Frustrated with myself for getting stuck in "old" ways of relating to people

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

I just got back from a social gathering, and I'm SO frustrated with myself! Growing up with a BPDm (waif/hermit) and a father who unabashedly says he doesn't like people, you can imagine I don't have the best social skills. They are getting better, and I am not nearly as fearful around others as I used to be.  However, I've found that if I meet new people and form new friendships, I can be the "new" me - friendly and even outgoing.  Yet, around people I've known for a while, I still act the "old" way.

Take for instance, a boss. My first job after college, 2 years ago, was a terrible experience (partly due to my boss, partly due to my own issues of not knowing how to be assertive and deal with people.)  When I left that job after 6 months, I came face to face with the reality of my own significant issues.  My next job after that, you can imagine i was in a very vulnerable place and very aware of my weaknesses.  I had a great boss who actually learned more about my family than I would ever have liked. She knew something was up with me, and she was very gracious to me.  I worked there a year, and during that time I grew considerably. But I've grown a lot in the year since as well, especially socially.

But this is what is making me so upset: I feel stuck whenever I'm around my old boss.  I desperately want her to know how well I am doing and how much I've grown!  I actually led a discussion group of adults, many older than I am, today, which is HUGE for me! Then tonight I was at dinner wtih a group and my old boss was there. I immediately clammed up and started acting awkward. There were new people I did not know, and I didn't even introduce myself... .  which is something I've gotten so much better at doing!

Now I am kicking myself. What's wrong with me? Was I just sabotaging myself (sometimes I do that)? Or what? Why is my relationship with my old boss stuck where I was when I first met her? And how can i help it progress?

[Claire]

I just got back from a social gathering, and I'm SO frustrated with myself! Growing up with a BPDm (waif/hermit) and a father who unabashedly says he doesn't like people, you can imagine I don't have the best social skills. They are getting better, and I am not nearly as fearful around others as I used to be.  However, I've found that if I meet new people and form new friendships, I can be the "new" me - friendly and even outgoing.  Yet, around people I've known for a while, I still act the "old" way.

Take for instance, a boss. My first job after college, 2 years ago, was a terrible experience (partly due to my boss, partly due to my own issues of not knowing how to be assertive and deal with people.)  When I left that job after 6 months, I came face to face with the reality of my own significant issues.  My next job after that, you can imagine i was in a very vulnerable place and very aware of my weaknesses.  I had a great boss who actually learned more about my family than I would ever have liked. She knew something was up with me, and she was very gracious to me.  I worked there a year, and during that time I grew considerably. But I've grown a lot in the year since as well, especially socially.

But this is what is making me so upset: I feel stuck whenever I'm around my old boss.  I desperately want her to know how well I am doing and how much I've grown!  I actually led a discussion group of adults, many older than I am, today, which is HUGE for me! Then tonight I was at dinner wtih a group and my old boss was there. I immediately clammed up and started acting awkward. There were new people I did not know, and I didn't even introduce myself... .  which is something I've gotten so much better at doing!

Now I am kicking myself. What's wrong with me? Was I just sabotaging myself (sometimes I do that)? Or what? Why is my relationship with my old boss stuck where I was when I first met her? And how can i help it progress?

[Blazing Star]

Now I am kicking myself. What's wrong with me? Was I just sabotaging myself (sometimes I do that)? Or what? Why is my relationship with my old boss stuck where I was when I first met her? And how can i help it progress?

Hi Claire,

It sounds like you have come far, and are feeling disappointed with yourself for slipping back into old feelings around someone with whom you associate these feelings.

I think perhaps this is quite natural, a conditioning of sorts that is hard to change.

If you could run the night again in your head how would you like to see it go? How would you imagine the 'new' Claire dealing with it?

How would it feel to practice this in your head a few times? Sometimes when we do this it can build our confidence and start the necessary rewiring in our heads to deal with the situation differently.

What are your thoughts?

Love Blazing Star

[Claire]

I think perhaps this is quite natural, a conditioning of sorts that is hard to change.

Blazing Star - Thanks for the encouragement that even though this feels weird and frustrating, it is natural, or even "logical". You're right. Sometimes that is the most helpful thing - to realize that my issues are explainable. They come from somewhere specific, and in that sense they're okay. It's okay to be broken. But it's not okay to stay here... .    I've got to keep pushing forward!

With the specific situation mentioned above, I did go back and visualize what my new self would have done. Actually visualization is super helpful to me, and I had visualized how I wanted to act before the actual event. Which obviously didn't work too well. I was also very aware of what was happening during the time, but didn't have the energy to make that push into the "new" me. Honestly, I think what threw me off was a situation with my FOO earlier in the weekend. Ya know, it just puts me in a funk where I feel like I don't deserve to exist... .  

So I have to forgive myself and move on. Thankfully my former boss is someone I see frequently (outside of a work context, which helps a ton!), and I know I will have another chance in a couple weeks. I'm already thinking through that situation and visualizing how I want to act, what I can specifically say, etc.

I do believe the growth in these kinds of relationships will come, even if it's slower than I would like. What you said is SO helpful. I am creating a separate "category" in my mind for those relationships which really bridge the old and new me. And I'm giving myself extra patience and grace with them. It will just take time. Maybe if I'm lucky some of these dear, helpful people who have already cared so well for me, will even understand... .  

[beinggentle]

I was also very aware of what was happening during the time, but didn't have the energy to make that push into the "new" me. Honestly, I think what threw me off was a situation with my FOO earlier in the weekend. Ya know, it just puts me in a funk where I feel like I don't deserve to exist... .  

I can deeply relate to your experience Claire. I'm also a fair ways into healing myself and still come up against this. I've had a couple of run-ins with my FOO this last month and like you, it threw me into a funk for days. And it also affected how I was able to interact with others, work, and everything. I do feel for you - it's painful, and you DO deserve to exist. Hugs.

I like yours and Blazing stars visualization ideas... .  hope it's okay if I share what I think we could do?... .  

Maybe when those old messages take us down we can beat them at their own game. I mean, in my imagination, those old nasty 'you don't deserve to exist' messages were planted so long ago that must live way deep down inside us. Because they 'know' that's where they can mess up our new behavior and beliefs the most - it's dark down there so they're hidden and they've dug deep roots and walls to protect themselves. They're so nasty and chicken-hearted at the same time, they won't come up into the light so that we can deal with them where we can see them.

So maybe... .  those funks we get into... .  do you think we can use them to our advantage? Like we can say to those nasty old things "okay nasty things ... .  you've brought us down here yet AGAIN. But this time we're coming down here fighting. We're close enough now to hear all the things you say so quietly to us and we're so deep inside we can give you a piece of our (healthy!) minds! And after we're done with you there's no way you're gonna want to hang around"

Ahh well. It would be nice to think that would work. Anyways I do offer my support and understanding to you... .  please do let us know how it goes when you see your former boss again in a few weeks. Hugs and support, BG.

[ConfusedMichael]

Hi Claire,

Please don't be too hard on yourself.  It's easy for us to fall into the trap of falling into set patterns in certain relationships.  It's even more common when we see someone again for the the first time in a while.  You pointed out that you've grown a lot in the time since you finished that job, but it's likely that seeing your old boss brought back the memories of how you used to be, and naturally you would be worried that your boss would have still seen you like that.  In those circumstances it's very easy to freeze and to fall back into old habits.  Sometimes it's easier to give people what we think they expect to see, rather than making that effort to demonstrate just how much we've grown as people since we last saw them.

If you happen to see your old boss again in a couple of weeks, you may find yourself more comfortable and more capable of being the new you.  Give yourself credit for the steps you have taken forward.  There will always be little set backs along the way, but so long as you keep picking yourself back up and doing what you are doing, then you will be doing great.  You will find that those setbacks happen less and less, and when they do happen you will find yourself caring about them less and less.

Take care of yourself,

Michael

[Claire]

Beinggentle - thanks for your support. It helps so much to know that others identify with my journey. And, as much as I would never wish on another the things that have brought them here, I'm glad that I am not alone when I come here.

they won't come up into the light so that we can deal with them where we can see them.

... .  

So maybe... .  those funks we get into... .  do you think we can use them to our advantage? Like we can say to those nasty old things "okay nasty things ... .  you've brought us down here yet AGAIN. But this time we're coming down here fighting. We're close enough now to hear all the things you say so quietly to us and we're so deep inside we can give you a piece of our (healthy!) minds! And after we're done with you there's no way you're gonna want to hang around"

I welcome your input on visualization! The picture you painted is actually really helpful... .  I think it's worth a try to attack things from that perspective . The key to what you're saying is to take a position of control and authority over the nasty thoughts rather than being "victim" to them, which is key in this whole recovery process.

Michael - thanks! Your perspective on my situation is helpful, especially:

[quote author=ConfusedMichael link=topic=193116.msg12194074#msg12194074  Give yourself credit for the steps you have taken forward.  There will always be little set backs along the way, but so long as you keep picking yourself back up and doing what you are doing, then you will be doing great.  You will find that those setbacks happen less and less, and when they do happen you will find yourself caring about them less and less.[/quote]
I guess one realization that I'm having a lot of trouble dealing with is that deep down, I want my old boss to be my mother. My BPD mom is the source of so much of what I'm dealing with, and every time I get too close to someone, I just want them to be my mom... .  which obviously isn't going to happen. So maybe I'm trying to sabotage the relationship to keep it from going deeper because my deepest fear is that I will get really close to her now that she's not my boss, but she will obviously never become my mother. And that will hurt a lot. Okay that was deep. I have a lot of fear... .  

Looking ahead to the next time I will see my old boss, I am focused on three things:

1) Acting toward my boss & her family the way I would toward any other family at this event. For instance, her daughter will be giving a short talk. If I appreciate what she says, I should go up and tell her so, rather than avoiding her simply because of whose daughter she is. I have many reasons to believe I have quite a bit in common with her daughter and we might become good friends. But I avoid this relationship because of her mother being my former boss. The truth is, I WANT to relate to this family in a healthy way. So I just have to keep telling those "nasty dark voices" that say I can never relate.

2) I need to NOT be so focused on the presence of my former boss at the event. I get very preoccupied with knowing where she is at all times and trying to hide, while alternately hoping she is observing me being "new" me.

3) Not trying to "get it all right" this time. I struggle with perfectionism, so this is an area of growth.

Now I'm thinking, I need to have a few very specific measureable goals. It's good to have the general mindset of (1) and (2). But from those, I can create some specific goals. Like "greet my former boss and family when I first see them" and "thank her daughter for speaking afterward". If those are my only interactions with them, then that's fine. If I have others and I mess up, it's okay as long as I do these two things that I have every reason to believe are possible, and not even that hard.

Ok so those are my goals, definitely more for myself than anyone else.

[beinggentle]

Hi again Claire! A couple things caught my attention from your first post, and this latest one. This is from your first post:

But this is what is making me so upset: I feel stuck whenever I'm around my old boss.  I desperately want her to know how well I am doing and how much I've grown!  I actually led a discussion group of adults, many older than I am, today, which is HUGE for me! Then tonight I was at dinner wtih a group and my old boss was there. I immediately clammed up and started acting awkward. There were new people I did not know, and I didn't even introduce myself... .  which is something I've gotten so much better at doing!

Now I am kicking myself. What's wrong with me? Was I just sabotaging myself (sometimes I do that)? Or what? Why is my relationship with my old boss stuck where I was when I first met her? And how can i help it progress?

And this is from your most recent:

I guess one realization that I'm having a lot of trouble dealing with is that deep down, I want my old boss to be my mother. My BPD mom is the source of so much of what I'm dealing with, and every time I get too close to someone, I just want them to be my mom... .  which obviously isn't going to happen. So maybe I'm trying to sabotage the relationship to keep it from going deeper because my deepest fear is that I will get really close to her now that she's not my boss, but she will obviously never become my mother.

First of all, I can SO relate to what you're saying! I've often wished my therapist was my mom! Or sister... or something!

Do you think part of this might also be that you're uncomfortable and/or embarrassed about wanting/needing to be cared about, or applauded for your successes by her?

I think growing up with a BPD mom we became very uncomfortable with our needs. At least for myself, I learned that if I needed comforting, guidance, or even approval and recognition, I shouldn't bother my mom with it. Especially the need for approval stuff; it was hard to even admit if I was happy or successful with something because I viewed her as being so unhappy - because of me. Point being, I became very reluctant to face my need/want to share my successes with others.

If you would have shared your experiences of success with her, what do you fear would have happened?

And, would it be possible to call her before you see her again, just to let her know you were thinking about her and wanted to share how well you are and how you've grown (as you mentioned?). I bet she'd be flattered and thrilled to know she had an impact on your growth!

[Claire]

Do you think part of this might also be that you're uncomfortable and/or embarrassed about wanting/needing to be cared about, or applauded for your successes by her?

Yes... .  Being Gentle, you're quite perceptive . I realize that she is one of the people who does care, and has known me long enough to have seen growth. But I do find myself with a mentality of, "If I don't get that care/affirmation from my family, I don't deserve it from anyone." I had never really thought about it being OK to have my successes recognized by others. I realized that I want that, but for some reason, "needing affirmation" has a very negative connotation in my mind. I guess I'm afraid of the vulnerability that brings into the relationship. To need someone is a very vulnerable position... .  

If you would have shared your experiences of success with her, what do you fear would have happened?

You know, it's a pride thing. Work is the area in life in which I've felt most competent, most "normal."  During the time I worked with her, my life was quite broken and raw, and I couldn't hide behind a mask of being a perfect employee. Even though at the time she was very frank with me about areas of strengths and struggles (and was compassionate), I still have trouble telling my successes because of how it acknowledges how I struggled... .  I know this does not make sense since clearly she did not reject me for those struggles then, so why would she now? I think I'm just afraid of the vulnerability in the relationship. I don't mind talking with her about work, my new job, etc.  And it's probably pretty obvious that I have grown. I just have trouble actually speaking about it with her. I don't think that made sense... .  

And, would it be possible to call her before you see her again, just to let her know you were thinking about her and wanted to share how well you are and how you've grown (as you mentioned?). I bet she'd be flattered and thrilled to know she had an impact on your growth!

Thanks for the suggestion. It sounds really scary to me. My first thought was, "I could never do that." I haven't put my finger on what the real issue is here... .  

Thanks for your help thinking through this situation!

Claire

[beinggentle]

I had never really thought about it being OK to have my successes recognized by others. I realized that I want that, but for some reason, "needing affirmation" has a very negative connotation in my mind.

See I think this is one of those 'facts' that are maybe just a belief. (?) I'm learning that needing affirmation isn't something that should be considered an indulgence, or something selfish. I think everyone needs affirmations of their success; people around us who are genuinely thrilled to see us succeed and find our own strengths. Maybe you can look at is not as needing 'something from someone', as just needing the recognition, in and of itself. And actually, I guess that would mean we need it from ourselves, just as much from others, wouldn't it!

Thanks for the suggestion. It sounds really scary to me. My first thought was, "I could never do that." I haven't put my finger on what the real issue is here... .  

Why? What do you think she would say?

I wonder if you phrased it like, "Hey it was so delightful to see you the other day. So many wonderful things have happened for me since we spoke last. When I saw you the other day I felt uncomfortable sharing it with you because there were so many people around. But it's really important to me that I share it with you, as you were such an inspiration for me, and so helpful to me as I made these life changes. I wanted to let you know how much that meant to me, and how much your support made a difference in my life... .  "

If someone said that to you, how would you feel? I'm betting pretty great, and happy to hear whatever followed.  

[Claire]

Update:

I saw my former boss today, as expected. I felt awkward and stayed busy talking to other people in order to make running into her less probable (even though I really wanted to talk to her!). She made an effort to come talk to me, and I got really flustered. I feel like I messed it up again. I am starting to wonder if she has noticed that I avoid her... .  

I hate that I can't come back here and report that I did amazing, all the visualization worked, etc. No. Not at all.  But I have to forgive myself and move on.

[beinggentle]

  Claire I'm so sorry it didn't turn out as you'd hoped. Big hugs and sending warm thoughts out to you. Try not to beat yourself up. These are really tough things to do. Take care. BG

[Blazing Star]

I am sorry too Claire, that is hard. Could it be that she/this is showing you that there is still a little more work to do here around those beliefs of affirmation, needs and vulnerability.?

I think the link between her and your mother and FOO issues is important. I forget if you are seeing a therapist? Do you have one you can sort this out with? For they would have some great ideas about how to delve deeper into this and help resolve it.

I think exploring that sense of uncomfortableness would help. Do you journal? Maybe some writing about how it feels to be vulnerable, the neediness associated with affirmation, the desire to have received that from your mother.

Keep being brave! And like beinggentle says, be easy on yourself!

Love Blazing Star