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Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse... Have you considered that being critical, judgmental, or invalidating toward the other parent, no matter what she or he just did will only make matters worse? Someone has to be do something. This means finding the motivation to stop making things worse, learning how to interrupt your own negative responses, body language, facial expressions, voice tone, and learning how to inhibit your urges to do things that you later realize are contributing to the tensions.
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Author Topic: They will never "get theirs"...  (Read 981 times)
BentNotBroken
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« Reply #30 on: February 03, 2013, 06:10:24 PM »

... .  

Find out where the weaknesses are in yourself that left you vulnerable. Talk to a therapist. Rebuild yourself and your life. Let the whirling dervish whirl. She will punish herself, guaranteed.

Just a note on your metaphor of the whirling dervish:

They are part of Sufi, a mystical sect of ... .  Well, kinda a nondenominational religion but with strong ties to Islam. Generally peace seeking, love seeking, and God seeking, they whirl symbolically to find their center... .    of their center ... .  of their center.

I would not remark here except it is exactly and ironically what BPDs seem not to be able to do... .  Find their center, their core.

Yes, I am aware of who the actual "whirling dervishes" are, and I actually respect their spiritual beliefs and practices. I was referring to letting them be who they are and not trying to stop their whirling, because we do not understand why they whirl.

My use of the phrase "Let the whirling dervish whirl" refers to letting the crazy BPDex be the crazy BPDex, because that is who she is. We may never fully understand them, unless we are BPD ourselves, and even then with the many different presentations of BPD our experience of it could be very different.

A friend used this phrase with me during a period in my life when I was surrounded by some confusing and disturbing behavior of other people. I was trying to understand why these people were behaving in a manner that was apparently just creating more chaos and destruction. He advised me to take care of myself, look inward, and "Let the whirling dervishes whirl" because that is what they do. I found his advice helpful. (If you actually are a whirling dervish, and have taken a break from whirling to post on these forums, the alternate version of this figure of speech would be: Let the non-dervishes not whirl.)
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waitaminute
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« Reply #31 on: February 03, 2013, 06:33:08 PM »

Bentnotbroken

No Smiling (click to insert in post) I'm not a Sufi. I am primarily interested in their music. But I learned about them while trying to navigate the BPD waters of my ex who lives in a part of the world where Sufi is more prevalent than the US. I did for awhile wonder if that philosophy/religion would help her... .    In the way that some claim Buddhist principles can help BPD. But she will have to discover that on her own now.
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GustheDog
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« Reply #32 on: February 03, 2013, 09:37:56 PM »

The disorder is the individual- you can't separate them out into 95% disorder and 5% person. They are the disorder. This is the most difficult part to get because we don't get what absence of insight feels like.

Whenever my ex gets close to understanding the impact of his actions on others he has to recoil- the shame is unbearable. Why do you think the suicide rate is so high?

Recoiling from responsibility is an in built defense mechanism that he has no awareness of. He is just staying alive and running on through the only way he knows. He hates himself for it and one day he may get so low that he sees therapy is the answer- he gets there every now and again but as soon as he's coping again he starts to run again.

Blaming a person with BPD for not being responsible for their actions is like blaming a person who speaks french for speaking french. The disorder exists to not take responsibility.

I have witnessed similar behavior with my ex.  But there seems to be a bit of contradiction in your post here, and I don't highlight this to be pedantic, but rather because it actually helps me to better flesh out my point.

All this says to me is that there is some underlying awareness of something not being right, and that this something is a part of him.  He could not hate "it," if he did not know what "it" was, or at least that an "it" exists, regardless of how remote, fleeting, nebulous, or otherwise vague his awareness of "it" is.

I saw many examples with my ex that indicate the same sort of quasi-awareness.  For instance, during one period of dysregulation during the hater phase, my ex took an exasperated break from her raging, pressed her hands to her face, and said, "This is exactly the way things felt in the end with [previous bf]."  I could see what a harried, miserable person she had become during this several-week period, and I felt as badly for her as I did for myself.  But this is not normal, and she *knew* that.  Her word choice even demonstrates that she recognizes a *pattern* of abnormal behavior.

Another example - there are many, but just off the top of my head - occurred during a family (hers) gathering.  Her father (who is a huge trigger for her) was preparing to take a photo of her and her aunt together.  Her father is holding the camera and she flips out - shouts, flails her arms, stomps off.  She claimed he was hesitating to take the photo purely to get under her skin.  A few days later, I questioned her about this again.  She said, "Yeah, I was being a b*tch, I should probably apologize to him."  Granted, she never did apologize (to my knowledge), and this was a small, meaningless event (as compared to the breakdown of our relationship, with respect to which I do not expect her to even muster the courage or strength required to apologize).  Nevertheless, it is experiences such as these that leave me convinced that *some* level of awareness exists.  I've read countless posts here of analogous incidents that would appear to support this position.

I believe that many BPDs have the ability to overcome the defense mechanisms that keep them from focusing on or acknowledging these brief episodes of "clarity" rather than continuing to permit the coping mechanisms from taking over once they have that "recoil," as you've described it.  I'm sure it is extremely difficult and painful, yet possible.  Otherwise you would not see an average of 1-2 BPD or suspected BPD members posting on the new-member board each day.

It is not their fault that they have this illness, and I very much empathize with their struggle.  But everyone has various burdens to carry in life - some larger than others - yet the vast majority of other hardships are not also viewed as an abdication of personal responsibility, especially if and when they cause anywhere near this level of damage to the lives of others.

Perhaps my views will change over time, but at this point I cannot go any further than to say that I believe that BPD sufferers experience severely limited ability to function responsibly, and not that there is a total absence of such ability when and where significant effort is applied.  I will agree that they are the only ones who can decide if and when to face themselves, and it's very unlikely that anyone will succeed in "reasoning" with or "convincing" them that they're delusional.

I am also not suggesting that they can just stop themselves with a snap of their fingers and become "normal" tomorrow.  I *am* saying that they can decide to take the opportunity presented by moments similar to those I've described concerning my ex.  They can use those moments of rational reflection as the impetus for change.  They can say, when calm, "The way I respond to certain things is ruining my life and those of my loved ones - I should see a therapist."

But if you are a functioning member of the adult world, enjoying the same benefits and privileges of society as your peers, I expect you to do what it takes for you to play by the rules.  Ultimately this is consistent with the "focus on yourself" message, because when someone wants to have their cake and eat it too, when someone can't or won't apologize for egregious conduct, when someone wants the perks without the responsibility, I will gladly tell that person to go pound salt and wall off their noxious essence from my life.

And @Newton - certainly much blame lies with her FOO.  Many of her family members have PD traits, and her mother is hyper-critical and extremely passive aggressive.  Her father is a typical enabler.  My own FOO likewise set me up perfectly for this - an alcoholic, NPD father w/BPD traits.  It was anyone's best guess whether I'd be ignored, raged at, blamed, or sometimes even praised, on any given day for any given "reason."  I became a classic altruistic/compensatory narcissist.  My curiosity and fascination with the disorder and individuals affected with it has not prevented me from looking at myself.


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GreenMango
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« Reply #33 on: February 03, 2013, 10:13:29 PM »

Being concerned whether their behavior catches up with them can keep you stuck emotionally. 

It could happen or they could find someone who's willing to accept this.  Don't let your healing be hinged on whether they get better with someone else, be held accountable for their actions, or find someone who accepts this. 

Keep moving forward into something better for you.
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BentNotBroken
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« Reply #34 on: February 03, 2013, 11:17:03 PM »

Having emotions can keep you stuck, emotionally! Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)

It's OK to take time to work through this, especially after having your entire world shattered! I believed there was some kind of logic, or grasp of reality going on with my ex for a long time. There wasn't. It was just a long dance with a highly intelligent, mentally ill woman. It helped to get through this in my own time, and maybe I am not there yet, as my ex keeps attacking me on a regular basis. I have yet to see meaningful justice served for her many transgressions, and I frequently have to deal with my own anger at her abuse of our son and myself.



Sorry to be so snarky, I just couldn't help myself! Maybe I'm suffering from as yet unnamed disorder... .  
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