How much was me?

[mango_flower]

I'm having a self-doubt moment.

This isn't a cry for people to say "Oh it's NOT you" - it's a genuine wobble.

I can't help thinking:

Was this my fault?

Did I really "break" her as she claimed? (by postponing our wedding and breaking her heart, even though SHE then ran away, ending it)

Will she be "normal" and "happy" now she has met somebody else?

Maybe I just didn't give her enough. (I know towards the end I was getting a bit fed up with her pointless dramas, aches and pains, bad moods and depression) and I detached slightly

Maybe she was simply a vulnerable little person who I broke, by not being sensitive enough.

Maybe if I'd been more supportive of her breakdown, this wouldn't have happened.

Maybe I deserve to have lost her.

It's so hard trying to work out what the truth is.

My friends say she was "never quite right" and "things didn't add up".  She played the victim a lot, but with the twist of "But I'm strong, see how well I am coping?".  She has a history of debt she runs from.  A broken marriage.  Many broken friendships.  No family to speak of (they all disowned her but this could be because she was gay, not sure). She appeared in my life one day, everyone was like "where did she even come from?". She changes who she is depending on who she is with (I feel like I don't even know this new person she is anymore, it's scary!).  She even "looks" different.

But maybe she isn't even BPD.  She hits all the criteria, apart from the rages.  Yet part of me thinks "yes but deep down we're all insecure, we all fear abandonment, we all want to be loved".

What if it WAS me?  How will I ever know, when my reality of what happened is so different from hers?

It's driving me crazy.

How will I ever truly know the truth about whether she's a normal individual who had a breakdown as I was insensitive and just didn't love her enough (her perception) or whether she was over-sensitive and ran before I could leave (BPD)?

And why does it even matter to me?

[trevjim]

I feel exactly the same as you, and almost want her to have BPD to gain closure and explanation for her actions. What I've come to learn is that, even if its not BPD she has, she certainly wasn't normal, so it doesn't really matter weather its apples of oranges she suffers from, she just isnt healthy.

Also I'm sure you did have a part to play, as did we all, and the fact you are on this board shows you have a healthy way of dealing with it. Take responsibility for your actions and learn from them.

Your not alone on here.

[mango_flower]

Thanks Trevjim. It's the not knowing that's driving me crazy.

I honestly want her to be happy.

BUT if she's happy forever more, with her new girl, then I will have to face the fact that I caused this.

If she breaks up with her and it all goes crazy, like we did as a couple, then I will feel so incredibly sad for her, but at the same time more reassured that it wasn't ME who caused this.

This confusion is driving me insane.

[clairedair]

I'm having a self-doubt moment.

This isn't a cry for people to say "Oh it's NOT you" - it's a genuine wobble.

I can't help thinking:

Was this my fault?

I think most of us here have this self-doubt.  Partly because we care; partly because we have absorbed all those messages we heard about how we let them down; partly FOO issues - a whole mix.  But we do feel it.

Did I really "break" her as she claimed? (by postponing our wedding and breaking her heart, even though SHE then ran away, ending it)

Will she be "normal" and "happy" now she has met somebody else?

Maybe I just didn't give her enough. (I know towards the end I was getting a bit fed up with her pointless dramas, aches and pains, bad moods and depression) and I detached slightly

Maybe she was simply a vulnerable little person who I broke, by not being sensitive enough.

Maybe if I'd been more supportive of her breakdown, this wouldn't have happened.

Maybe I deserve to have lost her.

I hurt my exH very badly at a time when he was just recovering from depression.  I spent a long time believing I'd broken him; that I deserved the name-calling and raging I got; that if I'd handled his depression better, things wouldn't have got out of hand; that I should have been stronger etc. 

But I came to realise that whilst my actions were not excusable, there were reasons why I'd got into that mess that related to his pain and drama and I didn't deserve to be treated the way I was.

Interestingly, you go on to say...

What if it WAS me?  How will I ever know, when my reality of what happened is so different from hers?

How will I ever truly know the truth about whether she's a normal individual who had a breakdown as I was insensitive and just didn't love her enough (her perception) or whether she was over-sensitive and ran before I could leave (BPD)?

How much of what you wrote is the truth about yourself and how much is what she told you about yourself that you've started to believe?  NOt saying our exes didn't get some things right - I certainly had to take a hard look at myself for a while - but it's so easy to get into a spiral of shame.

There's a line from a song (appropriately called 'Hate on me' that I sing to myself at these times:

"If I could give you the world

On a silver platter

Would even matter"

It matters to you when you feel you may have hurt her.  Doesn't sound like this happens the other way around.  And it's unlikely that she'll be happy with the new someone because she's just taken her issues with her.

[mango_flower]

Thanks so much Clairedair - food for thought indeed!

My friends (who were actually OUR friends) all think she is "not quite right" (their words) and think I had the patience of a saint.  That helps. But I also think I could have been a little more supportive when the going got rough. But my view was - it's fine - we're in love - we'll be together forever, I need to give her space to work out her own demons.

She heard - "You don't love me, you're not fighting for me, it's over" (finds herself an escape route, leave me with a rent contract and unpaid bills).

I guess if I look at what a healthy person would do, they would sit down and talk about it (I did try when things had gotten really bad but got doors slammed in my face and the cold shoulder) and they would be sad I'd postponed the wedding, but true love would lead to acceptance and wanting it to be right for both of us... .  yes?

Maybe she's just emotionally immature, not BPD.  Who actually knows!  Thank you, your post made me think x

[freshlySane]

Jill Scott yes i think of it this way i blame myself but in the grand scale i treated her as a queen i treated her the way i wanted to be treated she couldn't do that and when the storms hit she kept souvenirs. Just to show me latter in another storm while she was getting her self ready to leave. living me in the aftermath of the disaster she created blaming myself hurting myself ruminating place of suspended animation all the things she wants today i fell into her trap by breaking NC but on thing i learned and i needed to completely keep remembering people treat people they love with love and they expect love back. If you treat someone with disdain and you get love back eventually that love will turn to disdain don't beat yourself for reacting. If someone kept punching you and you let them even if someday they didn't assault you the next time you are about to be hit you will react with a counter of your own and because its so out of the norm they play victim and your the attacker when the whole time you were being victimize all of this is remnants of there abuse no matter how big or small it is

[mango_flower]

Thanks Freshlysane - yes, you're right. Until I postponed the wedding, we treated each other with sensitivity and kindness.  But her reactions afterwards were attention seeking, and downright cruel at times.  If this is how she acts when the going gets tough, putting her own needs above mine rather than 50/50 and expecting me to pander to her, then that's not a healthy relationship, you're right.  You can't keep giving love and getting disdain back. x

[clairedair]

hi freshlysane/mango flower

you both make the point that you treated partner the way you'd like to be treated; you tried to be loving.  And not only was it not reciprocated; you were blamed and told you were doing it all wrong/it wasn't enough.

So partner can swan off into sunset and you are left picking up pieces (including the bills!) and beating yourself up thinking that if you've just done that one thing better, you'd still be together... .  sigh.

I'm pretty much past that stage but it took a long time.  Now when I think of things he used to say that I did wrong, I don't feel shame.  I feel angry that he thought it was OK to say those things the way he did and angry that I listened.  I'm working on getting to the stage of apathy!

freshlysane - doesn't sound like you had a good day - hope tomorrow better.

take care,

Claire

[freshlySane]

Thanks Freshlysane - yes, you're right. Until I postponed the wedding, we treated each other with sensitivity and kindness.  But her reactions afterwards were attention seeking, and downright cruel at times.  If this is how she acts when the going gets tough, putting her own needs above mine rather than 50/50 and expecting me to pander to her, then that's not a healthy relationship, you're right.  You can't keep giving love and getting disdain back. x

she cried when i postponed our wedding even went to making me feel guilty by saying " i wanted to surprise you with taking you to the court house and use getting married on fathers day so you can become the kids real father" i postponed it because one we argued alot two i felt truly alone with her and three i blamed myself like " oh why did i postponed it dang i can be married to her know but and this but hasn't waive red you cant surprise any person with marriage especially on fathers day so i have to share fathers day with you when you get a whole day for yourself as a mother and on top of that we dont pick our wedding date so i can tell my fmaily and friend to come

[willy45]

Yup. There lot's of good stuff out there. I know how easy it is to feel like it is all our fault. And honestly, that is the main hook, isn't it? We fell for it. I know I did. I fell for it hard. It was always my fault. And the ONLY way the relationship could have been maintained is if we accepted that. THE ONLY WAY!

Now, if you can accept that as the truth, then one can start looking at the impact that has on the self. The self disappears. It is no longer there. You are living someone else's version of reality. And that reality is distorted, crazy, and totally f*ing scary.

If at any time during one of her rages, I said: 'Hey, you are acting like a crazy b*tch', that would have been the end. Right there. I wish I did that the first time something crazy happened. But I sucked it up. And that was a slippery slope. I kept sucking it up. And each and every time I did that, I lost my sense of self, my confidence in my own perceptions, my sense of reality. And it became habitual. I blamed myself. As long as I could do that, the relationship could proceed. When things started to get insanely rocky is when I stopped. I started to take a stand. And she didn't like that... .  

So Mango_Flower, this is the exact dynamic that kept you in a toxic, abusive situation. Now that you are out, the dynamic is replaying in your head. It is a habit of mind. You have lost your own sense of self. You have lost your self-esteem. Being able to determine what is good and bad is basically who you are. That is it. Those are the boundaries of the self. When you loose that, you loose yourself. It no longer becomes about you. It becomes about them. It is always, always about them.

So, there you have it. That is why your mind is doing that. You are still replaying the dynamic in your mind. How to stop that? Now that is the million dollar question for me right now.

[SarahinMA]

I'm in the EXACT same boat- and posted something similar not too long ago.  I have anxiety issues and tend to seek a lot of validation- so when my ex devalued me and blamed everything on me, it really rocked me to my core.  Had I really been the horrible person/ girlfriend that he claimed I was?  It sure seemed that way when I lost him and many friends after he broke up with me... .  and still continue to lose as mutual friends fall to his new source's charm. 

I sometimes wonder why I was put through this experience and I honestly believe it was so I could get to know myself better.  It's funny- I used to be a lot more popular.  For me, it was all about quantity over quality... .  how many facebook friends could I get, etc.  (again, validation).  Now, I strive to make meaningful relationships, who I know won't drop me at the drop of a hat.  I don't want "friends" who do nothing but bad-mouth others. 

I still struggle trying to figure out if my ex was really the worst thing or best thing that ever happened to me.  I feel like I needed this wakeup call.  I was being fake, living a lie.  Now, I realize how truly insecure I was when I dated him.  I pressed his buttons and said hurtful things to evoke some emotion out of him.  I'm not proud, but I truly believe it was due to my anxiety.  We constantly "tested" each other.  I don't want to be like that or be with someone like that.  I wasn't perfect, but I did the best I could at the time. 

Sorry for the long-winded response- therapy for me too. 

[HarmKrakow]

Thanks Trevjim. It's the not knowing that's driving me crazy.

I honestly want her to be happy.

BUT if she's happy forever more, with her new girl, then I will have to face the fact that I caused this.

If she breaks up with her and it all goes crazy, like we did as a couple, then I will feel so incredibly sad for her, but at the same time more reassured that it wasn't ME who caused this.

This confusion is driving me insane.

Seriously, the sentence, then i will have to face the fact that i caused it is such bollocks. She broke up due to her immature emotions and not being able to handle it. In a normal r/s one would be to communicate but with someone with BPD that is impossible.

BPD r/s don't break because not enough energy is being put in but that at the end communication goes mayhem. Not only no communication on 1 line but also speaking in 2 languages.

The reason why you are so confused so much and whether you were the one to blame, is because this r/s was the single most intense thing ever happened in life. And in a way it was intoxicating to the deepest sense of your soul. You feel guilty to your soul that you cant give your body that sick intoxicating feeling anymore, and thus blame yourself

[freshlySane]

Thanks Trevjim. It's the not knowing that's driving me crazy.

I honestly want her to be happy.

BUT if she's happy forever more, with her new girl, then I will have to face the fact that I caused this.

If she breaks up with her and it all goes crazy, like we did as a couple, then I will feel so incredibly sad for her, but at the same time more reassured that it wasn't ME who caused this.

This confusion is driving me insane.

Seriously, the sentence, then i will have to face the fact that i caused it is such bollocks. She broke up due to her immature emotions and not being able to handle it. In a normal r/s one would be to communicate but with someone with BPD that is impossible.

BPD r/s don't break because not enough energy is being put in but that at the end communication goes mayhem. Not only no communication on 1 line but also speaking in 2 languages.

The reason why you are so confused so much and whether you were the one to blame, is because this r/s was the single most intense thing ever happened in life. And in a way it was intoxicating to the deepest sense of your soul. You feel guilty to your soul that you cant give your body that sick intoxicating feeling anymore, and thus blame yourself

Amen that is so right yesterday i posted about blaming myself but in all my ex too can not cope with a r/s a lot of little things sparked her off why because she cant handle things. it all goes back to them Emotionally Immature if your wrong your wrong and if there wrong how dare you tell them that. I have a friend i love her to death i was so discarding to her and still to this day she is understanding and forgiving she messages me everyday and when we argue we reconcile almost immediately we express our feelings and we talk things out. I am not afraid to express with her and i fear absolutely no repercussions for speaking my mind i treat and talk to her as if it was my ex and she is so understanding its almost not normal for me.

my ex has warped my mind on how a rational real r/s should be i blame myself for my deplorable actions based on reacting to her but i will not blame myself for being me. She showed no empathy at all maybe at times and who knows if that's because she wanted something at that time. my friend tells me she loves my character my personality things i only heard in the idealization phase with my ex. I am a very worrisome person it shows on my face my ex would come and say "hey whats wrong" id say "nothing" shed ask again and ill respond the same next statement is "oh so your going to lie to me to my face". I explained to her growing up if i had a problem my mother would chase me down whats wrong? are you ok ? tell me? please tell me? no tell me?. I have issues with anger and i learned i need time to think ruminate deal and then come to anyone and talk rationally but if im angry and im badgered at the moment i get defensive not mature but i have my own coping mechanism to deal with anger that help me stay sane and healthy this way im not lashing out at others. I told my ex this still

She could not understand, why? because it was like i was hiding things from her and i wasn't i just can not deal with alot at times and need to find a sense of calm and then rationalize my thoughts and emotions to express them constructively i have been like this since i was a child i know my issues and how to deal. She could not accept that. My friend i never lashed out on her called her derogatory names and i never go to her with my problems she sees me hurt or sad or mad she gives me a hug and tells me "come to me when your ready" almost instantly im calmer and i tell her why im in the mood im in 99% of the times it has nothing to do with the person around me its about my own fears and worry.

See ? big differences i feel whole with my friend and comforted with her.

and the sick part is i have a wonderful women in my presence who i adore and can not commit to WHY?

because im addicted to my ExpwBPD Why because i allowed myself to be judge solely by her and with that I only view myself in her eyes WHY (Lol) because i for a very long time hated myself so if the women i loved can see my flaws and know where i fall short things i kick myself over for years then i most not be deserving of love

Malarky because many people see good in me and i laugh it off I have a great women who does things that bother me at times but she is so loving and kind i must be deserving of that and one day hopefully ill see it and be happy im out of that horrible r/s.

Thank you for listening

Be kind to yourself

[Lost_husband]

   Let me tell you from experience.  If you friends and or family feel that she is "a little off"  and "things just aren't right"  TRUST them. 

    Been there done that.  Lost friends... .  really good ones over her.  They will back you for so long.  But eventually thier SO will grow tired of her and her lies and stories.  Your friends will part ways.  Next it will be only you and her.  After that you have no space.  Add in kids and house.  Next you will be trapped.

    If you got the chance to jump ship do it.  Its only gets harder to deal with. 

[gina louise]

The way my stbxBPDh spins the end of our marriage HE was the wounded broken Victim, and I was the Aggressor.

Far from it. He raged at me repeatedly and irrationally-I left the room and the house many times, and finally the r/s.

We just have different realities.

He needs his reality to pretend and believe he's still the Good Guy-so nobody but me knew his mask slipped.

I almost bailed the day before our wedding he was so dysregulated. So you are not alone in either taking action to protect yourself-or wondering about it later! 

GL