How do you get support for yourself?

[Beware of Junk Psychology...]

 

Cheers you guys. Glad I often say what everyone else is thinking.

I even had a conversation with a friends about this. I think it comes from a good place and the Oprah self-help type of thinking... .  

There's all this stuff about working on yourself, and getting rid of issues before dating others and how we must be complete alone and not needs others.

Well on the way to all this "self-work" and becoming so damn independent you truly can be fine alone and live on a hill in your hut of self-love and acceptance.

Along that path I have seen hurt people helping other hurt people. In my teens I was pretty lonely and hooked up with another "pretty lonely" guy. We both had issues, but we helped each other so much and the relationship did us a world of good.

It was part of my journey, and part of me becoming me. We were better people afterwards.

But according to these philosophies-- that shouldn't have happened. I should have filled that void of family issues and feelings of lacking love BY MYSELF--for god knows how many years and if that is 100% possible.

Then date a man that is also 100% healthy and doesn't need a relationship.

What rubbish. Everyone deserve love even our sometimes cruel pwBPD. Even needy people, even people with depression. Everyone.

Part of getting my confidence was the fact that after feeling so alone--this young man fell head over heels for me. He really showed me I was lovable.

It helped me a lot faster than I could have helped myself---talking to the mirror and telling myself how great I am.

A relationship can be healing. Even my current relationship did me a world of good in so many ways. There's a sad ending, but he has given me so much, really helped me out of my timid shell and into a woman.

Friendships can do the same. People love people. Even "alone" activities generally involve others like going to the movies and the joy of laughing with strangers.

We are always getting pleasure & comfort from others and there is nothing wrong with that.

[Themis]

 

Cheers you guys. Glad I often say what everyone else is thinking.

I even had a conversation with a friends about this. I think it comes from a good place and the Oprah self-help type of thinking... .  

There's all this stuff about working on yourself, and getting rid of issues before dating others and how we must be complete alone and not needs others.

Well on the way to all this "self-work" and becoming so damn independent you truly can be fine alone and live on a hill in your hut of self-love and acceptance.

Along that path I have seen hurt people helping other hurt people. In my teens I was pretty lonely and hooked up with another "pretty lonely" guy. We both had issues, but we helped each other so much and the relationship did us a world of good.

It was part of my journey, and part of me becoming me. We were better people afterwards.

But according to these philosophies-- that shouldn't have happened. I should have filled that void of family issues and feelings of lacking love BY MYSELF--for god knows how many years and if that is 100% possible.

Then date a man that is also 100% healthy and doesn't need a relationship.

What rubbish. Everyone deserve love even our sometimes cruel pwBPD. Even needy people, even people with depression. Everyone.

Part of getting my confidence was the fact that after feeling so alone--this young man fell head over heels for me. He really showed me I was lovable.

It helped me a lot faster than I could have helped myself---talking to the mirror and telling myself how great I am.

A relationship can be healing. Even my current relationship did me a world of good in so many ways. There's a sad ending, but he has given me so much, really helped me out of my timid shell and into a woman.

Friendships can do the same. People love people. Even "alone" activities generally involve others like going to the movies and the joy of laughing with strangers.

We are always getting pleasure & comfort from others and there is nothing wrong with that.

[Themis]

Also have you noticed that all the people going on about how they don't need others and how they can be entirely alone and fine... .  

ALL HAVE LOVING FAMILIES, FRIENDLY NEIGHBOURS, MANY FRIENDS AND ARE OFTEN MARRIED WITH CHILDREN?  

Yeah right zen master "I am complete in myself" they go home to a big double bed and smooch up to their wife... .  

If they are single they have a lot of mates or people they have fun with. They might work with people all the time. They are not isolated and "alone".

I think people can only claim these things if they are truly a hermit. Otherwise it is a pack of lies.

[almost789]

For me I think it all boiled down to loneliness. Rather than some deep seated personal abandonemnt wound or other issue. I work, but from home now, where I used to travel around andninteract with people, now I sit in front of a computer all day, no personal interaction, other than this board. My oldest moved out last year, my youngest is almost 17, neither of them are here much and they definitly dont need mom for much anymore. Yes I have friends, but we all live our separatr lives with work and family. So our frienshio is mostly a chat on the phone every now and then. Yes I shoukd have myself involved with more activities, but Im not the type to particularly enjoy womens clubs and things like that. Id much rather have a bf. Thats what I find enjoyment in.

I read lots of books and introspected. I read Jeffery Youngs book, and detailed all my schemas. I tested positive on several, but tlhe book said not on a high enough level for it to be a problem in my life that needs work on. I didnt have any major issues before my bf with BPD. He abandoned me, this caused my me to have a major depression and I think PTSD issues. I had some family problems but ive never experienced a loss of love like this, i wasnt abused. I had a normal healthy happy role models with my grandparents who basically raised me in times of distress with my alcoholic mother. I lived with them most of my life. I have one long term relationship which, a go is fairly healthy, a good career, happy normal family. Im just lonely! And want some company.

I agree with arabella, when can we just go live and maybe find ourselves in that process. Stop this over ananlyzing ourselves, our FOO and just live. That's what I am going to do. I don't ever plan on letting myself get attached to another BPD person. I'm not THAT lonely and I am a whole lot more knowledgable now.

[Cumulus]

These are some interesting threads    Some of the comments have made me feel defensive though, so I have waited a bit to post because I don't want to come across as holier than thou or Miss Perfect, both titles bestowed on me by xBPDh, and if I do,  I'm sorry, I really don't mean to. I am at that place where I do need to find myself, that is why I am here posting, reading and going through the work shops on this site. Some of the comments on this post made me feel like, what is wrong with me, why don't I want to just have fun too. And, do I think that I don't need others and can be entirely alone and fine. Well I am one of those people fortunate enough to have a couple good friends close by, children, and many co worker buddies. None of them touch the loneliness I feel that can only be met by having a SO to share emotional and physical intimacy with. We are not designed to go through life alone. I want that person in my life. But not at the cost I paid with the BPD relationship.

We are all the pilots of our own lives. It is a wonderful thing to have a copilot in the seat next to you, someone to help guide you through stormy weather, to share the joy of a beautiful sunrise and someone you can trust to temporarily take the controls if you are unable.

If that person is untrustworthy it is better flying solo.

If I don't understand how to pick a good person, it is well documented on these pages how one BPD relationship is changed out for another. It does start with understanding myself, I know that I could never have physical intimacy without emotional intimacy. Sure I'd like to go there, it would be comforting, but only temporary. I don't want temporary. No, I don't think that the first man I date will be my future partner, but I want to be aware when I meet someone unhealthy and I want my emotional self to be healthy enough to give and take in a new relationship.  So please don't look down on me, I would love to be able to give up the introspection and just live life. Just have fun. Just have someone. But the cost of what I could get, is just not worth it.

[almost789]

Cumulus, no one is looking down on u for introspection. Were all at different levels. I could nit even think of moving on with another in the beginning. Im way out from my initial break up and self reflection.

[Cumulus]

Thanks LGO2. But I am almost two years out! I just keep telling myself that I have a lot more years to get through.   and you are right, we are at different levels and because we are individuals, albeit with a common issue, we all have different goals as well. Best wishes.

[almost789]

Thats right Cumulus. We do all have different goals. And my comments are soley about ME. I never said in any of my comments that everyone should be or do what I am. I'm not sure why you feel that our comments are about you or that you should feel defensive about what I feel I am ready to do with MY life. I am 15 months out. It still hurts, I still feel sad sometimes and I know others who were "over it" in a few months. My pwBPD told me two weeks after we broke up. He "was" pretty upset about it. As if he "was" upset, but after 2 weeks he was fine. It was a slap in the face, here I am 15 months out and still struggling!

But, back to Arabella, she said she was beffudled with all the talk about looking at yourself. And stressing about all the "thinking and analyzing" it.  I can relate to this because I hear the same thing over and over again. I have looked at myself. I have admitted my wrongs. I was healthy before this. I've taken my inventory, nothing serious found. Is it ok for me to move on now, with another? With out being told I am a co-dependant, a narcissist, a needy person who can't handle being alone. I feel I am ready, I've done my self searching and analyzing my part. I don't need to be told by others who do not know me. No, I think you should look at yourself some more... .  if you need companionship... .  there must be something wrong deep inside you... .  This kind of over analysis and self doubt is frustrating and non productive.

[P.F.Change]

[Cross-posted]

Humans are communal creatures. Most of us do need to feel connected to other people. That's true. There's nothing wrong with wanting to be in a relationship.

But it is not "self-soothing" if we are expecting someone else to make us feel better. There's a difference between learning to manage our own moods and trying to meet our needs through other people.

I think looking for another bf at this point is the opposite of self-soothing... .  it is looking outside yourself for comfort. On another level it is even manipulative if you are hoping it will make your husband jealous enough to change his ways. And that would definitely be unfair to any potential new b/f... .  it objecifies him.

You may very well have unmet emotional needs; you may crave a more fulfilling r/s, and that is certainly ok. But can you be ok being YOU, even if there is not a man around to reassure you that you are loveable and worthwhile? I'm not saying you have to be single... .  but it can be valuable to spend some time growing as an individual before getting involved in another r/s--especially when you've been involved with a pwBPD. People often get themselves into trouble when they rush into another r/s without taking the time to resolve their own underlying issues. Romantic r/ss can serve as a distraction that makes us feel better short-term, but the issues will still be there. Just something to consider.

I'm sorry your first T was so unable to hear you and help you. But there are better ones out there... .  I hope the next one is a better fit. It is important that a T understand your goals and be able to help you feel supported. I hope that will go well for you.

Wishing you peace,

PF

[almost789]

I mentioned this to Arabella in a private message. Me choosing to take a boyfriend was in no way to make my husband jealous. It was for fulfilment for me, in fact I hid it from him initially. What I found happened later, was his reaction was to be more attentive to me. I never manipulated it that way or expected it. It took me by complete suprize. But I appreciate, again, someone elses spin on MY situation.

[P.F.Change]

Dear LGO2,

It seems you think my post was directed to you and was intended to "spin" your situation. That is not the case.

The thread host asked some questions. I gave my opinion to her based on those questions and the general discussion in the thread. My comments are nothing personal to you or your situation.

PF

[almost789]

Ok PF Change, that must have been my naturally defensive nature. I thought you were refering to me, since I was the one who made the comment about it signaling a competative streak in my husband. I thought when you made the statement that "if your doing it to make your husband jealous" that's manipulative was refering to my comment. I apologize, I did assume you were referring to my motive there, but if you weren't than no offense taken! PF.

[arabella]

This thread has taken some fascinating spins - thank you all for your input!

I find it interesting how defensive we can all become (myself included). Do you think it's a result of having been in long term relationships with pwBPD? Truly, I find myself much more 'on-guard' and edgy than I ever was prior to my current r/s (in general, not just on these boards). Of course, there is also the very personal nature of a lot of the 'work' we do here. It's difficult to sort through it all, especially since we are all dealing with our own emotional upheavals off-line. Not to be insensitive or anything, please don't take it that way, but I do actually find these debates helpful - although I am sorry that we all have to go through the turmoil to reap the rewards.

PatientandClear - I think the points you made are very on point. That's how I feel - that I need more emotional input as a social creature. I completely agree that humans are meant to interact and that we feed off that connection. Personally, I think it's healthy. I also agree that one should be able to be alone. The problem arises when a person just can't be happy on their own. One is a choice the other is desperation. I don't think I need a bf. I think I want one. Does that make sense? Of course, I also fear I'm being delusional re my wants vs. needs... .  and thus this thread.

Cumulus - you should never be afraid to post your opinion here, especially since I specifically asked for it! I think it's very healthy to know when you need more time. That doesn't mean you aren't doing well, it means you know yourself - that's actually fantastic! Really, it's too bad that everyone doesn't take the time to stop and really consider things - look before they leap. This is what I'm attempting to do (albeit awkwardly). Everyone has different needs and capacities, it's important not to let someone else's ideas warp your sense of self. You know yourself best. Now I'm just trying to check how well I know myself by posting these questions - it's like self-testing and I want people to challenge me!

P.F.Change - I am definitely not looking at having another bf as a means to manipulate my husband. I have given this a fair amount of thought and I truly don't know how he would feel about the whole thing - so that's not much to work with in terms of trying to manipulate a situation. I also plan to be very upfront about my situation with any potential new suitor, and then he can take it or leave it as he sees fit (some people will be bothered by it, others I'm sure just won't care). I'm trying my best to avoid any collateral damage. As for meeting my needs through other people... .  Well, that's the issue I'm debating here. How to tell if it's something I want to enhance my life vs. using others to meet a need I should be meeting for myself. I mean, it seems there's some consensus here that humans need social connection, so we aren't ever entirely self-sufficient. So how much self-sufficiency is enough? Where's the line?

How do you decide if you taking care of yourself or avoiding your own issues? Geez, that is a tough one. And worse than that, you are the only one who can answer it.

^ This is the problem! I want an answer that I don't have to come up with myself because I don't necessarily trust myself not to just give me the answer I want to hear! (And how convoluted was THAT?) 

The other issue is that, regardless of having another r/s, I'm still not actually single. So testing the theory of being by myself is sort of a moot point. However, I do think that I have the capacity for that. I'm not desperate. Do I have "underlying issues to resolve"? I don't know! That's the problem. Are there specific questions I should be asking myself? Is it okay to just be the type of person who is happier in a r/s as opposed to being single? Or is that just indicative of some sort of 'issue'? I'm making myself dizzy over here. 

[daze]

Daze - aaaand... .  BINGO! It's not self-soothing. This is where I start tying myself in knots. Am I just avoiding my own issues? Filling up some sort of emotional hole in myself that I really should be working on alone? Or is this, as LGO2 said earlier, just human nature to want human connection and more meaningful contact? How can I tell?

Arabella, I'm glad you didn't take my statement on self soothing the wrong way because that's definitely not how I meant it!  Looks like it opened a can of worms though.

The issues you bring up are thought provoking.  I totally understand the need for human connection, physical contact and, yes, VALIDATION from a man - totally normal for a straight woman.

Lol, last fall my uNPD/BPD mom told the man who bought her house (for his fiance who dumped him three weeks after closing on the house) that he should ask me out.  He asked me out but I was in the thick of it and was trying to sort myself out, my role in the destructiveness of the r/s with H, etc.  I couldn't do it.  And the guy looks really good on paper - my age (40s), great looking, well educated, good job, etc.  The red flags for him would be two divorces and then the broken engagement.

But that's just me.  I have issues to address, I love my H, and we're not in an open r/s.



 

[arabella]

Thankfully I like cans of worms (metaphoric ones only, please)! Two divorces and a broken engagement seems like a really big ... .  But then, really it doesn't matter, because if you weren't ready to meet someone then you just weren't, plain and simple. At least you knew that!

So, I signed up on a dating website. No idea how that will go, but I figured there was no harm in at least looking, right? Something's gotta give here and I can't just sit around feeling sorry for myself and wishing I was out doing fun things. Gotta make it happen! I'm working on other stuff too - saying yes to invites from friends, trying to restart my career, signed up for an exercise class with a friend. Uhh... .  what else do people do for fun? Most of my friends are couples and I don't want to do the 3rd wheel tag-along, and I'm really not interested in the bar scene, and I'd rather not just hang out by myself all the time. I had this problem the other day with my husband too, we had some time but couldn't think what to do with it (the weather here is crappy right now, so outdoor activities aren't great) - bear in mind he's avoiding talking to me too. 

[almost789]

Please Please Please be very cautious with the dating websites. That's where I found my pwBPD and had met a couple before him who seemed really nice and cool only to find they weren't so nice and cool after a couple of meetings. I have to stay away from them myself because in a way they trigger me, I can't stand them now. But it could just be my local area doesn't have all that many GREAT guys on dating websites.

[P.F.Change]

I'm working on other stuff too - saying yes to invites from friends, trying to restart my career, signed up for an exercise class with a friend. Uhh... .  what else do people do for fun? Most of my friends are couples and I don't want to do the 3rd wheel tag-along, and I'm really not interested in the bar scene, and I'd rather not just hang out by myself all the time.

Do your married friends not do things without their husbands? What about organizing a regular ladies' night? Go for dinner or drinks or a girly movie or something else the group enjoys?

Your other ideas sound good, too. 

PF

[almost789]

... .  Arabella. Your comment about liking cans of worms. ... .  

I imagined you sitting there eating cans of worms... .  and enjoying it.

[arabella]

Worms = not for eating!

P.F.Change - my married friends do indeed do mostly 'couple stuff'. I think this is because they tend to work a lot of hours so they don't actually see their spouses very often. Also, I'm friends with about an equal split of the women/men in the couples - so that won't really work as a 'ladies' night, unfortunately. And, of course, there's always some awkwardness if I try to hang out with my male friends, who are married, without inviting their wives (lunch is fine, dinner and a movie not so much). Oh, and my two best girlfriends, who would be perfect for getting out with, have moved quite a few hours away. Geesh, how did this even happen? My social circle sounds so odd when I type it out!