Empty words

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

We all know now that their words were "empty". Not truly understanding the depth and meaning behind what they say. However when I think back on my r/s, even right back to the very early days I can remember always thinking her words felt empty. I can't really explain exactly what I mean but I just remember always leaving with this gut feeling that what she was saying (in regards to her feelings for me) just wasn't genuine. Weather it was early in the r/s about how amazing I was or later in the r/s when she would simply say "I love you". Something just didn't sit right with me. Of course I soaked it all up - it was great!

It was even in her smile. It just didn't seem genuine? I don't really know how to best explain it and I hope I'm making some sort of sense but it was almost like her smile didn't match her eyes?

I also remember that a lot of heart filled things that were said were always done through text. For example in the early stages after we'd been on a date when I got home I would have these elaborate poem like texts detailing how amazing I was and how she's never met anyone like me blah blah blah. Later on in the r/s, even when we were living together any issue or problem we were having seemed to almost always be discussed through text while I was at work for the day. Looking back I can't actually remember sitting down and having a real important, meaningful or heart felt conversation face to face... .  about anything?

Can anyone relate to the gut instinct feeling when ever they expressed their love or feelings to you that something just wasn't right about it? Or the inability to communicate about important matters or even feelings in person?

[Dave44]

We all know now that their words were "empty". Not truly understanding the depth and meaning behind what they say. However when I think back on my r/s, even right back to the very early days I can remember always thinking her words felt empty. I can't really explain exactly what I mean but I just remember always leaving with this gut feeling that what she was saying (in regards to her feelings for me) just wasn't genuine. Weather it was early in the r/s about how amazing I was or later in the r/s when she would simply say "I love you". Something just didn't sit right with me. Of course I soaked it all up - it was great!

It was even in her smile. It just didn't seem genuine? I don't really know how to best explain it and I hope I'm making some sort of sense but it was almost like her smile didn't match her eyes?

I also remember that a lot of heart filled things that were said were always done through text. For example in the early stages after we'd been on a date when I got home I would have these elaborate poem like texts detailing how amazing I was and how she's never met anyone like me blah blah blah. Later on in the r/s, even when we were living together any issue or problem we were having seemed to almost always be discussed through text while I was at work for the day. Looking back I can't actually remember sitting down and having a real important, meaningful or heart felt conversation face to face... .  about anything?

Can anyone relate to the gut instinct feeling when ever they expressed their love or feelings to you that something just wasn't right about it? Or the inability to communicate about important matters or even feelings in person?

[Want2know]

I know the feeling you are describing about how hollow the r/s seemed, or what my ex was saying.  I look back on my r/s and don't feel that it was love, or even a real friendship.  It is weird.

What I think it was is that he was saying what I wanted to hear, so I believed it, at the time.  It sounds like you needed to hear the things she was saying to you, even if now you have the feeling that her words were hollow.

As you start to detach from her more, you will find that what you have learned from this relationship will help you in future relationships.  It will allow you to be more discerning.  That's all a part of the Processing stage of detachment (see on the right of this page).

[Newton]

Dave I can appreciate your thoughts about this... .  I found the mirroring behaviour more hurtful than any of the verbal or physical abuse I experienced... .  

I don't doubt their affection was genuine (within the scope of what they can manage)... .  at that particular moment in time... .  but it was transitory in nature and based on their need for attachment.  It is not sustainable as their feelings are so unstable... .  

When I looked back on emails and txts it became quite apparent to me that often I was reading my words and sentiments for her, but re hashed slightly, regurgitated and then given back to me... .  

It's a lot easier to keep a mask on if you have a keypad in front of you rather than a person... .  

[ScotisGone74]

Through the idealization stage with mine she was always saying these elaborate things to me and pushing for all that she could get from the get go, ie planning where we would get married, looking at rings, looking at houses, talking about baby names,introducing me to her family,  sheesh, all of this of course early on in the relationship.  She would do this and that little voice inside me was like 'really?', 'get the heck out of here',  'are you serious?'.  It was like being out in the desert about to die of thirst and you run across a big pool surrounded by cold beverages  ha, you know your asking yourself how could everything I hoped for be happening.   And little by little as the inklings of skeletons start falling out of the closet do you realize why your the one there with them and not someone else. 

In the beginning of the idealization stage there was constant "I Love You's" and they seemed very genuine to me at the time.  I think its possible that it was real to her too- at THAT time only.  As the relationship went along as things started to crumble she still continued the I Love You bit, even while she was cheating, flirting around, putting a profile on an internet matchmaker,  but I now realize that their "I Love You" really means Love Me More and nothing else.  I think that if you are around anyone for a significant period of time and they are always telling you something you believe it at some point, whether they do or not. 

[healingmyheart]

Dave,

I felt exactly the same way about the hollowness of my ex's expresses of love.  Many times I would just look at him after he would say I love you or whatever because it just felt so "flat" and "without emotion".  The smile too, I always felt his smile was fake.  Most of the time, his smile was due to me smiling at him... .  guess he just was mirroring me.  My counselor said that really he was nothing more than an actor... .  apparently not a very good one.  Well, I guess good enough to keep me around for a couple of years.  They know what you want to hear hence thats what they say.

My ex and I would communicate a lot through text as well.  He is an incredible writer so he could bring me to tears with his poems and romantic letters and often did.  In fact in hindsight any time I had a major concern or issue, I found myself waiting til I could send him a text because in person it was too difficult to communicate with him. 

I felt like we discussed a lot of the same things over and over again.  We really didn't have a lot of depth to our relationship.  I remember on trips in the car racking my brain trying to think of new things to talk about with him because I really got tired of the same ol' discussions. 

[jaird]

I think Newton said it best, "I don't doubt their affection was genuine (within the scope of what they can manage)... .  at that particular moment in time... .  but it was transitory in nature and based on their need for attachment.  It is not sustainable as their feelings are so unstable... .  "

I don't doubt that mine meant every word she said when she said it. It's just that issues two mature adults would be able to work through by communicating and compromising-well mine was poor at communicating, except in person, and would compromise on nothing. She was extremely controlling, manipulative and suspicious.

And if course, their needs/feelings change frequently.

[jaird]

Want2Know is right too "I look back on my r/s and don't feel that it was love, or even a real friendship.  It is weird."

Exactly my feelings. I was in love, and for me, love pretty much should last forever. It won't in this case because of her hurtful tirades and the way she ended it six weeks before I was moving to be with her. She just poisoned the well once too often. But generally speaking, I believe love endures. She may have FELT she was in love. I know she did. But as her friends told her, and I even told her at the end, it seemed more like an infatuation/obsession.

In my book, you really try not to hurt people you love, and if you do, you apologize profusely and swear to yourself you will never do it again. And if people you love do hurt you, you forgive even if you can't forget.

As far as friendship, that was never really there. As alike as we seemed to be, and as much as we enjoyed being together, she told me right from the beginning of the relationship until the last day that she did not need any friends, she had enough. In reality, like most people, she has a few close friends. She counts among her "friends" many acquaintances from high school 30+ years ago. But in reality, she sees these people only once or twice a year, and they know little about her below the facade she fronts.

[healingmyheart]

The facade they put on can make them appear so damn normal.  My ex is extremely attractive, athletic, funny, charming and just fun to be around.  I'm sure to the average observer, he is perfect in every aspect. 

It actually pisses me off knowing that while he's out there painting me black to the whole world, they are believing every falsehood because he is so believable! 

It's so not right that on the surface they can come across so normal yet those of use victims who dared to go deeper were hurt to the very core.

I want to tattoo a saying to his forehead that says something like "Beware, I have BPD and I will use and abuse you until you can't take it anymore"

[Clearmind]

Can anyone relate to the gut instinct feeling when ever they expressed their love or feelings to you that something just wasn't right about it? Or the inability to communicate about important matters or even feelings in person?

This is an important realization Dave! This is your indicator that something is not right. We all tended to ignore it.

Often in life we neglect our needs – this can start because we don’t know how to be in tune with us. Fixers, care-takers or whichever label you wish to use has become accustomed to not listen to your gut – listen to your gut – the feeling of it – and then acting on it (with a boundary for example) has been switched off.

The more we negate our gut – and squish it down – the more we will lose our ability to communicate and Act. Instead we ignore our values, needs and boundaries which generally leads to anger, frustration and resentment and yes even more importantly - causes us to freeze believing it’s safer to say nothing – for the fear of rejection.

How does that “gut feeling” feel Dave? Does it feel like butterflies, hot flushes in the cheeks, chest feels tight?

[GlennT]

Just imagine that you were'nt born with, and did'nt grow up with your own personality.  It was sucked and snatched out of you somehow like that movie Invasion of the Body Snatchers. Your own concepts of right and wrong would become blurred while trying to think about what true personality is yours, which type you should assume. That would take precedence in order  to communicate and survive. Otherwise, no one would talk to you long, thinking you were a phoney, but you were deep down, and as you grew older, forgot you were.  This is a personality disorder, a disease of a persons entire personality. They must borrow scripted lines and behaviors from other people they see and want to be like, in an endless drama of repeats, reruns, replays, new hellos and goodbyes. They are forever searching for and trying to suck the good personality out of anyone who is suppose to complete them, for a brand new shiny personality never to be damaged, just like what happened to them in the beginning. Their very own stable and healthy personality was taken away through trauma or spoiled, and that is what we all see at the end of each scripted act, empty words spoken through a discombobulated and diseased personality.

[cal644]

I can't tell you how many times I asked my wife if she loved me - in a voice she would say yes I love you (can't descrive voice but without emotion) - I would ask - do you really love me?  - she would say I told you I did - but her words didn't seem real... .  that's why I would ask twice.

[id-crisis]

Just imagine that you were'nt born with, and did'nt grow up with your own personality.  It was sucked and snatched out of you somehow like that movie Invasion of the Body Snatchers. Your own concepts of right and wrong would become blurred while trying to think about what true personality is yours, which type you should assume. That would take precedence in order  to communicate and survive. Otherwise, no one would talk to you long, thinking you were a phoney, but you were deep down, and as you grew older, forgot you were.  This is a personality disorder, a disease of a persons entire personality. They must borrow scripted lines and behaviors from other people they see and want to be like, in an endless drama of repeats, reruns, replays, new hellos and goodbyes. They are forever searching for and trying to suck the good personality out of anyone who is suppose to complete them, for a brand new shiny personality never to be damaged, just like what happened to them in the beginning. Their very own stable and healthy personality was taken away through trauma or spoiled, and that is what we all see at the end of each scripted act, empty words spoken through a discombobulated and diseased personality.

:'(

[Clearmind]

Borderlines have a personality - many Borderlines function very well until triggered - its the trigger that sets off the behavior we all have come to witness - that trigger is close relationships.

[Dave44]

How does that “gut feeling” feel Dave? Does it feel like butterflies, hot flushes in the cheeks, chest feels tight?

Clearmind,

I'm not sure exactly how to describe it. I can just remember always feeling that something is "missing" here. Something just didnt feel "right".

For example, I'll never ever forget this one time. It was our third date, we had just finished a walk and were at our vehicles saying goodbye. I remember telling her, "you know, I really enjoy spending time with you and I think you're really great. I'm not sure how you feel but I would love to continue seeing you". Now keep in mind it's really hard to convey emotion through text but she simply says "yea, me too" but it was the look on her face that I will NEVER forget. She looked like a deer caught in the headlights! Like a scared little girl. I gave her a hug and got in my car and left. As I was driving home I thought to myself, geeze I don't think she likes me. Was it something I said? I thought for sure she wasn't interested and just didn't have the guts to say it there. Just her body language and the way she looked made me feel really awkward. However, as soon as I got home sure enough I recived a long text detailing how much she enjoyed our walk and how much of an amazing guy I was etc etc. I was a little puzzled to say the least.

Another thing too. When we lived together she would often make comments (through text of course) such as "at the end of the day your my best friend and the one that knows me the most and nothing can ever change that". Looking back though I didn't really know her at all? Nor did she really know me? If anything though I knew more about her than she did about me simply because I would often ask about her past. She would never ask about my past though. Never asked about my previous relationships, didn't know where I was born or even anything about my family. When I would ask about her past, particularly her past relationships she would often say things like, "why does it matter? I don't ever ask you about your past?".  The whole thing was just odd.

[LuckyEscapee]

Just imagine that you were'nt born with, and did'nt grow up with your own personality.  It was sucked and snatched out of you somehow like that movie Invasion of the Body Snatchers. Your own concepts of right and wrong would become blurred while trying to think about what true personality is yours, which type you should assume. That would take precedence in order  to communicate and survive. Otherwise, no one would talk to you long, thinking you were a phoney, but you were deep down, and as you grew older, forgot you were.  This is a personality disorder, a disease of a persons entire personality. They must borrow scripted lines and behaviors from other people they see and want to be like, in an endless drama of repeats, reruns, replays, new hellos and goodbyes. They are forever searching for and trying to suck the good personality out of anyone who is suppose to complete them, for a brand new shiny personality never to be damaged, just like what happened to them in the beginning. Their very own stable and healthy personality was taken away through trauma or spoiled, and that is what we all see at the end of each scripted act, empty words spoken through a discombobulated and diseased personality.

Glenn T brilliant summary!

I used to think of my ex like a vacuum, sucking in my personality because he didn't have one of his own, but then not knowing how to drive the assumed personality properly, because it wasn't really his.

[Clearmind]

I'm not sure exactly how to describe it. I can just remember always feeling that something is "missing" here. Something just didnt feel "right".

Good to listen to your body Dave – our bodies tell us when to act.

Often our bodies will tell us before our mind does – if we hold onto some faulty beliefs our thoughts will go through some filters that maybe don’t see things as they are – we will see it through rose coloured glasses.

Our body is the best defense we have – it can guide us. Ever come away from a “situation” not feeling the best about it but no clear picture of why?  Tune in, let your body to register – do you have a tightness in your chest, restricted throat, butterflies in your belly?

This maybe your gut/body screaming at you that something is wrong - we act.

Secondly, words are cheap - watch for actions.

[jaird]

Borderlines have a personality - many Borderlines function very well until triggered - its the trigger that sets off the behavior we all have come to witness - that trigger is close relationships.

Ditto CM,

Mine has a personality, and it was a wonderful personality at one time. The stress of our relationship caused some kind of break. She got worse as the relationship went on. She now admits she is a totally different person with different values, need and desires. She says the old person is locked away, reaching to come out, but that she won't let the old person out. She says she has the key, but will not give it to anyone to free the old person.

That all sounds quite dramatic to me, but she has clearly changed immensely and turned some of her emotions (towards me) off completely.

[fromheeltoheal]

I can relate 100%.  The words and the facial expressions didn't match, they were incongruent.  And there were never any meaningful, heartfelt conversations in person; I used to think she didn't want to go there, but have realized she wasn't capable.  Most of the "juice" in the relationship happened by text, and with my hopes and dreams tied up in it, it all made for major denial on my part, and it wasn't until it got painful enough to break through that denial that I woke up.  There was just bad chemistry, or really no chemistry; I know what it feels like to connect with another human, and the connection just wasn't there, no matter how hard I wanted it to be.  Sad and scary, but hey, we made it this far, wiser.

[Slowlybutsurely]

You've described to a T the feelings and thoughts that I had in my relationship with my ex. Exactly what you said.

Something always seemed off, odd, not real or genuine, but I couldn't put my finger on it. The whole time it was like that, but then she'd say the most unbelievably romantic poetic like things, that I couldn't help but think she truly loved me, somehow. She'd write songs and poems, beautiful texts, emails. But in real life, face to face... .    something was off. I knew it in my gut, but my brain didn't know what to do with it. This created a strange anxiety on my part, because I knew something was wrong, but part of me was convinced, or wanted to be convinced that she was my beautiful soul mate.

I've never had such an experience in a romantic relationship before, and I hope never to again. It really messes you up!