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Author Topic: Coming to terms that d13 is in RTC still questioning decision  (Read 2382 times)
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« Reply #30 on: March 22, 2013, 01:33:14 PM »

Dear CICI

still working out the kinks at FRR... .  I hope in time there will be able to help her... .  some one said once that it took years for your child to get this way so it could take a while for change... .  I hope you get to talk with her soon... .  maybe that will help ease your mind. I am sure the distance is hard too.

Please don't feel bad about the "Parental issues"  I think this is really common... .  my dd and myself don't always get along but it is not because I am not trying and I am sure you are too. Don't even think about that right now... .  she is getting help and at the end of this journey hopefully she will have better insight into your relationship... .  I bet she misses you and she is probably scared not know what will become of her.

Don't despair ... .  have hope... .  give it time now... .  it is too early to tell... .  trust that they are doing what is right for your d... .  you will always be her mother whether she lives with you or not but I bet she ends back with you when all is said and done... .  don't give that a second thought... .  you are a good mama and she is missing that right now... .  
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« Reply #31 on: March 22, 2013, 01:35:23 PM »

one more thing... .  my dd would tell me to stop yelling too when it was her that was doing the yelling... .  I think this is a kind of projecting... .  she often accused me of having no friends and being a lair too... .  unfortunately those descriptions all suited her too well... .  
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« Reply #32 on: March 22, 2013, 04:22:33 PM »

Hi CICI,

Cheers, letting you know you have lots of friends here to help you through this. We are in the background often, reading and caring about you and yours. In the meantime, have you thought about lbj's questions?

Cheers,

Vivek    
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« Reply #33 on: March 23, 2013, 02:45:46 PM »

LBJ you posed good questions regarding participating in family weekends and therapy.  I know her dad will participate in therapy calls and weekends, I'll have to pay my own travel expenses I'm sure.  That is going to be challenging but I'll do whatever I have to do.  He is not communicating to me about finances right now.  I am just taking it one day at a time and will make certain travel expenses are discussed and agreed upon in the divorce.     We have a therapy call on Wednesday I am looking forward to working on my relationship with dd.  DD and I had a really good week before she left for FRR.  I want to build on that.  SBTX won't care if she's in Utah or home once the divorce is final, he just wants to keep a promise he made to her to move out.  He and her have a good relationship, he says yes to everything.  They are close, little to no conflict there.  If it is thought that it would be best for dd to live with stbx I am completley open to that, whatever is best for her.  I do want her to come home to me first though and try to keep the kids together and I want a chance for our relationship to shine, I know we have come so far already and am confident will be closer at the end of this journey. 

jellibeans-you are so right, I need to give this more time.  I go through moments, usually when I'm reading these boards that I believe in the decision, then my worry, indecision and fear come into play and I struggle again.  I wish I wasn't being vilified in the process, I know I am not a bad parent nor do I believe I am bad for her.  Just the opposite, but sbtx is hanging on what is written in medical reports.  I just have to deal with it, I know the truth.  He gets to smell like a rose, irritating.  What's important is dd though and what's best for her. 

I don't know what I would do without these boards right now, I don't feel anyone else understands or cares what I am going through. 

jellibeans-I hope your dd and you get to visit today.


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« Reply #34 on: March 23, 2013, 03:05:19 PM »

CICI

My dd didn't want to see me again today... .  I am a bit emotional about it... .  I told the nurse that if she wants to see me she will need to tell the nurse... .  I am not going to call her everyday and ask her permission... .  

Please keep us posted on your dd... .  I am thinking of you... .  how hard it must be to be going through a divorce at the same time... .  emotions must be high... .  don't worry about the future right now... .  you have plenty of time to figure out where she will live... .  just put that aside... .  it is taking up too much of your time and energy.

Don't worry about being the villian either... .  that is her illness talking... .  you are her mama and she needs you in her life... .  take care... .  

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« Reply #35 on: March 24, 2013, 01:29:25 AM »

Don't worry about being the villian either... .  that is her illness talking... .  you are her mama and she needs you in her life... .  take care... .  

wise words here 

Viv
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« Reply #36 on: March 26, 2013, 06:50:09 AM »

sbtx called the RTC yesterday after some prompting from me, I am trying to get him to engage in treatment and with the facility.  He refutes everything I say and rejects it, so I am hoping he can develop his own opinions based on conversations and involvement.  It's what will be best for dd too.  I am hoping he can open communication up with me again.  Finally received letters from d13-they were ran through the mail machine on 3/4 we received them 3/25... . ? ponies travelled faster from Utah, they were as expected all I hate it please come get me.  I wasn't alarmed by anything other than she was aware of the use of restraints and stated they almost restrained her.  Shes never been aggresssive outwardly or even a challenge to authority so I am curious to see what that means.  The clinical director has already stated to us d13 has lied to me about being called a btch in group, apparently it wasn't in group.  Again, another behavior that's not typical for d13, she doesn't out and out lie. She was placed on safety as she attempted to self harm with her finger nails (very typical, using that as an excuse I need to leave or else I'll... . )  Her original t has been out on due to illness for the past 3 weeks.  d13 is now in the clinical directors case load.  When sbtx spoke to clinical director he questioned when we could have social calls, I pointed out it's been 4 weeks and we are being advised that they may not happen for awhile, again, I COMPLETELY come unglued about this.  (NOT what we were told by admissions director at all) It's such a red flag to have the facility withholding direct communication.  but then I breathe deep and realize I do believe this is a good facility, I don't believe they are harming her.  I just think this is a very very poor policy.  If the calls become abusive towards me I can always end the calls, and again, she's never been abusive towards me so they are trying to protect me from something that doesn't happen.  Clinical Director agreed to consider this when i spoke to her last and she will discuss further with us on Wed. That's all for now.   My question to myself is, while "tough love" PPC may be a therapy model that works for girls that have mental illness, is it the only therapy route that would help her.  Not getting a lot of DBT here from what I can tell either, very disappointed in that.   Thanks again for the support.
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« Reply #37 on: March 26, 2013, 07:54:23 AM »

Hi CICI 

Good to see you back.

I find it interesting that you refer to PPC as "tough love".  I didn't experience it that way at all.  Having sat through several sessions at FRR it was with great care and concern that the girls hold each other accountable.  First they validate with "support", then they validate individually, followed by accountability.  Are your perceptions coming from your d's interpretation or your own understanding of the process?  It difficult to get the full gist of PPC until you have experienced it... . reading the book (very dry) really isn't enough.  PPC is used in many different settings including some public schools and juvenile detention centers because it is particularly effective for teens/young adults. 

The first time I sat through a meeting it was a family PPC session.  The families and their daughters sitting together.  A family was chosen to take the meeting and each family group came to a concensus of what they wanted to offer to the chosen family as validation, observation, solutions.  It was really good to see a) individual families discussing rationally together with a common goal b) how much awareness of issues and skills each daughter had learned c) the acceptance of ideas that were different from each family without being triggered d)patience and compassion from the teen girls e) how each girl was able to express in wisemind their thoughts/feelings/solutions.

Most of the DBT will come from her individual t.  The dbt skills terminology is sometimes referred to in more common terms.  ie:  self time=go to self, self soothe=visualize your happy place,etc... . judging feelings=negative self talk.  It might be a good idea to ask her individual t in the future what the equivalent terminology is for the specific dbt skills.  I hope her t is healing and will be back to the ranch to help your daughter and family very soon.



lbj
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« Reply #38 on: March 26, 2013, 11:34:51 AM »

  Lbj,

You always make me think. The tough love expression comes from my interpretation of reading the book and also a psychologists view point of the type of therapy she felt d13 needed. (she stated a long term rtc using what she called tough love was good for d13).  I am also being influenced by d13 stating she feels bullied and then by the acknowledgement of the staff that on day 1 when she vomited they made her clean it up, no one spoke of how they comforted her, just how the incident happened and they handed her paper towel and asked her to clean it up.  That's where my perceptions are coming from.  Clinical Director is pretty forward and direct as well so that's my perception of the temperment of the program.

I look forward to learning more and understanding more about what her day to day life is like and how she is making progress.
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« Reply #39 on: March 26, 2013, 06:37:07 PM »

don't forget CICI to take care of yourself in all this. This is important for you, so you can stay strong for your dd.

Vivek    
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« Reply #40 on: March 29, 2013, 06:53:44 AM »

I had a reallly involved self exploring post I wrote after our conversation with d13 T (clinical director) on Wednesday. SBTX and I are still in disagreement with her placement.  Basically everyone is telling me I need to keep her there.  I am have questioned my own ego, am I just to proud to admit I'm wrong, my own fears etc... it would be so much easier to agree with him for the sake of our divorce but also for myself because I could stop this incessant feeling and uphill battle of not believing this is the best placement for her.  Am I resistant to this all because I can;t give up control? on and on and on it goes.  T asked bothe stbx and I if we could agree to keep d13 there for a period of time sbtx said yes, I said no.  Besides my uneasiness with the program, I also have no means of paying for 50% of treatment.  Currently it's being paid for out of his trust (very wealthy family) I was just advised I would be expected to sell our house to pay for treatment.  Other divorce garbage I won't bother with anyone here.  Finances aren't the only reason but I would be lying if I didn't admit it plays a part in this process.  I'm going to struggle in a huge way once this divorce is over.  T asked that we not communicate that we do not agree to d13, I agreed I wouldn't want to cause her further distress.  

Enough about me... D13.

I wrote d13 an email giving her a bunch of questions and things I wanted to discuss prior to the therapy call, it was involved and I am not surprised the T said she didn't give it to her it was just too much too soon.  I can understand that and respect they need to guide therapy and know where she is at far better than I do.  I was a bothered though about an incident d13 relayed to me about being taunted in group and called a name, t later told me she was lying.  Not typical for d13 to out and out lie.  So I wanted to discuss it with everyone present and I stated this in the email.  That to build trust I wanted to make sure I understood what had taken place.  T told me she didn't want it disscussed as the incident was in the past (this tuesday).  I would have liked to discuss it, nonetheless I honored t wishes and didn't bring it up or question it. We were told d13 was on suicide watch again per d13 request, t felt this was a manipulative move.  I believe this is the 3 time she has beenon suicide watch since she's been there.  T states the treatment team sees improvements with d13 but didn't share what those improvemente were.  We didn't discuss with t that she told me on tusday that social calls would not be indicated at this time, this was something stbx also wanted to have in place.  I'll have to remember to bring up again today.  Again, I have a problem with no direct communication with d13 and now being told what not to discuss with d13 conflicting information I'm being given about problems d13 is having.  It's a trust issue.  

D13 joined the meeting and gave us an overview of a typical day she sounded bright and upbeat.  She asked for pictures to scrapbook and a scrapbook which I am happy to send, I'm an avid scrapbooker too.  She then got teary as expected saying she hated it and wanted to go home.   At one point she even stated "what do you want me to die here?"  threatening to kill herself.   Those statements don't get me too upset or concerned as I think they are typical manipulations from her and almost to be expected.  I hate to hear her so upset but I expected that.  She was getting very upset and the conversation wasn't productive so the t suggested we end the call so that she can talk with d13.  

When asked about what we could work on within our relationship her dad and I both stated communication, to try to undersatnd and hear from her what she is feeling and thinking.  I expressed that I recognized I needed to learn how to listen to her and acknowledge what she says better.  Therapy with d13 I look forward to most, I have been wanting that since Summer.  She replied why you don't listen anyways.  Referring to my earlier conversation with her on tuesday that she hated it there and wanted to come home.  She of course has not idea I am in conflict with her dad over her placement.  She went on to say "you've made up your minds, your not listening to me".  I asked her to please try not to assume what others were thinking and to listen to what we were saying and to please also express to her dad what she had expressed to me on tuesday about being there.  I think it'simportant for him to hear from her the distressful part too, he only hears her upbeat and not crying.  I think he believes I'm over exaggerating.  

After the conference call I emailed t and stbx stating that I didn't know how much longer it would be right to let d13 to continue to think that I was in agreement and even driving this decision on treatment as it was creating resentment and anger towards me and for her and I to move forward in our relationship we would have to resolve this.  T asked for a conference call with stbx and I today.  sbtx told me he thinks I just need to change my mind and he doesn't see what talking with the t will resolve.  I don't think he can recognize how much research and internal reflection I have done to try to come to terms and to accept this placement.  He thinks it's all about money.  He doesn't even know yet that I got the school to pay for 1/3 of treatment.  He agreed to go to  a couples counselor with me tomorrow so we can work on some communication guidelines and skills.  I can't believe this is where we are together, until d13's last discharge from her last placement he was not so angry and mistrustful of me.  It's hard to feel so hated by him.

I know it's lengthy, I'm trying not to get this post to bogged down with divorce issues, some of that does affect everything else though.  I'll try to update today after conference call.   I tend to be so emotionally charged after these calls I like to give some distance to have clarity in my thinking and words before I post.  

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« Reply #41 on: March 29, 2013, 09:04:29 AM »

CICI

I feel for you... . y stomach just tied in knots reading your post... . I do hope you find a resolution for dd sake and for you too. It must be so hard for her to be so far away... . is there a chance you could go visit her? Maybe that would help relieve your fears.

I am getting ready to run out the door... . taking my older daughter to the doc... . should have left last night but I didn't have the energy... . are you resting enough? I am exhaisted everyday and I am sure you are too... . the stress and worry... . please let us know how your call went... . I feel the divorce is adding to the problem and it would be good to try and separate that part if possible... .

I would also be careful of the manipulation... . my dd is a master at this... . I think it is a strong BPD trait... . maybe not maniputaion but thier illness has them looking at things a certain way... .

got to run... . sending love... .    

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« Reply #42 on: March 29, 2013, 10:55:18 PM »

Just checking to see if you posted yet... . I hope things are good with you and your call went well... . just wanted to let you know I am thinking of you... .
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« Reply #43 on: March 30, 2013, 08:27:30 PM »

Cici,

Just letting you know I am here with you. It is so hard to be trying to care for your dd and cope with the ex and the 'divorce' and all that it involves. You must feel really sad, deeply sad as well as so worried for your dd.

Re 'manipulation' - it is a very common trait within BPD. Well manipulation is how it feels to us, but for he person with BPD it is probably more a survival technique. It is typical for our children to 'divide and conquer' parents. It is a common cause for disagreement between parents of a BPD child.

Similarly, many of us become really hurt when we realise that our children will blatantly tell lies... . in fact they come to believe their lies and we are left bemused when those lies change into something different in the flick of an eyelid.

I understand that you believe that your dd is telling the truth, but based on my experience, I suspect it may be a slanted version of the truth. A version created to achieve a purpose that your dd feels she needs to achieve.

And then your d's T didn't want to revisit an earlier event/experience (re being taunted). This makes sense. It is important that the T focus on what can be achieved, rather than revisit what happened. When we revisit what happened, we are trying to establish and objective 'truth' and this often leads us to want to 'blame' someone or something. This can be non productive. It is important for the T and your dd to focus on what can be done ... . from now on... .

Go gently Cici, this is so hard for you,

Vivek    
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« Reply #44 on: April 09, 2013, 09:23:00 AM »

CICI

I am sorry I have had so much going on in my world... .   I have not heard from you in a while... . please try and update us when you can... .  
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« Reply #45 on: April 10, 2013, 10:10:17 AM »

I am so sorry I haven't updated here.  I have received messages from LBJ, JKN and jellibeans.  They mean a great deal to me that you are all reaching out.  I am simply very very depressed with the currently situation.  I have such respect for LBJ and all you have said, I know you had a great experience at FRR but I do not agree with the treatment at all.  I am being told my daughter is lying to us about incidents in PPC group, then when I wanted to discuss with her t and d13 on therapy call I was told to move past it and it wasn't going to be discussed.  I have serious trust issues.  I want to just go get her unannounced and bring her home to a therapy center that doesn't monitor and restrict our communication.    I have been reluctant to post because I am in such a negative place.  I have no financial means of going to get her, sbtx has restricted all access to cash and credit and I honestly dont' think that moving her in that way is right for her, our family, my long term relationship with her day or respectful to the program.  The program knows I don't want her there and even questioned if I would participate in family therapy calls.  Know I am afraid if I say something they don't like they won't allow me to participate in family therapy.  I have never been in such a living hell, I feel I am losing my own mind.  I can't believe that this is happening.  I dont disagree she needs treatment I just wished I hadn't been "misinformed" so much from FRR.  Thank you for your love and support.
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« Reply #46 on: April 10, 2013, 10:30:49 AM »

Hi Cici,

Thanks for coming back and I'm sorry you are not in a better place.  I think, and I've said it before, that having the support of the family is key to recovery for a pwBPD.  To be supportive of your d's recovery it is important to believe in the program.  If you don't believe in the program and support the work that the program is doing with your daughter how is recovery possible?  If I believed as you do that the program is not what my daughter needs I would pull her out too. I would also have to have in place a program/structure/therapist/support system to put her in when I moved her.

Maybe working on this is where your energy is best spent?  When you find alternatives you believe in perhaps it will be easier for you to be supportive of her treatment.  With a solid plan in place that makes sense for the whole family maybe your soon to be exhusband will be more open minded.

Let us know how we can help you explore options.



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« Reply #47 on: April 10, 2013, 11:14:44 AM »

Thanks LBJ, I am researching treatment options and have contacted some programs here that I am planning on visiting.  Once I have treatment resources and options in place I plan to discuss with FRR and sbtx in hopes of coming to an appropriate transition plan.  Just had a call with t and d13, she sounded very upbeat which makes me grateful. 
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« Reply #48 on: April 10, 2013, 11:23:47 AM »

Wonderful that your d is sounding upbeat.

Here is a thread to give you some information to help in selecting therapy models for pwBPD:

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=198723.0

Keep in mind that adolescent treatment models are adapted from adult treatment models.  Teen group is highly affective generally (not so much dbt group as the drop out rate is higher).
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« Reply #49 on: April 10, 2013, 03:35:51 PM »

Hi Cici, I am sorry to hear how things are going. Your post reminded me of my life not too long ago. There was about a two year period where things were so bad that I felt like I was this big, dark, toxic cloud. I pretty much shut myself off from everyone. I can relate to what you are going through.

I hope things turn around for you soon. I know the first 3 mo. of my son being in an RTC was really hard too. Again, I am really sorry. Wish I had some advice for you, but just know that I, we, are here for you.
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« Reply #50 on: April 10, 2013, 08:16:37 PM »

sending you love Cici,

Vivek        
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« Reply #51 on: April 10, 2013, 10:23:42 PM »

CICI

Thanks for the update... .   I know you have a lot on your mind... .   I have been thinking about you and hoping things were going better... .   please keep us updated and let us know if you find a new place closer to home... .   that might help especially if you can talk with your dd freely.

Please don't isolate yourself... .   sending love your way... .    
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« Reply #52 on: April 17, 2013, 09:00:35 PM »

THANK YOU  jellibeans... .   I am trying no to isolate, there are times I simply feel I am not heard.  Actually, I feel that way most of the time.  So it's easier to stop talking.
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« Reply #53 on: April 17, 2013, 09:09:59 PM »

I hear you... .   going through a lot of the same things right now... .   take care... .   I really hope things are going better for you  
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« Reply #54 on: April 18, 2013, 03:14:48 AM »

Your situation is isolating. It is cruel and a struggle to stay grounded and on top of everything.

Please Cici, continue to speak to us. I try to hear, I want to share with you, I want you to feel supported by me/us here.

Vivek    

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« Reply #55 on: May 18, 2013, 09:30:27 AM »

It's been a long time since I've posted, much has happened and news is good.  We went to Falcon Ridge for a family visit, D13 is doing very well and thanked me for putting her there.  I sobbed in relief and shared with her the fear I've lived with everyday uncertain if she was ok, if this was the right decision, if we had taken this step to early and somehow it would be deterimental to her at such a young age.  Her T. her Dad and I all agreed d13 could come home in June and continue therapy over the summer and transition into highschool at the beginning of the year with the rest of her class.  She is coming home for a visit on Tuesday, I am flying to Utah to escort her back east.  I am nervous and excited about the trip.  I want it to be successful for all of us, most importantly I don't want her to fall back into cutting.  We've discussed rules and parameters for the trip and we are going to focus on family and spending time together.  I am glad I didn't pull her out sooner, not that I didn't want to I did.  As every fiber of my being as her mother was telling me it was not right I was forced to listen to EVERYONE around me tell me that would be far worse for her in the short term and long term.  I still wish Falcon Ridge had explained how restrictive communication was going to be and hadn't "miscommunicated" about being accredited and that DBT was not a focus therapy model for them.  These pieces of information created an immediate distrust in me for the program and a difficult journey turned even more terrifying.  There were many moments I hung on LBNJ's experience and reminded myself this was not an abusive program and she was safe.  That was my fear all along.  Would I have put her there had I fully understood how restrictive the nature of the program was, no I wouldn't have.  I was trying to avoid that at the time.  I am glad she is there now, she is doing much better and will graduate.    I'll continue to post this week as she is home, I expect there to be bumps in the road.  I cannot say enough words of gratitude for the love and support I have found here.  I went silent because I was simply in so much pain I didn't know what to communicate and didn't believe, couldn't believe or didn't want to believe that what we were doing was the right treatment for d13.  Her current pdoc does not agree with the BPD diagnosis but even d13 talks about her struggle with black and white thinking, manipulations etc... .  at the end of the day the diagnosis on a piece of paper isn't as important as her recovery.  I know now I have the strength to go through this again if we ever need to and I won't rescue.  If anyone is reading this post is considering RTC for their child, my best advise is to understand FULLY the restrictive nature of the the program and level of communication and private communication you would have with your child.  This is where I misunderstood.  Falcon is a great program for those that need it.  I now must go pack my bags to meet my d13, can't wait to see her smiling face.



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« Reply #56 on: May 18, 2013, 09:37:57 AM »

Dear CiCi,

So very good to see you here and learn that your dd13 is benefitting from the program she is in. 

I hope and pray that she comes home with the tools and skills she needs to be well. Once they have those tools and skills you can help her be able to help herself.

So proud of you for winning the battle to not rescue her.  I know it was hard for you and you are stronger for it.

Keep us updated on how you are doing and your dd13 as well.



lbjnltx
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« Reply #57 on: May 18, 2013, 09:47:16 AM »

Cici

So good to hear from you... .  I have thought of you often over the last few months. What a journey you have had. Your dd is coming home to vist and you must be so excited to see her. I know the distance has been hard and the lack of communication difficult. I am so happy for you all... .  
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« Reply #58 on: May 18, 2013, 09:50:04 AM »

Thanks jellibeans, I've been reading your posts this a.m. to find out how your dd is doing.  If you decide on another RTC , Falcon is a great program.  I didn't feel that way in the beginning though.  I hope your dd is doing ok today.  I'll continue reading your posts to get up to speed on your journey.
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« Reply #59 on: May 18, 2013, 05:56:32 PM »

I am relieved you are feeling more confidence in the rtc and that the outlook for your dd has improved.

Do stay with us here, your journey with BPD hasn't finished I reckon.

best wishes,

Vivek  
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