So much pain and suffering.

[Depression = 72% of members]

What can I do when there is just so much pain and suffering? When my pwBPD is hurting so much because she feels so deeply that I, and everyone she has ever known has purposefully hurt her, though the offenses she accuses us of are so slight and childish?  When she is crying so hard that she chokes and almost vomits? No words to console or deeds of reparation can seem to heal. What do we do then? When she feels so consistently hopeless that she doesn't even communicate? No talk of suicide... .  no self harm... .  just constant sadness and crying. What now?

[Pugman]

What can I do when there is just so much pain and suffering? When my pwBPD is hurting so much because she feels so deeply that I, and everyone she has ever known has purposefully hurt her, though the offenses she accuses us of are so slight and childish?  When she is crying so hard that she chokes and almost vomits? No words to console or deeds of reparation can seem to heal. What do we do then? When she feels so consistently hopeless that she doesn't even communicate? No talk of suicide... .  no self harm... .  just constant sadness and crying. What now?

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[TigerEye]

Sorry you're having a bad time, sounds like you're feeling the stress of what is a difficult situation to get your head around.

From what I understand, our pwBPD need to know we understand their feelings, they are their feelings whether we agree with the cause of them or not, agreeing/disagreeing with the thoughts is not what is needed here.

Have you read the lessons available here? They give a good explanation of how we can help, as we can not fix anything, only they can do that, but we can stop making it worse.

Keep posting, and read those lessons. It will take time and practice to get it right, and it won't work every time, but don't beat yourself up if it goes wrong, just know what to do if it does.

How are you coping day to day, is it having an effect on your ability to function effectively? Do you have any one there you can share your thoughts with, friends, family? There are so many good people on this site that understand your situation and personally I have found this to be a great comfort in difficult times.

[Pugman]

It's so interesting as I learn more and more about my uBPDw. It seems that she has 2 major influencers in her life, her immediate family, and me. And she alternates sometimes daily on which is idealized versus which is her mortal foe. The saddest part is, that she has hot a point where she has hurt us all so much that we are all done with living in the FOG. I can see how it getting worse helps it get better, but she has spiraled so quickly that she is in a consistent state of despair. I am really all she has left, and she really doubts my love for her. As I am striving to set and keep boundaries, she feels even worse. And the truth is that we all love her and want to help, but only if she gets help.

Yesterday she texted her sister for advice about where to board our dogs. Since her sister didn't respond to the text, but did respond to a "family" email chain, my wife decided to storm over to her sisters house at 2am and attempt to confront her. I was not there, but at home in a daze of What is going on? When my wife comes home, apparently the cops were nearly called, there was some physical altercation and my wife just cried and cried for hours straight. Anything I said was rejected because "I hurt her worse than anyone". I probably got in 5 words of "I'm here, I care, I love you, how can I help?"  This morning... .  still crying. Mass email to her whole family that she cannot be in contact with them anymore, and a note for me that she will be gone when I get home from work. I truly doubt she will be gone. I've been doing this long enough to know her cries for help. I just don't have the strength to help right now. I'm trying to keep myself healthy, and her family rightly so is okay to let her disappear. I have been working very hard on myself and feeling strong in my resolve for who I want to be and what I want in life. I hurt for her, but realize that I can't be her punching bag. I am taking care of me and here for her if she needs me. It's all just so sad. When I truly know that there is so much good and happy in this life, so much to be thankful for, and she can never see the beauty of a sunset or a child's laughter. Nothing I can do unless she wants to change... .  but sad to see nevertheless.

[briefcase]

You can't save her from herself or carry her burden.  Keep your boundaries and validate her feelings (but don't agree with her faulty "facts".

She feels all alone right now.  She's in pain.  Validate those feelings without trying to "fix" them by assuring her that "YES!  I really DO love you!"  Stick with things like, "You sound really lonely and afraid right now."  Or, "I hear a lot of pain coming from you right now."  If she turns the emotional guns onto you, take a time out and let her calm herself down.  

She's doubling down on the drama for sure, and I bet it's worked for her in the past.  Now is the time for you to double down on your skills too.  

Hang in there.  

[Pugman]

Thank you briefcase, very insightful. I will keep plugging away. 

[TigerEye]

She's doubling down on the drama for sure, and I bet it's worked for her in the past.  Now is the time for you to double down on your skills too.

I can see now that that was a tactic that my SO used to draw the caretaker side of me out, and it worked, I didn't know any better at the time. Since she had her major episode last year, that behavior has all but disappeared, peculiar at first as she seemed to be in more distress generally than ever before. Yet I can see now that she no longer needed to deploy that one as she had me hooked by that point.

[boatman]

It's so interesting as I learn more and more about my uBPDw. It seems that she has 2 major influencers in her life, her immediate family, and me. And she alternates sometimes daily on which is idealized versus which is her mortal foe.

Hi Pugman-

This is such an interesting observation. My exBPDgf does the same thing and has actually admitted it herself. She has only let me around her family a few times, and has told me she needs to "keep the compartments of her life separated." She said one reason is that she acts differently around her family than she does around me. Her family is extremely dysfunctional so I can see why she would act differently to fit in with them and then with me. Maybe it depends on whom she most fears being abandoned by? What do you think?

[Pugman]

TigerEye,

It is fascinating how they can really dig out that caretaker side. I have been trying so hard to not give in, to let her know I care, I love her, but I will not let her abuse me. It used to feel like I was sending mixed signals, but I've learned that I just have defined my values so clearly for myself that no matter what happens, they are always ther to fall back on.

Boatman,

I agree completely about the fears of abandonment. My uBPDw is so good at hiding the abandonment side of her that I often question whether BPD is really the issue, she has formally been diagnosed with PTSD, and anxiety. But when she has a major meltdown like last night, I can start to see the frightening levels of fear of abandonment that she carries. Oddly though, her family loves me. They are totally and utterly dysfunctional. She has one sister that I used to be unable to wear red around she cause she would think its blood and scream until I was gone. All of her siblings are very type A personalities, and her father as well. None of them really believe in mental illness and think people just need to be tougher... .  not ideal for a pwBPD. The dynamic is really interesting because sometimes with her family she devalues only a specific person, and sometimes it's the whole group. I also think its a fairly common trait for pwBPD to morph into a certain personality to conform with the people they are with. I see my wife do it sometimes, and its scary. Interestingly enough, after 4 years of marriage, and many, many difficult times, she has become very closed, not to me, but society... .  she doesn't work, and now, she rarely even leaves the house. Her fits seem to become like microbursts followed by exhaustion. But when she does finally go out and socialize, I can tell that she is out of practice morphing and she freaks out that someone won't like her... .  even begins shaking uncontrollably. I know she has to have some extreme comorbid conditions, but I can't for the life of me convince her to get back into therapy, she says she'll do it, then when it comes time she "gets sick".  I have truly just had to learn to always expect the unexpected and take care of me. Sometimes I just get so sad to see her suffer so

[boatman]

Hi Pugman-

I know what it's like to watch someone suffer and have no healthy family to rely on. I also know what it's like to desperately long for some consistent behavior on their part and to realize that the only consistency is being let down repeatedly. So I'm incredibly sorry for what you are dealing with on a daily basis.

I also think its a fairly common trait for pwBPD to morph into a certain personality to conform with the people they are with.

I know EXACTLY what you are talking about here. I call it the chameleon effect. My exBPDgf has even talked with me about it. Her family's communication style is completely dysfunctional. They act like they are each in a plexiglass box with a microphone inside connected to a speaker on the outside. They just walk around making LOUD announcements about themselves but never really hear anything anyone else in the family says. SOMETIMES they might hear the words but NONE of them can understand the emotions anyone else is expressing. All they really express now is anger. So, my ex has explained to me that she is so used to "communicating" this way (without regard for the other's feelings) that she feels like she can't be herself around me because I won't let her talk to me the way her family talks. She says that the energy inside her then builds up until she rages. This all makes perfect sense to me. I think that because she is a chameleon she tries to conform to my way of being when she's around me but that doesn't work for her emotionally because she has no idea how to communicate her feelings in a healthy way that isn't abusive toward me.

She has also told me that she simultaneously needs me to have a model to "morph" into, and resents me because she feels like I'm trying to tell her who to be. Unfortunately when I ask her about herself and who she is she can't/won't talk about it. No-win situation for me and her.

[Pugman]

Those are really interesting observations boatman. It actually has raised an interesting question I find myself frequently confronted with. If a pwBPD really only responds to a very mindful, compassionate, caring person, and rages whenever they are confronted with "tough love", how do I respond or deal with it when her family who only know "tough love" are truly trying to help her by being aggressive and direct? They start thinking (and I have a hard time arguing the fact) that I am enabling my wife's behaviors because I am trying to validate her feelings. Of course they don't understand the boundaries I have set, nor have they studied or even tried to understand BPD because they think it isn't real, and when I bring it up they tell me that "she's just a difficult person, we all are."  I get caught in crossfire sometimes.

[waverider]

I used to have a lot of this with my partner and her family. The dynamic here is triangulation and splitting. Needing both rescuers and persecutors in her life with the roles interchangeable, so that she can be perpetually be the victim, hence not responsible for any dysfunctionality.

The trick here is not to play either of those roles when projected on you. Over the top sympathy (as opposed to appropriate support and empathy) will cement you as the rescuer to enable her to paint her family as persecutors. But neither do you overly defend the family when this happens, that just triggers ganging up/invalidation/abandonment thoughts... .  You have to stay solidly neutral.

Similarly dont bite the bait when painted as the persecutor.

I think the term is to defeat the triangle you step into the center.

If you obviously get on with her family, that will make her uncomfortable and may try to split you against each other, to make you go back to playing opposing roles.

These roles are necessary to enable her to project her issues/blame/responsibilities etc, hence avoiding the need to face them.

By the way one validation trap that is easy to fall into is when they say XYZ hates me etc, it is tempting to say no they dont etc, trying to soothe. But what you are actually saying is you are wrong, I dont believe you, that is in effect invalidating. Defeating what you are trying to achieve

[waverider]

Those are really interesting observations boatman. It actually has raised an interesting question I find myself frequently confronted with. If a pwBPD really only responds to a very mindful, compassionate, caring person, and rages whenever they are confronted with "tough love", how do I respond or deal with it when her family who only know "tough love" are truly trying to help her by being aggressive and direct? They start thinking (and I have a hard time arguing the fact) that I am enabling my wife's behaviors because I am trying to validate her feelings. Of course they don't understand the boundaries I have set, nor have they studied or even tried to understand BPD because they think it isn't real, and when I bring it up they tell me that "she's just a difficult person, we all are."  I get caught in crossfire sometimes.

Families like this cause so much damage. You cannot allow yourself to be influenced by their attitude. Boundaries and Acceptance is what you need. They dont have boundaries, they have denial. Their version of boundaries is to try to force control... They are actually demands, and as you are probably aware dont work.

Your Boundaries are your defenses to protect you, with actions you can take. They should not be an attempt to control your partner.

An example take the basic one about verbal abuse:

A failed demand:

Them  YOU ARE A &**(*&

You  I will not put up with you yelling at me

Them  If I say you are a ^&* I will

You  Stop that I will not have that language in my house

Them &^(*( you

You  ^&* you too

They or You  walk out slamming the door, They conclude their abuse was justified as you were too--Its all your fault, you end up wound up like a spring achieving nothing

A Boundary:

Them  YOU ARE A ^&*&*((

You  I will not stay in an abusive atmosphere

Them *(&%

You calmly leave before getting agitated, go do something enjoyable eleswhere

Them %^&**(but whos listening)

You  calm, getting on with life

Them left with the anger, passing it to you didnt work, having to own it, eventually realizing not a satifactory action and not worth it

Repeat procedure each and everytime.

With the boundary example you are not demanding they stop being abusive, you are showing you will not receive it. What they do about it is up to them

[Pugman]

Wow waverider, that is very informative information! Obviously something that I will need a lot of practice and study to understand.

Staying solidly neutral and going to the center of the triangle are such interesting ideas, and so different than what I feel we are taught so frequently in human relations.  I can see how much we really have to learn to understand this disorder. Even the whole idea of invalidating can be so tricky, because some of the most minor and innocent words can totally be twisted and turned. I've read the posts on invalidation and still have so much to practice and gain from them.

Thank you so much for such good, specific examples.

[waverider]

so different than what I feel we are taught so frequently in human relations.  I can see how much we really have to learn to understand this disorder.

That is because nom human relations are between regular people where calm logic usually works. This is not the case with pwBPD.

The accidental invalidating while trying to soothe and validate is quite difficult, as it is a fine line.

If in doubt less is more

Bottom line, do your best and dont stress if you get it wrong, you will always get another chance to have a go at it