When an apology is demanded...

[targetonmyback]

I have noticed that some BPD's are tenacious about getting an apology for a perceived hurt. Nothing moves forward until they believe an appropriate apology has been made.

What is the best way for a family member to approach this? I held off an apology for 9 months because I did not want to validate a false accusation. In the end I sent a "my apologies" email because I was exhausted by repeated demands, threats, blackmail of what would happen to another relative if I did not apologize. My lack of apology for 9 months has had severe negative consequences within the family.

I feel that I truly validated a false accusation and I am ashamed that I let myself be forced into it again, that I did not stand my ground. I anticipate the demand for another apology will happen again and again if I keep doing what I've been doing.

Is there a standard way of dealing with BPD false accusations and nonBPD equally false apologies?

[Vivgood]

That's one of the keys of validation. One should NOT apologize for crimes one didn't commit... .  one can certainly express compassion and understanding for painful emotions, and feel "sorry" that one's actions/words have evoked such a painful response. Doesn't mean you wouldn't take the same action again in the same circumstance ! But you can take "right action" while feeling sadness at the knowledge that right action will hurt someone.

vivgood

[Vivgood]

wanted to add... .  

what the BPD wants is NOT an apology  for your words or actions (tho they will fight to the death to say it is!); they want you to express empathy for their hurt. They have little-to-no ability to respond in proportion to stimulae, sometimes they have no response to something which would trigger powerful emotion in a Non, and sometimes (ok alot of the time) they over-respond to something so trivial a Non can't even perceive it. Sometimes their response isn't disproportional so much as it is inappropriate (laughing rather than crying at a sad movie). And they don't know why, so they assign you with blame.

vivgood

[SadWifeofBPD]

oh my... .  this is my life!

H is always perceiving "hurts" out of nowhere and demands apologies.  And even if I do apologize, it's never enough.

Because H is also narcissitic, he expects many frequent complents from me (his narcissistic supply).  Sometimes it's hard to compliment someone when they've recently been explosive and rude to you (and my H isn't able to process that.  He isn't able to think, "hey, I've yelled at her a lot lately, maybe that's why she hasn't complimented me lately."  Duh! 

After H came back from rehab for alcoholism, I told him that I know that he likes compliments and that I would try harder to give more... .  and I did.  But it was never enough.  And, I got no recognition for my efforts.  Instead, I was told that I "broke my promise" to give more compliments. 

I really need to know the exact words that I need to use when H is demanding an apology (for some perceived hurt).  Even when I do apologize, it's never enough or he'll say, "you don't really mean it"  or  "your apology is hollow because I know that you'll do that again."   

The whole thing  is crazy.  H, our adult children, and I can be having a nice time and then H will start talking about something rather mild.  However, as he continues talking (and he talks a LOT... .  he's a "chatty cathy", his story will wind around and segue into other topics and soon he'll be "reminded" of some past perceived "hurt" that he didn't feel was properly addressed.  So, then the evening is ruined because we're not able to stop the progression.  Once H has "stepped into" a subject that he is still angry about, then his anger quickly escalates and there's nothing anyone can seem to do. 

The funny thing is that he doesn't do this with most people.  Maybe because he doesn't feel that he has a long history of "past hurts" with these folks.   He can work pretty well with others as long as he doesn't have to work too closely with them.  He does have problems with "team projects" or long term business trips with people.  A couple of years ago, he had a couple long term business trips with about 6 people.  They were all working in close quarters during this time.   Quite soon, problems erupted (H hates to have his work questioned, and hates to have others offer other suggestions, etc).   So, he's permenantly angry at those co-workers.   

However, with his interactions with most people, his contact is very fleeting or superficial, so many outsiders have no idea that he behaves this way. 

To give you an idea of how superficial his relationships can be with others:  H was in a golfing foursome for many years with the same men.  They went golfing pretty regularly.  One day, H told me that one of the foursome had suddenly died from a heart attack.  I asked if the guy was married and had kids.  My H said, "of course he does."  When we went to the funeral we learned that the guy had never been married, did not have a SO, nor did he have any kids.  How could H golf with the same guy for years and not know that they guy was single/no kids?    I do think that one problem is that H is always so busy talking about himself, that others don't have time to share their own info.   But that was a very "telling" incident to me.  Most of us can't imagine spending even one hour with someone without learning some basic facts: married/single, kids/no kids, profession, etc.     H spent many many hours with this guy, year after year, and basically knew NOTHING about him.

[NeedAdvice]

Apologies are fruitless IMHO. Kudos to you for the attempt and do not beat yourself up for making a good effort. You are just being kind and trying to help.

The poster who said what they want is for you to empathize with how they "feel" is probably spot on. What they "feel" you and I cannot imagine.

My apology came back to me as a new weapon of attack as it was not sufficient.

BTW, nothing would have been sufficient.

Keep motoring on, you cannot help or influence these folks.

Run Forest Run.

[nomom4me]

Hah, I love it ^^^^ Run, Forest Run!

I've had apologies demanded, what my mom wants is control and amnesty.  She thinks guilt is a good tool, I don't agree and the most I'll give her is an "I'm sorry you feel that way.". 

[GeekyGirl]

My mother has done this and given me the silent treatment until I gave her a "good enough" apology in the past a number of times.

Here's what I've learned, mostly through my T, but from here as well: in the person with BPD's mind, a real offense has been committed, even if it's not an obvious one. Sometimes even the person with BPD can't explain why he/she is hurt. Through the apology they're receiving validation and acknowledgement of the pain. With a person with NPD or narcissistic traits, it's really important to be "right," and the apology serves as a way of proving that.

So here's my take: apologize if you truly feel that you've done something wrong, or acknowledge the other person's feelings, but if the demand for the apology is vague, ask for clarification and use SET where it's appropriate. "I can see that you're hurt, and that wasn't my intention. Until I have a good understanding of how this happened, though, we won't be able to resolve this. What has happened to make you feel this way?"

[SadWifeofBPD]

To my BPDH, apologies are everything.  The problem is that if you do apologize, he'll later insist that you didn't or that it wasn't meaningful.

Worse, if you apologize for your role in a fight, he'll later say that you admitted to being wrong about everything and that you were solely responsible.

Or, even if he accepts your apology, nothing is forgiven because you never should have done X in the first place because it caused him so MUCH pain.  (omg!)