Keeping myself on pause

[maria1]

I don't want to be on pause. I don't want to feel like I have to be there when my exBPD ups the ante. I tried to be his friend but he just pushes and today I finally admit defeat.

I read somewhere that we deny stuff because it is too uncomfortable for us to face it. If I turn my back on my ex, finally, I admit that he used me and threw me away. I admit that he only comes back because he hasn't found anybody else that ticks as many boxes as I did. And that feeds into my own narcissism and makes me feel uncomfortable.

What I cannot accept from him is the lying and the way being his friend makes me part of those lies. I know his secrets. His latest women don't and I find that impossible to handle. I cannot be friends with somebody who hurts people. I won't be part of that, being his 'friend' makes me part of that. It makes me feel sick. he special friendship he wants makes me feel sick.

Maybe this is more detaching than PI but I don't need to detach, I'm done. I told him to F*** off. He was supposed to meet me yesterday but then said his windscreen shattered on the way and he couldn't phone me because I won't give him my mobile number. He just thinks he can manipulate me into giving him my number.

He can't help but push at my boundaries. I've tried to tell him I can't give him my number because the constant contact between us is no good and I can't forget the nasty stuff. He just says I should remember the good stuff and then he says I'm in a bad way and asks if I'm talking to anyone. I am in a bad way but I'll be better when I don't have people in my life who just take. Just a shame that's most of the people I know. He knows that too so he offers me more. Really he just wants me on the end of a string.

I need to feel anger- I need to post here because I need to express that anger. He is a controlling, manipulative man who is like that because he is disordered. Being around him is impossible for me. I give in. I choose me.

[turtle]

I need to feel anger- I need to post here because I need to express that anger. He is a controlling, manipulative man who is like that because he is disordered. Being around him is impossible for me. I give in. I choose me.

Good for you, Maria1.

It's not "giving in," either... .  it's demanding the respect that's rightfully yours.  That's not giving in. That's standing up for yourself and refusing to be someone else's door mat. 

Bravo!

turtle

[maria1]

Thanks Turtle- I get lost in whether or not he means it. He doesn't, like a 3 year old.

But I can't take it any more. I've tried stating my needs in grown up language. Telling him where to go is straight forward and he can just think of me as however he wants now. Any time I weaken I can look at his girlfriend's FB page- that's what does it for me- seeing her seeing him as somebody to make her happy when he talks about her so disrespectfully. Double life, double standards.

I hate it.

Thanks for the kind words- I feel better already! 

[seeking balance]

But I can't take it any more. I've tried stating my needs in grown up language.

Maria,

You found these boards because you think he has BPD, he is not in treatment, you are not an active stayer with him - honestly, is it really surprising based on everything you have read here that he cannot meet your needs?

GOOD - you are angry!

Use that anger to fuel your own recovery.  Look in the mirror, I mean really look - let yourself feel uncomfortable, let yourself go through the process so that you can get to the other side and really understand and believe you deserved to be treated better. 

Again - give yourself the time to feel all that comes up; no more ex, no new relationship - just the time to recover because YOU are worth it.

I read this quote that struck me and might be applicable to you too, "transformation without work and pain, without suffering, without a sense of loss is just an illusion of true change."

Hang in here - glad you chose PI board on this one.

Peace,

SB

[maria1]

Thanks SB

I've been feeling the loss for 8 months now. The loss I feel isn't about him any more. It's loss for a childhood and its compounded by the loss of all my immediate family members. My mother and brother dead and my father dead in his own body, paralysed and unable to speak.

I survive for my children and I'm ok, just. But the pain is deep and its hard. It's so hard I can't breathe at times. New relationship didn't stop that pain- in some ways it helped it flow a little more as I talked to him and he listened.

I could have stayed in it if I wanted to hide away from myself. I don't. I'm here and I'm feeling it and its horrible. It's easier with BPDex gone. I feel line I was punishing myself with him around. Keeping up the pretence that I can never ever be good enough, just like when I was a child in my fathers eyes. Sometimes I can't do it all alone. I would give up altogether otherwise and I won't do that.

[seeking balance]

Thanks SB

I've been feeling the loss for 8 months now. The loss I feel isn't about him any more. It's loss for a childhood and its compounded by the loss of all my immediate family members. My mother and brother dead and my father dead in his own body, paralysed and unable to speak.

I survive for my children and I'm ok, just. But the pain is deep and its hard. It's so hard I can't breathe at times. New relationship didn't stop that pain- in some ways it helped it flow a little more as I talked to him and he listened.

I could have stayed in it if I wanted to hide away from myself. I don't. I'm here and I'm feeling it and its horrible. It's easier with BPDex gone. I feel line I was punishing myself with him around. Keeping up the pretence that I can never ever be good enough, just like when I was a child in my fathers eyes. Sometimes I can't do it all alone. I would give up altogether otherwise and I won't do that.

You have a lot to grieve Maria - and you will be ok ... .  sometimes it feels like we are alone and it is all too much - that feeling passes.

Now that the ex is gone totally - my guess is the flood gates will open and that is when the healing can begin.  You are good enough just the way you are - right here, right now.

,

SB

[maria1]

Thank you SB- you haven't got it quite right about my stuff with my BPDex- my floodgates opened weeks ago. It's a relief to have him gone. The burden of his suicide would have floored me. I don't believe he will kill himself any more. I know you think that was an excuse to have him in my life. It isn't and wasn't. The abandonment depression is and has been here all the way through. He left me when he ended the relationship and I have no illusions about that. If I have wanted him to meet my needs at times I have recognised they were shallow needs for company. I reached out to him rarely and I think last time I hoped he wouldn't come through because I know that he isn't capable.

I thought occasionally it would be easiest to go back into the r/s with him because he would soon see that it would all go to ~ again. Then he might see it for what it really was instead of idealising it. He had so much faith in the possibility of our relationship when I had none. That didn't meet either of our needs.

Contact til the end kept the truth of the impossibility of 'us' in my face and that has helped me see the disorder in true light.

I know my grief is no greater than anybody else on here- I just mean it has its own complications. What grieving doesn't?

He is the smallest part of all of this now. I need him gone because I hate who he is. He disgusts me. I saw that part if him when we first split and I see it clearly now.

[almost789]

Hi Maria, Sorry for the hard times with your ex! Ive been there too. Ive finally given up on trying or thinking i could have my needs met by pwBPD. Its too bad it too me so long to figure it out. I found myself constantly angry that he couldnt meet even the simplest standards. And it only got worse and worse as time went on.  He knew this even before I did. One of the things he would say to me when things were great.  Hed say. ' I always want to give u what you need' hed just say it randomly out of the blue. He repeatedly said this to me. I never understood  then what it meant. Now I do. It was his way of saying he knew there would come a time when he could not meet any of my needs. Its so heartbreaking.

[Blazing Star]

I survive for my children and I'm ok, just. But the pain is deep and its hard. It's so hard I can't breathe at times. New relationship didn't stop that pain- in some ways it helped it flow a little more as I talked to him and he listened.

I like this, this helping it flow. It sounds like you might benefit from more of this. Anger, channelled correctly can be Empowering and Transformative. Often anger needs to be released in a very physical way. Some ways that have helped me:

dancing in the dark, alone, to loud music

dancing in the day, with the kids around, making a game out of flinging my arms and legs around in ways that feel releasing

pillow punching

running (and I am Not a runner at all, but this really helps me)

swimming laps (again not a swimmer at all, so even if I just do 10mins it is good!)

pillow punching

driving my car somewhere secluded and screaming in it (good on a windy/rainy night)

What ways can you see yourself getting in touch with and releasing this healthy anger?

Love Blazing Star

[maria1]

Hi Blazing Star and SummerT321 and thank you. I'm angry a little at myself for getting sucked in again this last few weeks. What I was doing was working- I was keeping my distance and not contacting him, he was detaching.

I have been vulnerable since Christmas, feeling low physically and mentally. Feeling lonely and he has cleverly jumped into a little chink I opened by reaching out to him. If I hadn't done that he was actually going and fading out of my life. He was liking me less.

But I just wanted somebody to be there for me. And I asked that of him, once. Doing that destroyed everything I'd done in terms of his detachment! He has been unrelenting since- and before I know it we are his version of friends again! In his head anyway.

I feel positive actually because as soon as I stepped out of the fog I could see I'd tricked myself because I needed something. I knew full well he couldn't provide it really- it was as if I had to properly prove that to both of us.

The anger is good for me- I have been feeling very low, flat. Anger gives me some energy and motivation. I like to shout 'f*** off' at BPD ex and other stuff he won't hear. I wrote emails to him yesterday which I deleted. It feels good to get this stuff of my chest instead of playing calm cool and detached. I have been an intervention in his mental illness for too long. That's what was impossible. I wasn't really trying the true friendship thing. That only sneaked in with the fog this past week.

I am angry with other friends, angry with lots of people. I used to have a lot of anger inside me when I was younger- too much. Recently I've lost it altogether although I've still felt irritable and not been nice to my kids at times- that's no good and the anger is still in there.

I will concentrate on connecting with my feelings more and expressing them if I can.

Lifegoeson2- my ex said similar things. I believe he wanted to be my friend. I don't know how you did it because I never did. I was really more in controlled contact until I lost control which I did briefly once before too. Too hard.

[almost789]

I couldnt do it either Maria. Thats why were not currently together or friends. I kept wanting him to meet my need, and he cant. So, now im considering giving up any expectations from him in regards to my needs and just being there for him, providing support accepting whatever he CAN give and forgetting the rest. Not a relationship though. He will not be my primary support.

[maria1]

Lifegoeson2

That can work-

I couldnt do it either Maria. Thats why were not currently together or friends. I kept wanting him to meet my need, and he cant. So, now im considering giving up any expectations from him in regards to my needs and just being there for him, providing support accepting whatever he CAN give and forgetting the rest. Not a relationship though. He will not be my primary support.

But it's not easy. It was actually working for us, we were growing apart. But it's almost impossible because you have to think of yourself as an intervention. I trained as a psychiatric nurse so I could do that but emotionally it wasn't easy.

And I think you have to understand what the pay off is for you. There has to be one otherwise you are denying the codependency stuff. I had a concern that my ex would kill himself if I went NC again and, as much as I believe that it's an individual's own responsibility and I couldn't ultimately stop that, I did see a softer detachment might help.

My personal pay off was that the contact was easier for me than the absence of contact. The absence made me imagine all sorts of things that weren't necessarily real- I liked CC because it felt based in reality for both of us. I had a golden rule that I wouldn't initiate contact. It fell to pieces and all the work was undone when I broke that rule. Because it was about my needs.

If you are going to do it work out what you want from it for YOU. It's vital. Make a contract with yourself about what you will and won't do. We kid ourselves when we are low and vulnerable.

I'm sorry you are going through this loss.

[almost789]

The pay off for me is simply knowing Im helping him. Im not getting anything from it other than knowing he has someone who cares. I disagree this is about co dependancy. Co dependancy says ' whats the pay off for me? ' Im not doing it for me. Im doing it for him. Im not getting anything from him. He hates me right now.

[maria1]

The pay off for me is simply knowing Im helping him. Im not getting anything from it other than knowing he has someone who cares.

Codependency denies itself, just as BPD does. I believe this is all about codependency because codependency is a way of fulfilling our needs through meeting other peoples. I believe we on here are all recovering from codependent relationships.

When i first read about CD I didn't see it in me, a little maybe but not really. The profile doesn't fit. The CD stuff on this website doesn't help- I don't think it's very useful or helpful. But reading and learning more I saw more and more that I do not put my own needs first. Forget the codependency label. For me I had to start looking at why it is so impossible for me to put my own needs first.

[almost789]

Well, I just don't agree. I know its frequent that co dependants end up with narcissists and BPD's. I probably do have some traits, but I am not willing to give myself up for his needs. I dumped him. Were not together. I'm not in a relationship with him. I get my support from other people. I just don't believe that every person who is a friend of someone with BPD is a co- dependant. Thats just to black and white. Basically you seem to be saying that if I don't go NC I am a co- dependant. My friendship at this point is not much actually other than offering him help. I don't plan on getting emotionally connected or dependent on him like I was in the begining.

[maria1]

No- I'm not saying at all that if you don't go NC you are codependent. However we deal with the relationship and whether we stay in it or not we are still recovering from a codependent relationship. But it's just my opinion about BPD relationships generally. It's not a negative judgement about you. I don't think NC is for everybody and it wasn't for me. I've got to a pony with mine now where I see him differently. I can't say that will necessarily last.

The most uncomfortable thing for me to see is him treating other women badly. That realism helps me detach but that's my own unique story. We all have our own unique paths in this- I didn't mean to suggest that you were wrong in anything you are doing, just that the drive to subjugate our own needs can be so deep seated we do anything not to recognise it. That's partly what I did. It doesn't mean that's what you're doing.

[almost789]

Yes, but really there are grey areas here with the helping vs co dependancy

[maria1]

Codependency isn't black and white and there are many shades of it. I absolutely agree about the helping v the codependency. Like I said forget the CD- just think about the subjugation of your needs, that's the bit that damages us, codependent or not.

[Grey Kitty]

Maria, I was thinking about your anger. So many of us have really bad histories with anger. But there is something another way to think about it:

Anger is just a force. Like a fire. A fire can burn people and be hurtful. A fire can also be something that keeps you warm on a winter night, or a tool that a blacksmith can use to create something.

Anger is powerful. But it is neither good or evil in and of itself.

Feel your anger and listen to what it tells you. Every day people lost in their anger and hurt something or someone while lost. Every one of us here has been hurt by somebody else doing that.

But the anger itself isn't bad. It is a force you can use to very good ends. I think many people famous for reforming institutions or countries did just that using anger at injustice to provide the force necessary to change it.

Here is a smaller example... .  a friend of mine said that in her last years before menopause she finally figured out what to do with the irritable, btchy PMS feelings she had... .  she would watch for and wait for that time of month... .  and then she would take that angry energy and use it to propel herself into DEALING with some small thing that bothered her which she had been putting up with for too long.

You've got some fire inside you, anger about how you have been treated, what you have let be done to yourself. Use that force to push yourself in a healthy direction!

[myself]

Anger is just a force... .  Use that force to push yourself in a healthy direction!

I like this idea. It's so simple, really, yet hard for many of us to have come to.

Just as we can focus our positives, we can better focus the negatives.

Being 'positively negative'. Sounds good! Thanks Grey Kitty.

[gina louise]

maria1,

I feel your confusion and pain and frustration... .  and some anger in there. I don't think anyone can judge any persons reasons to contact or not contact their loved one or friend-disordered or not, diagnosed or not. we all have issues. we all have baggage. none of us is exempt.

what we all share is the fact that we really are alone in our heads. that's ALL we have to feel, and think our way through. from birth to death we ARE alone with our minds filtering every action, reaction, concept, feeling, personal interaction, and event.

it's all inside our heads.

so we have to use what's available to us IN there, to deal with what's OUT here, every step of the way.

Feelings equal facts for a pwBPD

Thoughts equal feelings for the rest of us.

We can all act and move and live with compassion. we don't have to stay NC or LC -we can still be NC or LC in our minds-that's what detached with Love really is, to me.

I'm kinda sleepy-I hope that makes sense.   

GL

[OTH]

It doesn't get better. Even being a bit distant doesn't get you off. The disorder can't be overlooked. They force you to deal with it if you want to be in their lives. Hard stuff. Sad.

[maria1]

Thank you all so much- I'm still thinking about the anger and where mine went. My BPDex used to sing "Anger is an energy" the John Lydon PIL song and it makes me laugh here because he used it as an excuse for his rages against his ex wife.

I work in complaints. Complaints about really difficult stuff- social care stuff. Complaints about abuse and death and I see and deal with anger every day. Quite often the anger becomes directed at me because I'm expected to fix it all. I'm the end of the line for the most terrible unresolved feelings.

And I used to get much angrier about the world, but I got fed up with my powerlessness. My job rights wrongs and actually gives me some power to do a little bit of justice for the underdog. I love that. It means I don't need to be so angry about that stuff any more.

I've always been angry about men abusing women, about anybody abusing anybody. My BPDex managed to turn his ex wife into the abuser. I'm angry with her for never telling me, why did she never tell me? I still don't know the truth but I saw her very clearly NPD at times and unable to cope when ex didn't play exactly by her rules.

I'm also angry with the father of my children quite often but can't express it. he is in a relationship with a woman who isn't kind to my children. He lives in cloud cuckoo land. It's hard to ba angry with someone who's only response to reality is anger. He can be absolutely horrible at times and controls me and his children through anger.

Anyway I have decided I need to start running. I have been a walker for too long. It may break me of course because right now I'm struggling walking to the bathroom but I'm liking the idea!

Thank you everybody for posting- you are all wonderful. I'm still re-reading stuff on here and thinking