Why is saving relationships so important to me?

[Grey Kitty]

This must be one of my values that I never even thought about. Perhaps because my parents are still married over 50 years now (even while stuck in some nasty dysfunctional patterns that are most likely older than I am) That and I never had a personal break-up, being too shy to even date before I met my wife.

I'm dealing with some very close friends who are in the process of splitting after six months of terrible fighting, which they are realizing is just a cranked up version of what has been going on for at least five years, likely ten or possibly their whole relationship.

I'm catching myself really wanting to shake them both and show them how they are doing messed up crap which is hurting each other, so they can just STOP it, heal a bit, and live happily ever after. I can see the problems in their patterns very clearly too. But the evidence is pretty clear--I cannot explain it to either of them in a way which they get and then change to stop hurting each other. I'm finally starting to think that I should stop trying to "help" in that way unless I'm asked, and even then be reluctant to meddle too much.

Heck... .  even here, I hang out mostly on the Staying board. When I spend some time on the welcome board I really don't want to steer anyone toward "Leaving." (I point out some hopeful ideas... .  and/or let others steer them that way)

So what is it with me that I just want to see everybody work things out and stay together?

[gina louise]

hi GK,

it's probably a holdover from your relations within your FOO-you probably felt more comfortable when everyone played nice and got along-even if it was only superficial. so it was in your best interest and worked for you to "help" others adapt into a play nice and get along role.

I do it too. A lot. SO I am in no way knocking your role.  I was the peace keeper and placator. Otherwise I'd have had multiple ulcers by age 11.

My FOO was hugely dysfunctional, but as a kid... .  it seemed normal. Yuck.

Some of it is just good will too. I hate to see people hurting, and hurting each other. I am really great at my job as a manager and supervisor. A lot of it is managing conflict. I excel at that! thanks Mom n Dad.

GL

[123Phoebe]

Hi Grey Kitty,

So what is it with me that I just want to see everybody work things out and stay together?

This sounds like the philosophy I used to have and it started out when I was very young.  I remember sitting at the kitchen table during a huge verbal battle between my parents and thinking to myself, if mom would just do this and look at it this way and dad would say that and then mom would have no choice but to do this other thing and then blah blah blah all kinds of thoughts swirling through my head.  Not one of those things actually happening because they were fighting their own internal demons, reacting and triggering all over each other.  

I had no control over it, but in my mind I did and that's where I found solace, in my own headspace.  Ugh, so much turmoil for a little girl to be trying to deal with and comprehend.  I think it's almost primal and a survival mechanism based on fear-- What will happen to me if they split up?  Even if that thought wasn't fully formed.

I caught myself reverting to this type of thinking while around some couples that I know.  Truly awful dynamics, including my own.  I had to step away from a longstanding friendship; I had witnessed this friend replaying her entire childhood with two husbands and me, too.  Her behaviors are engrained, entrenched and unhealthy.  She doesn't seem to think so.  The old me wanted to hang onto the friendship and also help her to see the error of her ways... .  just do this that and the other and everything will be fine.  Residual leftover poo-poo thinking from childhood.  What she does or how she treats her husband(s) is none of my business.  They have their own thing going on, with their own background noise leading the way... .    And even though we've known each other for most of our lives, I will survive without her in it.  I'm actually better off.  How she treats me is my business.

Some people are comfortable being miserable and there's not a darn thing I can do about it for them.  I can take care of myself though by not letting their issues infiltrate my headspace.  Not my problem!  

Ah, how freeing... .  

[Grey Kitty]

Gina Louise, I'm not going to lay a lot on FOO issues with me. I saw some ugly patterns at home. I didn't see a lot of good examples on how to relate to friends. But I didn't enough crap aimed at me, or get pulled into the ugly patterns enough to be badly messed up by it. (Or it was too subtle for me to notice, even to this day!)

Phoebe, I think you are hitting on the point I'm having trouble with here:

Wanting to support people in their relationships is a wonderful value to have. I am delighted to see this value in myself.

Wanting people to stop doing the messed up CRAP that they do which hurts themselves and others they love isn't the same thing, and isn't productive.

Meddling in their relationships, trying to push people to fix things (especially when they don't ask me for advice!) is downright MESSED UP!

Some people are comfortable being miserable and there's not a darn thing I can do about it for them.  I can take care of myself though by not letting their issues infiltrate my headspace.  Not my problem! 

This is EXACTLY what I need. I've done it before.

For example, another couple I know has a really troubled relationship. They've broken up and got back together a few times over more than a decade. He is verbally abusive and puts her down. Her role is to act like a doormat. When she doesn't want to do things with him 'cuz he's a PITA she usually lies about her schedule or activities so that he won't be there. It is just icky.

My choice is to avoid if at all possible time with the two of them together. I actually can enjoy his company, and enjoy hers a lot. But I don't try to stop their squabbles. I don't try to get her to leave him or stand up to him. I keep it out of my headspace.

This other relationship is harder to do that with. So now I've got a better idea what *I* can work on with it.

Ah, how freeing... .  

Indeed. I'm not sure I'm there yet... .  but I see the open door and feel the breeze coming in

[gina louise]

Grey Kitty,

I can only tell you how it was for me... .  

Here's what I did as a kid. When my parents fought, or gave each other the silent rages- and there was tension-I wanted it to STOP.

It threatened MY personal and emotional safety and security growing up and being wholly dependent on them- even though they both swore they'd NEVER divorce.

I wasn't saying they modeled GOOD relating patterns for me,(far from it) but I wanted/needed to have it FIXED (whatever was so wrong between them) SO I could relax, and stop feeling the tense currents in the house! So I became a "fixer" and a problem solver. It troubled me at some level if people were sniping, bickering or even seething silently. Still does, to some extent. But I tend more to leave things alone now-for others.

That's the thing, it IS subtle and below the surface. I never realized how deeply affected I was-I would have called myself a strong, composed, capable person-until I met my stbxBPDh.

GL

[Grey Kitty]

GL, when I was a kid, I *NEVER* saw my parents fight, or even really disagree.

I think their relationship has deteriorated a bit, especially since retirement, and now the pattern is that if my dad opens his mouth, my mom immediately invalidates him. He generally apologizes for whatever he said.

Now I've noticed that I enjoy my parents more when I'm with only one of them. But they tend to do a heck of a lot together, so I put up with it to be with them.

It is plenty messed up in its own way, but didn't leave scars on me, at least 

[gina louise]

 Grey Kitty

when I was a kid, I "NEVER" saw my parents fight, or even really disagree.

wow! Never?

is it safe to say maybe they repressed their real feelings towards each other? that anger or disagreement was not "allowed" somehow? that NICE people didn't fight or have "words"? Just some guesses.

In my FOO my parents rarely fought openly-but my dad made snide remarks to all of us. Barely concealed anger.

My mother just went silent, left the table, went to bed, watched TV, gave up.

In retirement they bickered incessantly about everything from what to eat to where to park the car. It drove me batty!

GL

[Changed4safety]

I stayed in a "comfortable" marriage with no sex for 15 years rather than "quit", even though one therapist said quite bluntly we should.  We were both too nice, and really liked each other, and that was enough for a long long time. (He was dealing with gender issues and realized he was transgendered.  I am very open-minded, but in the end, in bed I want to be with a guy, not a guy pretending to be a girl.)  Neither of us was "wrong" or "bad," but we really should have gotten out. 

We did open our marriage and in came my exBPDbf... .  I have him to thank for me finally divorcing, at least my exH is now remarried and happy.  I think I would still be with my exH and be going on 20 years in a "friendly" marriage. 

I couldn't leave my ex until it was clear to me that I would lose everything if I stayed--any hope of peace of mind, any money I had, any friends I still had, any shred of self-respect, and perhaps my life (there was choking on 3 occasions.)

I stay WAY too long with people and situations.  I don't want the boat, I don't want anyone to "dislike" me or challenge me.  I actually realized recently I carried a fear of being physically attacked/raped because I'm not sure I would be able to fight back enough to prevent it--I wouldn't want to hurt or offend my attacker.  Jeez. 

I know mine is from my FOO, and also I'm just a gentle person who likes harmony.  I'm an introvert with a few very close friends (I've moved away from them, sadly) and disharmony has always rattled me.  Now more than ever--I have difficulty watching TV shows where the couples argue, even if the marriage is solid and the "fighting" is fair. 

[Grey Kitty]

*Never* (At least 'till I was much older) Here are my guesses as to why:

1. They read something in Dr. Spock or another parenting book that fighting in front of your children was bad, so they chose not to do that.

2. By the time they had decided to have two children and no more (I was 2 years old) they settled their lives in on autopilot and didn't really have any big or difficult life decisions to make... .  so not having anything to fight about, they didn't much. (My upbringing was simply free of big disruptive events.)

3. If they did disagree, it was about how to raise/discipline me or my sister... .  and that one *would* have been stupid to do in front of me!

In my teen/early adult years my mom wanted to do fun/social things, but my dad wasn't interested. (His liked being outdoors and alone instead) My mom was irritated with him, but started actually DOING fun things that she liked without him. My sister, myself, and my wife often did them with her... .  lots of fun times. (With grumbling about my dad being unreasonable / a stick in the mud)

But after they settled into their retirement house, she pretty much stopped doing those things. I suspect she blames him for it, but that is messed up ... .  After retirement was when we noticed the constant criticism/invalidation that my mom dishes out to my dad.

[maria1]

Hi Grey Kitty

I can't help wondering if there is a bit of scarring from your FOO but it's pretty deeply buried maybe?

Some friends (ex friends now since I'm sticking to my boundaries and shedding people all over the place!) have just split up. I've known them since their and my youngest children were 7 months old. My daughter and their son are good friends.

They saw my relationship crumble with my children's father but always 'pretended' everything was lovely between them. It pissed me off a bit because I always got a feeling they hated each other and competed with each other! Then, a few years ago, they started attending marriage counseling and opening up a little about the serious problems they were having. Fast forward to now and they have finally told their kids and everyone else they are splitting up. Kids cannot believe it because they have NEVER seen them argue, EVER.

I don't think it's healthy to hold stuff in. When I got to a point of realising my partner didn't love me and loved alcohol more I got out. We tried MC, but I was the one doing all the work. I still could have stayed and made it work.

I realise I am on the other end of the spectrum to where you are in terms of working at it/ not working at it in relationships I do think but we try and fix everybody else first as codependent types (and I'm learning there are many different types).

I think there's also a human tendency to want everyone to be like us and to play out what we saw as children. Then we are 'normal'. I really don't like being 'unusual'.

[Grey Kitty]

I can't help wondering if there is a bit of scarring from your FOO but it's pretty deeply buried maybe?

I'm SURE there is some scarring. Many have been wounded far worse than I have... .  but using that as an excuse to ignore my own scars won't help me! I can only work on the scars when I stumble into them and start to feel them; This isn't an area where I've found any (yet).

FYI, I'm not saying my parents did the right thing or the best thing by not fighting in front of me while growing up. They did the best they could... .  and what they did taught me the lessons I learned. It sounds like your friends may have caused more problems the way they held stuff in.

I realise I am on the other end of the spectrum to where you are in terms of working at it/ not working at it in relationships I do think but we try and fix everybody else first as codependent types (and I'm learning there are many different types).

Bingo  That is exactly what I've figured about myself in this thread: It is codependent of me to try to "fix" people or their relationships. I can work at supporting them, but if I slip into wanting to fix them, it isn't good for me or for them.