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VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?" Parental alienation is when a parent allows a child to participate or hear them degrade the other parent. This is not uncommon in divorces and the children often adjust. In severe cases, however, it can be devastating to the child. This video provides a helpful overview.
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Author Topic: I am extremely paranoid... possible reasons  (Read 1573 times)
Maryiscontrary
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« on: March 17, 2013, 09:56:19 AM »

Now this is not disowned, but I am looking at this like a mechanic.

I have this feeling that people are out to hurt me. That is, I get painful interactions with people. Did the chicken or egg come first, I don't know.

First, I feel people try to take what I have, and secondly, I think they try to destroy me because of envy of some pathological level.

I cannot reality test if this is true or not. All I know is that I can bond extremely well, and then I get exhausted and retreat and have to keep arms length distance.

So there are three components I can think up that are reasons for this paranoia

1. People try to take what is mine.

2. Narcissists try to destroy me

3. social interaction are satisfying for a while, then I quickly tire out from exhaustion.

I would like input.
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Surnia
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« Reply #1 on: March 17, 2013, 10:57:42 AM »

Hi maryiscontrary

interesting topic.

I can relate with parts of it. Sometimes I have also the fear: "They are taking me something away".

I can relate also with #3 from your list.

For me it happens when I do not watch my needs and boundaries or when I have to much social SHOULDS and MUSTS.
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Maryiscontrary
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« Reply #2 on: March 17, 2013, 12:21:11 PM »

Thanks for your response, Surnia.

I feel like a very vulnerable person. I feel like I have a propensity to really get injured, and these injuries set me way back and take forever to heal. I feel people really want to take from me. I feel that I am a target for sociopaths, who want to destroy me for the narcissistic injury I cause and who also want to take from me, ignoring long term rewards for short term pay offs.

There are very few friends and family that do not cause overt injury.

The question is, why am I so vulnerable? I feel like I am an emotional hemophiliac. You hear about those people who can't feel pain, and this results in huge tissue injury because they can't feel the feedback. I feel something along this line.
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Phoenix.Rising
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« Reply #3 on: March 17, 2013, 01:34:49 PM »

Hi Maryiscontrary, 

I want to offer my support.  I have had the feeling of people wanting to 'take from me', and that is a very uncomfortable feeling.  I believe it stems from a problem with trust.  It is hard for me to really trust others on an intimate level if the trust in myself is lacking. 

Learn to trust Mary first (maybe by working on solid boundaries, like Surnia mentioned, to protect yourself), and this will build trust in others.  It will also likely attract people who are more trustworthy. 

I believe it helps to take time in getting to know others.  My pattern has been to jump into something 'serious' before I really know who I'm dealing with.  I can pretend that the interaction won't affect me, but it always does, even if the contact is limited. 

This is not easy.  So, I end up in situations where pain results, even when I don't really want that, if that makes sense.  I guess part of me wants it, though, because that is what feels familiar.  We are worthy of good things, though, but we have to believe it and 'act as if'.  Hope that helps.  Be good to you.   Smiling (click to insert in post)
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Maryiscontrary
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« Reply #4 on: March 17, 2013, 06:01:49 PM »

Thanks guys. I concur with your thoughts. Thanks again very much. Just doing what I am doing, erecting fort Knox boundaries.
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MammaMia
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« Reply #5 on: March 17, 2013, 06:45:42 PM »

Maryiscontrary

 

Sounds to me like you have been badly hurt in the past.  Is that true?
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Maryiscontrary
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« Reply #6 on: March 17, 2013, 07:16:08 PM »

Yes, this is correct. I am a vulnerable person, due to slow emotional processing and have been an easy target in the past.
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« Reply #7 on: March 17, 2013, 07:46:27 PM »

Hi Mary,

Who do you trust?
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Maryiscontrary
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« Reply #8 on: March 17, 2013, 08:39:31 PM »

Again, I thank all of you. I have friends at varying levels of trust. I trust many parts of myself. I trust one family member, an elderly aunt. I have to really build boundaries that shut out everybody else to that of arms length. I get along with many people. I just don't trust them.

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« Reply #9 on: March 17, 2013, 09:09:25 PM »

How to expand your circle of trust? Your aunt? Her friends? Who does she trust? Your other friends of varying trust? The ones you trust more... .  who do they trust? Start small. Build out.
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« Reply #10 on: March 17, 2013, 09:36:22 PM »

Relationships take time to build, trust takes even longer. Bonding (especially quick bonds) does not equate to trust.

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« Reply #11 on: March 17, 2013, 10:04:34 PM »

Hey mary, you are not paranoid you are just hypervigilant. You have reason to be wary of others... .  especially men, after being involved with a BPD and having narcissistic father and brother. I am in therapy twice a week and feel better than I did when I was ranting and raving several weeks ago... .  Laugh out loud (click to insert in post). I have a narcissistic mother and sister and have been involved with a BPD women... .  

I have been taking my dog to the dog park... .  and if I sense a woman start to mill around me... .  I start to panic and feel like I am being targeted... .  reasonable brain tells me it's most likely a nice single woman looking to make chat with a fellow animal lover, but emotional mind tells me she is looking to manipulate me in to something, or that she is "targeting me"... .  senses my vulnerability.

So my curse, is that anybody who is friendly enough to want to talk to me... .  gets ignored... .  can't even look in their direction. It's a huge dog park though, and no reason for these women to come around me way off in the corner.

I don't think the rigid fort knox boundaries are serving me very well... .  I feel lonely, misunderstood, and vulnerable. By depriving myself of contact with healthier trustworthy people I am depriving myself of the positive social mirroring that I want and need.

Im sorry Mary... .  i feel your pain... .   I'm just trying to accept what I am feeling and try to take it easy on myself and all the "what ifs". Remember when you were young and you wern't afraid of anything? That's called healthy narcissism... .  something I am lacking in right now
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MammaMia
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« Reply #12 on: March 18, 2013, 12:50:20 AM »

Maryiscontrary

Mary, please tell me why you feel so vulnerable and distrustful?  Is it because you open your heart to others and are taken advantage of?  Or is it because you are afraid to open your heart to anyone for fear of being hurt?  

You also mentioned having a slow thought process... .  does this mean it is difficult for you to make decisions, or perhaps are you over-analyzing everything?  I am not sure what you mean.

You know, sometimes people, even those in our own family, can be mean and hurtful unintentionally.  Other times we misinterpret what they are saying, causing ourselves pain.

People who cannot be trusted are frightening.  I am sorry you are struggling with this, but we are glad you are here.  Can you fill us in on the details?

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Maryiscontrary
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« Reply #13 on: March 18, 2013, 05:10:05 AM »

Wow, thanks guys. For the thought provoking responses.

OTH

For instance, with my aunt, this old Texas baptist  culture is very different from mine. Her group of friends are basically like a bunch of aunties... .  I known them all of my life. But they are dying at a rapid clip, and are fundamentalist. So, I bite my lip, and realize that these are just different worlds. Because so many people have died or burnt out around me, I have to limit contact with people who are high risk. I have been to so many funerals.

It is like there is this barrier. Unless, I put on my dr. Doolittle  alter ego, take the initiative, reach out and find common ground, it is like I am galaxies apart. People do not realize how much work I put into trying to relate to them.

I do not buy into so called mainstream church religion (money grubbing), I do not buy into any of the mainstream media (soviet style propaganda), I do not buy into the acquisitive debt ridden American lifestyle. So when these people start talking about these things, I find I have nothing really in common, unless I forcibly find ground to be social. If I buy into mainstream dogma that gets spewed forth at me by people I try to make common ground with, I will get destroyed.

Clearmind

The long lasting bonds are the ones that have tried to destroy me. Almost without exception. I do cherish these exceptions. But heavy interactions exhaust me. I feel overwhelming empathy, and then the switch turns off from fatigue. This appears to be a push pull. I have really tried to be honest about this with these loved ones.

But even then, I must maintain some distance, so I do not get fleas from those I trust most.

Stoic and mamma

Yes, I think that those manipulative narcissistic asss have something to do with it. my god, there are so many of them. I'll talk to people. I'll socialize. I inhibit my jaw dropping outrage and astounded response.  Then I run out of stamina, and I will become recluse.

I think mechanically it is 2 things. First, I do not process emotional data efficiently. It is like trying to write with your left hand, when you are right handed. Very slow and exhausting.  I can stay in very loaded situations, like somebody dying and me needing to handle hospital, hospice, and funeral arrangements. But I dissociate, and I am left reeling for a very, very long time.

So I am loyal, unlike a lot of people, and will stick by you, and have emapthy, but it damages me so that I cannot function well overall. And people abuse this, I have found, without even realizing it, and I have to keep arms length.

So my perception, because people send me reeling, is that it is damaging.

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Maryiscontrary
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« Reply #14 on: March 18, 2013, 08:38:18 AM »

Again, thanks so much for caring, guys. I am really honored by it.
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Phoenix.Rising
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« Reply #15 on: March 18, 2013, 11:37:14 AM »

It is OK for us to take care of our needs first, regardless of what other people think or feel.  If others cannot deal with that, then they are probably not the people we need in our lives. 

Somewhere along the way, I got the idea that my emotional needs were unimportant and I needed to sacrifice myself to 'serve' others.  This leaves me depleted and empty, with nothing to give.  When I take care of me first, I am then able to be emotionally available for others.

If someone is healthy enough, they will likely understand your need for space and respect any vulnerability you may be feeling.  Taking baby steps helps.   Smiling (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #16 on: March 18, 2013, 01:01:07 PM »

Mary

So glad to hear from you!

I think Phoenix has some valid points.  People have come to rely on you too much.  This is not uncommon when dealing with older people.  I doubt they realize the impact their "needs" have on you.  :)id someone close to you just pass away?  

That in itself is a hugely traumatic event.  You need to say... .  "Hey what about Mary?".  You give so much of yourself that you sound like you are overwhelmed and on the verge of emotional burnout.  Been there, done that.  The more you give the more people want from you.

You sound very intelligent and probably have a good grasp of what is happening.  There is a wonderful word in the English language that is very helpful to those of us in this position.  It is "NO".  The hard part is the guilt that goes along with saying no.  Have you considered seeing a therapist to help you learn about setting boundaries and depression?  There is nothing wrong with taking time for yourself after an emotional trauma.  In fact people NEED to do that to come to terms with the loss, anger, and fear that accompanies trauma.  It starts the healing process.

I worked at a very stressful job for 43 years.  As a manager, I was everything to everyone and the work just kept building and building.  I had been there so long that everyone perceived me as invincible.  I could do anything... .  no matter how unreasonable the request.  I cancelled vacations to help others at work or to allow others to be off for things they needed to do.  Always was the one to sacrifice for the good of the others.  Put in way too many hours at work. I reached a point where I was mentally and physically burned out.  I asked for help repeatedly and was told... .  I could handle it, the department did not have the funding for an assistant.  So I retired.  Felt like I was released from prison!  

That was over 2 years ago.  There was a huge reorganization within our department when I left, and my duties were split between 5 people.  

My point is, sometimes we HAVE to standup for ourselves and our wellbeing.  Please consider talking to someone or even attending a support group.  NAMI is fabulous and free.  Check it out online.

Take care Mary.  Please let us know how things are going.  Most of all, please know you are not alone.  We are here 24/7 and we do care.

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Maryiscontrary
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« Reply #17 on: March 18, 2013, 01:10:34 PM »

Thanks much guys. I have very strong boundaries, now. I have lost a tremendous amount over the last 7 years. It is loss and trauma stacked upon loss and trauma. Many losses. I suppose this is the grieving process, and it was delayed and I am paying for it now.

I have the causes and conditions set in place to make things better. I am not depressed. I am paranoid. But I am aware of this.  But it is taking a really, really long time to get traction.

Again, thanks to all of the people on this thread for your compassion.
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MammaMia
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« Reply #18 on: March 18, 2013, 01:45:56 PM »

Mary

Loss upon loss can cause PTSD and paranoia is a factor there.  Might be something to also consider.

I am very glad you have a plan in place to care for yourself.  Hang in there.

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« Reply #19 on: March 18, 2013, 03:25:18 PM »

The long lasting bonds are the ones that have tried to destroy me. Almost without exception. I do cherish these exceptions. But heavy interactions exhaust me. I feel overwhelming empathy, and then the switch turns off from fatigue. This appears to be a push pull. I have really tried to be honest about this with these loved ones.

Mary can you explain what you mean about “overwhelming empathy”?

When friends are telling you a sad story or something that is concern them – what is you thinking as they are relaying it?

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Maryiscontrary
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« Reply #20 on: March 18, 2013, 05:03:21 PM »

Clearmind, I think it is a dysregulation. I can feel other's suffering and joy acutely. I feel others contempt and shame and indifference. But feeling that suffering of others, this exhausts me. I have a good friend who is a therapist who never speaks of her anguish. But I see it. And I try to handle her with care.

I can detect sudden shifts in my clients sentiments, even if it just in email, and I rush to quickly respond to it, so I have a huge retention rate.

But I have felt for all of my life the switch go off, not unlike how a muscle spasm will stop you in your tracks. I have this back up mode where I go into actor mode. Clearmind, it's like a piece of my personality literally breaks off into outer space. Likely, it is a fatiguing circuit, just like lactic acid is with fatigued muscle.

So I have this backup actor mode to give the appearance of a cohesive personality to others. I have cognitive memory of my morals and values, of how I felt for a person. But the empathy just zaps out temporarily, and I have to keep the monster inside in control. Mind you, I am not shamed or anything. But the empathy regulation is unstable.

So maybe when I say that people are out to hurt me, maybe it is so painful for me to interact, because keeping a cohesive self is a tremendous amount of work.
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MammaMia
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« Reply #21 on: March 18, 2013, 05:29:24 PM »

Mary, do you take any medication for anxiety?  This will often reduce the extreme sensitivity you mention as well as to curb panic attacks, while still allowing you to feel everything on a more tolerable or comfortable level.  

Have you discussed this with your therapist friend?  She would be a great source of information.
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Maryiscontrary
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« Reply #22 on: March 18, 2013, 05:50:55 PM »

No, I do not have anxiety in the common sense. I don't need anxiety medication. Plus, severe drug abuse is endemic in my family. My mother took 20-30 junkie perscription pills of various flavors a day.

I am just saying it is painful to interact a lot of the time. My therapy friend is very well aware for a number of years these tendencies. I mean, these core experiences run through the paternal family tree like leprosy. You can go back 4 generations, even with out the environmental influence and see we are all like this. However, I believe I am the only one to really look at it mechanically, without shame. There are "hardware" issues, and "software" ones.

Again thanks.
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« Reply #23 on: March 18, 2013, 07:06:35 PM »

Healthy relating in an emotional sense; includes the need to have an autonomous sense of self as well as the need to be emotionally connected to another/other person. These can cause us to be in conflict - switch between abandonment and engulfment fears (push/pull).

Does the “actor” mode feel like it protects you? Dissociating is a protection mechanism. Do you feel you need to protect? If so, what?

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« Reply #24 on: March 18, 2013, 07:33:50 PM »

I have the causes and conditions set in place to make things better. I am not depressed. I am paranoid. But I am aware of this.  But it is taking a really, really long time to get traction.

Mary! You aren't paranoid... .  you are hypervigilant. People who are "being paranoid", have no idea that they are "being paranoid". Paranoia is completely irrational... .  if you were paranoid, you wouldn't think there was anything wrong with your thinking. The fact that you have awareness of your thoughts being skewed... .  means you aren't being paranoid. So +1 for Mary there... .  

Am I right?

My T always makes sure that I know that I am not being paranoid, I am being hypervigilant... .  I have good reason to be protective of myself right now... .  I am vulnerable, and my nervous system recognizes this and is protecting me... .  the less I fight it, the less it upsets me. Anxiety is good... .  it helps protect us from harmful circumstances.


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Maryiscontrary
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« Reply #25 on: March 19, 2013, 07:45:13 AM »

Wow, I am really amazed by the care displayed here. Thanks. Really.

Clearmind, I get overstimulated. I have done Vipassana and insight practice for a long, long time, it it lessens it, but honestly I think it is a developmental aspie trait. Hardware issues. So either I act all meltdown like, or I go into the "buddy love" dr. Doolittle alter ego mode. It's like working on a backup generator. It is much less power, but it keeps operations kinda going. And where I grew up in a vicious narcissistic environment, where it was like standing in a dissertation defense every day,  it probably kept me from suicide.

Stoic, paranoia is nothing but hypervigilance 2.0, with repeated trauma. And paranoid schizophrenia is paranoia 3.0, with even more trauma and stress.

See, this is why this board is so important. I am paranoid, and I am becoming aware of it, because I look at it and try to analyse it. I am very defensive, and cultivate every aspect of my life protecting myself.  Like hoarding money. Like keeping aspects of my personal life very private from my friends and family.
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« Reply #26 on: March 19, 2013, 10:06:53 AM »

Mary,

I appreciate your insight and cogent explanations.  What you are saying makes sense to me; you do a good job conveying in clear terms what dysregulation is like.  I appreciate that because I believe a lot of people struggle to understand what is happening internally when this is taking place in a friend or loved one.  Thank you, and keep up the good work!  For me, awareness can be the beginning of change if I am willing.  Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #27 on: March 19, 2013, 12:12:51 PM »

Maryiscontrary,

your struggle to be authentic is not lost on these boards.  

maybe there is nothing "wrong" with hyper-vigilance and oversensitivity when you have been through a years long/decades long war.  you are a hero, to have come through what you have. you have been dodging bullets, ducking bombs and seeing the enemy everywhere.

it takes TIME to get free of that wartime vigilance, IMHO. you hear bullets whiz past where there are none.

Yours are war wounds. they need time and attention to heal. Yes, things/people now trigger you and they likely will for a long time. nothing "wrong" with that.

you are a veteran of the trenches-that's all.

My son was deployed to Afghanistan for a year. He said the hardest thing to come back to was the peace and quiet and Nothing happening!

He said all the returning soldiers kept looking around, over their shoulders and sat facing a door-all the time. Unable to relax, unable to just chill... .  unable to sleep.

They continually looked for the next attack, maybe that's where you are at. Expecting the attack?

keep doing for YOU... .  to heck with ANY one else.

GL
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Maryiscontrary
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« Reply #28 on: March 19, 2013, 12:13:45 PM »

Thanks much.

Really.
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MammaMia
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« Reply #29 on: March 19, 2013, 03:49:08 PM »

Mary

Has Vipassana and other types of meditation helped?  Since this appears to be a hereditary form of

hypervigilance, does it have a diagnosis?
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« Reply #30 on: March 19, 2013, 08:02:57 PM »

Dear Mommamia,

I would say hypervigilance is environmental, but the extreme nervousness and emotional issues are definitely very strong traits that have actually been documented in the paternal family tree. The aspie comes definitely from my mothers side.

Yes, these forms of meditation have helped, but man, I have been doing these attempts for 14 years. It took getting off gluten to really reap the real rewards. Autoimmune issues.
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« Reply #31 on: March 20, 2013, 10:04:02 PM »

Excerpt
People do not realize how much work I put into trying to relate to them. 

This is your feelings though. There is no way they should or would know. Is socializing difficult for you? Does it make you feel too vulnerable? What makes you feel less vulnerable?
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« Reply #32 on: March 21, 2013, 07:32:10 AM »

No, they shouldn't. But there is a tremendous amount people do take for granted, and because most are unaware, because by baseline it is much easier, I have to pick up the slack. Over and over. It is very invalidating, but somebody has to be the grownup, the big man.

I find it gets exhausting. I just don't operate in the realm of mainstream. In my world, the simple rules exist. You stand by your loved ones, you work hard. You don't steal. You don't screw people over. You adhere to social contract that are the foundation of operational societies. I hold up my end of the bargain. My emotional processing does not allow for complicated scheming second or third order thinking. This, OTH, makes me an easy mark for sociopaths, and their ilk.

Also, people lie to themselves. They may think they are telling the truth, but they are so unaware, that they too, are unreliable. Gullible for opinion manipulation by sociopaths.

So I am a vulnerable person. I expect words and actions to match up, and they don't.
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« Reply #33 on: March 21, 2013, 11:52:33 AM »

Hey Mary,

I read a  workshop article on here about values that really helped me.

It talks about how finding people who share core values (e.g. your idealism).

And being more flexible about personal values... .  

For instance, I think that lying to your close partner or friend is wrong! I think being nurturing and supportive to your close friend or partner is right! Of course, this is black and white thinking... .  but supposedly that's okay when it comes to "core values".

Personal values are more like: I think tatooing the body is wrong. I think that reality tv shows pollute peoples' minds... .  etc... .  These are values I can be a bit more flexible on when choosing a partner or a friend... .  If they have a tattoo... .  but we share the same core values... .  then I can be more comfortable being close with this person... .  "letting them in" so to speak.

Another thing is... .  that I need to listen to my instincts about people... .  I can tell who is unhealthy for me just by feelings in my gut. My therapist is helping me to recognize the sensations in my body to know when I am around somebody who is potentially harmful for me. It helps me to recognize how my body feels around my therapist or a close trusted friend... .  and how it feels around someone I suspect has a PD.

Since I have a lot of these people in my life... .  (people with PD behavior) it is getting a lot easier for me. I can reduce the uncomfortable feelings in my body... .  by erecting boundaries. Once I have the relationship under control... .  then I don't get the uncomfortable feelings, unless something is fishy with the relationship.

Granted, right now my nervous system could be malfunctioning... .  but I don't care because it is keeping me safe.

Positive memories are starting to come back to me... .  the time I was in spain with four lovely friends, and was away from my N family... .  good childhood memories... .  etc. All the stuff that was pushed out of my head, or left as an idealized past... .  is coming back to me and helping me remember what it feels like to RELAX and feel a part of the social consciousness or universal consciousness... .  etc.

Well, 2 months ago I may have been more advice-giving... .  and now I am just telling you about myself and will let you draw your own conclusions... .  Hopefully one day, I can be as supportive and make other people feel as good as some of the veterans have made me feel on here... Right now, all I can do is commiserate.

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« Reply #34 on: March 22, 2013, 06:54:39 AM »

Stoic, I appreciate you taking the time to write. I very much understand this sort of flexibility.

However, there are boundaries I must adhere by because the stimulus is just too noxious. Understand too, that I am healing from PTSD. My ex became very dangerous, and I had compassion because I knew he was in total agony, and my brother did things with this situation that risked my safety. And the tremendous losses before that.

I woke up screaming in the middle of the night for almost 6 months. It would have been much worse without the meditation practices.

The small things I never sweat, stoic, but I have been around so much non compassionate abject ass behavior, I absolutely cannot stand to be around people who do not have their ~ together. Or are really trying. But I do not sweat the small stuff.

The paranoia is, I believe, is an artifact of the PTSD.
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« Reply #35 on: March 22, 2013, 12:34:03 PM »

Mary

It sounds to be like you know exactly what is causing your "hypervigilance"... .  

My son has PTSD.  It is fraught with anxiety, fear, and paranoia, flashbacks and nightmares.  I can see why boundaries are so important to you. He is the same way.  He needs to control his environment and who he lets into his life.  Anyone who has treated him badly is out of his life.  He will avoid them, and have absolutely no contact.  They cease to exist to him. 

Another factor is forgiveness.  Once you forgive them in your own mind for being cruel and

insensitive, it is so much easier to just make them disappear from your life.  There is no reason to

think about them anymore... .  

The absence of pain is a wonderful thing.   Avoidance is the key.
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« Reply #36 on: March 23, 2013, 09:39:51 AM »

Dear Mommamia,

You nailed it. I think you understand fully the perspective now. I appreciate that.

Let me tell you, even my attorney is getting outraged. He is contempt of court just two weeks after the agreed judgement.  I am dealing with this crap yesterday. He is very delusional and vert vulnerable and I have to go for legal decapitation because he is being such an idiot. His attorney and my attorney are outraged beyond words. His attorney said he was crazy and looked very stressed. He needs to be in the f... .  ing hospital, under observation and sedated. I believe he is an danger to himself and others, and nobody would help me get him help.



This a beyond belief. His life would totally be in the toilet without me. I caught a falling knife, that's what I did. Totally invalidating. Totally insulting. I mean, it's one thing to not be appreciated. It is another thing to gravely harm somebody who did nothing to you, but looked after your back.

The world is evil. I am not saying this is correct. I think people are . Mommamia. They will turn on you and rip your face off. Nobody can be trusted to do the right thing. I have to monitor everything so that more disaster does not ensue.

I am not saying this is entirely right, but this is how far I have been harmed, and most people around me do not realize how much damage it did. They really, really don't get it.
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« Reply #37 on: March 23, 2013, 11:52:54 AM »

Woah... .  

Okay Mary... .  

You should be happy to know that it is your depression that is making you look at the world and other people through such dark colored glasses.

I think it is positive that you are aware of your emotions, and how emotionally damaged you are at the hands of others. You are clearly a smart gal, so how can you use this self-awareness you have to your advantage?

You are focusing on the negative... .  instead of thinking about all the people in the world that will screw you over. Think about people like Mommmamia, gina louise, clearmind... .  do you think any of these people have the capacity to screw you over?

You might be right that a lot of people do not share the same core values... .  and are willing to hurt people that help them. This is not neccesarily cruelty, but more a survival mechanism that emotionally undercooked people take due to the conditioning of their surroundings and genetics.

I would suggest that you focus on people you admire, respect, and love. If you do not know any people like this. Then get a dog.

Dog's are really therapeutic, and they really pick up on our emotions and are a good practice for more complicated relationships.

Like Cesar says... .  if you stay "calm and confident" the dog will respect you and follow your lead... .  if you are "anxious and fearful", well then the dog might try to take charge.

Avoid being a victim, by aiming for calm confidence. You are probably right about a lot of things Mary... .  but do you really want all of this negativity to continue overriding the positive in your life?

How can you let this stuff go, and get in to a good mode of thinking again?

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« Reply #38 on: March 23, 2013, 06:13:48 PM »

This is very kind of you, stoic, and and deeply, deeply appreciate your efforts at a well thought out response. I really do.

But I don't think you grasp the severity of the situation. I thought this person was going to kill me. I had to hide out at a friends house for a week during my divorce 3 weeks ago because he the past stalking. This is not being negative. This stress, stacked on top of everything else, has caused a snap. So with very, very much due respect, I just don't think you undertand.

First, I need to be away from sitations that harm me, and when I can get stable, I can heal. I am having to jack with this stuff, and as Mommamia very astutely said, I need to bein a place where I can forget. Dealing with legal issues, and criminal, not civil, issues it just festering this thing.

I apologize for freaking people out, but I opened this thread to express unedited thoughts. I am feeling better this afternoon. I do thank everyone. Man, I have grown so much a year of being here.

Thanks to everyone again.
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« Reply #39 on: March 23, 2013, 08:59:18 PM »

I'm glad you feel better.  Peace to you.
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« Reply #40 on: March 24, 2013, 07:59:21 AM »

Thanks much, I very much appreciate the people on this board.
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« Reply #41 on: March 24, 2013, 08:56:42 AM »

Mary, I had no idea your story held so much trauma. Paranoia, it sounds like you have many many reasons. You have developed a tremendous insight into life. Was that there before the pwBPD was in your life? You haven't been freaking me out, rather it has given me much thought as you share your questions and understandings. In particular your statement that people lie to themselves and even though they think they are telling the truth they are still unreliable.  Idea I have never considered that but it rang so true for me. Not only did I perpetuate my XBPDh lies in this manner to others but it is now something I want to be aware of as I consider what others say to me. Much peace to you.
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« Reply #42 on: March 24, 2013, 10:46:30 AM »

Cumulous, there has always been PD people in my life, up until now. So I wouldnt know. Seriously, most people cannot think for themselves. They go with the herd, which can be very dysfunctional, and do what they are told.

I mean, it is so easy, and commonplace, just look at how CNN manipulates public opinion. Or religion. Now, I am not talking about private spirituality, but the manipulation of public policy. Or marketing. How did Apple and Harley Davidson come to dominate the markets, with overpriced gadgets that are good, but not the best in the marketplace? I mean, I study these tactics with my own business.

To my eyes, I see false and synthetic everywhere. That is, my BS detector is always going off. The people around me in the past have tried using these same cheap tactics.

I mean, this thinking is not original. Henry David Thoreau went through the exact same process. If you are familiar with his writings, he calls BS on social convention, like debt, keeping up appearances, and so called "contemporary thinking" that drag people down, age them, sicken them, and cause early death.

Now, he had a lot of PDs demonize him and project heavily on him as well. He wrote about this many times.

Now, I absolutely will not deal with people who do not have their sh... together.

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« Reply #43 on: March 24, 2013, 11:10:07 AM »

This is very kind of you, stoic, and and deeply, deeply appreciate your efforts at a well thought out response. I really do.

But I don't think you grasp the severity of the situation. I thought this person was going to kill me. I had to hide out at a friends house for a week during my divorce 3 weeks ago because he the past stalking. This is not being negative. This stress, stacked on top of everything else, has caused a snap. So with very, very much due respect, I just don't think you undertand.

First, I need to be away from sitations that harm me, and when I can get stable, I can heal. I am having to jack with this stuff, and as Mommamia very astutely said, I need to bein a place where I can forget. Dealing with legal issues, and criminal, not civil, issues it just festering this thing.

I apologize for freaking people out, but I opened this thread to express unedited thoughts. I am feeling better this afternoon. I do thank everyone. Man, I have grown so much a year of being here.

Thanks to everyone again.

Lol. I absolutely understand. I was threatened as well. She told me she was going to kill me, that she was going to cut my privates off... .  she threatened to destroy my reputation and file false charges against me. She would rage on me and then threaten to call the cops... .  she genuinely wanted to kill me; I could tell. I would be with her and get flashbacks of her psychosis and sexually/physically abusive behavior. I would have panic attacks during recycles... .  because her behavior was so odd... .  it seemed other wordly. i had known this girl for four years, and she snapped on me after her dad died and revealed a side to her that I saw very, very little of over these years... .  because she kept it hidden from me... .  so I snapped as well. Three times. After each of the past three breakups.

I had panic attacks, woke up at 4 am every morning, was hypervigilant and "reasonably paranoid". I had reason to be paranoid, because I was with someone who has borderline personality disorder and has poor impulse control and is psychologically unstable. She could very well stalk me or play scary tricks on me, or whatever... .  I mean at the time... .  i was so entangled, that her psychotic behavior had a profound impact on my own psyche... .  and I am easily manipulated, and Im very naive!

For me, it was that I was concentrating too much on fear... .  which led to the paranoia. Why are you so scared? If you are scared for your physical safety, than I would contact the police or a local women's shelter... .  right?

Is there somewhere tranquil that you can go stay for a week or two?(well i guess u did that)

Watch something stupid and sappy... .  like adam sandler movies? Lifes not supposed to be this scary!

Try and do things that are positive, feel good activities.

Exercise does help... .  but its hard to do it when u feel like crap.

Force yourself in to the present moment... .  Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)

I know it seems impossible... .  but in time it will seep in and make u feel better:)

I would suggest spending as little time possible ruminating on your fears!

You don't have to thank me for writing this, its therapeutic for me too... .  I've been in your shoes before to some extent, and I know that nobody could possibly understand what I was going through either... .  my scenario might not have been as severe, but i definitely can relate to what you are feeling... and Im very sorry that you are feeling like that... .  wouldnt wish it upon anybody! I actually saw that you had an N dad and brother, and I have an N mom and sister... .  so I felt like I could relate!

I'm a HSP (highly sensitive person) so I have to be very careful of who I associate with and how long I am around them... .  I look at it as a good thing. But I have to live my life a little differently than the average person... and I'm actually okay with that!

Its great being away from my N family and BPD exgf... .  it really helps! I miss them to some extent... .  I mean when u were raised by abusive people, ya love abusive people!


It sucks... its a very lonely place to be... .  

Feel better:)

Stoic
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« Reply #44 on: March 24, 2013, 11:28:19 AM »

That's me you described Mary, going with the herd and not thinking for myself. I definitely need work on that. Despite all you've been through you seem very aware of self. Mine is smudged around the edges and I need to work on making it more definite. I really appreciate what you have to say, on many things we are totally opposite yet there is something that feels so personally familiar to me when I read what you say. It has been years since I read Thoreau. Another book for my list. That's the second book I've added just today. The other is "Coming Up For Air" by George Orwell. Have you read it? Just finishing ":)aring Greatly" by Brene Brown. Recommend it highly.
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« Reply #45 on: March 24, 2013, 11:40:35 AM »

Mary... .  just go find other existentialists and hang out with them. Forget people "who dont have their ~ together"... .  what does that even mean? I don't have my ~ together on a ton of different levels... .  in fact I'd dare to say that your ~ is clearly apart right now... .  Laugh out loud (click to insert in post).

Find other idealists, existentialists, transcendentalists... .  etc. who strive to adhere to the "greatest good" and are highly conscious. Once you are firmly in the present moment, self-aware, and have healthy boundaries... .  your ~ will be "hand packed".

As long as your rigid boundaries, paranoia, and "fight against what is" are at the forefront of your mind... .  society is missing an important person's conscious positivism.

So forget about all the dbags... .  the 90%, the status quo. How do you get back to your "greatest good"? We live in an individualistic society... .  and if you don't want to feel so isolated and paranoid then find other people who look at the world like you do and hang out with them.

They are hard to find... and unlike people wBPD they arent just going to show up at your door! Ha! Well, Im still looking... .  at least I have a few friends... .  my friend in france, who is studying 12 years to be a judge... .  my best friend from college... .  who went on to be an attorney, one of my professors who invented cloning and then realized it went against his morality and now has his own library in ireland.

I live in orange county ca. A soul sucking vortex. The anti-society society. So I don't have many people like this around... .  if I was an existentialist what the fk would I be doing in this personality disordered society? So... .  im focusing on my business, and growing that... .  so I can move to LA and be in a large city that most likely has more people who think like I do... .  

What are you doing to find people that are good social mirroring for you? Do you have lots of friends that think like you do? Do you have a lot of friends who you suspect might have PDs? How do you get to a good place, well you feel happier with the people around you? That you feel safe and good because you feel understood and that you aren't alone... .  and that you are fighting the good fight?

If I'm just projecting... .  who cares. Good stuff here... .  I might follow this advice myself, Laugh out loud (click to insert in post).

As long as were taking personal inventory, a lot of times i offer advice in lieu of support... .  but I am always asking for advice... .  and shunning support. When what I really need is support, but I ask for advice... .  Laugh out loud (click to insert in post). Its a vicious cycle.

Enjoy your sunday!


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« Reply #46 on: March 24, 2013, 10:08:41 PM »

Oh stoic, you bet I only keep company with other existentialists. And yes, they are hard to find. I will not spend time around people with limited insight or empathy. This is a real hard boundary I have to draw.

I do hang out, I have a crazy busy social life. I am involved with various political and social justice groups at a local level. But I distance myself from crazies pronto. Total judge Judy. I have to have a lot of down time too, because it exhausts me.

The paranoid will go away just as soon as I extract every last little piece of crap from my life. You may have more room for maneuvering, but I don't. this has just been too, too much.

Thanks much for writing and have a good evening.
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« Reply #47 on: March 25, 2013, 10:31:34 AM »

To my eyes, I see false and synthetic everywhere. That is, my BS detector is always going off. The people around me in the past have tried using these same cheap tactics.

I mean, this thinking is not original. Henry David Thoreau went through the exact same process. If you are familiar with his writings, he calls BS on social convention, like debt, keeping up appearances, and so called "contemporary thinking" that drag people down, age them, sicken them, and cause early death.

Maryiscontrary, I've felt these same sentiments for many years now.  I've been able to see through much of the facade.  I still feel strongly about adhering to personal values and ideals rather than buying into the herd mentality, but I must say that I do not practice this perfectly (nor am I supposed to).

I, too, have found it difficult to find others that share similar views.  Currently, I live in a rural area where narrow mindedness dominates much of the culture.  I appreciate the physical beauty of the natural surroundings, but the overall mentality of the population is lacking, in my opinion.  I work in an educational environment; however, and that helps some.

I end up feeling isolated some of the time, but that is my fault.  I was reading recently about the importance of forming alliances with groups that share similar interests.  It sounds great that you are involved with like-minded political groups.

Part of what I wanted to say, though, was that I try not to see myself as too separate from society, though, because I am definitely a part of it.  I feel that I can take my views to the extreme at times, and this can cause me unnecessary discomfort.  Btw, I'm not saying that this is what I hear you doing. 

The key for me is to find the balance.  I am a part of, but I am also unique.  I have tremendous respect for Thoreau, but I sometimes wonder if he was still trying to escape himself somehow.  I can relate.
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« Reply #48 on: March 25, 2013, 10:48:41 AM »

Phoenix, thanks so much for writing.

Thoreau found social convention, and the little lies the so called pious live by, very offensive. He got fired from a teaching position for not using corporal punishment. He was a surveyer, and the people who hired him always wanted the land staked in their favor, not according to land deeds. Got thrown in jail fro not paying a stupid poll tax. Nobody would hire him, even though he had a harvard education and excellent references. He would clean and survey county roads up then in Concord, Mass, and nobody would give him a full time job. Too honest. Society too ugly. And he realized he could shift for himself and write and pick his toenails for almost nothing, and have a higher quality of life that those who were in the rat race.

I used to be a professor, but even that became corrupt, as administration just wanted money, and would not let us throw out cheaters and disruptive students. Diploma mill. And this was everywhere. Research labs want you to produce the proper results so that they can milk grants or government money... . not true results. I felt like a cheap whore.
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« Reply #49 on: March 25, 2013, 11:07:54 AM »

Yes, I am quite familiar with Civil Disobediance.  I love that piece of work.  Kudos to you for standing up for what you believe.   Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)

This conversation reminds me of one of my favorite movies, Into the Wild.  Have a good day.
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« Reply #50 on: March 25, 2013, 02:29:52 PM »

Just want to jump in here, Maryiscontrary and Phoenix.Rising, to say that I resonate very much with the last few posts.  I don't live my life like my friends, or it seems, like "most people," and sometimes I wonder if I'm just warped.  I do worry lately that I am becoming too isolated, but hope that it's because of my BPD adventure, among other losses this past year.  I often daydream about living in the country, in nature, peaceful and not running after things which just don't have meaning for me.  But the other side of me would miss people and real connection - healthy, nurturing connection.

I think I might be isolating because, like you Maryiscontrary, the unhealthy relationships I've had for the past years have put me off, and I have trouble even believing now that I will find nurturing ones.

Thanks for the stimulating reflection  Smiling (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #51 on: March 25, 2013, 03:33:45 PM »

Thanks guys, I really think this thread helped me. I was not able to talk about these things before.
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« Reply #52 on: March 25, 2013, 11:37:34 PM »

Mary, I thought maybe this video may be of interest to you. Sign up using an email address then access the video series.

Session 6: Karla McLaren – Understanding Empathy & Shame - is a really interesting one.

The Self-Acceptance Project Finding Our Sense of Fundamental Worthiness

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« Reply #53 on: March 26, 2013, 08:12:28 AM »

Just got through watching that interview. This was really good.

Here is where I think the paranoia comes from.

I am aspie, it is not detectable to the naked eye, but I do have problems reading others intentions. I don't have problems with empathy. I have learned to read rudimentary signals. However, I miss out on signals that are invisible, like social scheming and plotting.

This is what causes the paranoia, as to me, evil ~ appears out of nowhere. It comes from a blind spot, and my FOO as well as others can see this, and it is exploited. It is ugly stuff, that I have no control over, that comes from that blind spot, that has really screwed up my life.

This is why I have to be really really tough on boundaries. I get signals that are ambiguous, sometimes they are innocent misunderstandings, sometimes they are exploitative. But the exploitative is always shrouded in ambiguous , non clear signals. 

So, I am making rudimentary attempts to clarify. Sometimes misunderstandings are then understood. But 80% or more of the time, either the person is too stupid, or is an exploiter, looking for a mark. If the person is too stupid, after doing my part of due diligence, then obviously they want me to carry the cognitive load. So the whole stupid and exploitative signaling get thrown in the proverbial dumpster.

A lot of people are fine tuned here, and can discriminate signals a little better, and may not throw the baby out with the bath water. But it is a major blind spot, and I have to work with this,

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« Reply #54 on: March 26, 2013, 08:24:19 AM »

Hi Mary - I had an old housemate that was an 'aspie', so I do totally understand what you are having to deal with.  Many times he'd come to me and relay a situation that he encountered with someone, similar to how you describe the paranoia encounters, and I walked him through it trying to ascertain whether or not his interpretation of the persons intent was truly social scheming/plotting or if it was his paranoia.  Sometimes, I would say it was social scheming, on some level, and other times not.

Do you have people you trust that can help interpret the situations you run into?
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« Reply #55 on: March 26, 2013, 08:54:04 AM »

Thanks for writing. Well, I have some some wonderful ethical people that are friends, but their judgement, as in weighing options, is not as strong as mine. If I could get the signals, I could make the judgements myself. These are really wonderful people, and I would do anything for them, as their intentions are great, but their judgement and evalulation is not as strong as I need.

These are good people. And I trust their honor, but not their judgement fully. Too easily swayed by outer influences, which degrades decision making. Again, these are good, good people.
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