good point, telling vs. asking

[crazymade]

yeeter brought up a good point, telling vs. asking. How does everyone else handle it? I understand where he is coming from. If you tell your BPD SO, it from my experience it leads to asking, and usually they assume control if you do  not have the skills to do so, which can lead to arguments. In my experience, if you begin 'telling' that can lead to extinction bursts, which are exhausting. how does everyone handle it?

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[Tigerabbit]

This is something I'm just trying to learn and figure out myself. I'm in a VERY rough patch with my dBPDbf, I don't know that we're going to make it through this one, but I'm fighting my hardest to save it. We are currently trying a break from each other so that we can work on our own respective problems, and I have yet to set firm boundaries with the kind of treatment I'm willing to tolerate (I'm getting better at it, slowly). If we do indeed resuming regular contact/communication and get over this huge mountain, that it when I will feel I'm ready to have that conversation with him and let him know that I will remove myself from the conversation if he becomes abusive. I've done this before, but with inconsistent success. My fear of his extinction bursts has really frozen me and caused me to tolerate abuse I shouldn't have.

I have also realized that my indecisive/unsure nature has made him feel very insecure and unsafe, and he has assumed control as you pointed out, and yes... .  we have argued. A LOT. I'm really realizing now how much I need to get my head straight so that I can be the leader (which, ironically, is something he has actually verbalized that he wants me to do! He always expresses his appreciation when I do make decisions for us. I think it alleviates the pressure from him feeling like it's always on him).

I'm also very interested in hearing about how others deal with these bursts (which I think are the most intense I've ever seen his symptoms... .  it's very frightening, actually).

[Chosen]

For me, telling vs. asking only results in the change in H's perception of something, not his decision on whether I should do it. 

Asking him means I have to allow him to say no, but I do find that sometimes he feels better about himself in this way and he says yes more often. 

He doesn't understand that telling him is not asking him for permission.  He just gets angry that I don't respect him. 

So basically for me, asking is a better option because it kind of validates his feeling of importance. 

[Tigerabbit]

Yeah, I understand what you're saying completely, Chosen. I think it's also something that, for me anyway, is sort of situational. Some things are more appropriate to ask, some to tell, and I think it's even possible to combine the two, for example: "I'm going to hit_, and I feel like hit_ about it. How do you feel about it?"

What do you think about that? I see it could be a valid approach, but has potential risks to it as well.

[DreamerGirl]

I've found asking is the best way.  Even if I know, I still ask and let him think he has the power to make the decision, and it works everytime, for me.

[Chosen]

OR- if it's something you're pretty much going to do anyway (which you can't let him know, because the more desperate you are the more he will NOT give you), you can ask, "I'm thinking of doing x, what do you think?", or "I really want to do x, can I?" 

You know, a bit like a child who wants sweets and you ask the parent nicely.  Then the parent may say yes or may say "not now but you can have it after dinner".  But if you just take it without asking then the parent's defense mechanism is up and they'll just say "put it down right away.  Nobody said you can have sweets."

Sure we have to put down our own pride and our thinking that we are independent human beings (we are, of course).  In order to achieve our aims sometimes we have to choose to relinquish those rights.  Doesn't make us anything less than we are, in my opinion.

[Tigerabbit]

OR- if it's something you're pretty much going to do anyway (which you can't let him know, because the more desperate you are the more he will NOT give you), you can ask, "I'm thinking of doing x, what do you think?", or "I really want to do x, can I?" 

You know, a bit like a child who wants sweets and you ask the parent nicely.  Then the parent may say yes or may say "not now but you can have it after dinner".  But if you just take it without asking then the parent's defense mechanism is up and they'll just say "put it down right away.  Nobody said you can have sweets."

Sure we have to put down our own pride and our thinking that we are independent human beings (we are, of course).  In order to achieve our aims sometimes we have to choose to relinquish those rights.  Doesn't make us anything less than we are, in my opinion.

This is something I struggle with internally. I'm not really comfortable with blatantly asking "can I?" in most situations. It feels unsafe for me to relinquish that much control to him due to the "give an inch he'll take a mile" concept. I'm not comfortable with him thinking that it's ok to expect me to ask permission for anything he deems necessary. So, of the first two options you mentioned, I'd go with the "what do you think?" one. That way, if he expresses that he in fact isn't ok with me doing such and such, I can still choose whether or not I'm going to, with the added bonus of him feeling validated and cared about if I opt to do what he wishes. And then he also knows, conversely (hopefully) that he is also allowed to do things even if it's not what I would prefer him to do. It all seems like sort of a balancing act, doesn't it?

So... .  maybe this is an issue with my pride, as you mentioned? I don't know... .  for me it feels like an issue of safety and security, and of maintaining our "separateness". I have a definite need to be in control of certain aspects of my life. Perhaps that's something I need to work on!

[Chosen]

Tigerabbit,

I think we all crave security and I do believe the "give an inch he'll take a mile" concept works only for people without BPD.  pwBPDs don't necessarily play fair games, as you know, and no matter you give the inch or not he will just take the mile- because he feels like it at that moment. 

That way, if he expresses that he in fact isn't ok with me doing such and such, I can still choose whether or not I'm going to, with the added bonus of him feeling validated and cared about if I opt to do what he wishes. And then he also knows, conversely (hopefully) that he is also allowed to do things even if it's not what I would prefer him to do. It all seems like sort of a balancing act, doesn't it?

I don't know about your situation but for me it doesn't work that way.  As you can see in my posts, my H has double standards for himself and me.  Say if he doesn't do x even though he wants to, he will claim it's because of me (to spend more time with me, etc, even though I actually encoruaged him to go and do something he wants).  He won't think "my wife allows me that freedom to do whatever I want, it's great."  Everything is about his sacrifice.

[Tigerabbit]

Tigerabbit,

I think we all crave security and I do believe the "give an inch he'll take a mile" concept works only for people without BPD.  pwBPDs don't necessarily play fair games, as you know, and no matter you give the inch or not he will just take the mile- because he feels like it at that moment. 

That way, if he expresses that he in fact isn't ok with me doing such and such, I can still choose whether or not I'm going to, with the added bonus of him feeling validated and cared about if I opt to do what he wishes. And then he also knows, conversely (hopefully) that he is also allowed to do things even if it's not what I would prefer him to do. It all seems like sort of a balancing act, doesn't it?

I don't know about your situation but for me it doesn't work that way.  As you can see in my posts, my H has double standards for himself and me.  Say if he doesn't do x even though he wants to, he will claim it's because of me (to spend more time with me, etc, even though I actually encoruaged him to go and do something he wants).  He won't think "my wife allows me that freedom to do whatever I want, it's great."  Everything is about his sacrifice.

That is true, that they will take a mile regardless of whether or not you gave them an inch, and no they don't play fair by any means! I guess my resistance is really just fear based in that he will just keep thinking he can do it more and more if I cave that way.

As far as the double standards... .  I've definitely experienced that. At times, everything wrong in the relationship is my fault, or even if it's not, it all started with me (reminiscent of children... .  "she started it!" ). And the sacrifice thing? Oh boy, does that resonate. He is always rubbing in my face how much he has given up for me and how he has wasted his life and his potential on me, and how could I ever question whether or not he loves me when he has put up with me for so long, etc. etc. etc. And while yes, I see the truth in much of what he says, but it's not an excuse for his actions nor a reason to blame EVERYTHING on me. Quite frustrating. He has made progress with it though, especially lately, and I can see that it rips him up to confront and take responsibility for the things he has done (which of course is partially why he has projected so much on me so that he doesn't have to feel that). Anyway... .  I feel like I'm rambling now. Basically... .  I realize that maybe I need to take a closer look at how I approach these types of situations.

[DyingLove]

I just make "SUGGESTIONS"  They almost NEVER cause an outburst (but I don't always remember to word it that way... .  and you know how it goes after that. Forget about telling... .  then I become the CONTROLLING ONE and the worse thing that ever happened in her life.  Oh brother... .  just thinking about it... .