therapy... but

[Our abuse recovery guide]

Thought: lack of insight hinders therapy?

My mom has BPD, and she was in therapy for a while when I was in college. I either developed the same, or learned from her, and I realized something a few years ago: I don't think she was honest in therapy.

I did a DBT program where my shrink called me out on my behavior. I kind of walked into my treatment like "I'm a hysterical jerk, with a string of ruined relationships, help me change." I left realizing in no uncertain terms that my tantrums and verbal hysteria were not acceptable and had to be replaced by better skills. I wasn't offended by the BPD diagnosis because I never heard of it before. I saw a work sheet and was like "Oh my god, this is my family. Yes. Thank you." I did my work. I am much more stable, and realized... .  I never learned those skills. They were brand new concepts to me.

I was actually kind of hurt, because I realized other kids probably learned these communication skills when they were 8, and not 28. In childhood I learned how not to do bad things (like kicking siblings), but I never learned how to do good things (like resolving a disagreement w/ calm discussion to reach a point of consensus). It seemed so obvious in worksheet form, I felt stupid. Like 2nd grade behavioral skills I was seeing for the first time as a post-graduate.

With my mother, I feel like she might have gone into her shrink with tales of persecution, and might have taken more of a grief counseling route? She has such poor insight into her behavior. She's mentioned things like "Therapy helped me heal from all the people who abandoned me" with no insight into why people leave her. And her behavior hasn't changed much. If you're so out of touch you don't ever confess to the therapist that you're hysterically out of control, they can't give you the tools to change. I wonder what version of her life the therapist heard?

I can't really suggest she get therapy, because she did. I just don't think she had the insight to use it correctly.

[XL]

Thought: lack of insight hinders therapy?

My mom has BPD, and she was in therapy for a while when I was in college. I either developed the same, or learned from her, and I realized something a few years ago: I don't think she was honest in therapy.

I did a DBT program where my shrink called me out on my behavior. I kind of walked into my treatment like "I'm a hysterical jerk, with a string of ruined relationships, help me change." I left realizing in no uncertain terms that my tantrums and verbal hysteria were not acceptable and had to be replaced by better skills. I wasn't offended by the BPD diagnosis because I never heard of it before. I saw a work sheet and was like "Oh my god, this is my family. Yes. Thank you." I did my work. I am much more stable, and realized... .  I never learned those skills. They were brand new concepts to me.

I was actually kind of hurt, because I realized other kids probably learned these communication skills when they were 8, and not 28. In childhood I learned how not to do bad things (like kicking siblings), but I never learned how to do good things (like resolving a disagreement w/ calm discussion to reach a point of consensus). It seemed so obvious in worksheet form, I felt stupid. Like 2nd grade behavioral skills I was seeing for the first time as a post-graduate.

With my mother, I feel like she might have gone into her shrink with tales of persecution, and might have taken more of a grief counseling route? She has such poor insight into her behavior. She's mentioned things like "Therapy helped me heal from all the people who abandoned me" with no insight into why people leave her. And her behavior hasn't changed much. If you're so out of touch you don't ever confess to the therapist that you're hysterically out of control, they can't give you the tools to change. I wonder what version of her life the therapist heard?

I can't really suggest she get therapy, because she did. I just don't think she had the insight to use it correctly.

[XL]

Just venting... .  

She also paints her trauma as "long suffering wife of Vietnam PTSD" sufferer.

I always felt weird about this growing up. She repeated that so many times, yet I failed over and over to see the evidence of it. My dad's a little passive & dark, but I only witnessed one meltdown growing up. She said he was an alcoholic, yet I've never seen him more than a little tipsy, and he's always been very on top of work. I'm not taking sides, but I've never witnessed any of the things she claims. He was a little cold, but never abused the kids or demeaned us in anyway. I was in the house for most of their fights, and 90% of them were instigated and escalated by her. I've also witnessed her yelling things like "Stop hurting me", to run upstairs and see him stationary on the other side of the room.

I think she tells everyone she was abused, not the other way around. And I honestly think she believes that. And I think she tells therapists that, and they believe her without digging for her role in it.

I realized it's really easy to blame military PTSD as the root of all family problems, and I'm angry she cashed in on that as a scape goat.

[Cordelia]

Yeah, my mom got therapy but never took responsibility for her behavior to me.  I also suspect that for her it was a way of reinforcing her victim/martyr complex, a dedicated space to complain about how everyone else is persecuting her, and see herself as too sick to make her life better.  Who knows, maybe that would actually be helpful for her to go through with the right therapist, maybe they would be able to nudge her from self-pity into genuine self-compassion that would motivate positive action in her life, but as far as I saw it didn't happen.  Therapy by itself isn't a miracle cure.  What is the joke... .  how many therapists does it take to change a light bulb?  Only one, but the light bulb has to want to change... .     

[GeekyGirl]

Hi XL,

With therapy, having insight helps, but it's also important to work with a therapist who can guide you towards really looking honestly and deeply within yourself. You also get out of it what you put into it. It sounds like you did put a lot of work into therapy, and perhaps your mother either wasn't ready to do that work or didn't stay in therapy long enough to really work through her issues.

I can imagine that it was hard for you to hear your mother say things about your father. Are you close to him?

It's good that you're learning healthy behaviors. How are things between you and your mother now that you've learned what you've learned in therapy (T)?

[XL]

Cordelia:"Yeah, my mom got therapy but never took responsibility for her behavior to me.  I also suspect that for her it was a way of reinforcing her victim/martyr complex, a dedicated space to complain about how everyone else is persecuting her, and see herself as too sick to make her life better."

---

Yes. Exactly. I'm glad you pointed that out. She very much has a "martyr" problem, and flaunted that the entire time she was in therapy. "I'm so beleaguered I need therapy" was more of her attitude.

I really felt growing up that I was in a brainwashing scenario. She repeated daily that the PTSD was the problem. It was a tool she used to absolve herself of any fault. It was so aggravating to have all other family problems dismissed and blamed on that.

In the past she's shut down all suggestions of family therapy because I think deep down she knows she can't spin what other people have to say.

[PaGuy]

Cordelia:"Yeah, my mom got therapy but never took responsibility for her behavior to me.  I also suspect that for her it was a way of reinforcing her victim/martyr complex, a dedicated space to complain about how everyone else is persecuting her, and see herself as too sick to make her life better."

---

Yes. Exactly. I'm glad you pointed that out. She very much has a "martyr" problem, and flaunted that the entire time she was in therapy. "I'm so beleaguered I need therapy" was more of her attitude.

I really felt growing up that I was in a brainwashing scenario. She repeated daily that the PTSD was the problem. It was a tool she used to absolve herself of any fault. It was so aggravating to have all other family problems dismissed and blamed on that.

In the past she's shut down all suggestions of family therapy because I think deep down she knows she can't spin what other people have to say.

This.  I know it can be pretty embarrassing to realize you don't know things most people learned when they were children.  I am currently going to school with some very well-adjusted people and I often feel socially behind.  I am working on polishing my social skills, but they have a long way to go.  It helps me to realize that I didn't have the same childhood most people did.  It isn't my fault for not being better socialized, but it is my responsibility to change now that I know it is needed.

My mother has also been in therapy for several sessions, but based on what she has said and her lack of change, I also question what she told the therapist.

I think pwBPD in a counseling setting are a challenge.  Because of the manipulations, it is possible a therapist will no see the signs of BPD for a while.  Even if they do present, it is possible the therapist does not have enough clinical experience/training with BPD to catch what is going on.  Add to the mix that therapy is a two-person thing and if the pwBPD doesn't want to work at changing, the therapist ends up being limited in what he/she can do: "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink".

[Clearmind]

XL, distorted reality is common for pwBPD - she will recall, recount or process events depending on her bias.

I think its important for us kids of Borderline parents to not bear the responsibility for their short-comings. I agree it has impacted us - it has also caused us to take a good hard look at the relationship skills provided/not provided by our parents.

Its wonderful you have insight XL - work with it - begin to praise yourself for your efforts.