Something that made sense to me...

[mango_flower]

Tonight I went for dinner with a couple of friends.

One of them said to me:

J: You have to let go of her.  Stop being her friend.  She left you.

Me: But I promised her.  I can't break my promise just because she broke hers.

J: But she left you. She's with somebody else - I don't mean to be brutal, but you owe her nothing.

Me: You don't understand how broken she is

J: She can't just have you as a friend when she wants you!  That's not ok.  She is engaged to somebody else now - so she has made a promise to HER.

Me: But the day she put that engagement ring on my finger... .  I made a promise to her.  Just cos she left me, I won't break that promise. I'll always be there for her.

J: But she isn't and wasn't there for you!

Me: But two wrongs don't make a right.  I made a promise to always love her and be there for her.  I can't break that.

It went on in this vein for a bit.  Complete stalemate.

Then our other friend chipped in with something quite insightful.

K: Mango, do you feel she is the same person now?

Me: No - I don't know her at all.  She's not my sweet girl anymore.  She's morphed into this new person, mirroring her new girl.

K:  Who did you make the promise to?

Me: My sweet girl.  The one I was going to marry. 

K: But that girl has gone now.  This new girl, in her body, isn't her.  She's somebody different.  So you're not really breaking a promise to her, because that's no longer her.

So yeah.  That made sense for me.

I have always felt this huge loyalty to my ex.  I get her, I understand her in ways that nobody else can. That I'll always be there for her, whatever she needs.  Even if she treats me like crap and continues to hurt me, I'll just be her punching bag cos I don't go back on my promises.

But now I am starting to realise, I won't be breaking any promises.

Because my sweet girl wasn't the one who did this.  My sweet girl no longer exists.  She faded away, or died at some point.

So my promises are null and void.

I'm a little confused about it all - but I think it's progress.  I don't need to take her crap anymore.

Because it's not my sweet girl giving me that crap - it's the new person in her body.

On the plus side, we had a nice friendly email conversation this morning, as she emailed to congratulate me on an award I won on Saturday in the sport we both do. I thanked her, she asked about my plans for this week and I told her.  I wished her luck starting her new job.  She thanked me.

I'm ok with exchanges like that.  They do make me sad, as they were like my sweet girl saying those things - not this new person I feel I don't know.  It was like old times.  Bittersweet.

Mixed emotions tonight.

[willy45]

Mango_Flower,

I totally get that you want to keep your commitments. Commitments are probably really important to you. And that is a good thing.

But, there are times when you need to matter too. This is something that I have been trying to learn since my break up. I matter too. Yes. You could have taken all her crap. And yes. You could keep taking all her crap. That is certainly an option. But is that healthy? Is that going to be good for you? YOU MATTER!

Let's just say that I told you that I had this girlfriend. She was great and wonderful and beautiful and smart. She was charming and loved me to bits and pieces. And lets say that I did commit to her. I told her that I wanted to live with her and have a family with her. And then lets say that this person would then rage at me in the middle of night for rolling over. This person would guilt me into sleeping on a blow mattress on the floor every night. This person would rage at me for petting a dog. She would rage at me for not sitting beside her properly. She would rage at me for being 5 minutes late for picking her up at school. She would rage at me because I liked her roommates muffins. She would rage at me for not taking my bike on a metro. She would rage at me for not locking up my bike fast enough. And let's just say that I would have to hide under the bed from her. Let's say that her raging at me would leave me curled up in a ball on the floor crying my eyes out. And that I started to get health problems from all the stress and the lack of sleep. And let's say that I started to get scared that she was going to start hitting me.

What would you say to me? (All these things happened, and more). Would you say: "Hey johnnyorganic, you should just take it. You made a commitment and now you have to take it?" Probably not. You would probably say: "Hey johnnyorganic, get the H*LL OUT OF THERE!. (I hope... .  ).

Now, I know you guys spent some good times together. And I know you loved her very much. And that is good. You are capable of loving someone else. But, loving yourself is just as important.

Furthermore, the posts about her ex's current behavior is not only odd, it is abusive towards you. She is actively trying to hurt you. She wants to hurt you. She is using you. She is probably flipping out inside and she is using you. And, surprise surprise, this is hurting you. Part of learning to love yourself is to set boundaries around who you are. This is a first step. It might not feel good. You are probably used to 'taking all her crap'. But, it is an essential step. Think of someone coming after you with a knife in the hallway. If you didn't care about yourself, you would just stand there and take it. But, if you did care, you would run into an apartment and shut the door. What your ex is doing to you now is the emotional equivalent. It doesn't matter if she thinks she is doing something wrong or not. What matters is that she is hurting you. And you have to take care of yourself. BECAUSE YOU MATTER!

Nobody else is going to do it for you. Your ex certainly isn't going to.

Anyhow, the thrust of my argument is this: You matter. Your ex sounds looney. She is actively trying to hurt you and keep you reeled in with guilt. You are probably very susceptible to guilt. You need to learn that about yourself. And you need to learn to set up boundaries to protect yourself. You are going to have to do it sooner or later. But remember, YOU ARE WORTH IT! And, you can do it.

[Suzn]

Me: No - I don't know her at all.  She's not my sweet girl anymore.  She's morphed into this new person, mirroring her new girl.

These two personalities are the same girl mango. A girl with some real issues. Promises are important to keep, I get it. I feel the same way. Promises are like contracts, with ourselves. I mean you can say you promise but if you don't hold yourself to it then you are the one breaking the contract. Here's the thing, the other party can affect that contract we hold ourselves to. In a fantasy world everyone would be kind, do the right thing and keep all promises. In reality we live in a world where people aren't always kind, they don't always do the right thing and many break promises. So how do we protect ourselves?

What I have decided to do, to protect myself, is to only make promises I know I will feel comfortable keeping. So how would I know this? By getting to know who I am making promises to well before I make any. And what about promises to yourself? I wholehearted agree that you matter and that you are worth considering making a promise to yourself that you will take care of you first and foremost. Because you can count on you, you keep promises.

You don't have to be mean to your ex, you can learn the communication skills and practice boundaries that keep you safe. Emotionally distancing yourself a little because you "understand her in ways nobody can." Allowing someone to be alone with themselves when they need to learn to cope and to learn to handle their own life lessons is an act of love.

[crashintome]

You absolutely, positively owe her NOTHING.  When she left you, it voided any promises you made to her.

When I first met my ex and we were "just friends," she told me so was so unhappy in her relationship with her GF.  She said she only stayed because she was comfortable after 3 years and this girl paid all of the bills, leaving my ex free to spend her money on foolish things and focus on her personal (i.e credit card) debt.

When my ex and I first started seeing each other, she was always telling me she wanted someone to "take care of her."  I told her I would absolutely NOT support her until she and I were exclusive (she cheated on her GF with me).

Flash forward to this last recycling attempt:  I paid to fly out there, paid upwards of $1500 to replace house decorations and things the new girl took when she moved out.  I took her to dinner and bought all of her drinks.  I bought her a golf club.  I sent her flowers.  I figured, she is single now and I am going to be the girl who can "take care" of her.  Guess what?  She left me anyway.

Do not be a doormat.  :)o not lie down while this girl uses you and takes advantage of your kindness.  I know the back and forth emails feel good - you feel like you still have some sort of/any kind of contact with her.  I get it 100%.  If it didn't hurt me to see my ex with someone else, we would be "friends" right now too but I just physically can't handle it.

I think you need to cut ties 100%.  No support, no contact, nothing.  It's like ripping off the bandage and letting the wound heal.  I think the contact is holding you back.

I feel like you and I are so very similar.  I want the best for you.  I want you to come away from this better because I want hope that I can, too.  

[Suzn]

Controlled Contact, which is essentially what you are doing mango, can be a healthier way to disengage, for yourself and her. NC is a tool, one that is normally temporary while you gain some emotional distance to get on your feet.

This is an excerpt from the Quiz: Fact or Urban Legend here: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=151669.20  (on page 2, though the whole thread is excellent)

Controlled Contact. Experts suggest that the best way to break away is to "Gradually become more boring, talk less, share less feelings and opinions. The goal is almost to bore "The pwBPD" to lessen the emotional attachment, at the same time not creating a situation which would make you a target.".

https://bpdfamily.com/tools/articles10.htm

Controlled Contact works really well.  Often there is a little reaching by the other party at the beginning, but if we stay cool, the extinction burst depletes and the person lets go.

The biggest advantage of CC is that it phases detachment, a little at a time,  as both parties accept the distance.

No Contact and Avoidance Measures. Now sometimes we struggle to let go ourselves.  And if we are just too weak to do CC (I was), going NC and other avoidance tactics are great for a limited time to break our entanglement and emotional trauma.  

At the same time, however, it is important to recognize that avoidance tactics are temporary crutches to get us over the difficult times.  As soon as we can live without these crutches, we should - go back and attend the Church, go to the high school football games, go to favorite restaurants, respond to requests to return the cat, etc.

The downside of no contact is that the "absoluteness " of it often triggers abandonment anxiety in one or both parties.  It can trigger nonconstructive emotional coping, and even recycling as one or both parties start fighting against their inherit abandonment fears.  This is why it fails so often.

[careman]

Mango !

I believe this i simple:

Imagine a group of people holding hands forming a ring. The ring will exist ONLY when ALL involved in the ring formation contributes to it by hold hands. Whenever ONE of the involved parties releases his/her hands the ring CEASE TO EXIST. Breaking the ring is an INDIVIDUAL decision. Manifesting and maintaining the ring is a COLLECTIVE decision. No ONE individual can uphold the ring. The breaking behavior DOMINATES the creating/maintaining behavior. Therefore the existence of the ring is fragile by it's susceptibility to obliteration by individual domination.

Agreements between humans, two or more, is manifested only while all involved in the agreement holds on to it. Whenever ONE of it's participants breaks out of it - IT DOES NOT EXIST ANYMORE.

You are not bound by agrement that has been broken by the other part as it per above philosophical rational - no longer exists.

Further, on a more down to earth human level, staying loyal to someone that treats you bad seems downright ... .  'unhealthy'... .  

And I can testify on behalf of myself: Guilty as charged

/Careman

[mango_flower]

I find this so tough!

I see, and hear all your logic, and would tell somebody else the same. But I just can't do it.

I am not "waiting" for her - she has well and truly moved on.

I just can't let go of the fact that I promised I'd always be there for her - my boundaries have shifted, as in, if she called saying her new fiancee had dumped her, I wouldn't take her back.  I wouldn't invite her to stay with me.  And I wouldn't lend her money.

But I would be her friend and listen to her, so long as she did not direct her anger at me.

Yes, I know I am a mug.

How do I lose this loyalty towards her?  I'm frustrated with myself.  

[mango_flower]

Oh- and Suzn - THANK YOU! It's nice to see an alternative to NC - I don't want to make her abandonment fears come true -

I like the idea of controlled contact... .  

I am going to try being as boring as boring can be  xxx

[fakename]

mango,

2 things, one i saw you wrote that no one understand her the way you do. i recalled a post by '2010' to someone who said "nobody in the world knows her, the real her, the way i did" and i wanted to share it below.

2ndly, i could be wrong, but i hope you aren't putting in more effort to accommodate to her than you are yourself. remember not to neglect yourself and no one is more important than you. 

Quote

Sad thing is, nobody in the world knows her, the real her, but me.

She gave you that impression. And it is an impression that's left an indelible mark- but you have to come to terms that this was seduction, plain and simple. It was also a dance repeated by her over and over again with other people... .  other "objects."  Why else would she become so upset after learning that an ex-boyfriend was getting married? She's lost a valuable object that supports her identity. Without him- and his persona surrounding her- she's left without support.

Your objectification was about being a sounding board- perhaps useful to her- but more importantly, heroic to you. When she went away, she not only took away her loving gaze, but she shoved you off the pedestal. That's disordered. That's hurtful. That's important.

Ask yourself why you thought that this rarest blue flame called love could be kept 100% alive with only 50%. Without two people to make a 100% pact, there is no hope.

Stay awhile here and read- you'll find thousands of posts by people that share an emotional loss of heroic proportions. You'll need to re-evaluate what it means to be attached, and what it meant to be attached to a person with Borderline Personality. You'll see that you were used- that there is a trail of tears that started well before you came into the picture and there will be others down the line. Your job is to understand that you are no different from any of them. It will be painful, but necessary.

[clairedair]

But I would be her friend and listen to her... .  

I don't want to make her abandonment fears come true -

Mango - why is it your responsibility to prevent her fears from being realised?  They're her fears and they'll come true no matter what you do because she hasn't dealt with them (if she had, it's unlikely she'd have moved on so quickly).  Plus, she's not 'abandoned' - she has a partner. And she abandoned you.

Below is a copy of a text sent to me - I found it useful because I know that I tried to make list easier for ex.  Felt so distressed by his pain and damage that I couldn't see that (a) I wasn't helping him at all by 'rescuing' (b) I was damaging myself

KEEPING OUR HAND OFF THE COCOON

A compassionate person seeing a butterfly struggling to free itself from its cocoon, and wanting to help, very gently loosened the filaments to from an opening. The butterfly was freed, emerged from the cocoon, and fluttered about but could not fly. What the compassionate person did not know was that only through birth struggle can the wings grow strong enough for flight. Its shortened life was spent on the ground. It never knew freedom, never really lived….

Our exes struggle - it's so painful to see because we love them.  So we help them out.  And they don't learn to fly.  And they blame us for restricting them.  And then neither of us truly lives or flies.

Go and play Little Mix's "Wings" full blast and dance... .  

Mamma told me not to waste my life

She said spread your wings my little butterfly

Don't let what they say keep you up at night

And they can't detain you

'Cos wings are made to fly

And we don't let nobody bring us down

No matter what you say it won't hurt me

Don't matter if I fall from the sky

These wings are made to fly

It's not easy as a compassionate person to step back from someone in need but right now you are someone in need.  As johnnyorganic says - YOU MATTER

[Suzn]

How do I lose this loyalty towards her?  I'm frustrated with myself.  

The biggest advantage of CC is that it phases detachment, a little at a time,  as both parties accept the distance.

This is not an overnight process mango. Be kind and patient with yourself, just as much as you give your ex.

btw... .  I edited my first reply to you in this thread, it was a little confusing.