Detachment being tested

[turtle]

So... .  my brother - we'll call him "B," has been a very negative influence in my lifetime.

Our father died when I was 4 and B was 11.  B was saddled with watching me because my Mom had to go to work to support our little family (my father had no life insurance.)  I'm sure being saddled with me was horrible for B. Not only did he lose his dad (his idol,) but what 11 year old boy wants a 4 year old tag along?

Anyway, B was horrible to me when I was child. While Mom was out working her butt off to provide for us, B was at home with me being physically, emotionally and verbally abusive.  My Mom had no idea this was going on. Yet every once in awhile he'd do something very caring.  Mixed messages from him everywhere.  I don't blame him for this.  He was 11 -- a child -- dealing with very heavy things.  I was the convienient recipient for his anger, sorrow, frustration, confusion, etc.  And of course, as I grew up, I had my OWN anger, sorrow, frustration, confusion, etc. 

Now that we are adults, this dynamic between us has changed, but not for the better.  B hasn't been physically or verbally abusive to me for many, many years (I would never tolerate that.) He simply ingores me. I don't feel that he's mad at me, or doesn't like me or anything like that.  It's almost worse.  I just feel invisible to him.  Like I don't even exist and I certainly don't matter.  Yet, when we are together (maybe 1 or 2 times a year,) we laugh, talk about business, life, etc.  It feels like we are friends, but I know better, so I never get too enthralled with that.

The relationship with him is not really okay with me, but I've tried to address it many times and have been met with apathy, so that's that.  This is not really the relationship I want with him, but he's allowed to choose what he wants in his life and clearly... .  I'm not a part of that.

Yet... .  when his wife (whom I like) calls me, she often mentions how he's always asking her how I'm doing.  Whatever.  I don't believe that this is true and even if it was... .  B is a grown man... .  if he wants to know how I am, he can ask me himself.

So... .  about 5 years ago, I realized that I was STILL chasing a relationship with him, desperate for his approval and acknowledgment. I was STILL waiting around for him to throw me a bone, and... .  as always... .  that bone never came. I would go through times where I'd work myself into a complete dither about it. It was very negative and unhealthy for ME.  So... .  I detached.  It didn't happen overnight, but I knew it was what I needed to do.  It worked wonders.  I changed my expections from "little" to "NONE."   I left him alone to ignore me and he didn't even notice that I was ignoring him too.  It felt weird at first, but it really did work wonders for me. I truly believed that I had reached a place of indifference and detachment and I was at peace with that.

When his wife would tell me tales of him caring about me, I would just listen and discard.  If a person cares about you, they don't send a mouth piece to tell you... .  THEY tell you. So... .  I learned to let these comments go and remained ":)ETACHED!"

Okay... .  fast forward to 4 weeks ago.  My Mom took a bad fall.  BAD!  She was in the ICU for a few days, the hospital for a few days and then to a brain injury rehab center for two weeks.  She is home now and doing better, but things are going to be different for her -- forever.

During this 4 week period (which, incidentally feels like a YEAR,) my brother has called her ONE time -- and that was 9 days after the accident.  9 days?  Really?  This seems heartless to me.  Every day, when I get her mail, she gets another "get well" card.  At this point, I'd guess she's received over 100 cards.  Is there ONE from him?  No.  Is there ONE from any of his children (my Mom's grandchildren?) NO!  Is there ONE from any of the great grandchildren?  Of course not.  Have ANY of them called her?  NO.  She gets one lame phone call, 9 days after she cracks her head wide open.  I'm so angered by this that I cannot see straight.

I have been with her every day. It's A LOT, but I wouldn't have it any other way. I help her with every detail of daily life and he (and his ungrateful children) can't even pick up the effing phone. 

When this was all new and she was still in the ICU, things were dire.  The doctors were telling me that "decisions" would have to be made.  I called him to give him an update.  Of course, my sister-in-law was the one who answered the phone (she is his mouthpiece.)  She said "oh, I'm so glad you called.  "B" has called me twice today wondering if I'd heard from you. It's his mother too, you know."  I was livid.  I inappropriately said "OMG... .  I didn't realize B's fingers had been amputated and that he can no longer dial the phone to call me himself."  Not my finest moment.

I feel that if he wants to ignore ME, that's fine, but to ignore my Mom (who has been nothing but wonderful to him and his ungrateful offspring) after such a terrible accident, that will alter her life forever, is just plain sh!tty.

So... .  all of my detachment?  Out the window. 

I've failed the detachment test.  Damm!t.

turtle

[DreamGirl]

I'm picking up on that you're pissed. 

I'm like you, I'm pretty protective of my mama.

I also think it has something to do with how we "allow" others to treat us in comparison to how we "allow" others to treat those dearest to us.

It's natural and instinctive.

I don't see you as failing - just being "triggered". Your expectations are different for your brother when it comes to your mama.

He seems to treat her the same as he treats you though. It sounds like he blocks his immediate family out (perhaps too painful?).

That's really too bad for him.  :'(

[turtle]

I'm picking up on that you're pissed. 

You're so perceptive. .

I don't see you as failing - just being "triggered". Your expectations are different for your brother when it comes to your mama.

He seems to treat her the same as he treats you though. It sounds like he blocks his immediate family out (perhaps too painful?).

That's really too bad for him.  :'(

Yes... .  my expectations are very different when it comes to my Mom.

And too bad for him?  Um... .  right now I don't care about what's too bad for him.  .

Thanks for saying that I haven't failed.  It sure feels like a failure to me!

[DreamGirl]

Some people cope in different ways. I'm not excusing his behavior by any means, but he seems to cope by "not dealing with it". He sends his wife - or perhaps his wife takes it upon herself - to deal with what is to difficult for him to deal with (for whatever reason).

Maybe he blames his mom for making him the parent. Maybe he blames you for being born (I think that's what my own brother did). Maybe he blames God.

I don't know. I also completely understand not being very empathetic to him right now.  

I also know that detachment involving relationships within our FOO are hard to navigate. It's just so natural for us to want to love them, to want them to love us back.

So I just suggest that you go easy on yourself in these moments that you are emotionally "reacting".

Take a time out.

Go to lunch with an old friend.  

[Grey Kitty]

  Well that is a sucky situation if I've heard of one today. Sorry to hear about it.

First thought: ANGER. It is a feeling. You will have it for a while. It isn't good. It isn't bad. It does provide energy to do things. The important thing is to use some love and wisdom to choose what you do when you feel anger.

She said "oh, I'm so glad you called.  "B" has called me twice today wondering if I'd heard from you. It's his mother too, you know."  I was livid.  I inappropriately said "OMG... .  I didn't realize B's fingers had been amputated and that he can no longer dial the phone to call me himself."  Not my finest moment.

The energy in your anger could have been put to better use than that one... .  but you already knew that Plus your circumstances made it understandable, and it likely didn't change much for the worse in the long run.

Second thought: Your relationship with "B" and your sister-in-law has more to it than you are seeing.

The relationship with him is not really okay with me, but I've tried to address it many times and have been met with apathy, so that's that.  This is not really the relationship I want with him, but he's allowed to choose what he wants in his life and clearly... .  I'm not a part of that.

Yet... .  when his wife (whom I like) calls me, she often mentions how he's always asking her how I'm doing.  Whatever.  I don't believe that this is true and even if it was... .  B is a grown man... .  if he wants to know how I am, he can ask me himself.

When his wife would tell me tales of him caring about me, I would just listen and discard.  If a person cares about you, they don't send a mouth piece to tell you... .  THEY tell you. So... .  I learned to let these comments go and remained ":)ETACHED!"

So... .  all of my detachment?  Out the window.

Q1: If you have a proxy-relationship with "B" through sister-in-law, are you really detached?

Example: In these boards, successful detachment from an ex-partner might include breaking contact with mutual friends or at least setting ground rules with mutual friends that you don't hear about your ex. And absolutely NOT stalking them on FB or asking mutual friends what they are up to!

Q2: You say you "like your sister-in-law." Is there more to your relationship with her than a way of passing news to/from "B"?

Q3: Talking to "B" through your sister-in-law just sounds messed-up and dysfunctional. Would you be happier if you set a boundary to stop from doing this?

Q4: You detached from him (at least partially). Did you do it with love or with anger?

[seeking balance]

I think Yoda has you pretty well taken care of 

Just wanted to wish you well - nothing easy about this situation and the family dynamics... .  underlying issues do tend to show themselves at the most stressful times.

Hang in there Turtle,

SB

[turtle]

Q1: If you have a proxy-relationship with "B" through sister-in-law, are you really detached?

Hmm... .  That's a great question.  I would have thought, prior to this incident, that I really WAS detached.  I would talk with her about many things other than B.  Of course, he would come up in conversation, but I really thought I'd put that aside.  I've known my sister-in-law for most of my life.  I know many of her struggles and oftentimes can't decide if I think she's an idiot or a saint for putting up with B.  I've wanted to believe that I haven't detached from HER because I like HER.

I had two major knee surgeries and she came here to stay with me for a few days after both surgeries. B never called me to see how I was doing, but I never expected that.  Sister-in-law and I get along great.  We always have. We laughed.  We talked about many things.  I was comfortable with her here.

When she was here for the 1st knee surgery, we were watching a movie together and something came up about margaritas.  She said "oh... .  B would love that."  She said "you should text B and say we wish he could join us for margaritas!"  So... .  I did.  I told him we were watching said movie and thought it would be great if he could join us for margs.  Within seconds he texted HER... .  not me... .  even though I was the one who initiated the text.  I never heard a word from him during either surgery, but because sister-in-law came to stay with me, I guess he felt he'd done his part.

Q2: You say you "like your sister-in-law." Is there more to your relationship with her than a way of passing news to/from "B"?

Yes... .  there is absolutely more to my relationship with her than this.  However... .  it is a fact that she does pass information to him and... .  we have not spoken since my snotty comment about B's fingers being amputated.  I have no clue if she's pissed at me, or if she's finally just said to B... .  "this is YOUR family... .  YOU call them."  That's what I would say.  Who knows?

Either way... .  neither of them have checked to see what the status of my Mom's condition is.

Q3: Talking to "B" through your sister-in-law just sounds messed-up and dysfunctional. Would you be happier if you set a boundary to stop from doing this?

Well... .  I did stop doing this.  When the discussions about mom's release from the brain rehab center started happening, I called to give an update. Of course, I got sister-in-law and proceeded to tell her the update.  I'm sure she didn't mean to flat out interrupt me, but she did and went right into prayer meeting mode.  This stuff is HARD and I wanted some support for all that I've been dealing with here.  I didn't get that.  Instead, I got a sermon.  I told SIL that I was up for the prayer vigil, but asked her if she'd like to hear anyhing about Mom's status. She told me that the details weren't that important because God knows all about it and that she was just going to pray everything would be fine. This irked me and it was evident that I was irked!  I was polite, but I let her know that I didn't appreciate this.  I haven't heard from SIL since.

A few days later, Mom's doctors were telling me that they didn't think Mom should go home to live alone.  Hmm... .  that's a BIG deal.  No provisions were in place for this. I mean really... .  was I going to move in with her?  Was I going to have to find a facility for her?  Was I going to have to hire in home nursing for her?  I didn't know what to do!  So I texted B and said "we need to have a conversation about what the living arrangements need to be for OUR mother. Can we please set up a time to talk about this?" Within minutes, he called.  All I could think was... .  "geez... .  see? Was it so hard for you to dial my number and actually speak to ME?"  Once we started talking, it was not forced or difficult.  He seemed to really listen and he offered some possible solutions.  So again, I just thought... .  "is it really this hard?"

Q4: You detached from him (at least partially). Did you do it with love or with anger?

Also a good question.  I'm trying to remember how I felt about that 5 years ago.  I remember that the decision to detach was as a result of another dead end conversation with SIL -- where I wanted HIM to talk to me, not HER. Again, I felt completely invisible, but I don't remember being angry.  I just remember sitting in my car, after that conversation, and looking in the review mirror at myself and saying "turtle... .  this is not good for you.  It's never been good for you, it never WILL be good for you, and it's time to let it go."

Hmm Grey Kitty --- you've made me think... .  that's good.

turtle

[Grey Kitty]

So I texted B and said "we need to have a conversation about what the living arrangements need to be for OUR mother. Can we please set up a time to talk about this?" Within minutes, he called.  All I could think was... .  "geez... .  see? Was it so hard for you to dial my number and actually speak to ME?"  Once we started talking, it was not forced or difficult.  He seemed to really listen and he offered some possible solutions.  So again, I just thought... .  "is it really this hard?"

I remember that the decision to detach was as a result of another dead end conversation with SIL -- where I wanted HIM to talk to me, not HER. Again, I felt completely invisible

Hmmm... .  it sounds like you are working through more feelings on this, and possibly more specific wants or desires in your (separate) relationships with "B" and his wife. I'm looking for a pithy Q5 to give you... .  and failing. I think I gotta ramble a little.

It sounds like you wish you could have a more intimate relationship with B, including some chances to work together through old wounds. I suspect you tried to do this and it was unsatisfactory. Likely it is beyond his capabilities. (He doesn't sound like BPD, but you wouldn't expect this of a BPD for example. You did say he has his own issues.)

You do have pleasant and reasonable conversations with him when you see him or talk to him. I believe you value this and would like to do it more.

He avoids contact with you and hides behind his wife instead of doing this most of the time. This sounds like an old wound of yours. Both B and his wife behave in a way that keeps scraping this scab off and making you say "ouch!"

However... .  it is a fact that she does pass information to him and... .  we have not spoken since my snotty comment about B's fingers being amputated.  I have no clue if she's pissed at me, or if she's finally just said to B... .  "this is YOUR family... .  YOU call them."  That's what I would say.  Who knows?

Well, you did make a point of saying that you didn't like the current game. None too gently.

You have effectively left it where if either of them contacts you, they have to decide whether to apologize, attack, or pretend nothing ever happened. That might be part of the delay in getting back to you.

Perhaps it is time to offer an olive branch and then ask nicely for what you really want... .  once you figure it out.

Q4: You detached from him (at least partially). Did you do it with love or with anger?

Also a good question.  I'm trying to remember how I felt about that 5 years ago.

Let me improve that question: Do you feel like you are now detached with love or with anger?

Hmm Grey Kitty --- you've made me think... .  that's good.

You are very welcome. 

[turtle]

I'm looking for a pithy Q5 to give you... .  and failing. I think I gotta ramble a little.

"Pithy" is one of my very favorite words 

It sounds like you wish you could have a more intimate relationship with B, including some chances to work together through old wounds. I suspect you tried to do this and it was unsatisfactory. Likely it is beyond his capabilities. (He doesn't sound like BPD, but you wouldn't expect this of a BPD for example. You did say he has his own issues.)

You are right on the money.  I HAVE tried to do this and it was definitely unsatisfactory.  Maybe it IS beyond his capabilities, but really... .  it feels more like he just doesn't give a sh!t.  How would I know?  I don't really know ANYTHING about him -- never have. He's definitely NOT BPD.  I KNOW what that is -- at least what my experience has taught me that it is. 

The last time SIL was here, she shared something with me about him.  Something he did that was just awful -- something that happened more than 35 years ago. When she shared that, I thought "why are you telling me this NOW, 35+ years after the fact?" I'm not sure what the point of that was. Sometimes, I think she's more comfortable if he and I don't communicate because it makes her role as mouth piece more secure.  And... .  I get that... .  sort of.  They were married when they were VERY young and he was not kind to her for the majority of their marriage. She knows what it's like to be treated as invisible and not worth his time. So... .  I think she likes having a role that makes her feel he needs her-odd as it is.  Over the last 7-8 years, she has bragged about how much he's changed.  Could have fooled me!

You do have pleasant and reasonable conversations with him when you see him or talk to him. I believe you value this and would like to do it more.

I would.  I'm not going to beg for it though. I did that long ago and I'll never do it again.  I've tried to initiate these conversations over the years, and it goes nowhere.  When they visit, they stay at my house, so he's sort of forced to notice that I'm around -- after all I AM in my own home -- kind of hard to escape from me here.  When they stay here, we seem to have a good time. Conversation flows and there is little discomfort. I find him to be quite pleasant. Then they leave and once again, I no longer exist.

He avoids contact with you and hides behind his wife instead of doing this most of the time. This sounds like an old wound of yours. Both B and his wife behave in a way that keeps scraping this scab off and making you say "ouch!"

This is true and is exactly what I'm mulling over.  I really thought I had detached.  Yet, his complete disinterest in this situation with my Mom has shown me that I'm not nearly as detached as I thought. Detachment to me means that I'm not tied to the outcome of any given situation.  Clearly, I am tied to the outcome of how B is treating (or not treating) my Mom. And... .  I'm still tied to the outcome of how he treats ME.  I'm seeing that ignoring him (like he ignores me,) isn't detachment at all!

Well, you did make a point of saying that you didn't like the current game. None too gently.

You have effectively left it where if either of them contacts you, they have to decide whether to apologize, attack, or pretend nothing ever happened. That might be part of the delay in getting back to you.

Perhaps it is time to offer an olive branch and then ask nicely for what you really want... .  once you figure it out.

Yes... .  none too gently is right!  Bad behavior on my part!  I don't expect my brother to get back to me. I never expect that. But I do plan to contact the mouth piece. And I WILL extend an olive branch to her.

Let me improve that question: Do you feel like you are now detached with love or with anger?

Are those my only two options?   

[Grey Kitty]

Maybe it IS beyond his capabilities, but really... .  it feels more like he just doesn't give a sh!t.

Can't or won't... .  same result for you either way, I'm sorry to say.

Let me improve that question: Do you feel like you are now detached with love or with anger?

Are those my only two options?   

I thought I was being nice when I didn't explicitly state the option of being co-dependently enmeshed in the situation 

Err... .  back to being nice. Consider it an open question... .  fill in the blank as you wish

[turtle]

I thought I was being nice when I didn't explicitly state the option of being co-dependently enmeshed in the situation 

Err... .  back to being nice. Consider it an open question... .  fill in the blank as you wish

LOL!  You WERE being nice... .  I just didn't want that to be the answer and once you started asking the right questions, I knew this was where it was going! 

And of course... .  I "detached" (not really detached at all) with anger, and was mad not so much because B is absent, but because I realized I was STILL tied to his approval. I AM codependently enmeshed with the situation. Sigh.  I've been at this for a long time, so to realize that my idea of "detachment," was not really "detachment" at all doesn't feel good.

Personal Inventory... .  I hate it when you know you need it, but don't want to do it!

Thank you for reading and commenting, Grey Kitty. This was very helpful to me.

The hardest part for me in dealing with my Mom's current situation (which has been overwhelming) is that I am doing it alone, yet feel I shouldn't be. I have a sibling. If I was an only child, I wouldn't be irritated by trying to deal with the enormity of my Mom's current situation by myself. I would just do it.  So, I need to accept the fact that I am in this alone and proceed accordingly.  That sucks.  However... .  this realization DOES help me to prepare for the day that she dies.  Clearly, I will be alone in that too.  Better to accept that now!

turtle

[maria1]

Turtle

Sorry about your mum- this stuff is hard, even harder when you're doing it all alone 

I'm not trying to be very wise here because you have some very wise advice in this thread already but here's my take-

I am a human - you are a human. You can do all the detaching you want but sometimes people are incredibly disappointing and it's going to hurt. When it does there's nothing wrong in a bit of reacting.

Your brother has let you and your mother down. Your sister in law can't accept that so she's employing some magical thinking to make it all OK for her.

I'm loving the amputated fingers comment- they both deserved it. Give yourself a break and feel the anger, it's absolutely justified. I say good for you and bad for them.

[turtle]

Thank you Maria1. 

I appreciate all that you said and yes... .  I'm pissed and I should be.  My brother's behavior is just plain sh!tty  However... .  this isn't NEW information.  This his how he has ALWAYS been, so what point is there in getting all tight around the eyelids about it?

I feel like I just took 10 HUGE steps backwards.  I am very quick witted.  I know this... .  and my quick wittedness has served me well throughout my lifetime.  However... .  in a situation like this, my quick wittedness was inappropriate and says way more about ME than my brother and SIL.  The fact that I can come up with such a snotty retort without any thought at all is not good. Blech.

turtle

[maria1]

In times of extreme stress we react, it's fair enough.

I believe too much control is not good and it's healthy for us to let the real stuff out. It may have always been that way with your brother but it's big stuff when your mother is poorly and he lets her down big time.

I think you are asking too much of yourself to be so in control that you don't react how you did. But I have Italian/Scottish blood and we say it how it is.

[DreamGirl]

  The fact that I can come up with such a snotty retort without any thought at all is not good.

Why do you say this?

[turtle]

I think you are asking too much of yourself to be so in control that you don't react how you did. But I have Italian/Scottish blood and we say it how it is.

Perhaps you are right about too much control.  All I know is now things are tense.  Before I made that crappy comment, things were as weird as they've always been, but I'm used to that. I've dealt with that my entire life. I don't need this tension on top of all that I'm dealing with regarding my Mom. My plate is MORE than full and I just added a big spoonful of sh!t to my already overflowing plate.

And... .  people who say how it is are my favorite kind of people!    I prefer not to have to guess what people are thinking.  If you just tell me (doesn't matter if it's good or bad) ... .  I'm good to go!

turtle

[turtle]

 The fact that I can come up with such a snotty retort without any thought at all is not good.

Why do you say this?

I say it because I don't think being able to be snide without thought is necessarily a good quality.  Even WITH thought, snide and snarky remarks get us nowhere.  They only create more division and strife.

If I had reacted differently, it probably wouldn't have changed a thing, but I would have felt better about it.  If I had said... .  "oh, SIL, I'm glad to hear that B is concerned. Please tell him to call me so that you don't have to be the middle man."

This would have at least given her the opportunity to put this back in his lap... .  where it belongs. And she could have maintained a little dignity too.  She could have said "B... .  you need to call turtle to find out about your Mom."  Granted, the fact that she has to tell him this is ridiculous, but still... .  the way I did it left her feeling as though she had to defend him and she hung up the phone thinking "damn, turtle was sure nasty to me."  And I'm sure she ran right to B and told him how snotty I was.

If I had done it with more grace and decorum, B would have been the one looking like the jerk because he won't take care of his own responsibilities.  Instead, I am now the one that looks like the jerk ... .  and to a degree... .  that shoe fits.

And in the end... .  NOTHING is better for my Mom.  It might not have been better for her anyway, but I could have done better to at least create that possibility.

turtle

[maria1]

So... .  instead of being the one making the situation better for your SIL and your mom and your brother, instead of fixing it all with the absolutely perfect solution, you let rip with an emotional reaction.

I say that's human and normal and everybody slips up every now and again, even Turtle 

[turtle]

So... .  instead of being the one making the situation better for your SIL and your mom and your brother, instead of fixing it all with the absolutely perfect solution, you let rip with an emotional reaction.

I say that's human and normal and everybody slips up every now and again, even Turtle 

Thank you Maria!

I take this as my own truth today!

[turtle]

I don't want this to sound horrible, but it might.

I certainly don't want my Mom to die.  It will be a terrible thing for me when she does!

However... .  When this happens, and the dust of wills, estates, property and all of that settles, I will no longer know B.

I'm am more than okay with that.

[Grey Kitty]

However... .  When this happens, and the dust of wills, estates, property and all of that settles, I will no longer know B.

I'm am more than okay with that.

Really? Honestly?

I think I get what you are saying... .  I'll believe that your mom's will/etc. will favor you over him. I'll believe that he will react badly to this. I can see a likely scenario where you go NC with him after it.

Still... .  if you end up NC with him... .  you've got more work to do if you want to stop renting space in your head to him.

P.S. FYI, I think being quick-witted enough to come up with the amputated fingers comment is really cool. There are times I wish I had that capacity. And I agree that choosing to actually say it out loud does make things worse all around 99% of the time.

And more importantly, the fact that you let that one slip is telling you that SOMETHING important is going on for you that you need to work on.

Geez... .  I feel like the oracle of ~-you-don't-want-to-admit-but-mostly-already know for you in this thread.

[turtle]

However... .  When this happens, and the dust of wills, estates, property and all of that settles, I will no longer know B.

I'm am more than okay with that.

Really? Honestly?

Yes. Really. Honestly.  I'm not even saying that not knowing him anymore will be a calculated decision. There will be no arguments, heated discussions, or any real discussions at all.  He will just disappear like he always does. He's always ignored me and I'm used to that.  I know nothing about him except that he shares my DNA.  I don't know what he likes, dislikes, does with his free time, what he thinks, believes or anything else.  My Mom is the only glue between us.  So, after she's gone, why would I know him anymore?  I don't know him NOW! 

I think I get what you are saying... .  I'll believe that your mom's will/etc. will favor you over him. I'll believe that he will react badly to this. I can see a likely scenario where you go NC with him after it.

My Mom's will won't favor me over him. My mother is very careful to treat us exactly the same when it comes to money. I am the Executrix of her Estate and I've seen the will.  Everything is divided equally.   And really... .  I don't think he will react to any of it -- positively or negatively.  He just won't react at all, that's his MO.  And again, I won't make a decision to go NC... .  I think it will just happen naturally... .  and it won't be hard to do.  It's really no different than it is now... .  except that now, we have things that come up from time to time surrounding our mother that make me feel he should be involved - you know -- stuff like her almost dying.

This last experience has really proven that he doesn't need/want to be involved at all.  So... .  it's up to me and I will act accordingly.  I will be there for my mom because I want to. And... .  when the time comes, I will carry out the instructions of her will exactly as she has laid them out.  Not because I agree, but because I respect her and I want to honor HER wishes.

Still... .  if you end up NC with him... .  you've got more work to do if you want to stop renting space in your head to him.

This is very true.  However... .  as he fades away from me and I fade away from him... .  I think the head space will become clearer too.  The reason he's taken up so much space in my head right now is because of the current, and very serious, issues with my Mom. Once the Mom situation calms down (which it already is starting to calm down a bit,) I'll probably go right back to not really giving him much thought.  Then, when the next issue with Mom arises, I'll be posting here!  .

I asked her if it ever bothers her that she rarely hears from B.  She said "I've just accepted it."  I didn't come right out and say... .  so while you were in the hospital for two weeks, looking at some serious, serious life changes, did it bother you that you hadn't heard from your son, your first-born, golden child?  See?  Self restraint.  .

Then I said, "does it bother you that you haven't heard anything from the grandchildren or great grandchildren?  Once again... .  she said "I've just accepted it." 

So, while she didn't really answer my questions, she did tell me that she's reached a place of acceptance with it.  So... .  if it doesn't concern HER, I shouldn't be taking it on either.  I believe that in my head... .  but in my heart, I'm still pissed.  We are talking about NINE people here that she is very committed to and has treated very generously from the day they were born.  She never misses a birthday, anniversary, Christmas, etc.  While she was in the ICU, she made sure I was writing checks and cards to some of these ingrates.  So, while she's in ICU, she STILL remembers them and not one of them ever says "thank you," nor has she heard from ANY of them during this time. And, I am unaware that ANY of them have had their fingers amputated!  I do believe this hurts her feelings, but it is clearly something she's decided to just accept, while continuing to give them gifts!  I realize that there is no value in me being incensed on her behalf, yet I'm incensed anyway.  I just don't get how these people can be so unappreciative and ungrateful to her.

P.S. FYI, I think being quick-witted enough to come up with the amputated fingers comment is really cool. There are times I wish I had that capacity. And I agree that choosing to actually say it out loud does make things worse all around 99% of the time.

Well... .  being quick-witted is often a good thing, but when it comes to situations like this, I have to watch myself!  Fortunately, I don't say 99% of the snarky quick-witted comments that pop into my head!  THAT comment, just flew out without warning, and I was sitting there shaking my head at myself because I KNEW I'd just made things worse. 

And more importantly, the fact that you let that one slip is telling you that SOMETHING important is going on for you that you need to work on.

I agree with this 100%.  If I take my brother out of the equation and just focus on what I'm feeling, what this brings up for me is my core wound.  INVISIBILITY.  When I feel invisible, I use bad judgment. I never make good decisions when I'm feeling invisible.  Feeling invisible is what got me hooked up with a pwBPD! Oy-vey!

Geez... .  I feel like the oracle of ~-you-don't-want-to-admit-but-mostly-already know for you in this thread.

LOL!  Well, I appreciate it.  Sometimes, the most obvious things are the things we don't see and I appreciate you taking the time to point out the ~-I-don't-want-to-admit-but-mostly-already know!  So... .  thank you!

turtle