I just don't understand...

[Foreverhopefull]

I've noticed something that is bugging me lately. Maybe I'm being to sensitive but here it is... .  

I feel that lately each time someone is saying that living with a pwBPD affects them in their daily life, they are told they shouldn't be affected by it, that they are codependent. Call me dependent, but I'm sorry, living with a pwBPD affects your life no matter how much you try not to.

When you live with someone who has an uncontrollable fear of being abandoned, it affects your life. It means that you must constantly remind your SO that you are leaving them for good if you go out for diner with friends.

When you live with someone who has feelings of emptiness and are easily bored with their life, it affects you. It means that you will never be able to fill up this emptiness and boredom, even if you try jumping through hoops on fire.

When you live with someone who has frequent displays of inappropriate anger, it affects you. It affects how you think. How many couples have an escape plan, that have exit strategies and actually keep them updated? Tell me this is not being affected by BPD. When you reconsider asking friends and families for diner parties, it affects you. Hearing the person that loves you tell you how much hate they have for you that very moment affects you.

When you live with someone who is impulsiveness with money, substance abuse, sexual relationships, binge eating, or shoplifting, it affects you. It can change your whole life when their action affects your job. Like them getting arrested affects your security clearance at work, which means you can't do your job.

When you live with someone who repeatedly crises and acts of self-injury, such as wrist cutting or overdosing, it affects you. Watching your SO other cut themselves or seeing them bang their head repeatedly on brick or cement walls affects you.

Living with someone who is BPD affects you. Just like seeing someone living with cancer or dying affects you. You change your ways and reactions to events and accept things that others tend to judge you about. Loving someone who is BPD changes you in many ways.

If I offend anyone, I'm sorry but it was really bugging me.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Somewhere]

A+

You are absolutely correct.

So to deal with all that, you either need a whole set of coping skills (as you very well listed), or get that crap out of your life.

Was shopping for T's for us, lately.  One told me -- No real point in Couples therapy.  This stuff is working for her.  But YOU (me) -- Maybe I can help you figure out why you would put up with this foolishness.

[arabella]

There is no way to live with another human being and have it not affect you. I think it's just a matter of what aspects of your life are affected and how you choose to deal with them. Would it be easier to live with someone who doesn't have BPD? Sure, unless they have some other disorder or some random issues that you just can't tolerate.

I'm going with the theory of minimizing the damage and maximizing the potential - as I would with any relationship. Obviously we're all affected, but HOW are we affected? Encouraged to improve ourselves? Sent spiralling into depression? Forced to grow a backbone? Turned into a fearful mess? All of those are possible, but at the end of the day WE choose how we are affected and what is, and isn't, worth it. It's not that you shouldn't be affected - it's that you should be conscious of it and know that your life is your choice. That's my take on it anyway!

[nothinleft]

foreverhopeful,

WOW, good subject, and I fully understand what you described- the similarities are amazing. There is much germane advise and knowledgable suggestions to be found on this board. There are also the complaints and descriptions of the horrors of living with BPD. Some of both these themes are given from sufferers who are either at a point of personal weakness or strength at the time they are corresponding. There are times though that the just buck up or be strong or the correct theraputic advice or anything of the kind, although well meaning, may not be appropriate at the time or is not what we need to hear at certain dark points of our individual journeys. Sometimes those who answer us, although well meaning, have not taken the time to read our other posts, thus not fully grasping where we are at. Others write of what has worked for them, and, as I said before some write from a perspective of weakness or power, depending on their successes or current circumstances. Since at times I share what you are now feeling, I just try to take what is then helpful for me and leave the rest, knowing it is well intended. Remember, there are some cavaliar or callous responces, people are people and that is the way it is, but this board is a life preserver for so many... .  nothinleft

[laelle]

Its all coping skills.  How to not let his emptiness consume you.  If your both caught up in it you both drown together.  You cant help him if your busy trying to save your own sanity or nursing your own emotional wounds. 

You have to stop making things worse before you can make them better.  Its hard and it takes alot of practice.

You teach him how to treat you.

My boyfriend is a great guy, but he use to be rude, venomous, viscous to me when he was raging.  Now, he knows that when he gets rude I have a set way that I respond.  He knows he will not get to act out or unleash his venom on me.  I will leave and go do something else.  It cant be done as a threat mind you, but as a... .  we are both getting emotional, lets take a break.  Because he knows there will be no one around to see his tantrum,  he has stopped throwing them.

Yes, of course he affects my life, but he soothes his own issues now, because I dont try to fix him.  I am free to take care of me and im a happier and healthier person. 

I am no longer the doormat that he has to test to see how much I love him, and then disrespect and loathe me at the same time for doing it.

You will try to fill that emptiness forever and the hole will still be there.  In the process you become empty too.

[tuli]

I cannot improve on what Laelle has said here.  This is really your answer. 

At the same time, I cannot deny a single thing that the OP stated here.  It is so serious, so life-changing, so awful and painful and huge. 

But what if you knew that all of your borderline's behaviors and pain was based on their fears around taking care of themself and fears around intimacy, but that as soon as you stopped going along with their fears and left them having to face their fears that they would learn to take care of themselves and would lose the fear and would stop the behaviors?

When I stopped allowing the negative behaviors, my husband started to take care of his own fears and pretty soon he told me that the terrible crippling emotional pain he had felt every day his whole life had gone away.  We thought that he would need many years of therapy, but as it turns out, it was his fear of not being able to take care of himself that was causing huge overblown emotional storms, and once he started to take care of himself, the pain went away.  He also learned he could have intimacy without pushing me away.  It was the fear of what would happened that made him misbehave, but when he actually had to do it, he found out it was okay. 

Our example is from a marriage to a borderline who was invalidated but not abused as a child.  But even with a very damaged borderline, we need to try to let them build the life skills they need by not going along with their demand for us to take care of the things they need to do for themselves.  It is a very difficult road to walk for both people. 

[briefcase]

Foreverhopefull,

I can see why this is confusing.  It took me a long time to understand this stuff.  It's really just a matter of what we choose to focus on and how we choose to look at things.  Let's face it, we've all been affected by our relationships.  That's what brought us all together here.  

It's important to understand that while these relationships do affect us, we don't have to be victims in these relationships.    

We have a healing platform here designed to help members re-take control of their lives (the "Lessons".  An important part of the Lessons is to focus on what we can control in these relationships, which is basically ourselves.  Our behavior.  Our perception.  What we choose to accept, or not, in our lives.          

Because these relationships really are hard, and do affect us, it would be easy to spend our time and energy focused on that--consoling and sharing stories with one another.  We might feel better doing that for a while, but by itself that really isn't a pathway to change.  

So, there is a strong current that runs through this board, flowing in the direction of focusing on and taking care of ourselves, keeping the focus on ourselves, and working through the Lessons. As you can see, lives change when we do this.   

[waverider]

My relationship would tick everyone of those points, and on the face of it would suggest it as hopeless and I must be delusional to think I could have any quality of life. I was so nearly done with it.

So whats happened? Whats changed?

Firstly I got rid of pointless conflict.

I learned to handle it and thus became less afraid of it.

I stopped trying to fix everything and be right.

I stopped covering up for my partner, and I stopped being ashamed or embarrassed by her. She has a problem, she's not alone.

Realized it was up to me to get my life back together.

Every interaction I have with her, I am part responsible for, I can choose to take part, or disengage

I accepted I am not stuck in this RS (as I once thought) I choose to be in it.

I am starting to get better control of my life, the constant resentment I once felt is now little more than periodic frustrations that blow over quickly

I learned how to respect people better and not make the normal assumptions I used to.

I became a better person, because I had to be. That is an achievement and I am proud of it, I am proud of me. I am not a loser.

I help others here, I once would have dismissed everyone as stupid to put up with it out of my own ignorance, now I know better. I am proud of the effort I put in here. It is all part of improving me for me.

It started off trying to improve me out of a need in order to cope with the RS, now the RS is improving as a side effect of improving me.

I now generally have more respect from my partner because I have the structure and stability she can hang off, rather than being unstable and a stress ball the same as she is. When she wants to kick a wall, she wants me to be a wall not a pliable jelly bean.

I feel better being a wall than a jelly bean

[wanttoknowmore]

Foreverhopeful, I agree totally that it DOES affect you when you live with pwBPD. Why do we still stay? I have been asking myself. In my case,beautiful memories, intense experiences and merging of two hearts and a fundamental goodness of the partner has enabled me to tolerate the spells of pain and frustration. Try to understand what keeps you in this r/s.

[laelle]

While I do completely understand what your going through.  I have been there.  It serves no purpose to keep questioning why you are still in the relationship. Its counterproductive, and I assume you are here to help make things better. You are staying in the relationship.  You chose the Staying board because you are staying.  This may not sit well with you but in my opinion a "poor me attitude" is a victim mentality, and it will keep you bitter. Sure we all visit that place, but you cant live there and make your relationship better.  It hurts, heck yeah, I know it hurts, but if you keep picking at the wounds it will never heal.  Learn the tools and use them.

You chose to stay in that relationship and you bear responsibility in part for it.

He or she does not control you.  You control you.  You control your emotions.  You control how you let him affect you.

[yeeter]

I will chime in to say that of course the relationship affects you.  True of any relationship.

The codependence part is just saying that there are things in our own behavior that have a negative effect on the interaction.  If we choose to, we can change our behavior and improve the relationship.

There are several testimonies to this, and I think its a critical part of the decision to stay.

This isnt however, going to fundamental change the other person and magically cure them - but as stated we dont have to be victims to it, and we dont have to give up complete control of our lives to it.

And most importantly - we dont HAVE to stay.  It is indeed, a choice.

But when many of us first land here, we are so buried in the turmoil that none of this is obvious.  So first step is to stop the conflict and give some space for the individual to regain some emotional health.

You do have to give up the concept that you derive satisfaction from filling another persons needs.  Or 'fixing' everything for them (especially the emotional parts).  It cant be done.  So this needs to be let go of as a criteria.  Again its a choice on whether this is a critical piece of a satisfying relationship to you.

You DO need to protect yourself, and your own well being (from attack, emotional blackmail, FOG, etc etc etc).

You DO need to accept that this person has a disorder.  YOU arent going to 'fix' them or make it all better.  And then sort through the good pieces vs the bad.

I think grounding yourself very clearly on just why you do choose to stay, is a very healthy exercise.  Each situation is unique.

[yeeter]

While I do completely understand what your going through.  I have been there.  It serves no purpose to keep questioning why you are still in the relationship. Its counterproductive, and I assume you are here to help make things better. You are staying in the relationship.  You chose the Staying board because you are staying.  This may not sit well with you but in my opinion a "poor me attitude" is a victim mentality, and it will keep you bitter. Sure we all visit that place, but you cant live there and make your relationship better.  It hurts, heck yeah, I know it hurts, but if you keep picking at the wounds it will never heal.  Learn the tools and use them.

You chose to stay in that relationship and you bear responsibility in part for it.

He or she does not control you.  You control you.  You control your emotions.  You control how you let him affect you.

Laelle gives some great advice - even if it does sound a little contradictory to what I just wrote.

To clarify my thoughts:  If you get blindsided by something you didnt know about (like a BPD partner), then sure you get to claim being a VICTIM.

BUT.  If you stay stuck in this mode... .  .woe poor pitiful me... .  indefinitely, you have transitioned from being a VICTIM, to that of a MARTYR.  A very different mode, where you are basically sacrificing yourself for some other reasons.  Not healthy.  Not productive.  You DO have a choice, and if you choose not to exercise this choice and take responsibility and ownership for your choices then you will slip to martyrdom.  And at one point I was called out on this and was at risk of losing from really close friends that were just fed up with me being stuck in the mud.

But at the same time... .  the underlying reasons why you made that choice, and CHOSE to stay, imo, are very valuable to understand to ground yourself.  Personally I think its a very important and critical question.  Why stay?  Fact is, there are reasons!  (some good, some not so good).  At first it might be practical to just COMMIT to a decision and live it.  But eventually I believe you have to understand your underlying motivations so when all the crap is going on, you have those understandings to ground you.

[laelle]

What Yeeter said.  If you decide to stay, time is better spent making things better than re opening wounds that will never make sense.

There is never a rational excuse for what they do.  Its just plain wrong and hurtful.

There cant be sunshine if you refuse to come out from under the storm cloud.

[elemental]

Probably it is a process that people who stay go through. Feeling a victim or martyr, processing, maybe seeming stuck, then moving beyond it or leaving the relationship.

I don't post very much right now because I am processing a lot of things.

And it's hard to hear some things on this site about being stuck or whatever when it's more a matter of learning and processing than it is a matter of being stupid or wallowing in feeling victimized. Some days are just hard and everyone is entitled to feel tired.

[waverider]

Probably it is a process that people who stay go through. Feeling a victim or martyr, processing, maybe seeming stuck, then moving beyond it or leaving the relationship.

I don't post very much right now because I am processing a lot of things.

And it's hard to hear some things on this site about being stuck or whatever when it's more a matter of learning and processing than it is a matter of being stupid or wallowing in feeling victimized. Some days are just hard and everyone is entitled to feel tired.

It is a slow process, and it is very hard to see past that part of it that we are in at any moment. Hindsight is often a little too easy, it would have been hard to even accept our own advice when we are going through those hard patches of simply processing what is happening in the now.

Took me at least 12 months of constantly applying what I was learning from being completely lost to at least having a real sense of optimism.

Understand completely also the need to take a break from talking about it, otherwise you hit too many raw nerves to often and it becomes counter productive.