What effect would a BPD dad have on young kids as they grow up?

[momtara]

I don't really know which forum is best for this.  My BPD husband and I have two very young children.  I filed for divorce but am going back and forth about it.  Husband misses the kids greatly (he sees them once a week) and says he's willing to do anything to be a family again.  He started therapy but I have to find out what kind.  He has acknowledged some of his problems and seems aware of them.  If I was to take him back, I'd have to have a lot of patience to respond appropriately to the mood swings and such.  He's not physically dangerous, and has no addictions - just has periodic dark moods during which he can't communicate except to give orders and say controlling things.  He tries to stop me from taking the kids for a walk and such, saying it's too hot, too cold, whatever.  I'm sure he'd work on this stuff in therapy. 

But I wonder how it will affect them as they get older.  He also has a negative view of society and of a lot of people.  I don't want them to grow up among anxiety and negativity.  But he can also be wonderful.  I am scared about letting him back into our house when this may be our chance to separate.  I feel like I can breathe again without him being around.  But I don't want to make a selfish decision.  I want to do what's right for the twins. 

Having two parents around is important.  Yet, having two parents who are miserable, or one parent who goes into dark moods and is controlling, I don't know.  Seems like the parents on this board are struggling with kids who were affected by a partner's BPD, but is that always the case?

My kids are so happy now.  I'd hate for them to grow up gloomy.  Seems like there are very few studies on young children with BPD dads, only moms.  (That's a topic for another day.)

[Blazing Star]

Hi momtara,

I have 2 young children and their dad is BPD. We were close to splitting, I moved out for 2 weeks to think about it, for us that was the turning point - he realised he wanted to be with us, I realised that things needed to change. So I drew some boundaries, and he started therapy - DBT.

Luckily for us this has worked out. We have both been doing the work on ourselves, and his therapy is Really helping, as has mine. He knows that rages are no longer acceptable, he takes a time out if he needs to, but hasn't needed to for ages, his parenting is improving dramatically, and he is a much happier soul. I am a better communicator, more relaxed and working on codependency stuff.

I can understand your fears for your children growing up in that environment, mine fears were the same, they are such precious little things our babies, and also such sponges!

Only you can answer if you should stay or go. If you are thinking of staying is there anyway you could use this as a "this and this need to change for me to stay" time. Or make it a temporary thing dependent on x, y and z changing? And give it a time limit in your head, make a contract with yourself that if things haven't changed in 9 months you move on.

Do you think/feel he is serious about making some changes?

Are there other ways of coping with the gloomy times - ie you and the kids go to stay with family/friends or just spend lots of time outside the house doing Fun Stuff? And some extra time to nurture and pamper yourself during these times?

I too have wondered about BPD dads and studies. My therapist reassures me that as long as one parent is stable and healthy then that is a good predictor of positive outcome for the kids.

I think if your H can make some changes, and you can use the tools learnt here then that would be okay for your kids. If you don't think change is possible then that is a different story.

I don't know if this has been all that helpful, I guess I just wanted you to know that there can be some positive outcomes. My life has done a 180, it is pretty incredible when I think about it. It is not all amazing, but it is 100times better, and he is so much happier, and we are happy together.

Let us know your thoughts.

Love Blazing Star

[PeppermintTea]

Hi

This is my first ever post here. I've been reading the forums for a couple of days since finding this site.

Momtara you've just summed up my dilema completely. I also have two very young children and have exactly the same fears.

My partner should be starting therapy next month (it's a bit different here as we're in the UK and so dependant on what the NHS can provide for him rather than choosing our own therapists). I have decided to give it 12 months and I will also work on myself in that time, and if things don't improve after 12 months then I will separate from him as I don't think I could continue if his behaviours towards our children didn't change at all.

I would also love to see some research on the effects of a BPD father on young children and their development. If anyone knows of any could you please post links?

It is reassuring to hear that having one stable parent makes a big difference. I really really hope this is the case.


Thank you folks, PT

[Hopeliveshere]

Our S had become physically ill and had to be hospitalized for a month. But his father was not a father to him, just a raging drill sergeant. The hospital social worker would not allow son to return home until uBPDh left the house. I should have learned my lesson then and not let him back as the illness continued on for years.

[mamachelle]

Hey Momtara and PeppermintTea

I don't know enough of your situations, but I can give you a little taste of mine.

I have 2 DD who were 5 and 7 when my exBPDH and I split up. My exH was in no way capable of handling DBT, staying on meds, or doing anything other than making a lot of promises.

MY DD have survived and thrived luckily. They are now 13 and 16.

I did remarry to a NonH when they were 8 and 10 so that helped at least in terms of having a good Dad around but that's not the goal here.

As far as neuro and behavioral stuff, my DD now 13 seems only to have inherited  dyslexia which she has worked hard to overcome

My 3 SS did inherit some weird neuro stuff probably from BPD mom and some from my nonH family as well. Dealing with that, but they are ok and much better then if they were still living with their BPDmom.

SO as far as my DD, when we were post divorce in a sort of EOW phase for a few years, their Dad would continually subject them to inappropriate comments and living arrangements. He became abusive towards them. First emotionally, then physically.

At that, I filed a motion for supervised/suspended visitation and luckily was able to with an amazing lawyer, GAL and some real hutzpah and luck get them away from their BPDdad completely.

My daughters tell me new things their BPD dad would do or say still, now, 4 years after NC.

It's terrifying for me the prospect of having continued to live with him. It's terrifying thinking of them ever being alone with them again. Now he will message on Facebk but they never respond.

BPD Dads in my experience can not handle the everyday stressors of parenting that well. So, if you feel that you are doing this for the kids, but the kids have to be on their best behavior with him, if you feel like all your attention and energy is going into fixing him and fixing  the marriage, if he is not in DBT or some other suitable therapy, I would advise you to take some time to make up your mind and really step back. Always leave that door open to get out.

As the years went on BPDDad became hyper critical of everything and hypocritical as well.

He would swear the girls should not have labels on their clothes and should dress properly.

Then he would yell at my DD for wearing boyish clothes not girly enough, which of course involves labels.

He got upset when  one DD was in skating or the other in soccer when it was his visitation.

He would say skating was dangerous but then subject the kids to late night driving as he raced around parking lots.

He thought DD braces made her look bad.

I would ask your BPDH about some of the big things like,

Hey, what do you think about when DD or DS starts dating?

BPD Dad would say things like, they can't date until after college. He was serious.

I grew more and more worried as my DD got older that he would go completely nuts as they hit puberty. And well he did... .  

Again, I want to stress that if your BPDDad can not handle the stress of his own life, he is not in a position to handle the stress of parenting either and you will suffer and so will the kids trying always to "walk on eggshells"

Good luck and keep posting!

[momtara]

Thanks to everyone who gave such great responses.  It's hard to know if internet sites are really a yardstick of what life is really like (people who aren't in trouble won't go to the net), but your stories have helped.

I feel uncomfortable with the idea of hubby moving back in.  It scares me.  Yet, I feel bad for him.  So I have such conflicting emotions. 

For those who are trying to work it out, has yours done anything other than go into rages?  I was putting up with the rages.  What woke me up is when he accused me of abusing our son when I hadn't done it, at all!  He is now sorry for that, of course.  He probably imagined it.  But I am scared it could happen again.

Still, he IS getting therapy.  Not sure if it's DBT and I will find out this weekend.  Since I started a divorce action, he's careful what he says to me.  But he is going to tell me when we meet up next week.

If only there was a way to divorce him and still do some stuff with him and the kids.  But that's not really fair to him and gives him false hope.  I just can't seem to poop or get off the pot.  I either have to divorce him or let him back in eventually.  I'm scared of both options.  They both have big consequences. 

[mamachelle]

momtara

Please trust your gut. Trust your fear of being with him in the same house again. It is real.

Please read

Gift of Fear by Gavin deBecker

and

also see this link:

"Warning signs you are dating a loser"

www.drjoecarver.com/clients/49355/File/IdentifyingLosers.html

The behaviors, the raging, the accusing you of abuse are all very scary things. If you are separated and divorcing I would highly recommend continuing with the plan. Just my .02

Look at the cycle of abuse here and he is in the sweet cycle.

Also, if you want books on BPD dads-- look to children of abusive dads.

BPD was and still is considered more of a woman's illness until recently and men would not receive a DX because they would not go for therapy or were dx as bipolar or depressed or whatever.

There is a lack of literature on BPD men and Dads but there are plenty of them out there and there are many books/websites et al on abusive men and dads.

Again, keep posting and 

[hithere]

My kids are so happy now.  I'd hate for them to grow up gloomy.

Sounds like you answered your own question.

My ex with BPD had a father with BPD, I think it can be genetic.  But I would say even if the genetic predisposition was not there your kids would certainly learn to be negative by the constant exposure of living with their dad.

Maybe try increasing his visitation first?

He has acknowledged some of his problems and seems aware of them.

From my own personal experience and from what I have read on the boards this is quite common, a person wit BPD will say anything to not be abandoned.

[momtara]

What I meant about the kids being happy is that they are just happy by nature at this age - they're both under 3 and have never really been sad.  They don't know what's been going on (althogh my son would try to protect me when I was fighting with dad.  It's kind of cute, but I don't want him to have to fill that role). 

Before a few months ago, the worst my husband had ever done was just order me around and try to be controlling.  these periods would last a few days and be over.

But falsely accusing me of abuse (and to law enforcement) went too far.  I'd always be worried while I share a home with him.

YET... .  he is very sweet, loving, and does some really nice things.  I don't think it's all a mask or an act.  I think he wants to be good, but legitimately has a disorder.  It's not his fault. 

I think what makes me sad is the word "never."  If we get divorced, and he gets the right help over a few years, it'd kind of still be late to have him back in the house.  I just feel like I'm making such a final step. 

[larissap]

Have you thought about a 'trial separation'?  It doesn't have to be for ever.  You can set some goals, timelines and get help from a marriage therapist and see if things improve. 

I separated from my uBPD (w/NPD traits)ex for 6 months and then got back together for 2 more years before finally leaving him.  We did not manage our separation well, with little or no therapeutic help and no boundaries or goals.  However he refused to get help and never really changed.  He barged his way back in (and I let him) and only hoped things would improve and got help again once he moved back. That was too late, it should have been while we were separated and been managed by a therapist.

This is a third option you don't seem to have considered and is a 'wait and see' option without committing either way.  If you both see a therapist and one together for the marriage you will know, with help from others, whether it is time to let go or try again with him moving back.  Nothing is forever and even if you divorce you could still remarry of course - others have done that.

[Matt]

You can learn a lot by reading (but not posting) on our board for adults who were raised by someone with BPD:  https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?board=7.0.

My stepson was raised by his mom, who has BPD.  They moved a lot, across town, even though she worked at the same place, so he didn't have long-term friends or neighbors.  Little contact with other adult family members.  No consistent adults in his life except his mom, who treated him great at times, was mean to him other times, and ignored him a lot.

He started staying out til she was asleep, then sneaking in, and leaving in the morning before she got up, so he wouldn't have to deal with her.

Drinking by 12.  Meth and weed in high school.  Never clean and sober til his late 20s.  Now in prison til he's 37 (but clean and sober for 4 years).  A great guy - my younger kids and I all love him - but a victim of how he was treated as a child.

[momtara]

Yeah, we are rushing into divorce kind of fast.  The thing is, I don't think that in, say, six months or a year I'll be any more ready to take him back, and then he'll just feel that I put him in limbo for a year.  And he wants to come back RIGHT NOW.  I am considering asking him if he wants 6 months more of separation, but that'll be six months of him recycling me, then asking if I'm ready to take him back yet, then getting frustrated, etc.  Seems like I have a chance to divorce, or can take him back in a month or so, but I don't know if prolonging it will help.  I can't stand getting phone calls from him now or having him in the house.  I do love him but I guess maybe I'm too scared and emotionally exhausted to have to deal with his negativity anymore.

Maybe I can hold off on divorce for a few months, but I have a feeling things may worsen if I do that.  That said, it's an option.  Thanks for all the suggestions.  Keep them coming.

[larissap]

Well I think you keep answering your own question in regards to taking him back or not.  Your answers all point to a big fat NO. 

So if you continue with the divorce you have to be prepared for what will come next and that when he sees you won't take him back all hell could let loose.  I would read the divorce/law forum to get an idea of the things you need to do and what might happen.

As far as the kids are concerned noone can answer how they will be affected because it totally depends on how their father reacts.  My ex has treated me badly and my life is really difficult with him as an ex and tAnd he kids have definately suffered when he has used them as pawns or put them in the middle, but not too badly.  That is because they live with me most of the time thankfully.  It might have been different if we shared custody.

You can't know wha tis going to happen but if you are aware he is a BPD and what might happen and read and get advice on here, you will be well prepared.  And a happier you is better for the kids too.

[momtara]

Yeah, I've been preparing myself in various ways.  I just feel really bad for my husband now that he's faced with losing me and the kids.  He'll get them once a week and that's it.  I guess guilt is common for those of us leaving.  I started therapy so maybe I can deal with the guilt.  Or maybe he'll turn back into an angry person and I won't feel quite as guilty. 

[Matt]

The good news is, if someone like your husband decides to get help, he can get a diagnosis, and if it's BPD or something similar, there are very effective types of treatment - talk-therapy called Cognitive Behavior Therapy - which has been showed to be very effective long-term (years).

But unfortunately, most people with BPD don't get treatment, or don't stay with it.  That may be your husband's choice too.  And then his behavior probably won't get better.

[Grey Kitty]

Yeah, we are rushing into divorce kind of fast.  The thing is, I don't think that in, say, six months or a year I'll be any more ready to take him back, and then he'll just feel that I put him in limbo for a year.  And he wants to come back RIGHT NOW.  I am considering asking him if he wants 6 months more of separation, but that'll be six months of him recycleing me, then asking if I'm ready to take him back yet, then getting frustrated, etc.  Seems like I have a chance to divorce, or can take him back in a month or so, but I don't know if prolonging it will help.  I can't stand getting phone calls from him now or having him in the house.  I do love him but I guess maybe I'm too scared and emotionally exhausted to have to deal with his negativity anymore.

Maybe I can hold off on divorce for a few months, but I have a feeling things may worsen if I do that.  That said, it's an option.  Thanks for all the suggestions.  Keep them coming.

I'm not in your shoes... .  but *If* you want to re-consider divorce, my thought is that the last thing you want to do is jump back into what you were doing before. It really has to be something different, something that will give you hope of changing the dynamic.

You say he is in therapy, and is motivated to improve the situation. An option that would actually be different would be Therapeutic Separation (and this is a link to the bpdfamily.com thread/article)

[motherof1yearold]

How old are the kiddos Momtara?

When I filed for divorce about 6 months ago , my little girl was 15 months old. Long story short, he completely with held her for 30 days. Blind sided me. My daughter had never been away from me even for 5 minutes, she was (and is) still breast feeding and really didn't know anybody but me.

I know there is something called OBJECT PERMANENCE... so by what he did withholding her for 30 days, she will be affected by it and have abandonment issues like BPD people have . Also with her father being BPD she is at risk 5 times higher!

Also , please do understand that children will almost ALWAYS seek attention from the emotionally unavailable parent- in your case I'm assuming the Father.

Another heads up- if you withhold the children - he will certainly use it against you in court. I don't know how your husband is with money, but often times the Father will go for slightly more custody to avoid paying child support. (ex: 60/40 ) my ex attempted to get 60% until I agreed that both parties did not have to pay support, then suddenly he dropped down to equal parenting. 

Basically it can go two or more ways with BPD Father's involving child custody

Either they will want nothing to do with caring for the children and fighting for custody , including avoiding child support

OR

They will use the children as weapons against you, also to punish you. If this is the way it starts going, just know courts don't favor Mother's anymore. At all. Now when they see  a Father coming in their court house fighting for custody (especially of infants/toddlers/young children) they are viewing them as a breath of fresh air and WILL NOT think twice that it is a continuation of power/ control/ domestic violence over the Mother .

Your BPD ex may feel he owns he children, attempt to gain control over you or even weasel his way back in.

Let us know how everything is going so we can protect you and the children from a frustrating legal battle.

[momtara]

Things were going ok while I was being nice to him.  But last time I said he couldn't stay over for two nights.

He began a campaign of calling me dozens of times a day.  Then that stopped, and he started claiming I am withholding the children.  Today, he said he came by and I was not there.  He then forwarded me some emails he says he sent me, telling me he was coming.  I never got any of them - so he made them up today.

I need a new lawyer who is experienced with this stuff.  It is getting out of hand.

[Cmjo]

Hi Momtara,

Yes I agree with the others you seem to have so much doubt, you love the idea of being together as a family, and it is very hard as a mum to have to make the decision because you worry so much about how the kids will be affected.

Sometimes I wonder where we would be now if I had left when the kids were so young, instead of waiting until they were 9 and 10, last year. They have witnessed terrible verbal abuse and raging from him, and domestic violence by me to him, terrible. I lost control a few times I was so angry at the incredible accusation he would make at me... .   in those days I did not understand why or how he could say the things he did, I just thought I must be going mad myself.

We are great mums and parents, but having been in relationships with pwBPDs, we are weaker and have lostbour own self-esteem, we try to rationalize that it will be ok in the end, we are in denial about seeing our own children being abused, we want to help our BPD and not abandon them. I think it is very clear however that your conscience has decided for you.

Yes please stick with this forum, it is such a help, it takes times to work out the answers to your own situation, but especially when there are kids involved we have so many questions... .  

[momtara]

Thanks, cmjo.  Luckily, my H's behavior has made it real clear what I have to do.

At least you got out before your kids were teenagers.  I've seen people here who never left, and wish they had.  Don't be hard on yourself.  At least your kids know what their father did wrong.  My kids may grow up and blame me for not giving daddy another chance.  Who knows!

I just want them in a calm house without tension. 

[Cmjo]

Yes I am sure Getting out before they hit teenage years was right, things could only get worse. But its not easy, they feel guilty (they know we often argued about issues relating tonthem) and they are worried because their dad has been playing the distraught abandoned victim (even accuses them of abandoning him) and making them feel guilty, they know they need to soend time with him to look after him, they usually come home after a few days on their best behaviour with him and let it all out and vent at me, but now I am in a calm place, I am a better mum and my oatience lasts soo much longer!