Will the roller coaster EVER end?

[Furuma3]

First of all, many thanks for all the support these forums have given me. I've gotten into counseling (SO refuses to go) and will be meeting a L tomorrow to form an escape plan as needed. Feeling more empowered every day after 15 years of the FOG and rages.

The funny thing is, now that I'm setting boundaries, being resolute and avoiding the triggers (well, as much as possible), things do get better at times. My wife is trying to control her rages, not abuse me or the kids, and probably genuinely fears I will leave her if things don't change (although she still finds ways to get out of the counseling). She's more affectionate and aside from pretty much daily guilt trips for perceived slights (which I'm getting better at ignoring) I'm in a pretty good place- for now.

But let's not fool ourselves- the other shoe will drop and rages, blaming and crying kids will return any day now.

I just would like to get a handle on other members' outlooks as far as what you expect in staying (how will it be?) or leaving (how will your SO take it?).

My T says to hope for the best but prepare for the worst, but I'm having a hard time imagining what the best is after 15 years of enduring the roller coaster.

Give me some hope if you can.

[hithere]

Will the roller coaster EVER end?

Well you are on the undecided board so I will give you the hard-truth.

No it will not.

If you stay she will almost surely revert to how she previously was (or worse) and if you leave she will likely be the ex from hell - such is BPD.

At least if you leave you have a chance at having a more normal health, loving relationship with someone else and modeling a proper relationship for your kids.

It will be a long road either way... .  good luck and staying strong.

[morningagain]

Furuma3,

Honestly, I cannot tell you from first hand experience.  I am currently trying to stay centered and work on myself rather than consider or contemplate my wife's offer to reconcile.

I can tell you that the tools I have learned have helped in our discussions to keep from triggering her and to keep from her triggering me.

Your situation is unique to you, your wife, and the dynamics of your relationship.  I have read some accounts from one BPD woman who seems to have truly healed, but it appears she healed outside of a relationship.  I mean she really healed.  Yet she still acknowledges that in someway, the BPD is and always will be a part of her.

There are others who have stayed in their r/s with their BPD s/o.  Some of these accounts seem like they would be very sad and lonely for me if that was my future.

My belief is the best one can do in your situation or mine is to find peace, wisdom, and strength within ourselves.  Inside of the r/s, this will pave the way and make it easier for the BPD spouse to live with her disorder, and/or, depending on the person, the spouse, and the dynamics of the r/s, can make it easier for her to seek therapy and heal, mature and grow.  This could lead to a healthier relationship.  Perhaps it will trigger her to the point of no return for the r/s?  The general case I observe from these boards is the more stable and self assured the spouse over longer periods of time, the more stable the BPD spouse.  Therefore, with what you are doing with yourself, looks to me like you have realistic hope for a lessening/stabilization of the roller coaster ride.

Fact is, nobody has a certain answer to what will happen, other than I do know that you can work on you and stabilize yourself - as you have demonstrated - and that stability can (and has, so far) help her stabilize.

If I were to go back to my wife, I would continue to work as much as I could on myself, stay in my values, stay with my boundaries, and I would accept beforehand that whatever my worst fears are - they would come to pass, and I would have a plan that if that happened, I would follow through with my "consequence plan" with grace, strength, and kindness.  If I am not confident in myself that I could follow this script, I will not go back.

Being on the outside of the r/s now, and looking in, I also must answer the question - "will I be able to live a healthy and rewarding life, if she does not heal, AND she does not cross my point-of-no-return boundaries?"

I am proud of you that you have been able to make progress with yourself while in the relationship.  Wow - really, really - WOW!

Keep working, keep learning, keep exercising your virtues.  BPD categorizes a wide spectrum - your wife is not the same as every other BPD woman.  There may be hope for your r/s, there may not, but perhaps you do not need to answer that question today (not that you have - maybe I am projecting - ).  It sounds like you are on the right path and the answer to that question will become clearer over time as the F.O.G. lifts and you become stronger, more peaceful, and wiser.

Great job, my Friend!

Michael

[morningagain]

oops - hit the wrong button 

[another_guyD]

@Furuma3

May I ask, what does it matter how they take it? "Normal" people don't take divorce well. You cannot live your life on how SO takes it. As for expectations? Expect a storm. If you get nothing, AWESOME! And if you feel disappointed about getting nothing talk to the T because you need to work that out, your identity is tied to SO actions.

 The "frequency" of the BPD changes, but not the base behavior unless the person makes a hard to do on the fly BPD check in their personality fro every response.

Kinda like a navy men of old who just got off the boat and back with his family with young kids... .  he has the desire to use rough language because he is used to that. But he checks his every sentence because the kid is around. Oversimplification yes and somewhat stereotypical but i think it works.

The thought processes are set to some degree as a personality disorder is a set of behavioral responses. This is one of the reasons the diagnosis is rarely seen in youngsters (I have never heard of child personally). The best way to put it is they mellow as they get older (less energy I guess). As I studied BPD I ran across some families that had mothers (50's) that are now diagnosed BPD. They had the impulsiveness but not the energy. But some became very intense. Micheal999 is correct that all are different as BPD is a psychs catch all of behaviors. And labeling a human this or that is really not good, we rarely fit in any box. But you will be dealing with some form of the behavior, even if they "overcome" some of them.

The underlying thinking that garners the diagnosis will not change. If you are unhappy now with that person, you will be unhappy later. You might find inner peace, you might become happier with yourself, but it will not come from SO,  it will be in spite of SO. You might learn to avoid most of the known landmines (ie walking on eggshells) the SO has, but you will be walking a tightrope leading to a field with more mines. My bets are you will never tell yourself looking back "... .  man I am glad I stayed."  And my bet is if you leave: in year or two (it takes time to get rid  of fleas) you would not, even under duress, say "I wish I hadn't left."

^This is something I have never thought, and many thoughts have come since the 1st year of my divorce.

Now if you are truly asking is the grass greener on the other side of the fence? It is, but it takes some pain and introspection on your part to get past the tendrils of the SO. Even in NC they linger.

@micheal999 - I would advise you to disregard the reconcile. Unless she commits in writing to permanent help, even then I personally wouldn't. I don't know the specifics but pain will await another go around, it will not be a fairy tail. You must stand strong and be indifferent or SO will see you as weak. SO will rant at you if they perceive you to be strong. They will use you if you are seen to them as weak.  

Nathan  

[Furuma3]

Yeah, thanks guys. What you've been saying is exactly what my gut has been telling me for years now. I tend to imagine the moment of my death, whenever that may be, and wonder if I'll tell myself, "I never really lived- most of my time and energy has been spent with the emotional black hole that is my SO."

There are other factors: She was diagnosed with gastric cancer over a year ago, but is now cancer-free after surgery/pill chemo. However, this is a HUGE FOG weapon for her arsenal- How could a jerk like me be so cruel to a cancer patient, you're going to bring the cancer back, blah,blah,blah.

I know it's not my fault or totally my responsibility, but it's hard to work up the nerve to get a TRO against a cancer patient!

Oh well, I know in my heart I need to, and also that the next post here will likely be in the "leaving" forum.

Thanks for the helpful words,

Matt

[morningagain]

Yeah, thanks guys. What you've been saying is exactly what my gut has been telling me for years now. I tend to imagine the moment of my death, whenever that may be, and wonder if I'll tell myself, "I never really lived- most of my time and energy has been spent with the emotional black hole that is my SO."

There are other factors: She was diagnosed with gastric cancer over a year ago, but is now cancer-free after surgery/pill chemo. However, this is a HUGE FOG weapon for her arsenal- How could a jerk like me be so cruel to a cancer patient, you're going to bring the cancer back, blah,blah,blah.

I know it's not my fault or totally my responsibility, but it's hard to work up the nerve to get a TRO against a cancer patient!

Oh well, I know in my heart I need to, and also that the next post here will likely be in the "leaving" forum.

Thanks for the helpful words,

Matt

Hey Furu,

I feel for you.  Kids and all.  The cancer thing is a nasty twist, in that it is being wielded as a weapon against you and by proxy your children as well.

As best you can, come to a decision based on all concerned.  If your kids' daddy is getting disabled, bad for the kids.  If your kids' mommy continues to be harmful to your children - even if it is only by their witnessing her interactions with you, that is something to heavily weigh.  I sincerely thank God you seem to have a great therapist as evinced by your progress while living "under-the-gun".

She is cancer free.  If possible, delete her past cancer from your considerations.  She also must have had a traumatic childhood.  She PRESENTLY is SERIOUSLY ill with a terrible psychological disorder that 'infects' everyone around her.  Put her past cancer into perspective.  Stress levels contribute as intangible 'toxins' to many illnesses, physical and psychological.  Who is causing the stress levels in everyone?  How deep and ingrained is the damage to you and the children and can it be undone?  Can you protect and nurture them inside the relationship?  Will they grow to become strong, independent, mature adults by your example in the ongoing face of disorder?  How much does she contribute to the children vs. how much does she damage them?  There are innumerable interactions going on, now and in the future.

Whatever path you take, you have a heavy burden, and an obligation to be strong and stable for them during the present and coming maelstrom.  Weigh heavily this, nothing to fear but fear itself.  Your children look to you now, and will look to you forever, particularly during today and the coming months.  What do you wish to imprint on them?

I am not trying to compel you one way or the other.  I am emphasizing your children's need for a strong father who does not lose it, who exhibits confident decisions in the face of pain and adversity, who treats everyone with patience and respect, regardless of which very difficult choice he makes.

This is about you, my friend.  Split or stay, that is not your primary choice.  The by FAR most important and valuable thing you can do is be that steel beam that they anchor on and learn from.

Sigh.  do not make the mistakes i made.  easier said than done.  I do not know you, but I believe in you.  You are a good man.

Blessings, brother,

Michael

[another_guyD]

Can you protect and nurture them inside the relationship?  Will they grow to become strong, independent, mature adults by your example in the ongoing face of disorder?  How much does she contribute to the children vs. how much does she damage them?  There are innumerable interactions going on, now and in the future.

Michael

Be very honest with yourself in your evaluation of the kids. The cancer would mess with me as well, making it very hard to make a decision.

But since that has been treated successfully I think you should concentrate on what is best for the kids period. Is their interaction with SO is positive? Also consider though, SO's interactions with you are affecting them as well.

I have a very young son, and in my case I made a stable home for him elsewhere.

[Furuma3]

I am noticing the kids are being affected by her being back (she has been in her home country for the last 6 weeks for "business"- they get upset and cry much easier, are nervous, the whole package that comes with being emotionally abused. And I feel like a failure for not shielding them enough.

Well, the nice period has officially ended as of 2 hours ago. She said she can't pretend to be someone she's not (meaning someone nice, I guess).

The cancer blaming started and I disengaged. She said she feels better after venting on me and is at least civil, but this is absolutely no way to live. I think she sees it too.

She's been asking a lot of hypothetical questions about divorce and division of wealth, but thankfully not child custody. I do expect a knock-down drag out when the time comes, but hey, actually 99% is the b*&ch while 100% is a breeze!

My Friday L appointment can't come soon enough! Any advice?

[Clearmind]

Furuma it really is a tough one and like others have already said detaching is key. We are a trigger and anyone close to them are too.

We have a legal board here - lots of knowledgable folks on there. Maybe start a thread of what questions you can pose to your L! And how to manage a smooth legal process.

Does your L have experience of high conflict relationships?