Anyone else scared of having kids/marriage?

[Depression = 72% of members]

I'm not super upset about this, because I have other life goals I'm working on, but I notice myself terrified of commitment things other adults do.

I don't trust I'd be a good parent. I think our family must be massively genetically flawed. I'm terrified of the way my family would interact with a kid. I am specifically NOT having kids because of the way she would treat me. She has a history of over-gifting and barging in on my medical affairs, and that seems like a potential nightmare.

I don't think I could handle marriage. My parent's was awful, just awful to the point where I was begging them to get divorced when I was 8.

I don't even think I could own a house because I'm always waiting for the bottom to fall out on my life. They also fought constantly about house repairs, and we were always moving out of hotels, so I'm scared of settling into a house.

Then there's the influence: My mom repeatedly telling me having babies ruined her voice. How kids ruined her dancing career. How she dropped out of college because I had the flu when I was 3, and how her whole life was ruined from that. Bitterly telling me never to settle down or learn how to cook or clean when I was like 7. Telling me I was never allowed to get married, and how they wouldn't contribute any money anyway (for no reason, this was out of the blue at dinner when I was 20). Refusing to meet my (surprise!) failed fiance. Stonewalling almost every guy I dated in my 20s.

I'm just baffled that every major life event people are supposed to do in our society was preemptively ruined for me.

[XL]

I'm not super upset about this, because I have other life goals I'm working on, but I notice myself terrified of commitment things other adults do.

I don't trust I'd be a good parent. I think our family must be massively genetically flawed. I'm terrified of the way my family would interact with a kid. I am specifically NOT having kids because of the way she would treat me. She has a history of over-gifting and barging in on my medical affairs, and that seems like a potential nightmare.

I don't think I could handle marriage. My parent's was awful, just awful to the point where I was begging them to get divorced when I was 8.

I don't even think I could own a house because I'm always waiting for the bottom to fall out on my life. They also fought constantly about house repairs, and we were always moving out of hotels, so I'm scared of settling into a house.

Then there's the influence: My mom repeatedly telling me having babies ruined her voice. How kids ruined her dancing career. How she dropped out of college because I had the flu when I was 3, and how her whole life was ruined from that. Bitterly telling me never to settle down or learn how to cook or clean when I was like 7. Telling me I was never allowed to get married, and how they wouldn't contribute any money anyway (for no reason, this was out of the blue at dinner when I was 20). Refusing to meet my (surprise!) failed fiance. Stonewalling almost every guy I dated in my 20s.

I'm just baffled that every major life event people are supposed to do in our society was preemptively ruined for me.

[Clearmind]

I'm not super upset about this, because I have other life goals I'm working on, but I notice myself terrified of commitment things other adults do.

Interesting first statement XL! Not super upset but you are terrified of commitment.

Are you diminishing your own emotions/thoughts/feelings? Is this something maybe your BPD parent was good at? It’s a rhetorical question that you don’t need to answer – I also have a BPD parent!

Shine XL – your feelings are valid  .

And if I’m off the mark – Ooops! I shall carry on.

hit

I completely understand your post XL – what I do think is totally wonderful – is that you are here working on you! Is not that something to embrace – if and when you do marry and have kids – you are so much better equipped than you would have been otherwise!

I'm just baffled that every major life event people are supposed to do in our society was preemptively ruined for me.

Continue to work through your faulty beliefs – you haven’t failed – you were taught to put others first – you don’t recognize your achievements – and I don’t mean just those that are listed in your resume.

Every time you dive into self- defeating mode – list 5 things you are proud of – replace those negative thoughts with some positive ones.

Check out that video I posted.

[XL]

Naw, I have some goals. I kind of wanted to get to some educational and financial goals before I settled down regardless.

But I also don't know if I'm just avoiding these things out of spite now. You hear people trash talk your cousins and friends, and then just don't even feel like bothering anymore. I'm not spending a bunch of money on a party for people who are just going to crap all over it. My whole family explosively raged at me the last time I was engaged, from calling me stupid and disrespectful, to stonewalling my fiance. They're really left, and took the "the institution of marriage is a scam" stance with an odd amount of "How dare you not ask the family's permission!"   Then when my fiance and I broke up when he moved overseas for work, they were just delighted. 

It was awful, and I think that contributed to my post-college breakdown when I finally went to therapy. And now I just date guys who don't agree with it either, and in some ways I've kind of doomed myself. The guy is otherwise nice though, so I am conflicted.

Our whole family is just painfully crazy, and I've never been able to sort out if it's biological or learned. I don't know what to do with that. I'm terrified of making a defective kid.

[XL]

Also, I was pretty indifferent to marriage as a kid. I was totally caught of guard when it became such a fiasco when I was 25. I was expecting a bunch of indifference, and not that whole "You're a disgrace to the family!"

Every time a cousin has a wedding, my mom inevitably calls them a selfish brat, makes fun of the ceremony, or acts all put-upon that she has to buy a gift. 

[Clearmind]

XL, your thinking is steeped in your past. The only person you need to please is - you!

Beliefs drive our thoughts and emotions – what is going on your/our lives right now is a direct result of our beliefs. It so happens that having a BPD parent – we have developed some very faulty belief’s about ourselves. The problem with these beliefs is that they can cause us to self-sabotage our life.

A belief that triggers negative self defeating thoughts - will influence your behavior and also your decisions.

Therefore a faulty belief – that you are a brat for going against your parents wishes…

Every time a cousin has a wedding, my mom inevitably calls them a selfish brat, makes fun of the ceremony, or acts all put-upon that she has to buy a gift. 

…is something as an adult you have chosen to believe. Now it is shaping your life’s decisions – that is – a fear of marriage/kids. Faulty beliefs create a life of their own and if we continue to be unconscious to it we will continue to be slaves to our parents wishes.

We are powerless if we live a life believing the contradictions taught by our parents – start developing your own beliefs.

What are 5 things you were prohibited to do as a child? For me:

1.   Disrespect/don’t question my elders

2.   Don’t talk loud

3.   Don’t stick up for myself

4.   Don’t ask for support

5.   Don’t have needs

You?

[XL]

The most damaging message growing up was that I wasn't allowed to grow up. I was kept in age inappropriate clothes/hairstyles. Protected to an insane level, to my embarrassment. Every maturity point I reached was thwarted, mocked or belittled. Everyone did everything they could to make sure I didn't grow up into a real adult, and it shows. I'm still stuck in the pissed teen role in the family, and everyone treats me like I'm 14, when I'm in my mid 30s. Seriously... .  I'm still having an annual christmas talk about "don't buy me hello kitty toys".

So... .  upsettingly, BPD mom has a dangerous hoarding problem and hoards infant items from thrift shops. Cradles and dolls and stuff. A lot of these items are hoarded in my old rooms, and are covered in spiders and pet fur. There's a deeply screwed up current related to infants here, and I can't deal with the constant boundary setting that would entail. I'm terrified she'd be manically over enthusiastic about grandkids, and I'd spend the rest of my life fighting her off with a stick. Her favorite ploy is demanding people come help her organize her hoard, then being insane about it. I have consistently failed to establish boundaries in this area either, as the family refuses to unify as a group against it. They just think more Ebay sites and shelves from Ikea will fix it.

Not coincidentally, I am a massive neat freak and barely tolerate it myself. There is absolutely no way I'd even bring an infant into that house. I'm just leaning towards "kids are going to be a massive source of stress when I'm finally getting my life together, no thanks".

Like I said, it wasn't ever a huge life goal, kind of a "maybe, after I get some other stuff done". This just seems to be a common thread here; terror at having kids.

[Clearmind]

The most damaging message growing up was that I wasn't allowed to grow up. I was kept in age inappropriate clothes/hairstyles. Protected to an insane level, to my embarrassment. Every maturity point I reached was thwarted, mocked or belittled. Everyone did everything they could to make sure I didn't grow up into a real adult, and it shows. I'm still stuck in the pissed teen role in the family, and everyone treats me like I'm 14, when I'm in my mid 30s. Seriously... .  I'm still having an annual christmas talk about "don't buy me hello kitty toys".

I’m sorry to hear that XL.

Boundaries show others who we are! We cannot be expected to be treated as an adult, and be shown respect without boundaries.

Protecting Ourselves with Values and Boundaries

Her favorite ploy is demanding people come help her organize her hoard, then being insane about it. I have consistently failed to establish boundaries in this area either, as the family refuses to unify as a group against it.

Great you have recognized an area you may need some brushing up on.

Not coincidentally, I am a massive neat freak and barely tolerate it myself. There is absolutely no way I'd even bring an infant into that house. I'm just leaning towards "kids are going to be a massive source of stress when I'm finally getting my life together, no thanks".

That is a good boundary! I wouldn’t take kids there either.

Like I said, it wasn't ever a huge life goal, kind of a "maybe, after I get some other stuff done". This just seems to be a common thread here; terror at having kids.

I can understand given your upbringing. You are working on you XL which can only benefit any kids you may have! Good for you.

[charred]

My father was a malignant NPD ass... my mother is one of the coldest people I know (froze out family cat when it died to take to school and dissect)... they seperated when I was 12, divorced when I was 14.

I dated a few gals in junior high/high school, then fell madly in love with my pwBPD in college... she dumped me and that pretty well completed the trauma trifecta. (Those parents/surviving divorce/relationship with pwBPD)

Dated my eventual wife 5 yrs before we moved in together, and we were together 13 yrs before we decided to have a kid, THEN we got married... by then I was 38 yrs old... long answer, but yes, I was scared of having kids and marriage... .  my wife (now exwife) was best relationship I have had (least messed up)... my daughter is awesome... so the two things I most wanted... and am most thankful for having in my life... .  I put off way to long. I wanted more kids and still do (but I am 50... getting way to old... its not fair to a kid for his dad to be 70+ when he is 20)... so at least I know what more normal life is like.

[ScarletOlive]

Hey there XL, you have good insights! You're asking the right questions. When I first joined here, I too was scared of relationships, marriage, and kids because of what I'd seen in my own family. However, there are a lot of people here who had troubled childhoods but grew up to be great parents and spouses. You can be one of those people if that is what you want.

I don't trust I'd be a good parent. I think our family must be massively genetically flawed. I'm terrified of the way my family would interact with a kid. I am specifically NOT having kids because of the way she would treat me. She has a history of over-gifting and barging in on my medical affairs, and that seems like a potential nightmare.

Dear one, you seem to be worried about having kids not to protect hypothetical children from yourself, but from your mother. If your mother were not on your radar as a risk, would you want kids?

You seem to have good sense in what to do, what to protect your kids from, what problems in your FOO you could avoid with them, and like Clearmind said, boundaries are really helpful. If you were a mom, I think you'd be a very good one!

I'm sorry so many life events haven't been good for you in the past. The cool thing now is that you can live your life! Have you considered making a bucket list? You can make one about things you'd like to accomplish, life events you'd like to achieve, places to travel, experiences to have!

Sending lots of caring and support your way.

[GeekyGirl]

I hear ya, XL. My story's a little different, as I was already a wife and mother before finding out BPD, but I had the same worry. What drove me to T and this site was the fear that I'd inflict pain onto my son like my mother had hurt me. I know where you're coming from--being married and having a child are difficult and scary at times, but very rewarding.

Whatever you ultimately decide (and the decision to get married and/or have kids is very personal and individual), you're doing something very good for yourself by getting T, working on yourself, and setting boundaries.

So... .  upsettingly, BPD mom has a dangerous hoarding problem and hoards infant items from thrift shops. Cradles and dolls and stuff. A lot of these items are hoarded in my old rooms, and are covered in spiders and pet fur.

Your mother may be overly attached to the idea of having a newborn/infant because they are solely dependant on the parent for everything and don't have personalities of their own.

I don't blame you for not wanting to have an infant around dirty/cluttered places. ScarletOlive has a good question, though: if you mother wasn't a factor, would you want children?

[XL]

Like I said, it was always a "maybe, if I had finished some other stuff and had money". Having kids was never a "bucket list" thing to do.


I'm more baffled that other people do these things. I really can't wrap my head around the emotions involved. Stable, committed suburban lives just seem foreign and weird to me now. I get uneasy just visiting these types of households. I never developed any favorable attitudes towards "stable" homes. 

[chriskell]

I agree that you have good insight and are wise to think these issues through. I got married at 32 and had 3 kids in my thirties. I didn't understand the extent of my BPD mom's problems until I married and had my own kids because that is when she turned on me and began treating me like I was the enemy. I cannot give you advice but only can share my own experiences. In my case, my children (and husband) have been a source of joy for me. I have learned that I am not like my mother because I see my children as individuals. I am not like my mother because I do not abuse my children. I am not like her because I can take responsibility for my actions and apologize to my children when I am wrong or lose my temper. I can teach my children to take responsibility for their actions. My older brother was also afraid to marry and have children because of fears of the kind of parent he would be based on our childhood, but 25 years later he has been a great dad whose kids love him. My mother has 14 wonderful grandchildren and only minimal contact with any of them due to the way she has treated her kids and their spouses. My mother took enough away from me, and I'm glad she didn't take my opportunity to have a family. Not right for everyone, but it was right for me.

[XL]

Thanks. I feel I am correct in thinking this is a potential issue. I'm in my mid 30s and am just now feeling like I could become stable enough to consider these things. I was chatting with a good friend who is bi-polar with a bad home and she and I agreed having kids in our early 20s without a bunch of time and therapy would have been a total nightmare.

[OnlyChild]

I decided long ago not to have kids.  Mostly because I could not fathom taking care of my mom's needs and the needs of a child.   Nor could I fathom having the energy.    I'm now in my 7th year of a rocky marriage, in which I have ran from him multiple times.    I fear if I fully commit, I will lose myself.   I'm sure that has everything to do with losing myself to my mom's needs.    How does one free themselves of this horror?

[XL]

I'm actually stable and happy in a relationship, but the actual "signing the paper/inviting people to the party/buying a house and living together in said house" is NOT looking like I can handle it. We're in a low-contact, commuter relationship.

Our relationship is the opposite of enmeshed. We don't share money, food, chores, vehicles. Nothing. We just hang out twice a week. I can't handle "slightly dependent". I guess that's one way to "free yourself" but most people see our arrangement as weird for our ages.

[TheRightPond]

My mom repeatedly telling me having babies ruined her voice. How kids ruined her dancing career. How she dropped out of college because I had the flu when I was 3, and how her whole life was ruined from that. Bitterly telling me never to settle down or learn how to cook or clean when I was like 7. Telling me I was never allowed to get married, and how they wouldn't contribute any money anyway (for no reason, this was out of the blue at dinner when I was 20)... .

I'm just baffled that every major life event people are supposed to do in our society was preemptively ruined for me.

Firstly, whoa. I just joined and I'm repeatedly shocked by how many people heard identical/similar things. My mother told me that having me had ruined her hair (it was tightly curled and thinning) and that no man would ever want me because I'm too [insert whatever quality she was accusing me of having on a given day]. People make certain sacrifices when they choose to have children -- that part is normal. Telling a 6-year-old that they ought to be thankful for their existence because their mother gave up these wonderful things to have them is ~ty telling them that over and over is abusive.

Secondly, I felt the same way for a very, very long time even without having her around. She impulsively moved away while I was in high school and I maintained the estrangement because my life improved so dramatically (even though I was 18 and supporting myself).

I was dead set against having kids until I started working with adolescents in a state psychiatric facility. They liked me for some reason and the super cynical ones who couldn't look at a pdoc without rolling their eyes would talk to me. It registered that I had something to offer. Through veterinary work and tutoring an autistic girl I became acquainted with theories and techniques from behaviorism.

In romantic/peer relationships I have trouble. I constantly wonder, "Why are you being so good to me? What did I do to deserve this?" when my boyfriend is sweet and just plain awesome. I irrationally feel like a burden and shy away from discussing matters that are closest to my heart which makes me "a hard person to get to know" but I'm working on fixing that.

One of the things that is most important to me (that I have a terrible time articulating) is that the final step of getting out and declaring victory over my former family is to establish a new one based on love, stability, empathy, and encouragement.

[XL]

One of the things that is most important to me (that I have a terrible time articulating) is that the final step of getting out and declaring victory over my former family is to establish a new one based on love, stability, empathy, and encouragement.

I'm trying to go through the motions of this. The "stability" part is the thorn. I have more of a "thrive where you're thrown" attitude. It permeates a lot of what I do. I don't decorate. I don't make long term plans. I keep a minimalist life with nothing that can't be moved.

I have a hard time with jobs too. I work well with a lot of people for a short amount of time, but I don't want or need a "work family". Companies that value "work as family" freak me out.

[TheRightPond]

One of the things that is most important to me (that I have a terrible time articulating) is that the final step of getting out and declaring victory over my former family is to establish a new one based on love, stability, empathy, and encouragement.

I'm trying to go through the motions of this. The "stability" part is the thorn. I have more of a "thrive where you're thrown" attitude. It permeates a lot of what I do. I don't decorate. I don't make long term plans. I keep a minimalist life with nothing that can't be moved.

Is it actually something that you want, though? If you are satisfied with your life and your relationships, it might not be worth messing with. Victory comes in many forms. Maybe yours is having absolute freedom to move around as you see fit (or becoming a Buddhist monk without social or material attachments).

[Elfie]

I'm a little late to this topic, but figured I'd add my 2 cents.

I've certainly had thoughts about not having kids - for fear of passing on "flawed genes", fear that I'd be "bad parent". While my brother is the uBPD in my life, my mother (and certainly her mother) have/had, I believe, some BPD-esque traits. Addictive personalities also run rampant in my family (both sides).

I have this fear that no matter how hard I try/what I do, I might have a child like my brother. I don't know if I could take that. I guess I could if it happened, but it's what I think. I also fear acting like my mother did when I was younger (strict punishments, controlling, not validating). Hopefully I'll keep working through it all... .

[charred]

I decided long ago not to have kids.  Mostly because I could not fathom taking care of my mom's needs and the needs of a child.   Nor could I fathom having the energy.    I'm now in my 7th year of a rocky marriage, in which I have ran from him multiple times.    I fear if I fully commit, I will lose myself.   I'm sure that has everything to do with losing myself to my mom's needs.    How does one free themselves of this horror?

You get help from a professional... . if it were self help you would have done it by now. I am 50 and have always thought I could do anything I put my mind too, but I didn't succeed in self-diagnosing or self fixing my problems. Was an anxious mess when I finally was at my wits end and went to a T... and he made a huge difference with the anxiety and ruminating about my r/s with a pwBPD... so kept digging and found I had a lot of undealt with old issues from my FOO... . and from what you said, you may as well. Could be that you could overcome fear of committing, or realize the r/s isn't right, or that you are not your mom and have your own life and right to be happy. T is a bit more than taking care of your hair in a salon... but many would argue its more important... . I would.

[Cordelia]

One of the things that is most important to me (that I have a terrible time articulating) is that the final step of getting out and declaring victory over my former family is to establish a new one based on love, stability, empathy, and encouragement.

I'm trying to go through the motions of this. The "stability" part is the thorn. I have more of a "thrive where you're thrown" attitude. It permeates a lot of what I do. I don't decorate. I don't make long term plans. I keep a minimalist life with nothing that can't be moved.

You know, this is totally fine.  Why not keep living this way if it makes you happy?  I live in a big urban area and I know lots of older ladies, many of them divorced, who have been living in their tiny urban apartments for decades, filled with mementos from their world travels.  Many have cats.  They go to the opera or symphony frequently and have strong opinions about cultural matters.  They often have a hobby that they are very good at and committed to, and have a strong group of friends interested in the same hobby (ethnic music, folk dancing, etc.)  It's a nice life!  Simple, serene.  They often have roommates to keep them company, often international travelers who stay for six months or a year and then move on after teaching them how to make some exotic dishes or a few words in their language.  They often date, but don't marry. 

There are lots of ways to live.  Who's to say that 2.2 kids in the suburbs is the way to go for you?  If it really were, likely you'd be feeling a pull in that direction.  You're not.  So trust yourself.  It doesn't sound like you're SCARED of kids and marriage. It sounds like you don't think they'd make you happy.  And why should they?  Maybe you have other types of things you want to do.

For me I lived this kind of freewheeling world traveling single life for quite a long time, and was very happy doing it.  Then I fell in love with a guy who wanted kids, and I found the travel and the single life to be getting dull and tiresome, so I figured I would try out a new lifestyle, as a new type of adventure.  It's not really about fixing my past or about proving any point about how I will be a better mother than my mom, or anything like that.  It's just what seems fun and interesting to me right now.  There is a part of me that really craves stability, I love the idea of being able to travel and experience lots of things, but feeling that there's a place I belong and people I can rely on when I need them has healed me in a really deep way.  Still getting married and buying a house isn't the only - or necessarily the best! - way of getting that sense of belonging.  It could also be a group of friends, a meditation center, a musical group, almost anything really.  And it sounds like that may not even be what you want right now.  Maybe you prefer freedom to security at this moment. 

Whatever it is you want, accept yourself.  Your life doesn't have to look like anyone else's, and other people's lives don't have to look like yours.  Isn't there some saying - one man's meat is another man's poison? 

[silent_tsol]

Marriage not so much but having kids, yes.  As well as the uBPD sister, my family is not in short supply of other mental illnesses so I worry my children would not do well genetically. 

[Maryiscontrary]

What an awesome thread. I am a biologist and have very carefully examined our family tree. I don't think our family has any business extending the genetic trail. Drug abuse, mental illness run rampant on both sides, generation after generation. There are many of my friends kids who need an aunt.

I admire people who make great parents, but in this day and time, you have to really, really be dedicated to the cause. Too many people get in over their head. Too many single parents. Very small or nonexistent extended families. Scattered families. If you look at societies that really value children, then you see a much stronger and larger family unit that is there for support. There is no rush to get the kids out of the house. This is much different from the many westernized societies.

There are many kids I play aunt to. It does take a village.

And marriage. In our collapsing society where nothing seems to be valued, it seems rather risky to join financial and legal bonds together for almost any reason. I have been damaged by it every time.