It takes a lot of courage to post this on the Staying board...

[Chosen]

... .  so no flames please I hope.

Long story short: he hit me over the weekend.

We were in the middle of an argument (raised voices etc.), and he tackled me onto the bed and hit me.  He also spit on my face twice.

He denied doing it on purpose, and said it was because I was going to leave that he felt the need to put me in control.  I told him that I was standing here, I reminded him at least once I'm not leaving, asking (ok, I was angry then so maybe shouting) can we just talk.  He ignored me.  He felt the need to tackle me on the bed.

He then claimed he was hitting the pillow, but when my bruise started to show, he claimed he was trying to hit the pillow and mis-hit me.  I just said even if this was the case, then the spitting is definitely intentional.  Was he trying to spit on the pillow too?

Anyhow... .  after the whole thing I still didn't say I was going to leave, or tried to call anybody.  I asked him to pray together (we're Christians) and he did pray to God he's sorry.  But then, just afterwards, he went on to complain about how bad a wife/ person I am for five hours.   And he kept "threatening" me, saying "yeah, I won't be hitting you again, next time when you make me feel depressed I'll just leave."  I have told him my current stance is to stay and we both work on the marriage.  If he wants to leave or anything, feel free.  I know I'm not the perfect wife (of course this does not explain why I got hit- it is wrong even if I'm a horrible person), and I'm happy to work on my part.  

Do I know the "safety first" workshops on here?  Yes.  And at that point what was in my mind?  I was at peace.  I really was.  I wasn't trying to put up a fight so you can say it caught me by surprise, but afterwards I didn't particularly feel unsafe as well.  That said, I’m meet with my counselor later today.  Am I sure he will not do it again?  I’m not.  He “promised”, so what?  I know what promises are.  Even after he hit me, he told me “no wonder your previous bf cheated on you” (something he said many times), and “you can’t take my loyalty for granted”.  No, actually I don’t take anything for granted.  I’m definitely not encouraging you to stay if there is violence, this time I chose to do so because I just wasn’t trying to put up any fight (also “helped” by the fact that I was cleaning our home for the previous 4, 5 hours).  I realise many of you would think I have done the wrong thing- I don’t know.  That said, if at that moment I really had tried to leave then it would have been much worse, that I know for sure.  All I’m saying is I didn’t feel like I was trapped into all this.  I felt this was my choice… and I’m trying to figure out if it was a foolish choice.  

Sorry for going on and on.  Will meet with counselor and see how that goes

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Cardinals in Flight]

Chosen,

I'm really sorry this happened to you.  I cannot imagine how this feels, or what would transpire if it did happen to me.

All I can say is please, please take care of yourself, only you know what is best for you.

(())

CiF

[waverider]

Sorry to hear this, and i am not going lay down the lecture on what you're supposed to do, you already know this.

it is a hard reality shock, you will have to now process this with your Councillor.

Take heed that when you first came here, even though he hadn't hit you he was being abusive and threatening, and you know this is the progression.

At this point you really do need to talk this through with the DV people as per original advise when you first joined.

There has to be consequences not just swept under the carpet, or he will forget that there is any consequence and will not hesitate to repeat this, as we hear so many times.

If it is your choice to let this pass with no more than a promise and a sorry, you will have to put your boundaries and consequences plan on high alert and leave as soon as things get heated way before it gets to this stage again, as next time it will probably be worse.

Others who have been down this physical violence path are probably best to advice here

[elemental]

Some traumas take time to sink in.

I think you may be in shock.

[anker]

I'm sorry this is happening to you.

safety first isn't just something you read and are aware about... .  that stuff actually applies to you too. the feeling that"my situation is different because... .  " is the same feeling every one of us has in that situation

i hope you're able to get safe. Xox

[Chattgirl]

I'm so sorry .  My heart hurts for you. Bps can be very capable of this like you and I both know. My bp has twice become upset with me and slammed on the brakes in the interstate slamming me into the dash.  It is ao scary to have this happen. I was in shock because i realized that a lot of bps are a victims  of abuse and now most of us are also victims of abuse. That is how the abuse cycle continues. I'm sure you know that this requires setting some strong boundaries. Only you can know what that will be. You need to really search your soul and decide what you need to do to protect yourself. My situation is totally different than yours but the boundary i set is that when our emotions are high i either drive us or we take two cars. I won't ride with him if i think i might have a melt down and say something that will trigger him. I hate walking on egg shells. Please keep us updated on what your response is going to be . I will be thinking of you. You have support here.

[Chosen]

Thanks all.

Am I in shock?  Well... .  perhaps.  But the saddest thing is I'm not even that surprised... .  it's not like "I can't believe he actually did that!"  It's just disappointment that he did.  It's not the first time either- he has done it before in mid last year, but last time he was in complete denial and to be honest I wasn't in a good state of mind myself at that time.

This time though, it wasn't provoked.  I have even told him that I have read up on domestic abuse, and he initially denied that what he did constituted as abuse, then later on he asked me a question, "You said you have read about domestic abuse- tell me, are the women who were abused as bad as you?"  This shocked me more than the hit.  I asked him back, "So you are telling me I should expect to be hit more than them?"

He kept on saying "I'll turn myself to the police... .  " etc., but in fact what he did the next day was to hide me from seeing anybody.  He purposely switched off my alarm, I think hoping that we would miss church.  When I woke up I insisted we go, then we went, and he later on made excuses not to see anybody else- funnily enough, he even refused to see his family.

You know what... .  of course I care about my safety and this is what I need to discuss with my C.  However, my aim is to improve this relationship, and at this point I don't think leaving is going to help... .  you know, we've all read so much on how they will agree to not doing certain things just to keep us there.  If he isn’t truly sorry then I don’t want an apology, and to be honest no apology can heal it anyway.  I have reminded him that I’m not scared of him, I’m not staying because I’m scared of leaving (yeah I’d be single and alone but I can’t care less what other people see of me), I’m staying because I want to work on the marriage.  Obviously, it takes two.  And I know very well that him trying to hide this means he doesn’t want to face up to his own actions. 

I am thinking of possibly telling him either to talk to somebody he trusts in his church, or I will do it because he needs to confront it.  But I will also talk this over with my C and see if this is the best way- again, I want him to not do it, I want him to work on appropriate ways to express himself, and I don’t want to be threatening him into doing anything- not that he would listen, but it wouldn’t solve anything.

[elemental]

you should be scared of him.

tbqfh

[BentNotBroken]

It will get worse. It is your choice to stay, but you should document the incident and your injuries with photographs. Keep the photos in a safe place that he does not have access to.

My BPD ex got increasingly more violent. I did not call the police because I did not understand or suspect BPD at that time. She intentionally destroyed evidence, and then made claims that I abused her. Protect yourself, even if you decide to stay.

If I could go back in time, I would have called the police the first time she got violent.

[yeeter]

Hi Chosen,

How can we best support you?

[laelle]

You are a wonderful person.  I can understand you staying as you did not want to encourage more drama, as you said, you were exhausted and not scared.  Today is another day tho.  Take care of you.  You are not only a wife, you are a great person.  No one is entitled to define who you are.  

[Chosen]

Thanks all.

I am staying for the time being (i.e. as long as no futher such abuse), but am putting my safety plan into place.  I have saved a nearby shelter's number in my phone, and my C now has photos of my bruised eye, just in case (I will not save that in my phone or computer, and my C will keep it safe).

My C has also encouraged me to talk to a family member, which I will (unfortunately no mum/ dad to talk to), and if it ever happens again, I will leave (to be honest likely only able to leave after it happens, as me leaving while he's so heated will create more trouble for myself), then I will only return with that family member.

You guys are right.  I need to have a safety plan in place, even though I hope not to have to use it. 

[waverider]

Its not a bad idea to write a plan down for yourself, if it is in your mind there will be a tendency to keep adjusting it until it becomes so vague you lack certainty when it comes time to enact it.

[patientandclear]

Chosen:

Sorry, this is long.

I lived through serious emotional, verbal and then physical abuse in my marriage (with the man I was with before my uBPDexbf, to be clear, for those who have been reading about him!).

I started making notes of things he would do because my own mind would play tricks on me and not recall the details afterward when I wanted to believe things were getting better.  When I would make myself go back and read the log, it was shocking.  Because it is utterly antithetical to any version of love.  It was a diary of venomous hatred toward me.

I think that's my point with this post.  I don't think it honors your partner, the love you've shared or your relationship to stay once this stuff is happening.  I stayed for years after he first hit me. Sometimes there were months between episodes.  I thought maybe it would be better if he stopped drinking (it wasn't).  It did, over time, escalate.  I don't know if this is because he was subconsciously trying to force me to finally do something to end our mutual nightmare, or what.  He did eventually almost kill me.  The only reason he didn't is that he passed out due to a combination of alcohol and sleep meds before he could do what he said he would do.  I stayed while he paced around and threatened it, because our 1 year old baby was in the next room.  He would tell me "go or I'll kill you."  I would say "I can't go without her."  He would say "over my dead body will you take her."  And so on.  When he passed out, I grabbed her, ran to the car, and left.

Then I came back a week later when he promised to change.

Then two years later he choked me in front of her, now almost 3 and able to remember it, and that was finally it, because he was arrested in front of my whole extended family (it was Christmas!) and even I couldn't rationalize staying at that point.  The awful thing is though, if they hadn't known, I might have.

I am sharing all those details because I want you to see what it looks like from an outsider's perspective.  Can you see how my loyalty, my commitment, my belief that the violence didn't sum up who he was, who we were ... .  it was all completely beside the point?  I was sending him a terrible message: that I thought love was somehow compatible with this.  It isn't.

6 years later, for what it's worth, we are friends.  He's still plenty messed up but he respects the road I traveled after we split (which included a contested divorce, required abstinence and DV treatment, and legal findings conditioning his access to our daughter on compliance with those) and we have very clearly established that he abused me and that it is unacceptable.  All the love and good feeling between us from early days somehow survived, and my point is, it survived my escaping and naming what happened and rejecting it.  While we were in that ugliness, the love was totally corrupted and twisted.

Yes, I do respect you posting this on the Staying board, and again, I stayed, for a long long time.  But having learned the lessons of that experience, I hope in honor of your love for your partner and your commitment to the bond between you, in addition to your love for yourself -- you leave.

[waverider]

I guess the message you are hearing is that unless something tangible changes, nothing will change. Words and promises do not count, all they succeed in doing is putting things on pause for a while.

It is hard enough when something like this is totally out of character in an otherwise balanced personality, but for an aggressive pwBPD it is positively dangerous.

[123Phoebe]

Hi Chosen,

I don't have any good advice to offer, but think it's a very smart move for your C to have photos of your bruised eye.

Please take very good care of yourself and listen closely to the information P&C provided you with.  She's lived through it and speaks from the heart and the trenches.

How are you doing today?  You have all of our support   I'm so sorry you're going through this. 

[Steph]

 Staying or not, here is reality.

You have been physically battered.

You have been physically battered more than once.

If you stay, you are telling him it is ok for him to hit you again.

If you do nothing, if you stay, you are essentially giving him permission to continue with his battering behavior.

  You said it came out of the blue. It will come out of the blue again.

He is blaming you, and it will " be your fault" next time.

Unless you take drastic steps, there WILL be a next time.

Next times are often worse than the previous times.

You know what you should be doing.

If you dont know, what would you tell a daughter, or sister, or another loved one to do?

Physical battery is NOT a typical part of BPD, tho people with BPD can batter. People without BPD can batter, as well.

Staying with a batterer is not what a christian ( or anyone) is expected to do.

He CAN get help, but as long as he gets away with his behavior, he has no reason to.

What are your reasons for thinking its ok for you to be in such a volatile and unsafe environment?

Sorry for the bluntness, but I am trying to remind you of what you already know

Steph 

[Foreverhopefull]

  So sorry to hear about about the violence you received. Here is my 2cents:

I would recommend that you take some time away from him and without any contact to heal and think; heal your heart and mind from the events and think about what you want: stay or leave. You need to have a chance to think about what you want and being around him and having contact with him will not help you think of yourself. He might do everything he can to distract you of what you need to do for yourself.

If you choose to stay, all I would recommend is maybe have a written agreement between you both (leave the signed copy with your C). The type of agreement that stipulates the consequences for his actions right now (i.e. therapy, counseling, detox (not sure if this is an issue), etc), what you will be doing to help YOU with this (i.e. leave the house for a few days to heal, seek additional counseling, etc) and what will happen if this is repeated in the future (don't tell him that you will leave to live at So and So's house, or share your safety plan) like saying that should this happen again, you will call 911, you will ask that he be taken out of the house, etc.

This way you have in writing an agreement that is clear and precise for both of you and you are both accountable to respect it or deal with the consequences of not doing so.

Again, sorry this happened to you, I hope that you are doing better.

[Cardinals in Flight]

Is your counselor not bound by law to report the abuse?

I'm just asking because you may want to prepare for some type of intervention by law enforcement.

I could be wrong, but where I live, any report of domestic violence requires charges be filed, regardless of the victims reporting or not.

Thinking of you, and will be reading to find updates just to see if you are "here"

 

[crazymade]

I don't know what to say, Chosen, except i am there with you. it is always shocking when it happens. the only advice i have to give is to use the tools here to try and de-escalate the situation when it comes up. they don't know what they are doing. My H has been working very hard on not getting 'too' mad, and he's doing a lot better. i have received advice from here, and most people do tell me to leave. but i'm married and in love with the  man i've loved all my life. We are both trying very hard. You have to nip this in this in the butt before it gets too bad. God bless you!

[Tormenta]

 

Just some hugs and support.

My opinion is similar to Steph´s but you look very confident and sure to go on and work on your marriage and it´s perfectly OK to me, you look really strong and with the feeling of knowing what you want to do, but take care.

[yeeter]

Hugs chosen.

It did take a lot of courage to post here.  I'm guessing in part because you knew what advice you would get.  Although you were very clear up front about you decision to stay in the relationship, I hope that you will consider some of the suggestions.  A written safety plan.  A contract.  Some time apart with contingencies on getting back together.

If he can't agree to these things then it's really saying that he isn't owning his own behavior.  That he is minimizing the significance.

I'm curious about a hypothetical question:  what do you think would need to happen, before you WOULD end the relationship? 

[martillo]

@Chosen  I don't post often, but I know you and I posted similar topics recently and we seem to be in a similar situation.  I am sorry that you are going through this and I can empathize and sympathize w what you are feeling and what you are going through.  It is not only scary, but feels so degrading and humiliating. 

Several years ago, (before I knew anything about BPD) I had to learn about creating a safety plan.  I have never had anything formally written but I have taken to heart the safety precautions and I have used it on a number of occasions.  Find what works for you and know that you are in my prayers.

[Blazing Star]

Oh Chosen   sorry to hear about this. I hope you are okay. You sound strong and level-headed about it all.

And I also wonder if you are Normalising it?

I normalised my partner's aggression for a long time (holes punched in walls etc), I think I became a bit numb to it. It wasn't until I told two people who very clearly said "Um, Blaze, this is Not normal, nor is it okay, you know that right?"   

So um Chosen, this is Not normal, nor is it okay, you know that right?

It sounds like you do, but it also sounds like you need to clearly and strongly express this to your H.

There needs to be the kind of consequence that makes him say "Whoa, hang on a minute, she isn't taking this".

Yes he is ill, but as you know, there is a part of him, the part that you love and that loves you, that knows that this is not right, to treat your partner in this way (and then to add blame and avoid responsibility for his actions).

You need to do something differently, something that says this is not acceptable. It is admirable that you respect his abandonment trigger, I wonder if you left (for a week) or did something else very out of character he might realise that no longer can he do this.

It is beautiful that you have so much compassion for him and his illness. Please don't let this compassion diminish what has happened, how he has treated you.

Like Yeeter, I am interested in the question "What would it take for you to leave?" not because I think you should leave, but because I think it is important to really think about that so you recognise it if it gets to that point. Otherwise you may keep living with his behaviour.

Before I met my partner, if someone has asked me if I would be with someone who was violent in front of their/our children then I would say 'no way', but I was, and I didn't recognise that. That makes me feel a bit sad. You know my story though, when I had my  moment, and took my daughter and left for two weeks (very out of character for me), it was the catalyst for us, and we are both on the road to recovery. And no more holes in the walls!

I know you are being told some confronting stuff, and possibly feel much of it is not relevant to you or your situation. Please take some time to really think about this.

Love Blazing Star

[Vindi]

hi chosen, just wanted to see how you were doing, i watch your posts and you post to me alot too... .  I remember my therapist used to say to me that I was just not 'ready' to end the relationship, even though deep down i was unhappy in it, it take time, it takes alot. I am not saying to end the relationship, but alot of other posters did chime in on their thoughts. I just want to wish you safety and hope that you are doing the best that you can.

[elemental]

He is doing a lot of "look what you made me do".

After things have calmed a bit, what is he saying?

And how are you?  

[Grey Kitty]

I am so sorry to hear that you have to deal with this. 

But I'm also going to say that you have to deal with this. Sorry to be tough about it.

I'm in a different situation--I'm a guy, stronger than my wife, no children to worry about. And I was in a place a year or so ago where verbal/emotional abuse was starting to escalate to physical abuse. I had a long conversation with a dear friend who was in long abusive relationships with two different husbands, and want to pass along some of what she told me.

This sort of abuse--it will either get worse or it will get better. It won't just stay at the same level. And it will tend to continue the direction it is going.

You have experienced it getting worse. Unless something drastic changes, it will continue to get worse.

Remember, you can't do anything to make him stop. All you can do is make it perfectly clear you won't tolerate any more physical abuse. (Or better yet, ANY abuse, physical, verbal, emotional)

Set your own boundaries that will protect yourself, things like having your cellphone ready to dial 9-1-1 and a plan for how you will immediately leave if it seems dangerous to stay. But with stuff coming "out of the blue" that doesn't seem like quite enough.

If you want to change the trend, all you can rely on is your own actions to do it. It won't be easy. He won't like it. But waiting to act won't make it easier on you either.

Be strong, take care of yourself, find friends or family who will support you.

And whatever you do, keep on being brave enough to post things here. We will support you here.

[Chosen]

Hitting somebody is not right in any circumstances.  H did something wrong and I have repeatedly told him nothing can make his actions reasonable.  I have expressed it to him and he agrees with it.  He volunteered that next time if he feels he's losing it he will leave then come back later.  Of course, this could be just talk but at least he volunteered that himself.  He never agreed to any time-outs before, for me or for him.

I have told him when we were calm and reiterated yesterday that I am happy to talk about things with him, I will listen, but I do not tolerate him raising his hand on me, or throwing things at me etc. 

At this moment, I can only take his word for it.  If I choose not to trust him I'd just leave.  I didn't tell him (I don't want to sound like I'm threatening him; I'd just do it) but if it ever happens a second time I'm leaving (not for good, but leaving to go to a member of the family and only come back to my home with her). 

In the past, he used to drink, and for a while he lost control (he claimed at that time he didn't).  In the period of about half a year he got drunk twice, with little memory of what happened (including doing potentially law-breaking things, screaming things at me like he's possessed, etc.).  After the second time he realised the severity of it, and he hasn't touched a drop of alcohol since.  What I'm saying is this could be like his drinking, or it could be different.  Nobody can tell at this moment but time will tell and at least I have a plan now.

[laelle]

As I remember from an experience I had similar to yours.  You wont go until your good and ready.  Just make sure that if and when its time to go you dont waste time doing so.   Also, dont trivialize or excuse the act to warrant you staying.  Its important that you keep that focus on his actions and not blame yourself.  Be safe Chosen. 

[Want2know]

You guys are right.  I need to have a safety plan in place, even though I hope not to have to use it. 

I have been in your 'shoes', Chosen.  It's not a healthy place to be.  I stayed with my NPDbf for another 4 months, and then took him back again for another 8 months after our initial break up.  I know what it's like to be in denial over the gravity of being physically abused.  A gash that left a scar on my face, and 2 black eyes.  I, too, took photos and sent them to a friend, and said many of the things you have said to myself and to others when I was in the thick of it.  I was eerily calm about it, looking back on it all now.

Bottom line is no one deserves to be battered, and there is absolutely no reasonable explanation for that kind of behavior - BPD, NPD or not.  I know you know this, and hope that you find the strength to make the best decision for you.