First Post - Lack of boundaries with other woman / painting me black

[connect]

Hello everyone,

I have been reading your posts for a few weeks and they have helped me a lot - thanks :-)

My story is complicated and would love some advise from people who have more experience in this area.

My uBPDbf and I have been seeing each other for over a year - we had left our previous r/s's to be together (his casual, mine failing). He has always been very challenging to be in a relationship with - I feel as though I am on a rollarcoaster. He is wonderful, sensitive, caring, generous, warm, solvent, funny,  handsome and sexy. To be in his headlights was a wonderful feeling and swept me off my feet. He is very different to the kind of quieter men I am used to seeing as he is a real mans man I suppose, He is alo a big extrovert where I have been used to being the extrovert in previous r/s's.

The problem I have is that he can make me feel as though I am the crazy one dispite the fact that he is uBPD and on ant-depressants. He pulls me in close to him for a few weeks at a time and tells me how happy, relaxed and contented he is and then starts pushing me away. The last two days have seen me crying uncontrollably, missing work and feeling totally crazy.

The reason for this is his tendancy to triangulate with other women but one girl in particular (his ex f buddy/friend) He loves to play the victim role and have all these other women helping him. His ex f buddy/friend - is still in love with him and tries to seduce him by plying the friendship card (their children have playdates etc)  and then tries (unsuccessfully) to seduce him etc. He has gone to her for advice about me (!) (I explained it will never be impartial advice) and she has poisened his mind against me to get me off the scene (this worked once and she did it to his previous g/f) Every now and then he realises that she is doing this and his friends and I tell him he must cut her out of his life. He knows the pain it causes me - I have been very clear on this. He will stop seeing her on these kiddy playdates for a while and then go back to them and sure enough I start to get painted black again.

I have not issued an ultimatum yet but it is not far off... .  He had arranged a holiday for them all and the kids during a time when she had got me off the scene and he now seems to think it is still acceptable for him to still go or for me to go with them. I have never met this woman and I dislike her intensly from her behavoir and his when he spends time with her. He asked me what to do about this situation but I became very angry and was instantly painted black and labelled as controlling and jealous. He really thinks I am the one with the problem.

He has poor boundaries with women and he tells them all everything about his life and feelings and is emotionally very intimate with them - its no wonder they all fall for the 'caring sensitive' guy! There is always someone in the background just slightly getting the wrong idea... .  

I need advice on setting boundaries without triggering his 'you're controlling me' issues. I have spoken to him about these things and we seem to get somewhere and then he acts as though the converstation never happened. He thinks that women he has been in r/s's with are drama queens but doesn't see that he is the common denominator in them all.

I do love him although I am starting to doubt my own sanity when this sort of thing happens after such a nice time together. I seem to accept behavoirs from him that I have never stood for before and I feel a bit of a doormat for doing it.

Any boundary advice grate fully received!

Thank you :-)

 

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[almost789]

Hi Connect,

I'm sorry you are dealing with this! I was painted black too after confronting my pwBPD about other women. Maybe I was too harsh, because his other women were just online cyber flirting but still it bothered me so much. Mostly because it took time away from me! Mine was similar to yours in that he denied it all the way, said I was the ONLY one. Then when I confronted him, he called me Jealous and paranoid and controlling. At the same time denying it. What I found was the closer we became the more time we finally had to spend together, he completely went haywire with this. And then of course as I became more and more upset, he then shifted the blame on me as jealous and controlling. If this is his form of acting out, I am not aware that any boundary you set will stop him from cheating. I wish I could be of more help but my boundary did stop it, it just got me painted black, like you are now. Typically, BPD's don't change their behavior due to your boundary. You have to change yours. You have to decide how important it is to you. Can you live with it? Or do you have to let him go?

[4now]

Hello,

First I have to say how disappointed I am that some more seasoned contributors haven't responded because I want to read what they say, too!

Have you read about triangulation?  This seems to be a classic example.  My uBPDh has (in the past) had a nice triangle going with me, himself and a woman he works with.  That is, until I realized what was going on.  Then I basically took myself out of the equation.  I don't want to hear about her, don't want to know about anything to do with her, etc.  This is not something I have said to him, of course.  It is a mind set.  One where I try to not let her have any power in my own head.  I don't get mad, get jealous, etc if he happens to say something about her.  I also am not negative about her to him.  I figured out it was better that way because sooner or later the tides would change and she would be the one in his good graces.  If I stay out of it, he has to deal with things and can't blame me (in his own head) because I will be blameless. 

I would caution you to believe that without her, things would be great.  He is part of the problem, maybe more than her.  You can't really blame her for his part of their relationship. 

So to the boundaries... .  You hit the nail on the head when you said you accept behaviors from him that you wouldn't or haven't from anyone else. Why is that, do you think? I believe people with BPD are master manipulators, whether it is on purpose or not, and will push you and push you until you just have had enough.

You have probably heard that boundaries are about your behavior, and what you will and will not accept, not about controlling someone else.  This was really, really hard for me to understand at first.  Then I realized that I really couldn't control him and any attempt to try and tell him what to do would be seen as controlling, even if it's a reasonable expectation. My advice is to take yourself out of the triangle and see what difference that makes.  If he sees you just don't care if he talks to or is friends with this woman, will his behavior change?  If you are ready and can't live with the situation as it is, you can always tell him this is a deal breaker. I would say figure out your boundaries, inform him of them, and be ready to enforce them and deal with some fall-out.

Take care and good luck!

[connect]

Hi Connect,

I'm sorry you are dealing with this! I was painted black too after confronting my pwBPD about other women. Maybe I was too harsh, because his other women were just online cyber flirting but still it bothered me so much. Mostly because it took time away from me! Mine was similar to yours in that he denied it all the way, said I was the ONLY one. Then when I confronted him, he called me Jealous and paranoid and controlling. At the same time denying it. What I found was the closer we became the more time we finally had to spend together, he completely went haywire with this. And then of course as I became more and more upset, he then shifted the blame on me as jealous and controlling. If this is his form of acting out, I am not aware that any boundary you set will stop him from cheating. I wish I could be of more help but my boundary did stop it, it just got me painted black, like you are now. Typically, BPD's don't change their behavior due to your boundary. You have to change yours. You have to decide how important it is to you. Can you live with it? Or do you have to let him go?

Hi Lifegoeson2!

Thanks so much for your reply :-) It makes me realise that I am not alone in this. I can relate to everything you said especially about how when you became closer to him he seemed to act out more. Mine often talks about how he thinks about the methods I will use to end the relationship, when all I am thinking about is our future.

I must admit I have considered (and said to him- childish I know) that the only way he will know how I feel is that I see one of my male friends each week in the same way and for the same time he sees his female friend and see how comfortable he is with that. He would hate it and was even visiably uncomfortable with me saying it! I fear though he would just use this as an excuse to continue. He says he does it for the kids but I know for a fact about her motives (he has told me in the past!) - he agrees with me but will continue to meet her. It would trigger abandonment issues though... .  Has anyone elese tried this I wonder? Did you ever go online and talk to men to see his response? I know this is wrong wrong wrong but my mind does go there as I get so angry... .  

As for the boundaries... .  well... .  I have always been off in past relationships at any HINT of interest in another woman! My boundaries are being stretched so much with him that I hardly recognise myself and of course it doesn't help when they sit you down and tell you that you have to address "the green eyed monster" and "controlling" issues that you have. With him I don't believe he would sleep with someone else but my trust issues are around the facts that:

They believe they are in with a chance as he is so open with them (this must come from him)

He will tell them my faults rather than my good points when he is in victim mode

He says he understands my views, agrees with me but goes back to it

He is too open with them - I feel that there should be a part of him that is reserved just for me but the openness seems to encompase other people/women even if they do nothing to earn his trust

He seems to think that if he is not "doing anything" with them (like your one did I imagine as it was online) then he is not at fault. Its the emotional openness with them/her that is also a trust issue for me.

The good bits are so good though that I don't want to leave - I almost feel obsessed and consumed by him!

[connect]

Hello,

First I have to say how disappointed I am that some more seasoned contributors haven't responded because I want to read what they say, too!

Have you read about triangulation?  This seems to be a classic example.  My uBPDh has (in the past) had a nice triangle going with me, himself and a woman he works with.  That is, until I realized what was going on.  Then I basically took myself out of the equation.  I don't want to hear about her, don't want to know about anything to do with her, etc.  This is not something I have said to him, of course.  It is a mind set.  One where I try to not let her have any power in my own head.  I don't get mad, get jealous, etc if he happens to say something about her.  I also am not negative about her to him.  I figured out it was better that way because sooner or later the tides would change and she would be the one in his good graces.  If I stay out of it, he has to deal with things and can't blame me (in his own head) because I will be blameless. 

I would caution you to believe that without her, things would be great.  He is part of the problem, maybe more than her.  You can't really blame her for his part of their relationship. 

So to the boundaries... .  You hit the nail on the head when you said you accept behaviors from him that you wouldn't or haven't from anyone else. Why is that, do you think? I believe people with BPD are master manipulators, whether it is on purpose or not, and will push you and push you until you just have had enough.

You have probably heard that boundaries are about your behavior, and what you will and will not accept, not about controlling someone else.  This was really, really hard for me to understand at first.  Then I realized that I really couldn't control him and any attempt to try and tell him what to do would be seen as controlling, even if it's a reasonable expectation. My advice is to take yourself out of the triangle and see what difference that makes.  If he sees you just don't care if he talks to or is friends with this woman, will his behavior change?  If you are ready and can't live with the situation as it is, you can always tell him this is a deal breaker. I would say figure out your boundaries, inform him of them, and be ready to enforce them and deal with some fall-out.

Take care and good luck!

Hello there!

Thanks for your advice and taking the time to answer - it is so helpful to me in my current frame of mind!

What you say about your husbands female work friend does make a lot of sense. I can see how it would work as he has to deal with the consequences on his own. I am just so unused to dealing with boyfriends who can't seem to get what I am saying longterm. How did you manage to change your mindset in this way? I worry that if I keep silent I am giving him permission to act in this way and may feel walked on - I can see that the mindset change has to come to avoid feeling like this. I am a very laid back person in relationships and let a lot of stuff go but my weak spot has always been other women circling my man - this drives me mad! Why do I take it?

That brings me to your next point about me accepting it when I wouldn't normally. You are dead right about the manipulation - I do feel manipulated in this area and the funny thing is that he says I manipulate HIM! He is very high functioning and I am starting to see when it happens. When we had the huge row about the holiday (involving him asking me to leave the house which I did) he said the next day that as I hadn't helped him with what to do in the situation (ie how to tell her he couldnt go) he had had to make the decision "on his own" (yep like a grown up you mean !) I am yet to find out what this decision was as he wouldnt tell me so I assume he is planning on going through with it. I have not called him on this yet as the row happened before him going away for the weekend and I couldnt (for my own sanity) have him go away on an argument. So we kind of made up (faked somewhat on my side) and he explained that I was too jealous and had to work on it. In actual fact I "made up" so I would feel better when he was away and with the plan to research, think and decide my strategy for a talk with him on his return. There is no way this holiday is going to slide! That is a definate boundary for me. I feel as though I am being tested.

So how have things worked out for you with you taking yourself out of the triangle? Have you seen positive results from it? I think this could be worth a shot for the weekly meetings but not for the holiday.

It's bizarre that when they paint you black they seem to not recall any of the love or good points you have. ie for the last week and a half I have been staying with him, cooking, looking after him, his house and his child, having amazing sex, meeting his friends and socialising with his mother!

The lack of consistancy is crucifying me - when he is like this he can't seem to maintain any kind of consistant action and goes aginst things we have discussed. We actually talk for hours about this type of thing and our relationship and he LOVES talking and relating to me in this way to progress our relationship but then it seems to disappear from his head... .  

[elemental]

I had this in spades in the last year. Just with one girl, online, who already has an online boyfriend and is married to someone else.

My BPD guy ... it nearly drove me to completely insane, as anyone here could tell you. 

What I found is that he will not respect any attempt from me to give ultimatums, ask for boundries being enforced. He walked through every boundry I made ( for HIM haha),  crossed every line I drew, openly broke agreements, etc.

The only thing that had an effect that I have ever seen is walking away, coming back briefly to check if he is going to keep doing it, and when he does, walk off again.

My situation, it's all become a matter of just how badly he wants me there with him. I had to get tough with myself, detach for real from letting his actions drag me down. I can't be afraid and let him see it, or he will use the fear to force me to accept things I shouldn't be accepting.

So what are you going to accept? So many people here say that you have to be willing to lose the relationship in order to sometimes be able to save it.

I am willing to lose this relationship. Because if I am not willing to lose the relationship, then I will certainly lose myself. That is an even scarier place to be.

[almost789]

Hi Connect,

Wow lots here to think about. Yes I did try to turn the tables on him. I didn't actually do it, but I did say, how would you like it if I was doing that. No response. But, again. He wasn't doing anything! According to him. Now, I am almost certain it was more than just flirting. I believe it was cybersex, chatting and porn. I knew he had a problem with this shortly after we got together, but you know, its porn, I overlooked it. I didn't like it, but I thought we could work it out. Funny thing is he never wanted to include me in this cybersex stuff, it's like I was not part of THAT. I was special. He told me so... .  ... .  However, when he moved closer to me, both him and I assuming we would be spending all sorts of time together. His words, not mine. Then he started this crap and went completely haywire with it. I reacted very explosively. I had waited for him for MONTHS to get over here and then he started this crap and I didn't know a thing about BPD at the time. I was furious. Right before Christmas too. So I broke up with him, he split me. We recycled, over and over again... .  I could have overlooked the porn thing now knowing he has BPD. But, not when he is CONSUMED by it to the point where he can't even see me. So, he has lots of issues BPD and online sex addiction. Lots of issues... .  

I totally agree with Elemental. I am willing to give up because I started losing me and I can't lose me for him. I can't change me for him. That is a scary place to be and I don't ever want to get there.

[almost789]

Connect,

I dont think you should try to give him a taste of his own medicine. I understand the temptation, but I think that would just make it worse. Trigger him more, cause more splitting. I agree you should read up on triangulation on here and how to deal with it that way if you want to stay. Its difficult though, what youre experiencing is fairly common in BPD.

[Themis]

Hi Connect,

I'd have to say this is in a different category to a man that is cheating; and needs a slightly different approach.

From what I intriprited from your story, you have a beautiful, charismatic BPD man (just-like--me) they are almost addictive. I am also putting up with soo much more than any other man, and I want him soo badly. No denying it, I still want him despite his cruelty and episodes where I feel like "why would I want a person like that"

Memories of old times and the hope I can undo the "painting black" I think is what keeps me going. I want to try at least once more with the professional tools from this website.

Failing that--then I'll have to accept he is gone.

I think he has genuine needs, and unlike an attention-seeking cheater that goes off with a new girlfriend or friend for his big-fat-ego... .  he genuinely feels lonely or some need to talk to this woman.

Now this is hard, as most people involved with a pwBPD male seem like really giving, loving women, with a lot of patience and the ability to be exactly what he needs.

From what I've read they both cling and have something called "engulfment" so they also fear the vulnerability of relying on one person for all their needs.

So maybe in an attempt to feel less needy or weak he is spreading his needs over 2 women, with this supplimental friend of his. I'm new here- so I don't fully understand this concept myself, but I know of it.

The point is YOU are his focus and love interest. I don't think he wants to date or have sex with these women, so you can relax to a certain extent!

I think the woman is a real piece of work! Friends my butt... .  I used to have a jealous male friend like her!

It took me a while, but I finally twigged to the fact that he liked me, and any advice he gave on the relationship just made it worse! People like that woman are not true friends. You are right that her advice will be biased and poison to your relationship.

He needs to know that a true friend wouldn't try to split up his relationship or speak badly about you. A true frind wants you to be happy! (

This is an important factor that led me to dumping my sneaky friend. Give your BPDbf the benefit of the doubt that he doesn't truly get how sneaky these types are. They do play the "friendship card" well. The guy doing this to me came across as a true friend. I didn't spot the fact he just wanted to sleep with me and ruin my relationship for a long time.

And I'm a non! When I figured it out, I knew he was a bad friend. Once your bf figures out that she is not a real friend there will be a good chance he will lose interest in her, and her "comfort".

[connect]

Hello everyone

Thank you so much for your help - you are all so kind here - its shows how caring partners of BPD people really are :-)

I am just off to see a relationship councillor so will write some proper replies when I get back. You have given me so much to think about. I feel like this weekend while he is away I am out of the drama enough to think about how I handle things instead of just blindly reacting. He has made no contact with me since he left yesterday (I have not contacted him either) but I am distracted from that thought by the work I am doing sorting my own headspace out ready for a talk on his return. If it weren't for this board then I dread to think how I would be feeling now - honestly I couldn't see how to get through this weekend (stag do in a typical lads holiday venue abroad) even if he'd left in a good space let alone how the last two days have been! It feels wrong though that he has the problem yet I am doing all the work while he is off enjoying himself without a thought of me in his mind (judging from the lack of texts anyway... .  )

Thanks guys :-)

[connect]

Hello everyone,

Elemental - I am sorry you had to deal with the online nonsense - another example of how not physically doing anything seems to be their classic get out clause... interesting that he has no respect for ultimatums as I suspect mine will be the same as have seen degrees of that coming through - he is pretty good at issueing them himself though. I think it may be because they know they can almost turn off their feelings  so even if we go another woman will be along to fill the gap. This is what keeps me in fear (as you described so well - it really resonated with me) I have a feeling (and a little experience of it with him) that if I dissapear for a week NC then he will shrug, get drunk and be better in a few days. This is due to the fact that he seems to have trouble remembering the good things (when we fight) about me when we are IN the realtionship so OUT of it I imagine those things will be even harder for him to remember. Other boyfriends regret, get sad, try to win you back, change etc in that circumstance. So yes "out of sight out of mind" is a big fear about him in that regard and keeps me hanging in after a problem.

Lifegoeson2 - Thanks for your advice - yes the unfairness of waiting for months for him and then see him not take care of it is devistating. They seem so scared of the closeness even though they want it so much. I am similar in that I left a long term r/s and left my home for him and he seems to change nothing about his life. I have just kind of slotted in to his.  Yes losing yourself is something we shouldnt do.

Themis - Thanks for your kind words - you described my man perfectly! You are absolutely correct in saying that a REAL friend would not try to destroy your relationship. The bizarre thing is he validates my feelings on this when I have said the exact same thing to him but can only keep to his word for about a week. I also had a male friend like this who is not in my life for the same reasons. Your advice is good - I think I will be looking it this route.

I had my r/s councillor session and she really didnt pull any punches. She said it is completely unacceptable for your b/f to go on holiday with another woman for a week and that his resulting actions around the arguement shows inconsideration and lack of respect. She has asked me to turn the spotlight on myself instead of his actions. She will see him at a councilling session and a joint one - he will do this as he is open to this type of thing, but unfortunately that wont be for a few weeks as  she is tied up. She says that this will keep happening in different ways until he takes reponsibility for his actions. She thinks councilling is the best way to resolve this - she said its like a monster under the bed that will hide but come out every now and then unless we deal with it.

In the meantime does anyone have any suggestions on what to say to him next week about the holiday and my feelings on it? I feel jumpy just thinking about that conversation. I know this is where my boundary is with him but I almost dont trust myself to tell him this. I think he knows he has me over a barrel as I love him so deeply, have invested so much to be with him and dont want to lose him.

Any ideas for that chat I would love!

Thanks :-)




   

[healingmyheart]

Connect, Welcome... .  I don't have answers but I can tell you that I've also dealt with the same thing.  My ex and I were introduced through a mutual friend.  She was a very superficial friend to me but "very best friends" with my ex.  After we'd been together for about 6 months I found out they had a physical affair in the best. I told him I wasn't comfortable with him being "friends" with her because I knew they had continued an emotional affair long after the physical part ended... .  if it truly did.  He said he would stop talking to her... .  well, found him texting her at midnight for nights on end and phone records indicated lots of phone calls.  I was beyond hurt.  I confronted him and he tried to lie for at least an hour even with my evidence.  Interesting, the phone records also identified that he was conversing with TWO other women... .  one was an old girlfriend and the other was a married women.  Oh also, the other main women who introduced us was and still is MARRIED.  I couldn't digest the reality... .  I realized after just one day of him trying to sweep it under the carpet that I wouldn't tolerate that type of behavior.  At that point, I knew nothing about BPD... .  I just knew I had a lying boyfriend who had no problem looking me in the eye and deceiving me.  I believe my ex cannot control himself and this pattern will continue.  I had to make a conscious effort to decide if that would ever be ok with me and it's totally not ok with me.  Relationships have to be based upon trust.  He keeps trying to down play it and say "i didn't cheat"... .  well, in my eyes, he did.  I warned him after I found out about the physical affair that it is not ok for him and this women to deceive me... .  he had warning and did it anyway.  Don't you love how what applies to you doesn't apply to them.  Had I been conversing with an old boyfriend, I think he would of shot me.  He had such jealousy issues and yet I never have him reason to be jealous. 

Just know, confronting and pressing the issue will cause him to demonize you... trust me.  I think you've got to make a decision to accept it to a certain degree or walk away because the issue will not go away on its on... .  that's just my humble opinion.

I loved and still love my ex but too many boundaries were passed.  I remember him openly being very flirtatious with a women while we were on vacation this past summer in front of me... .  I was in shock and had tears in my eyes.  He immediately apologized so obviously he knew what he was doing was wrong but he did it anyway right in front of me.  I allowed it and didn't say anything... .  why?  I will never belittle myself to that point again.  He was lucky to have me... .  

[healingmyheart]

Connect,

Forgot to tell you... .  my ex blamed me for him having the emotional affair.  He said it was my fault for questioning him so somehow it seems I "drove" him to do it.  Don't you love how everything is our fault?  No logic to any of this.

[gina louise]

My HUSBAND (54) was openly flirting with a waitress his D's age (18) while we were eating our First Anniversary brunch!

He had double standards and always acted like another Gf to the women he tried to pursue. He was into their r/s issues, and heard all their gossip, it was totally inappropriate.

None of them seemed to have ANY personal boundaries! Him and the women he interacted with!

It was hurtful to me and happened many times in various ways. He would come from  work or the gym and say ms XYZ is after me, she keeps asking to meet me for coffee or go to yoga. When I would ask WHY she had the impression he was available-being married-he was mystified.  "?"

I always felt it was part of a chase "game" that he felt compelled to play, it made him feel good.

When I would object, he was obviously acting "available" and not married-he would become angry at me!

Like I was his Mother, suddenly telling him to BEHAVE, spoiling HIS fun.   

GL

[almost789]

Isnt that just like them GL. Chase me act jealous, then turn on u when u do. Mine would talk to me about girls at work, but i think alot of it was made up.

[artman.1]

I have not issued an ultimatum yet but it is not far off... .  He had arranged a holiday for them all and the kids during a time when she had got me off the scene and he now seems to think it is still acceptable for him to still go or for me to go with them. I have never met this woman and I dislike her intensly from her behavoir and his when he spends time with her. He asked me what to do about this situation but I became very angry and was instantly painted black and labelled as controlling and jealous. He really thinks I am the one with the problem.

He has poor boundaries with women and he tells them all everything about his life and feelings and is emotionally very intimate with them - its no wonder they all fall for the 'caring sensitive' guy! There is always someone in the background just slightly getting the wrong idea... .  

I need advice on setting boundaries without triggering his 'you're controlling me' issues. I have spoken to him about these things and we seem to get somewhere and then he acts as though the converstation never happened. He thinks that women he has been in r/s's with are drama queens but doesn't see that he is the common denominator in them all.

I do love him although I am starting to doubt my own sanity when this sort of thing happens after such a nice time together. I seem to accept behavoirs from him that I have never stood for before and I feel a bit of a doormat for doing it.

Any boundary advice grate fully received!

Thank you :-)

I am sorry, Connect, This is absolutely abusive and really bad behavior towards you.  There is only one way you can continue in order to protect yourself.

1.) You need to begin to DETACH with love, not resentment and anger, but with compassion and love for yourself.  You have been used to sacrificing your own needs and emotional safety in order to take care of a man that has a never ending hole that you can never fill.  He is going to others to attempt to fill that forever empty hole.

2.) You absolutely must establish boundries and limits for your safety.  Each boundry must have a conditional clause.  If the boundry is ignored and violated you have to follow through with the condition as you have agreed with yourself that you will follow.  If you donot follow through then you teach him that your needs are not valid and he disrespects you, which in my humble opinion he has been doing for a long time without reprecussions.  If you do not uphold your dignity then quit complaining.

3.) There are some Deal Breaker issues that you must establish as LIMITS.  These are things like Cheating (Adultry).  If he cheats you become subjected to serious and often fatal diseases (STDs).  You absolutely must not allow yourself to become exposed to these types of Physical Safety Hazards.  If you believe he has cheated, make him use protection and get a physical evaluation before he is allowed normal marrital relations, or separate and request the physical evaluation before continuing.  These are for your protection and safety.

My Sister-in-law got AIDS over a similar occurance with her husband and has battled that disease for over 35 years now.  This is no joke!

The more you can detach with love the better you can see the whole picture from outside your enmeshment.

His boundries are nonexistent because that is a normal BPD trait as he has very poor executive control.  

Art

[4now]

In the meantime does anyone have any suggestions on what to say to him next week about the holiday and my feelings on it? I feel jumpy just thinking about that conversation. I know this is where my boundary is with him but I almost dont trust myself to tell him this. I think he knows he has me over a barrel as I love him so deeply, have invested so much to be with him and dont want to lose him.

   

First, you absolutely need to get over the investment you have in the relationship.  Even if you fake it until you actually feel it.  That is called detachment and it is not easy at all!  I am not saying you give up all hope or that you throw it all away, but you need to love YOU more than you love HIM! 

I wish there was some easy way about it, but there isn't, unfortunately.  But what I can tell you from my experience is that he will eventually drive you to detachment.  You will have to become detached because his behaviors will become more and more atrocious.  You will detach or you will be destroyed.  So you can do it now of your own volition, or you can wait and do it later and lose a lot of yourself in the process.

Your counselor is spot on.  Sometimes it takes hearing from someone else that your own boundaries are being disregarded and that it is not okay. 

I am not sure if you are ready for such a tough approach.  It takes time to get there, believe me, I know. Years, for me!  It sounds to me like you are looking for a good way to approach it all and can maybe "solve" the problem.  I am sorry to say that you can't.  There are no "right" words you can say that he will actually hear.  I think the only thing they respond to is a compelling consequence. 

I also have the advantage (or disadvantage ) of parenting a very strong willed 7 year old boy.  I watched a parenting dvd about "parenting a strong willed child."  His approach was compelling speech(telling the child clearly what you expect ), compelling consequences (something that they will respond to the first time and something drastic) and not arguing or explaining your discipline.  Now, some will probably think this is demeaning, to think of it as "parenting" , but in a lot of ways they are childlike and we are put in the role of parent.  He also says "time-outs" only work for kids who are already well behaved, BTW!

So I would ask, what is your compelling speech going to be?  Your disapproval and hurt at him so blatantly disregarding your feelings? 

What is your compelling consequence going to be?  It needs to be something that will get his attention and will show how disrespected you feel.

I am not one to mince words any more and I want to tell it to you straight!  Best wishes!

 

[4now]

Connect,

I also wanted to mention you read up on the domestic abuse cycle.  Now, I am not saying he is abusing you per se, but it is emotional abuse.  There is a post on this board, I think, or on the undecided board, about comparing the domestic abuse cycle to the cycle she experienced with her rs with a BPD partner.  Read it and see if any of that strikes a chord with you.

You are enjoying the highs of the rs and that is almost addicting and keeping you stuck accepting unacceptable behavior.  Unfortunately, in these rs you can't have the high highs without also having the lows.  It is part and parcel of the whole package.  You can't have one without the other. 

I can tell you the novelty of the high begins to wear off when you know what will follow.  You will begin to dread the high! 

The best thing to do is not to ride the roller coaster.  You can enjoy good times and all that, but you can't get on and go high, high, high, without expecting it to all come crashing down. 

[connect]

Hello :-)

Thanks Artman, stolemysole and 4now for your answers. All of this imput really helps.

He is back this evening from his lads weekend but I have arranged to go out this evening so I wont be at his place until late tonight. That way I can avoid having a temptation to 'talk' tonight as I am not really in the mood for it. I was up until 5am on this site and got upset about what has been going on and the turn around from how good it was less than a week ago. Have been tired and emotional all weekend so not a good time to talk.

My main issues with him at the moment are:

The immediacy of his return from the lads trip whilst he was in a paint me black phase and my concerns about flirting/stag style behaviour etc on it. My reaction to this.

Lack of contact on the weekend trip - only 3 txts (two of those today saying he has a present for me)

How he treated me before he went away, asked me to leave the house after midnight, telling me I am too jealous, painting me black.

Asking someone else to mind the house instead of me

Refusing to tell me if he is still planning on going on holiday with his ex f-buddy and their kids before he went away - thus leaving me to stew on it for four days. Cruel. This is my main issue. I assume he is going as he didnt want to tell me before he left and they hate being in the wrong.

If he is planning on going on holiday with her then he has 'blamed' me for this in his head. He said I wouldnt help him decide what to say to her and how to handle the situation. Therefore he had to decide on his own and if his decision (which he hasnt told me yet) is wrong then its my fault.

In his defense he did say I can come on the trip with him and his ex f-buddy/friend but honestly what sort of world does he live in? "Yeah I would SIMPLY LOVE to spend a week with you and the girl who still loves you, who tries to seduce you, bad mouths me (and you to her) and tries to break us up! I'll start packing for THAT trip right now!"

As you can tell I am not a happy bunny.

Still love the guy - what a plank I am. I dont even know what I feel at the moment - it makes me nervous thinking about seeing him with all this c**p in my head that just wants to come out! I dont know how to control it until a better time to talk. I think I need to see him, let things settle for a couple of days and then get this stuff out with him, including telling him my own boundaries. I want this to work - I think joint councilling is the only way to resolve this. What tools can I use in the meantime?

Thanks - sorry for the rant - I had hoped to have felt better by today...

[Themis]

Hello everyone,

Themis - Thanks for your kind words - you described my man perfectly! You are absolutely correct in saying that a REAL friend would not try to destroy your relationship. The bizarre thing is he validates my feelings on this when I have said the exact same thing to him but can only keep to his word for about a week. I also had a male friend like this who is not in my life for the same reasons. Your advice is good - I think I will be looking it this route.

In the meantime does anyone have any suggestions on what to say to him next week about the holiday and my feelings on it? I feel jumpy just thinking about that conversation. I know this is where my boundary is with him but I almost dont trust myself to tell him this. I think he knows he has me over a barrel as I love him so deeply, have invested so much to be with him and dont want to lose him.

Any ideas for that chat I would love!

Thanks :-)

You are most welcome!   oh and  sorry that is belated.

I am really glad I can give some advice. I feel that even though we need help on our own problems there may be small variations between newbies... .  just enough that there might be something they have dealt with before and can advise each other.

The friend thing I had experience with, that's why I could advise.

As for the holiday... .  woah! I have no idea.

"I know this is where my boundary is with him but I almost dont trust myself to tell him this. I think he knows he has me over a barrel as I love him so deeply, have invested so much to be with him and dont want to lose him."

My pwBPD knows this too. He certainly has more control. His ability to switch off is an advantage, having more friends, the fact he earns more than me, so covers the rent.

I'm at many disadvantages with him.

He doesn't love me, but I love him. Well not very much on a surface level. It would take a lot for him to win me back. But on a deep level I'll always love the fool.

I no longer love him like I used to, in that romantic, super-love way.

If you look at my story he actually broke up with two years ago, but we continued to live together in a friends with benefits situation, and weird periods of semi-relationship. All very hard on my heart.

It would take a lot for me to trust him again. I'm not aiming for that, I'm just aiming for friendship, and the end of stupid games of silence and rage. Or in your case the end of stupid games of HOLIDAYS WITH OTHER WOMEN!

My god.   I'm laughing, not because your pain is funny, but because it's ridiculous.

That's just crazy. maybe make an online poll asking about it. Then when you get a bunch of answers saying "my god woman, that is not normal!"

Show it to him, show him that the majority of humans think that is unacceptable, and anyone else would leave.

I don't know. He needs a reality check your man.

[MaybeSo]

Connect,

I struggled with your situation for five years.

I would have never entangled myself with a man before who exhibited this kind of behavior, but suddenly, in my 40s, I did. Why? I had values and boundaries that informed my choices and protected me from this kind of torment before, why was it so different this time? Well, in the midst of it all I labeled what I felt love. I was struggling so hard with obvious deal breaker behaviors because I loved him like no other.

Wrong.

I did not love him like no other. I was addicted to him like no other. Addiction is not love, but it FEELS like it and LOOKS like it when it's directed at a person you are romantically involved with. But when we are willing to compromise our values, our emotional wellbeing, and put up with humiliating antics to keep someone, it's an addiction, not love. And like any addiction it's very painful and that makes you crave the fix even more, so you put up with more. Then there will be moments of clarity when you explode, and scream at him for all his bad behavior, but really... .  the boundary lies with us. Our life is our responsibility.

I agree with the advice to detach. In a way, what that means is... .  break your addiction to this man. It is unhealthy. It is not love, and it's the addiction that is driving the conflict about his behavior. You wouldn't put up with that from someone else be ause no one else has tapped into your addiction this way before.

I'm not suggesting you don't love or care for this man, also, but what drives a person to compromise their values and own well being and best interest and personal safety is almost always an addiction. That addiction has to be broken, that's done through detachment when the addiction is to a loved one.

Doing this will speed you through a resolution to this.

Failing to do this means many more talks that later are forgotten, many more explosive arguments, breaks, recycles, the basic roller coaster life.

Detach. You can do it with love and kindness, but it's really the only hope that you keep yourself. Ultimately it's your only chance at having a real r/s with this guy, also, though that needs to be secondary and will be if you move to detachment.

[benny2]

I kind of have the same situation between me and my uBPDbf and his ex wife. He has been going back and forth between us for over a year now. I moved out, gave him his space, and he let her go, or so I thought. She moved far away, but they still kept contact. Now he claims he has nothing for her and realizes he wants me. We will see, thats all I can say, but I found it better to let them come to their own conclusions on their decisions. It seemed when I was living with him and asked him to cut ties with her, it made him more determined to do just the opposite. I have told him now if he is serious about making this work, he has to cut ties with her and if he can't it won't work. So this time the ball is in my court, by saying if you really want this, this is what you have to do rather than before where he had me in his home and more less expected me to except things on his terms.