More manipulation, just a drip at the moment, but expecting a flood

[Forward2free]

I’ve been NC since 9/9/2009 with BPD/Nxh except through lawyers and court appearances.

Due back in court May 2013, BPD/Nxh wants more time with the kids, DD7 and DS5, beyond unsupervised 4 hours/fortnight that he gets now.

Last visit the kids came home with chocolates and flowers and yesterday, they came home with a dvd for me that BPD/Nxh thought I would like. It’s true, I did want to see “So, this is 40”, but BPD/Nxh sending dvd’s through the kids does 2 things in my book:

1.   Manipulates the kids – they think dad is being really nice to mum now

2.   Manipulates me – plays on my mind and I feel the vacuum of good vs the usual evil – who wouldn’t want more of the good? I will not fall for it, but I hate the fleeting thought that maybe things are different.  Of course nothings different! He’s the same exceptional actor/manipulator and nothing (except a miracle) will change his inflated opinion of himself.

For the record, I do believe in miracles, and I pray that I’ll still see one here, but I certainly think it is UNLIKELY.

I can see this going very badly for 2 reasons:

1.   If he doesn’t get what he wants this time around after he has tried so very hard to please me, will he rage again?

2.   What will the kids think of me – will they think I am being mean and unreasonable? They don’t know even 5% of the facts of what happened and what kind of man their dad is

I know these events must seem so minor to most of you still in the throws of daily evil, but in my book, it all reminds me of my daily struggle over 10+ years and I don’t like the way it’s heading.

Any advice on what to say to the kids? So far, I said thanks. It’s not the kids fault, they wanted the movie for me too. I don’t want to hurt their feelings... .  

[Matt]

By e-mail, or through the lawyers:

Please do not send gifts to me through the kids (or any other way).

If there are specific types of gifts you don't want the kids to have - like too much candy - you could set that boundary too.

But if it's not too much, it will be hard to object to gifts for the kids.

At those ages, they won't get a vote regarding the schedule.  All they will know is that ":)ad gives us stuff."  Maybe that's OK for now.  When they're quite a bit older you might let them know more about the past.  But unless he has been diagnosed it may be hard to make the past a big part of the custody process.

So... .  has he been diagnosed?

Could you file a motion to have both parents evaluated before May?  So you get the information out on the table?

[Forward2free]

It's funny you say that

If there are specific types of gifts you don't want the kids to have - like too much candy - you could set that boundary too.

they each had 4 icy poles at the last visit - one would obviously been plenty.

He has been diagnosed so that makes it easier, but is apparently not exhibiting signs at the moment. Forensic Psychologist has agreed to review court docs (supboened police records) which will show that he is exhibiting signs. This will surely help the report writer to gain clarity.

I'll write to my lawyer about not sending gifts and setting limits on junk food. I feed them a healthy lunch before the visit and a healthy tea after if they are not too wound up on junk food from the visit. His food choices have always been to indulge to excess on whatever he fancied at the time. They day he gave the kids 10 icy poles each, he'd bought a box of 20 and they finished them between the 3 of them.

They get gifts all the time. He is leaving more at his new house now which I am 100% sure is to make the prospect of spending time with him more attractive. I cannot afford to keep up with his extreme purchases, and I don't. The kids often say they'll ask dad for something if it is expensive. It's such a messy situation.

[Matt]

I don't know what an "icy pole" is but it sounds sugary... .  

So can you set the limit with the kids?  I let mine gather as much candy at Halloween as they want, but then they aren't supposed to eat too much each day.  (The last few years I've just thrown up my hands and figure they'll survive.  But when they were little I rationed it.)

Easier, and more educational, to work the issue with the kids than to try to change the other adult's behavior.

If he has been diagnosed... .  

* Do you have a copy of the diagnosis, or can you get it - maybe subpoena it?

* Have you researched the long-term impact on a child who spends time around someone who has a psych disorder and isn't in treatment?

* Can you call an expert witness to testify about how the parent's psych disorder(s) affect the kids long-term - how much higher risk for the kids - substance abuse and other problems?

[Forward2free]

Sorry Matt, should have said 'popsicle'. Given it's out-of-the-freezer form, hard to bring home, but I did have a conversation with the kids then and before yesterday's visit about only having one popsicle and tyring to make healthy choices. They always feel sick after a visit so my daughter who is older, certainly is ready to change her behaviour and monitor her brother's. Oh the joys!

I haven't don't too much research yet on long-term impact etc. Court case is in May, but we are waiting on the directions hearing in 2 weeks to determine if he has a case to ask for more time with the kids. If he has got there by deception, we can have it thrown out, therefore wouldn't need research this time.

I know it was by deception that BPD/Nxh got this far, but need forensic psych to review documents again, so am asking for copies to be sent to him, need magistrate to approve it at directions hearing.

Forensic psych will be our witness, and he will be able to answer to long-term risks etc. The family report writer is due to see us all at the end of the month and I will quiz her further on long-term affects for the kids. I think she has been the most level-headed and her job is to put the kids needs first. She mentioned having time alone with the magistrate before the court case so that will be a blessing too.

[tog]

Honestly, if I were you, I wouldn't say anything about the junk food... .  he has them for 4 hours every two weeks, and I think that will seem controlling and over-critical to people. I would imagine most non-custodial parents who see their children for 4 hours every 2 weeks would bring lots of treats... .  

As for the gifts to you, yes, that needs a limit set on it, through the lawyer. I think you handled it perfectly with the children.

JMHO.

[livednlearned]

I agree with tog, I wouldn't try to set limits on what the kids eat when with their dad.

S11 comes home with bags of homemade chocolate chip cookies every Sunday. He has usually eaten half a dozen by the time he gets home.

I don't say anything, I just don't offer much sugar during the rest of the week (there's already so much in regular ol' kid food anyway). When S11 feels a bit of a stomachache after binging on cookies, I tell him yes, I usually feel that way when eat too much sugar.

Your ex is trying to get any type of reaction he can. My ex has sent books and small gifts through S11 and I say nothing, not a peep. I don't see the point.

LnL

[nona]

Please remember how very wise your children are.

They know the truth in their souls. They were there, with him and you since conception,  they know the difference between  bat s**t crazy and you... Inside.  They will process it more like you when they are adults, but for now they are relying on you for cues by how you "take it".

The way you respond does matter to your kids.

Dont let him get you derailed by a video and sugar. Treat it like Junk mail. Dont respond. LAugh... .  try to take it lite.

The energy I spend trusting and remembering my true  connection with my kid  is more rewarding for us all than energy spent setting boundaries with my UBPDX. It reduces anxiety in me and our daughter


Toss the movie on the couch , let the kids eat the candy, laugh at that crazy ex in your PAST... .  DETATCH

Take it light , you deserve some lightness. The kids will like Mama Lite

[livednlearned]

One of the books that really helped me was Bill Eddy's ":)on't Alienate the Kids" because the lightbulb went off for me that how I respond to N/BPDx is actually modeling how I want my son to respond to conflict.

I can't do it justice here, but Eddy suggests a few techniques that your post reminded me of -- our ex's provide us with these meta examples that our kids look to us for guidance on, more than anything so that they have more than the "black and white" type thinking that our ex's model for them.

[Forward2free]

Thanks LnL - I have ordered ":)on't Alienate the Kids" book now and found quite a few others on Narcissism and BPD which will help in my court preparation.

Matt, I haven't been able to find an expert in Aust yet, but have made some good enquiries. Hopefully the 3 psychologists that will be called already will be able to shed some light too.

Nona - such beautiful words and you have reminded me of my faith that they will 'know' somewhere within them one day. I love that you reminded me to let go. I am good at this, I have been doing it for years, but he still manages to derail me sometimes and get me off balance.

Tog, you're right. The junk food in 4 hours doesn't really matter to me, I just try to gently tell the kids how to conduct themselves in a healthy way, and just because dad gives them a 2nd, 3rd, 4th popsicle, they don't have to say yes.

I realised that I didn't respond to his chocolates and flowers (sweetness), I then ignored his letter about my mum and I alledgedly speaking ill of him to the children (stick), then I ignored his DVD that he gave me (sweetness), and yesterday I got another letter from my lawyer about a fabricated story that he pretended the children said at the last visit (stick) which I also ignored.

His pattern is there, I just forgot to look at it from a distance.

The kids said to me, we didn't say anything about that X topic, dad just guessed what he thought we did but we didn't tell him anything. It's time I teach the kids boundaries. They need to feel comfortable saying no or not telling him things so he feels better. I feel sad that he is trying to manipulate them in only 4 hours a fortnight.