feeling without a brain

[Rockylove]

We often engage in philosophical debates.  I usually end up losing because he is a master with words and gets hung up on semantics.  I'm all about ethereal  concepts. 

Anyway... .  last night my bf and his son were having a discussion.  It was very late and they were getting loud.  It woke me.  I got up and came into the living room to see what was happening.  They both had had way too much to drink and I didn't want any ruckus.  They were discussing feelings.  My bf said that he feels independent of his brain.  His son said you can't feel if you don't have a brain.  They asked me to give my opinion.  I did, which of course was in agreement with his son... .  one has to have a brain or there is no way for the body to understand what it is experiencing.  I should have kept my mouth shut.  I sat for a few minutes listening to my bf try to rationalize his thoughts (which didn't make any sense whether inebriation from alcohol or BPD)  I know that he understands the science how the brain functions, but he was trying to explain his feeling that was independent of brain activity.  At which point I figured it was a pointless discussion and went to bed.  The two guys spent the next hour arguing over this with my bf insisting that one can feel without a brain.  When he came to bed he was still in a talkie mood and I was tired.  I told him that I loved him but that I needed to sleep so I could be on top of my game for work in the morning.  He said "ok, but I still love you from some place that isn't my brain."  HUH?

Can anyone shed any insight here?  Could it be that he was trying to explain the depth of his emotions that he can't intellectually justify?  Is that a pwBPD trying to understand (make sense of) or make others understand that he has hypersensitive emotions?  He's mentioned this before (while sober) but never really elaborated on the subject.  I often feel that he wants me to understand his thoughts (and most often I can relate in some respect which pleases him greatly) but it seems as though he wants me to make sense of something in order for him to break free of whatever it is that is confining him. 

Wow... .  does that actually make any sense to anyone but me?

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[yeeter]

It sounds like he was having a philosophical discussion.

I enjoy this.  And especially enjoy it with a glass of red wine.   

But I wouldnt read much more into it than this.  Intellectual exercises are just this.  intellectual exercises.  Every now and then when Im in the middle of one someone will remind me - 'thats fine philosophically, but whats the point?  How will it affect my actions"?  (In fact, this happens on this board even... .  we get caught up in principles or what ifs, and forget to live in the present)

I think in this case you had a choice - stay in bed and try to sleep.  In which case you could have come down, asked them to lower it just a bit because you were trying to sleep, and then go back to bed - NOT jumping into the debate.

Or come down and join the debate.  They might have seen it as a 'hit and run' where you throw two cents in and then retreat.  No biggie.

But just like the emotions, dont feel like you have to solve or make sense for him the philosophical conflicts.  Validate if they are causing him confusion - then let it go.  And unless you want to join in, you might avoid it all together when alcohol is involved (just more confusion... .  )

So my $.02:  Dont over analyze.  Figure out your boundaries (lower noise level so you can sleep).  Then move on.

This part:

He said "ok, but I still love you from some place that isn't my brain." 

Was just him continuing the debate.  Think of it this way, if he believes he can love and feel without a brain, its nice that he still expresses it to you.  So in otherwords, he was saying he loves you!  A good thing, no?  You can reply:  "awww... .  thats nice, thanks!"

[briefcase]

Yeah, it sounds like an alcohol-fueled "deep" philosphical debate.     Next time, it may be best to stick to a DEARMAN framed request for some peace and quiet!  Remember the "M" stands for mindfully staying focused on your topic.  You got drawn into their "debate" when all you really wanted was for them to pipe down at bit.   

[daylily]

The first time I heard about BPD        was at a seminar put on by one of the people whose books are recommended here.  One of the things he said was that pwBPD (and other personality disorders) have a disconnect between their rational or left brain and their emotional or right brain.  They get hung up in their right brain and cannot "bridge over" to the left to realize that their emotions don't make sense with reality.  The speaker said this may be the result of abuse or emotional trauma in childhood, and they get "stuck" in the emotional development level of a child, focused only on emotions.  Maybe this is what your bf is talking about.  For him, emotions are separate from his rational thoughts.  I've noticed this is true with my uBPDh.  He needs time to work through the emotions before he can get to the point where he can transition into the rational left brain and think clearly about solutions.

  Daylily

[Rockylove]

Thanks, Daylily!  If you wouldn't mind, I'd love to know where I can read more about that.  Getting "stuck" in the emotional development seems to make sense... .  there are many times that I've felt he's not caught up to his high IQ, if that makes sense.  He is extremely intelligent, but almost simple in some of his thought process.

I seriously believe he's trying to figure some thoughts out and make sense of his feelings and behavior.  I don't know if this is something he's always done or if this is something new, but he's been in a strange frame of mind lately.  All of the discussions seem to begin in the same place~~the underlying theme seems to be Biblically based right & wrong.  I don't subscribe to the "right & wrong" of traditional thinking and he seems to be trying to understand why I'm not absolute about it. 

[briefcase]

"Right and Wrong" is a type of black and white thinking:

Right/Wrong

Black/White

All/Nothing

Always/Never

Forever/Never

He seems like an intelligent guy, maybe he is trying to make some sense of things. 

[Rockylove]

Briefcase... .  one of his many perceived failures is the fact that he has a very high IQ and did nothing "of any significance" with his life.  He tried to be the suit and tie guy for one of his ex's and it resulted in disaster~~extreme stress, failed relationship and health issues.  Regardless, it seems as though he's trying to break out of the black and white thinking but doesn't quite know how.  I don't know if he's pressing me for more information or just being cantankerous at times.

[daylily]

Hi Rocky,

The speaker was William Eddy.  If you Google him, you'll get his website about high conflict personalities, and I think you can read some articles and buy his books there.  Funny, the seminar I attended was supposed to help me deal with people at work (clients and coworkers) who are high conflict, but it resulted in a revalation in my personal life!

Your BF sounds very similar to my H.  He is very intelligent with lots of skills, a "Renaissance man" of sorts.  Very educated.  He's feeling worthless because he hasn't accomplished much in his professional life.  It causes a lot of problems in our marriage, which he blames for the fact that he hasn't progressed professionally.

Is your BF diagnosed?  I think it would be very hard for a pwBPD to break out of black and white thinking, even if they want to, without treatment.  It's one of the core characteristics of the disorder.

  Daylily

[Rockylove]

No, Daylily... .  he is not.  I've no delusions of him ever going that route either.  He's so high functioning that it won't be a consideration, I'm sure.  I'm ok with that though.  He's really most delightful and we share a wonderful life... .  with all of our issues

[Aundrea]

It seems like he has some realisation that his emotions and other thought processes are independent to each other. So it seems like he has tucked his emotions in a box inside his head as a defence me mechanism. However being drunk he has even less control on keeping the lid of the box closed ... .  

I would read it as, he loves you with his emotions/heart and take it as a compliment and reassurance that he loves you

[Rockylove]

Thanks, Aundrea!  I think I will.  His emotions have been very accentuated lately and I suppose I'm just on guard right now.  I'm thankful that the emotions aren't anger.  He seems to have gone in a different direction this time.  If he has over exaggerated emotions, it's far easier to deal with the "sappy" ones than anger even if I don't have a clue as to what he's feeling.