  I am not nearly as depressed as I used to be several years ago.  I have been successful in loosing weight as well, and succeeded in loosing 110 lbs over the last couple of years and see no symptoms of gaining it back.  It has been a change in my personal life habbits.

Art

[OTH]

Physical activities were a great help for me in putting my mind in a better state of health. Just wanted to clarify my thoughts before are what LGO2 states. You don't have to even think about divorcing her or acting any different towards her. Do you see how your wife decided to join and you wound up in the same class as her? Isn't this stopping you from creating and maintaining other r/s? Just having other positive r/s in your life is bound to make you feel better too.

[Surnia]

I am not nearly as depressed as I used to be several years ago.  I have been successful in loosing weight as well, and succeeded in loosing 110 lbs over the last couple of years and see no symptoms of gaining it back.  It has been a change in my personal life habbits.

Art

Great, Art. Little steps toward a healthier life. 

[mitti]

OMG art, you are amazing with everything you have achieved in your life and the love you have for your wife and all of us here. What woman wouldn't love you? I am so sorry your marriage have left your needs unfulfilled. You have not deserved that. But it sounds as though you are well on your way to recovery and a better life, with or without your wife.

[artman.1]

Thank You all,

     I have succeeded in making my life better only by working on myself and my Codependent behaviors, but there has been absolutely no improvement towards my needs associated with my marriage.  The marriage really does not exist since 36 years ago.  It morphed into a roommate type situation, with me meeting her needs, and her refusal to even think about mine.  I know this is associated with her BPD and possible other mental Illness issues, but does nothing for me as being in a very long term marrital relationship.  She has even stopped doing anything for me.  If I ask her to do anything, like giving me a glass of water, she refuses and tells me to get it myself.  She, on the other hand is constantly needy and wanting service of some sort.  I thought after my three sons grew up and left home, that I would easily leave this situation and find a new life, but NO!  She had sudden health problems and I simply could not fathom leaving her to deal with all that alone.  I even tried to excite our relationship by purchasing some Time Share Resort Condos, but that has only excited her to want to go on vacation but has done nothing for my needs.  I cannot say that the vacations were bad, but I could have gone with another guy and had the same fun (No Romance or Love), and he would have paid for his own meals. Ha!  In September, and October we went to Newport, California staying at the finest resort you can even imagine, and spent two weeks running up and down the coast eating out at the finest resturants and most romantic places you can find, and it did nothing for our Marrital RS. Ugg! 

     My Therapist is going to work with me to draft a letter for me to give her explaining my issues.  I cannot really talk with her directly because she just won't cooperate with me in that regard.  Her first comment interrupts me with, "What have I done now!"  With this kind of behavior, how do I talk about anything of any importance?

Art

[Surnia]

Art

as long as you are staying bc of her health problems she has no urge to take responsability to look for herself.

And yes, why not go for the next holidays alone or with someone else? I did this more than one time, when my marriage got worse. I enjoyed the holidays and enjoyed also to see my ex again. He didn't enjoy me being back. He got immediatly back to anger and ranting. This experience helped me to get out of the marriage.

[mitti]

I agree with Surnia, so long as you feel responsible for her health she is going to let you be responsible. And you are not responsible, not for her health and not for her. You have done your outmost to make your marriage work and you have put up with more than most. I understand you feel you a need to help her and be there for her, so may of us are the same way, but she is a grown woman, she is an adult and even though she is suffering BPD she does have choice also.

Go for a trip with a friend and enjoy yourself. Let her take care of herself for a while and see what happens.

[almost789]

Good advice here Art. I dont think  a letter to your wife is going to help her to meet your needs, but its worth a try i suppose and maybe you should start lining up your vacation!

[waverider]

It is hard sometimes when you start to fix yourself, you look at your lot in life and it no longer seems possible to plod along in the same old accepting way. You fear that unless you can drag the RS up along with you then it will hold you back like an anchor, and may even cause you to start loosing the momentum of your new found energies.

So the hopelessness starts to creep back in.

Often when you fix yourself, or even if your partner fixes themselves, you are different people who can sometimes be no longer compatible, even if the flaws are not as deep as they once were.

It is a hard balancing act, and given the intimate side has not been allowed to mature normally, you dont have any real concept any more about what is normal.

[Grey Kitty]

Art,

I've appreciated your support over the years, and I see what you are going through. My heart still goes out to you, and I'm impressed with all the progress you have made here.

Let me ask you an interesting question: Leaving aside any issues of divorce (money, hassles, etc.) do you think you would be happier living alone than living with your wife?

Also, do you want to be caring for her? (with her current health issues)

Being undecided is tough... .  but I know you are tough too! 

[Vindi]

good luck Artman w/the letter and hoping she acknowledges you and makes some change, for better or worse, then you can decide what your next step will be.

Yes, like others said, go on that time share alone, or with a buddy, have fun enjoy life, cuz it does go by quickly and you should be happy in life and have your wants and needs fulfilled.

Keep working on your codependency and staying healthy, even if its one hour at a time / one day at a time.

Wishing you the best, as you only deserve!

[empathic]

Just wanted to comment on the part about a partner being needy and wanting service. My wife is exactly like that, if I ever ask her to do something for me it's always a bother to her and she has to make some comment about it. On the other hand, she can ask for the exact same thing moments later without thinking twice about it. Doesn't really add up in my brain - I believe in "do for others what you want them to do for you".

My personal theory is that my wife became this way growing up with her NPD brother, where asking for something was considered taking advantage - but I don't consider this an excuse, merely an explanation.

[almost789]

Its my belief that sometimes people take the terms for better or worse to extremes. Would we tell a woman or man to stay in an abusive situation because of the vows for better or worse? To subject themselves to all sorts of abuse? What about the vows to love and cherish? What if those vows are broken? Just my thoughts... .  

[artman.1]

Thank You all for your responses.  SummerT321, I believe you have hit the mark here: What about the vows to love and cherish? What if those vows are broken?  I believe what she has been doing for the last 40+ years by stopping her portion of the intimacy between us, and the last 36+ years by totally refusing to allow any intimacy whatsoever, not even holding hands, is the worst abusive behavior that any Marriage could ever have.  She hasn cheated about 38 years ago, and that was less abusive to me, than the toral absence of love.  All I can attribute my own failure to act with a separation is our three sons, my need to support my family, my Codependent behaviors, with Fear, Obligation, and Guilt.  Of course I did love her at that time, but since believe I was really in love with a memory.  I am still a Codependent, but have done a lot of detaching with Love, understanding, and mindfulness, but not anger and resentment.  Just this weekend she tried to start a rage, and I left to go Upstairs and avoided her.  She had to deal with it herself, and sooth herself.  That is what I do every time she even thinks about raging.  Her rages never have a basis in reality.  She just wants to engage in an argument/fight/rage.  This BPD problem is just sad, really sad.

Art

[artman.1]

I just read a post by smartwoman220, Recycling attempts for me equaled the domestic abuse cycle

« on: December 20, 2012, 12:24:48 PM »

This post lists quite a few examples of abuseive behaviors.  I must admit that I have felt most of this list and more over the last 44 years of my Marriage.  It continues today.  I have an especially hard time facing this as it is not MANLY to allow your Wife to abuse you, so you just ignore and deny it.  My Codependent behaviors have really done me in by allowing all this bad behaviors from my Wife.  I agree that she is sick, but she has taken me down with her and I went along with it.  At least I was enlightened by a therapist finally, so I could really understand what is wrong.  I do not blame myself so much because my unfortunate experiences in life set me up for this.  My Father was a total alcoholic, and my Mom was a Codependent that allowed all the similar things that I have.  She never became aware that my Father was abusing her.  She died at 90 years old, still dreaming of my Dad.  I remember him verbally abusing her every day, endlessly, and that is where I learned what a normal Family Relationship is.  I have since learned that it was TOTALLY dysfunctional.  My father was present, but absent every day of my life while he was intoxicated.  My Mother was very enmeshed with him and was absent while dealing with his Dysfunctional life.  She became the breadwinner before I was four years old, because he was mentally missing, drunk, and could not work.  Someone had to take care of the family, and she did it. 

Art