I think ex may be getting engaged 5 months after leaving

[clairedair]

Long-term marriage and history of recycling several times in last few years - including once after our divorce last year.  Each time he left, he recycled a relationship with the same person.  Last time he left, he got into a relationship with someone new and it seems to be all rainbows and sunshine. 

My ex is travelling some distance to meet up with our eldest and then is taking other kids out when he gets back.  The way he has been and the way he worded the text to me has got me thinking that he's about to either announce they are moving in together or getting married.  I know he talked marriage early on with previous gf but we were not divorced at the time.

Feel weird.  On the one hand, I'm quite clear this time that I have had enough and I'm actually grateful to the new one for keeping him occupied as I don't think I've had such a long spell without being blamed for something.  But I haven't slept well since the text and was aware of losing concentration at work. I don't feel that she's someone more wonderful/caring etc than I am - I know this wouldn't reflect on me.

But, I'm doing that ruminating thing where you remember how bizarrely everything ended; the confusion of the mixed messages; the speed of his new relationship.  I really don't want his behaviour getting to me like this but how do you stop thoughts?

I'm so frustrated that this stuff still has the power to wind me up so much and prevent me getting on with my life and I'm wondering how the kids will feel (I suspect they might actually be relieved because it means he'll not come back and upset me)

Of course, it could just be that he's wanting to spend time with the kids but based on past experience and the experiences of many people here, I don't think it's totally unreasonable to be thinking that it's possible they're engaged after 4 months together.

[mango_flower]

Urgh, well you know my story... .  (she got engaged to her new gf 3 months after she left me!)

It's horrible. I'm sorry.  It's so confusing - on one hand you're relieved, as it's like "well, somebody else will be their focus now and I can move on" but on the other hand it's so hurtful - like you didn't mean as much as you thought. It makes you question everything.  And the fact you were married to him too - it must completely be messing with your head.

I do understand the confusion and how they still seem to have a psychological grip over you - and as you have children, there will still be some degree of contact.  I have to admit that although I was heartbroken when she got engaged, there was also an element of relief... .  

The only thing that has helped for me (and even then, not that much) is to keep up with the self-talk "She's engaged to somebody else now".  It helps when people refer to her as "somebody else's problem".   

Maybe write a list of all the things SHE will now have to deal with, that you are free from... .  it does hurt to focus on the negative but it's a good thing in a way. 

All you can do is take it day at a time.  I wish I had more helpful advice for you - I'm sorry.  Just wanted to let you know I really do understand your confusion about how you should be feeling x

[clairedair]

thanks mango-flower

it may all be over nothing but I am so used to something major happening just when I need some calm.  I have an interview coming up and, I kid you not, he's dropped a bombshell every time I've had one in last year.  I'm trying hard to move jobs as I work in a dysfunctional environment and I've had enough dysfunction for a lifetime (including my own!).

i actually have dreams of bombs falling!

He does seem more settled but I can't convince myself that he's suddenly found inner peace and joy.  Part of why I continued to recycle, stay connected to him was because I couldn't bear to see the pain he was in.  I genuinely don't want him to feel so hurt and lonely as he does at times but isn't it so gut-wrenchingly twisted that they seem to find someone wonderful instantly and we're still trying to work out what the h**l happened at the time of the break-up?

[mango_flower]

He does seem more settled but I can't convince myself that he's suddenly found inner peace and joy.  Part of why I continued to recycle, stay connected to him was because I couldn't bear to see the pain he was in.  I genuinely don't want him to feel so hurt and lonely as he does at times but isn't it so gut-wrenchingly twisted that they seem to find someone wonderful instantly and we're still trying to work out what the h**l happened at the time of the break-up?

That's the million dollar question - it definitely seems that way.  Just to give you an example (and sorry to bring it back to myself again!) she is on cloud 9 at the moment, in a little bubble of love, with a girl who seems to be pretty flippin' perfect!  Whilst I am missing her, pining for her, getting through each day and just waiting to crawl back into bed, in between planning to move house, sell everything that was ours (stressful!) and work out how to pay our bills she's just dodged, and panicking about stuff not bouncing out of the bank.  It just seems unfair!

And then part of you is happy if he's genuinely found that... .  because then you can stop worrying so much. But then you feel resentful, like "Oh how didn't he find inner peace with ME?".  But rest assured, he will never just be fixed due to finding the right one, it's just a mask, it will unravel at some point - and he'll be back where he was.  And we need to get you to that place where you feel strong again and will not recycle.   x

[clairedair]

mango-flower

aren't we good at giving each other advice!  Now to apply it to ourselves 

Am going to try to get some sleep now and not dream about bombs.  Pesky unconscious - can't control what it's going to throw at you at 4am.

Don't apologise for talking about your story - that's the great thing about coming here.  You realise that others are going through something similar and having same conflicting and exhausting thoughts.

[mango_flower]

Good night - no bad dreams!  I'm going to post about dreams soon x

[kahnighit]

Urgh, well you know my story... .  (she got engaged to her new gf 3 months after she left me!)

It's horrible. I'm sorry.  It's so confusing - on one hand you're relieved, as it's like "well, somebody else will be their focus now and I can move on" but on the other hand it's so hurtful - like you didn't mean as much as you thought. It makes you question everything.  And the fact you were married to him too - it must completely be messing with your head.

^^ this!

My ex managed it in 3 months after 4 years with her.  No on/off or recycling with her.  Hard break then 2 weeks for new bf and 3 months for engagement.  She texted me the night of the engagement something along the lines of "how are you.  I do care."  I didn't respond, initially.  Was doing really well with the NC thing.  A couple of days later I find out the significance of the date/text.  RAGE!  But what was feeding it was I was convinced her text was an intention to gloat.  So I loop-holed breaking NC by contacting her new SO.   

Told him about her disorder. gave him links to read.  Sent him a screen shot of her text message from the night of his engagement and pointed out how twisted it is for someone to contact their ex on the night of their engagement.  Sent him a link to the nude photo she posted of herself online where only I would know about it a mere week earlier.  Pointed out how classy that was.  Wished him luck.

No response.  2 days go by and the whole "how am I so easily replaced" thing hits me.  I legitimately break NC.  Wasted time, effort, energy there.  Only thing new that came of it was I finally confronted her on her supposed cancer.  Denial was the response.  Least I got it off my chest.

This past tuesday she texts me and tells me he broke the engagement.  Another long text conversation.  Funny how every time I ask a question it only leads to a dozen new ones.  She tries to hit me with some "i was talking with someone just the other day about all your good qualities,"  "No one knows you as well as i do," mixed in with some "your family thinks you're worthless and you buy into that too much," "If we both admitted our faults we'd get a whole lot further."  Yay FOG!

She does admit to completely blowing off her cancer treatments which is an admission of 2 years of lies upon lies.

I don't believe any of it.  I don't believe that the engagement is broken.  I don't believe that she just simply blew off cancer treatment.  Over the next couple days I wrote a 3000 word letter as a response.  I have decided not to send it but what doing so clarified for me was that it is impossible for me to believe anything she has to say at this point and her motives are never clear.  Truth, resolution, catharsis will not be found through contact with her.

Sorry, I went a little off topic there.  Anyway, I definitively know that she will not find peace until she actively seeks treatment for her disorder.  She prefers sticking her head in the sand and taking pills to treat it.  Her cycle will repeat endlessly until she decides to stop it.  When she told me the engagement was broken she said, "he didn't break it off because of my crazy he did it because he missed his family in (wherever).  We don't fight."  I thought to myself, of course you don't fight you've not had enough time.

Anyway, I relate to the whole bad timing thing as well.  Every time I start sleeping normally and becoming productive again she pops up.  Once I got over the initial 2 weeks of stress related to her engagement I settled into solace of her being distracted and not my problem.  Now that it's supposedly off I'm stressing about her coming knocking again.  Assuming it's true she contacted me the next day.  If not then she's simply trying to cultivate backup plans.  Either way one friend suggests it'll be a couple days before she tries to contact me again, another says 2 weeks.  I'm putting it at a month but that's simply because I was ruthless regarding her blowing off getting treatment (specifically cancer but BPD implied as well) while being the mother of a 6 year old.

I'm blocking her number but that's turning out to be more complicated than it should be.  AT&T charges for it and apparently iphones imessage system ignores that feature anyway.  How many irritations can one pack into one person?

[clairedair]

kahnighit

I don't think you were going off topic.  I think it's just the nature of this that we start off with one thought and then stray off into others because nothing makes sense and once we start trying to put it into words, we just go on and on!

I was interested in what you said about the letter.  3000 words!  I think my record was a 17-pager  I started an e-mail last night but he only uses a work address so am not keen to sent it there.  Then spent a good bit of today trying to compose a letter.  Now thinking I'll just leave it. The letter was about the break-up (or rather the lack of notification that we had broken up) and I was wanting to send it to him before finding out he was definitely engaged because I'm pretty sure he'd just ignore it or belittle it as 'hell hath no fury like a woman scorned'.

But, as you say in the post, one questions leads to several more and this has been my experience in the past so I'll sleep on it and probably end up adding it to the 50 others I've started over the last few years and not sent!

I feel a bit calmer tonight.  Have been through so much that I am feeling that the more he's caught up feeling good with her, the less he'll disrupt my life.  I think what I find difficult is that we were married a long time, we have kids, and I am having trouble letting go of the illusion of a family life together.

Part of me wonders if this relationship will actually work.  He did apologise to me for his abuse and was seeing a T.  I think his new partner is someone he has known via work so it's not someone he'd just met.  But I do feel that it would have been healthier for him to have taken some time out from relationships and work on a relationship with himself.

I hope I can take my own advice about working on one's self and really detach myself from his actions.    I don't think I'd be human if I didn't feel something when someone I'd been married to 20+ years got engaged within six months of a break up but If he is moving in/getting engaged/emigrating or whatever, I want it not to affect me too badly.

Hope you manage to get some sleep and build up some resilience in case she comes around again... .  I'm assuming a reconciliation would not be welcome?

[kahnighit]

Clair,

I agree with your observation of how threads evolve here. 

I've gone back and forth on actually sending the letter.  Initially i think the motive was something along the lines of "after everything you've done you will suffer me and hear my words!"  Then it became more of a putting thoughts down to sort out my feelings.  I have a tendency to compartmentalize emotions in such a way that they are allowed expression through anger or in extremely rare cases sadness.  The mind also races so it helps to nail the thoughts down for re-visitation later.  It boiled down to something like 4 major topics

1) This so-called engagement... .  assessment is I have no idea what's actually going on as she is a completely unreliable source of information.  I also took time to illustrate how the whole thing was a terrible idea and called into question his "quality" along with pointing out why she was destined to destroy it anyway.

2) Cancer: Don't believe her when she says she just blew off treatment. Again, poor source for information.  If true what that says about her as a person, friend and most importantly parent.

3) General assessment of her as a person: She is the personification of a Question Mark.

4) Kind of the cathartic realization that there's really no point in saying any of this to her and, in fact, may actually be detrimental to me. 

So as it stands, I'm not going to send it.  I've been debating the last day or so sending a final text message saying something along the lines of "Wrote an epic 3000 word letter in response to our last conversation.  Not going to send it for two reasons.  A) won't change anything  B) you don't deserve that kind of access.  I'm blocking your phone number and email addresses.  See you in hell."

I cannot imagine how difficult this must be for you having been married for so long and having kids.  Going into this relationship I was pretty sure I would never have kids because of how selfish I knew I could be.  Likewise I only ever saw the need to get married as a precursor for having children for legal reasons.  I don't believe I need to stand in front of god or state in order to validate a promise i make to someone I love.  Well she changed my mind on having kids.  I came to being able to envision getting married and having kids with her and it's just one more thing I'm bitter about.  However, I am grateful it never got that far with her.  So when I say the pain, sadness and anger have been soul crushing for me I don't know how I could relate to what you're going through. 

I don't know if his new relationship will work.  If he really is seeing a T than I suppose he's improved his chances.  marginally.  The thing is, with something as pervasive as this disorder if he really works at it.  Takes it very seriously, etc.  Who he is a year from now will be nothing like his current self.  They suggest recovering addicts stay completely out of relationships the first year of treatment due to the intense changes they will experience and the likelihood of a new relationship undermining their growth.

It is so hard to detach though.  Particularly due to all the ways the BPD works at enmeshing themselves into one's identity, self worth, etc.  I was everything and now I'm nothing, disposable, an afterthought.  I find myself pondering this often, "how is it possible for you to jump into this new relationship after all the time we've been together and not be distracted by all the little things that remind you of me?  How can you be so adept at deluding yourself?  Not only that, how could you possibly have convinced your new partner that you're past all of that?"  OK, so there's a high likelihood that the new partner is just an idiot.  But beyond that it's just insulting. 

I guess that's just me doing what they do so well in being egocentric with regard to how I see relationships.  Clearly she believes that someone merely paying attention to her is enough to love them and thus her paying attention to them should be enough to love her.  I couldn't imagine starting a new relationship right now.  I'm too unclear in the head and doing so would just kill any new relationship before it even got off the ground.  I want to assume it's that way for her.  That it's not just seems unfair.  I'm still burdened and grieving while she's off playing house, drinking, etc.

I want the scales balanced.  Perhaps it's fixating on the negative and thus unhealthy but reminding myself that she's ill, tortured, lacks identity, convictions, etc and on some level knows those things about herself does even things out.  Sort of.  Sometimes.

I'm sure she'll attempt something sooner rather than later.  There is no reconciliation to be had.  In some ways I think I'm lucky due to the depth of the deceit.  There's really only two explanantions for the cancer: A) some sort of Munchhausen Syndrome sufferer who never actually had it or B) really did completely ignore all treatment.  Either way for the better part of 2 years she played the cancer card for all it was worth: excusing her erratic behavior, bailing on work, getting me to dote upon her a thousand different ways unquestioningly.  She owes thousands of apologies to hundreds of people.  I can name at least a dozen that were unknowingly complicit in her lies regarding this.  At this point I could almost say I know more definitively about you than I do her.  The only place I'm going to find reconciliation, truth, catharsis and closure with regards to her is within myself.  Bitter about that too. :P

I hope it doesn't affect you too badly as well.  I wish there was some instant solution we all could partake in and get back to being whole and happy.  I guess in the meantime there's solace in knowing that feeling and dealing with all this turmoil and fallout is one of the things that separates us from them.

SERENITY NOW!

[clairedair]

Initially i think the motive was something along the lines of "after everything you've done you will suffer me and hear my words!"  Then it became more of a putting thoughts down to sort out my feelings. 

Same for me.  He's left several times and the break-ups follow two patterns - I either get a 'leaving speech' that is pretty much the same words/calm tone each time or he sort of disappears and it takes a couple of weeks to realise he's gone.  In both cases, I don't feel he hears what I need him to hear so the break-up is worse because whilst he's off to his new, improved life, I'm reeling with questions feeling like a mug.  Or I'm worried about him or too angry to talk and then feel guilty that I'm not doing what's best for kids by keeping good communication with their father.  So then the letter or a journal becomes a way of getting my painful feelings onto paper so my head doesn't explode.

Kind of the cathartic realization that there's really no point in saying any of this to her and, in fact, may actually be detrimental to me.

Sadly, I think this is true.  The times I have sent a letter or had a long phone call where I expressed my feelings, I got a response along the lines of 'your feelings are your responsibility' or 'you sound depressed - you should see someone' or I got an earful about all the things I'd done wrong.  Yep - it was usually detrimental to me.  So you are damned if you do send the letter (because you get invalidated or abused) and you're damned if you don't (because you don't get the chance to express yourself).

I've been debating the last day or so sending a final text message saying something along the lines of "Wrote an epic 3000 word letter in response to our last conversation.  Not going to send it for two reasons.  A) won't change anything  B) you don't deserve that kind of access.  I'm blocking your phone number and email addresses.  See you in hell."

The great thing about these boards is that we can type out these kinds of thoughts and people here can empathise.  I am much harsher about my exH here than I would be otherwise because, ultimately, I do still care and see that he is ill; he's still my kids' dad and I'm not normally a bitter person.  However, there are times of real anger and rage towards him and I need to write it out here.  I could certainly write something like the above but I think that if I sent it, I would feel worse afterwards and would feel that he had pushed me into doing something that wasn't really me - yet again!  Plus, if you say 'see you in hell', it implies that you are going there too and she'll probably take that as confirmation that you are the world's worst sinner!   

I came to being able to envision getting married and having kids with her and it's just one more thing I'm bitter about.  However, I am grateful it never got that far with her.  So when I say the pain, sadness and anger have been soul crushing for me I don't know how I could relate to what you're going through.

I'm sorry to hear this.  Maybe one positive from this is that you can see the possibility having a family  - just with someone else.  I don't regret marrying him - a lot of it has been good and we have great kids.  It does mean that it's impossible to completely detach and I find that a real drawback in trying to move on.  I would say I am past the soul crushing stage - the first few break-ups and his pattern of going straight to another relationship nearly destroyed me.  Over time, I've been much more able to depersonalise the actions/words but I have held on to a belief that it was me he really wanted to be with and that his pain and fears got in the way.  So what is sad and painful now is letting go of that and having to accept that in the last few years, I have just been another way of dealing with difficult feelings - another bandaid.

I realised this morning that the thought of him getting engaged again isn't actually what's bothering me.  What's keeping me unsettled is that if he has got engaged or moved in with her, it just reinforces the idea that I was an 'option' not the 'one' and I am probably more angry with myself than him for allowing this!

If he really is seeing a T than I suppose he's improved his chances.  marginally. 

... .  

It is so hard to detach though.  Particularly due to all the ways the BPD works at enmeshing themselves into one's identity, self worth, etc.  I was everything and now I'm nothing, disposable, an afterthought.  I find myself pondering this often, "how is it possible for you to jump into this new relationship after all the time we've been together and not be distracted by all the little things that remind you of me?  How can you be so adept at deluding yourself?  Not only that, how could you possibly have convinced your new partner that you're past all of that?"  OK, so there's a high likelihood that the new partner is just an idiot.  But beyond that it's just insulting. 

He has seen Ts for years.  He works in a caring profession and offers counselling himself.  There have been times of great insight and sincere apologies.  But then the pattern repeats.  He has difficulty really trusting T which is sad.  Part of why I kept trying to continue the relationship was because I knew T could take years (and I was also working through my own stuff) and I believed that we loved each other and that if we were both working on ourselves, our relationship would eventually be a healthy one.  If therapy was really working for him, I don't think he would have got into such a serious, intense relationship so soon but if therapy had been working for me, I would not have reconciled with him!

Has your ex ever seen a T? 

I want the scales balanced.  Perhaps it's fixating on the negative and thus unhealthy but reminding myself that she's ill, tortured, lacks identity, convictions, etc and on some level knows those things about herself does even things out.  Sort of.  Sometimes.

Human response.  I think we all struggle with the injustice of it all (including at times feeling that it's unfair that they have to suffer this illness).  I think for me, the best way to balance the scales will be for me to live a healthier, happier, more fulfilling life.  A life where I'm not frustrated because he 'seems' to be in love, financially better off, getting promoted etc.  This is the hard work I have to do now.  As I said above, the 'soul crushing' feeling has mostly passed but I do feel kinda 'paralysed'.  I have a job, a home, reasonable health etc but I've been going nowhere for a few years now and have almost trapped myself because I put so much resource (emotional, financial etc) into the relationship.  I feel as if I've been to Vegas gambling long past the point where it was obvious I wasn't going to win!  Now I have to be compassionate with myself and really pull myself out of the mire that I'm partly responsible for getting into.  I feel so tired and don't want to have to summon the energy to do this but I've just spent the weekend watching repeats of NCIS instead of preparing for a job interview!

I'm sure she'll attempt something sooner rather than later.  There is no reconciliation to be had.  In some ways I think I'm lucky due to the depth of the deceit.  There's really only two explanantions for the cancer: A) some sort of Munchhausen Syndrome sufferer who never actually had it or B) really did completely ignore all treatment.  Either way for the better part of 2 years she played the cancer card for all it was worth: excusing her erratic behavior, bailing on work, getting me to dote upon her a thousand different ways unquestioningly.  S

The whole thing about the cancer sounds like a level of pain that I didn't have to deal with.  I've not had to deal with the confusion of lies and misinformation. You must worry about her child and yet you have to let that go too because you need to detach.

I wish there was some instant solution we all could partake in and get back to being whole and happy.  I guess in the meantime there's solace in knowing that feeling and dealing with all this turmoil and fallout is one of the things that separates us from them.

SERENITY NOW!

I think this is the difference.  Our partners want the magic wand solution that another relationship appears to offer whilst we know that we have to deal with the grief of losing the relationship and our hopes and dreams with it.  Every now and again, I decide that I'll do what he does and just move on quickly, distract myself with work etc but I see the pain and destruction it causes in the lives of the people who love him and I can't do it.

Serenity sounds like a good thing to be aiming for.  Hope you are finding your way there.

take care

Claire

[laelle]

"Sadly, I think this is true.  The times I have sent a letter or had a long phone call where I expressed my feelings, I got a response along the lines of 'your feelings are your responsibility' or 'you sound depressed - you should see someone' or I got an earful about all the things I'd done wrong.  Yep - it was usually detrimental to me.  So you are damned if you do send the letter (because you get invalidated or abused) and you're damned if you don't (because you don't get the chance to express yourself)."

I could not agree more with your statement here.  

"I feel as if I've been to Vegas gambling long past the point where it was obvious I wasn't going to win!  Now I have to be compassionate with myself and really pull myself out of the mire that I'm partly responsible for getting into."

Exactly!

My ex went to the doctor a few times a week.  He always had something wrong with him that could never be explained or cured.  I had heard him say so many times I just want to stop hurting but they cant find out whats wrong.  He made mention a few times that his ex and some healthcare professionals thought it was emotional induced illness, but he said they were useless.

[clairedair]

Thanks laelle - I know from your posts that you have been through a lot lately.

I'm sitting here still contemplating phoning him/e-mailing/writing because I'm sick of having all this stuff going around my head. But your post is validation that this would be futile and only hurt me.  I've been wanting to write to him for a while but if I send it now and he has got engaged, he'll accuse me of trying to interfere with his new-found happiness.

I am realising more and more that, for me, the recycles were a lot to do with having a time where we both talked and talked and I really did feel that he heard me and that he was sincerely sorry for things he'd said/done but it would only take a couple of months before the silences, withdrawal of support and affection started again.  I think he began to feel the weight of the hurt he had caused and it was easier to pull away, blame me and move on than stay and deal with it.

I should know in a couple of hours whether or not he's got some big announcement.  I'm relatively calm because I feel that my frustration these past few days is really more about me and about wondering how I let myself be subject to past hurts rather than about him.  He sent a postcard to the house a couple of weeks ago as he was away on a trip.  It was to the children and signed 'love Dad and xxxx(gf)' .  I felt a physical reaction - not about his being away with her (whisking new love away is par for course and I've enjoyed a few trips myself  )  but a reaction to his thinking it appropriate to send a postcard to my house.  But the reaction was very brief and the postcard is still displayed proudly in the living room to remind me how fortunate I am to be off the rollercoaster!

We'll see - might be back here in a few hours a complete wreck but hope not.

take care

Claire

[clairedair]

You're the first to hear the good news - exH has got engaged and is getting married in a couple of months.

He did something similar before with someone else but at the time we were not divorced so the engagement wasn't official and most people don't know he planned this.  Of course, he told me all about it one of the times we got back together.  Weirdly, I'm wondering what his poor ex-fiancee will feel when she finds out that she held on for years because she was convinced he just needed to properly leave me and now he's marrying someone else.  He left her just as our divorce became final and just at the point where he could have married her, he reconciled with me (my bad!)

Because he has worked with his new fiancee for a few years, he can say that the relationship is not that new.  What others don't know is that he had a very brief relationship with her 18 months ago and since then has been with me twice and the ex-fiancee once.  Now they are getting married 6 months after starting to date officially. The proposed date falls a year from the day that we started a wonderful weekend away together.

I'm not surprised. Not even too bothered.  Because I have been through so many recycles and other abuses that I know this does not say anything about my value as a person.  And I feel that if he is happy with her, he will stay away from me altogether and I can get on with my life at last.  I am sad though - it would have been our 25th anniversary a couple of months after he's planning on getting married again.  I have been grieving the loss of an illusion that seemed so real not that long ago.

Kids are my main concern.  They don't seem too upset - they are a bit surprised at the speed of it but given his patterns of behaviour not that surprised.  I have reassured them that I am not falling to pieces this time - they have had to deal with that before.  It was pointed out by one that their future step-mother has 3 children that they've not even met yet!

[kahnighit]

I could certainly write something like the above but I think that if I sent it, I would feel worse afterwards and would feel that he had pushed me into doing something that wasn't really me - yet again!  Plus, if you say 'see you in hell', it implies that you are going there too and she'll probably take that as confirmation that you are the world's worst sinner!   Devilish

I don't know.  Maybe it's because I learned vindictiveness from my mother or maybe I've adopted some of the BPD traits through exposure but I don't think I'd be remorseful over saying that.  It also could just be pushback from all those times I bit my tongue.  Kind of an, "I'm justified in saying to you whatever comes to mind without running it through the filter.  Good for the goose, right?"  I posted in another thread that I think to some degree the vitreol that pours from me when we interact is a defense mechanism.   When she finally admitted to blowing off treatment all I said in response was, "way to be a responsible parent." She in turn said, "you're right."  I followed up with "The upside to all this is she'll be better off once you're gone which should be soon, right?"  She completely shut down then and ended the conversation with "Saw a show you might like called xxxxxxx.  Have a good night."  The contempt is a constant, consistant unwavering wall against her ploys.  I do need to replace it with a wall of silence though. 

As far as the see you in hell thing.  It was kind of a running joke.  There's a Mark Twain quote that goes something like "chose Heaven for the climate, Hell for the company."  Beyond that I was raised Catholic and once I came of age became a bad Catholic.  So I regularly joke that Hell will be my eternal residence.  She claims she converted to Catholicism but I have a sneaking suspicion that she only did that to gain acceptance with me and my family.  Yet another potentially morally reprehensible con which, if true and if there's any truth to the afterlife doctrine of said religion, she's got a seat waiting there for her.

Over time, I've been much more able to depersonalise the actions/words but I have held on to a belief that it was me he really wanted to be with and that his pain and fears got in the way.

  I struggle with this at times too.  Particularly and irritatingly this last time she contacted me.  There was solace in all those plans and visions of a future.  Just the comfort of knowing that whatever else was up in the air concerning career, future, etc at least that part was locked down.  I suppose there were fleeting moments where he/she did want us.  It's immaterial now.  Makes me think of another quote "how did it come to this?"

Part of why I kept trying to continue the relationship was because I knew T could take years (and I was also working through my own stuff) and I believed that we loved each other and that if we were both working on ourselves, our relationship would eventually be a healthy one.  If therapy was really working for him, I don't think he would have got into such a serious, intense relationship so soon but if therapy had been working for me, I would not have reconciled with him!

Has your ex ever seen a T?

The last weeks of our relationship were a series of cascading events.  She had seen various therapists for years.  Most diagnosed depression, anxiety disorder, bipolar or bipolar-spectrum.  All just handed her pills and sent her on her way.  She started with a new T maybe a month before the breakup on the heels of a particularly violent outburst by her and subsequent "time out" at her mother's house.  The new T diagnosed BPD pretty much immediately while giving reasons for all the previous diagnoses being wrong.  Anyway, I'd heard of it and done light reading on the matter but never really delved into it.  The new T prescribed some heavy duty pills to manage/stabilize her but said actual therapy, while suggested, she wasn't going to make her do until it was what she wanted.  So after an entire weekend of dis-regulation due to the drugs and the concussion she gave herself, and I do mean every waking moment, where I was being harassed about my level of commitment, that I'm going to leave, etc... . I started really reading up on this disorder.  In retrospect it probably wasn't a good idea to tell her that all future plans are on hold until she has a handle on this disorder.  Though a rational though poorly timed and worded considering her state.  So, I have her mother watch her for a night as i need a break and the next morning I find out she's been on online dating sites trolling for attention.  Now at this point I may have stuck around had she given me two things: an acknowledgement of the betrayal of trust that the online dating thing was without rationalization, justification or attempts to shift blame for it onto me and a commitment to therapy.  Neither was possible.  Still isn't.  Soon after the cancer ruse came to light and it just got worse and worse. 

Love and what it means, what it should make me/you/her/him capable of got thrown around a lot over the course of my r/s.  My feeling on her use of the word and concept at this point is that "love" is a tool for leverage.  You wanna dysregulate a BPD?  When they say "I love you" don't say it back.  BOOM.  My love for her kept me strong and committed in the face of cancer, mortatlity, emotional and violent outbursts.  I don't think she can say the same.  If only because I don't think she sees it as something given with no expectations, strings, caveats or implied contracts.  Maybe she could and doesn't because there's just way too much risk there for a fragile psyche.  Who's to say?  Sometimes I think it really is comparing apples to oranges.  To nons love is often a well of strength to be drawn upon.  I think for BPDs it's more a well of fear.

I think we all struggle with the injustice of it all (including at times feeling that it's unfair that they have to suffer this illness).  I think for me, the best way to balance the scales will be for me to live a healthier, happier, more fulfilling life.  A life where I'm not frustrated because he 'seems' to be in love, financially better off, getting promoted etc.  This is the hard work I have to do now.  As I said above, the 'soul crushing' feeling has mostly passed but I do feel kinda 'paralysed'.  I have a job, a home, reasonable health etc but I've been going nowhere for a few years now and have almost trapped myself because I put so much resource (emotional, financial etc) into the relationship.

What's odd is I find I have little compassion for her in this respect.  Perhaps it's because she used to rail on my ex for scapegoating her childhood abuse for her behaviors.  Would say things like, "she's an adult now.  Get over it! Take responsibility."  Oh, the irony.  I do find it disconcerting, though, when I think of all the times she's accused me of being a compassionate-less/non nurturing person.  Regardless, you're right about balancing the scales through self improvement.  Success is the best revenge, right?  Just so hard to pull oneself out of the mire (i like that you use that word).  I too am emotionally and financially ruined.  Two years I didn't work so i could both support her through cancer treatments and chauffeur her around because of her DUI.  Squandered my savings and maxed out my credit which I am now delinquent on.  Mess mess mess mess.  70 resumes sent out last week.  Two call backs, one interview (for a crappy retail job I am way overqualified for).  It's like each time I send one out its a little rejection waiting to happen.  Sigh.

You must worry about her child and yet you have to let that go too because you need to detach.

  I do but what can I do?  One of my revenge plans is to go to her exH and arm him with all the information I have including offering to testify in a custody grab.  Her mother is informed at this point.  I feel weak for not doing more but, really, what can I do?

Just thinking out loud here as I read back what I've written.  It's something I've been pondering a lot lately.  Have I somehow adopted her splitting tendencies?  I see people such as yourself and mango struggling with their compassion for their ex and it's just not there for me.  I see sentiments such as "it must be so hard for them... . " and I think "eff them and their eternal suffering."  I look back on the history and time with her and as I asses what should be "good" points I am left with the fact that I have no idea if that was true or a fabrication.  So what's good about her?  No idea.  They say evil is the absence of good.  Does that mean the absence of identity, morals, convictions and accountability equates to the absence of worth?  I cant seem to find a different solution to that equation.  Am I painting her black?  Is that an oversimplification spawned out of my emotionally crippled state?

My ex went to the doctor a few times a week.  He always had something wrong with him that could never be explained or cured.

My ex constantly had headaches.  Never seen someone pop so many tylenol and advil.  Apparently it's common for BPDs to do this.  Either looking for attention or some surreptitious way to get others to leave them alone perhaps.

Because he has worked with his new fiancee for a few years, he can say that the relationship is not that new.  What others don't know is that he had a very brief relationship with her 18 months ago and since then has been with me twice and the ex-fiancee once.  Now they are getting married 6 months after starting to date officially.

  Don't know about you but it certainly makes me wonder about the decision making abilities of the new fiancee.  How does one go into this and say to themselves, "oh, yeah.  he's gonna be stable with me though."?  I feel for you though.  The whole them moving on before you can even see straight is just a kick in the groin.  His choice of dates and timing sucks as well.  Then you wonder if that's on purpose and some kind of dig.   

[clairedair]

Success is the best revenge, right?  Just so hard to pull oneself out of the mire (i like that you use that word).  I too am emotionally and financially ruined.  Two years I didn't work so i could both support her through cancer treatments and chauffeur her around because of her DUI.  Squandered my savings and maxed out my credit which I am now delinquent on.  Mess mess mess mess.  70 resumes sent out last week.  Two call backs, one interview (for a crappy retail job I am way overqualified for).  It's like each time I send one out its a little rejection waiting to happen.  Sigh.

Good luck with job hunting.  I'm lucky to be in a job again but want to move.  I've been OK at getting interviews but not at then landing the job - something has always happened just beforehand with ex to put me in a spin and I end up not being prepared.  I also feel anxious about applying because I feel there has been enough rejection for a lifetime.

Don't know about you but it certainly makes me wonder about the decision making abilities of the new fiancee.  How does one go into this and say to themselves, "oh, yeah.  he's gonna be stable with me though."?  I feel for you though.  The whole them moving on before you can even see straight is just a kick in the groin.  His choice of dates and timing sucks as well.  Then you wonder if that's on purpose and some kind of dig.   

I think she's intelligent and very competent in her job so am a bit surprised that she's going along with this but she will only have seen the work side of him initially (he's very good at his job and very compassionate with others) plus many of us here can testify to the intoxicating first stages and the ability of our exes to explain the past in way that has us feeling like we are the ones to make sure that they get the happy ending they obviously deserve.

I love that phrase about them moving on before you can see straight - sums it up beautifully.  As awful as it is that so many here have had to go through this, there's comfort in knowing it didn't just happen to me.

[ScotisGone74]

I'm sorry to hear of the situations discussed here.  I know that it is more than just painful.  I can't imagine doing this for years upon years.

My expwBPD was engaged two weeks after our relationship ended and married two months later.  It was basically like I never existed-like I was never there.  I thought about doing alot of different things, but I didn't.  Honestly I doubt if it would have made much difference anyway.  Actually I feel very fortunate in a way, this person was begging me to have kids with her and get married right up until a month or two before the end.  I feel like it could have been a mop that showed up she would have married it if it would have gotten her pregnant.  Which of course, now at four months NC she is pregnant.  I couldn't imagine dealing with the ensuing drama that will be coming after she has the kid.  I'm glad its not my prolem to have to deal with.

[clairedair]

Wow Scotisgone74 - everytime I think nothing would surprise me, someone else here surprises me.  Two weeks and the married in two months?  I feel sorry for the new partner but even more sorry for the child.  The partner is an adult and made a choice. The child has not.

I am feeling quite good mostly.  It feels like a release (but this is probably because the news of the engagement has come on the back of years of recycles and months of me being, finally, really angry about the lack of trust and respect).  I have for years been sure that it was me he loved but because I had hurt him (including telling him I didn't love him when I was exhausted, confused and angry that he'd told me I wasn't what he'd hoped for), he got anxious when we got too close.  Having recently lost that illusion and realised I was just someone he needed at times, I don't feel so much this time that i have lost him.  I think he was lost a long time ago and I very much doubt that he's now been found... .

It was basically like I never existed-like I was never there.

This is one of the feelings I really hate.  Again, I'm not feeling this as much as previous times when I was instantly 'replaced' but even knowing what I know about BPD, it still gets me in a spin thinking about how quickly he has moved on. 

You ARE fortunate that it's not your problem to deal with.  Do you still feel conflicted about her or are you relieved?

[ScotisGone74]

I know I should be grateful, but this is a person that I loved without question, that I would have walked through hell for, and literally feel now like I have.  All the little inside jokes, all the funny stuff we shared, all the things we had done for each other- all gone in an instant.  I just hurt inside.  I have seen a counselor at church a few times, but have not gone to any therapy or any other stuff.  I did get on a spurt there for a couple months after I was drinking a little bit, I don't do that any longer-I just literally soak up the pain and the hurt-no long therapy sessions, no crying to family members, no whining to my church past-just trying to take it like a man.  It is nice to get on here and listen to other's problems and issues. To be honest, I'm not majorly religious, but I have been reading the bible as well lately.  I don't know whats the usual time frame on feeling normal after this stuff?

I'm not conflicted about her, I'm glad its over, and I never wish to speak to her, see her or otherwise acknowledge she is alive.  Maybe that harsh, but so is life. 

[clairedair]

I know I should be grateful, but this is a person that I loved without question, that I would have walked through hell for, and literally feel now like I have. 

I think you can be grateful for the peace but you're right - it's hard to feel grateful when the person you 'loved without question' and did everything you could for them just ups and leaves and seems blissfully happy in an instant with someone else.  It's so hard to deal with when you still remember that you and she seemed blissfully happy too.  But the crucial word there is 'seemed'.  I do think that ex and I were happy at times; that he did love me but once we were into the recycles, it just didn't last and it would start to feel like he was acting a part until he flipped the other way.

I don't know whats the usual time frame on feeling normal after this stuff?

I don't think there's anything 'usual' about these relationships including the time frame on getting back to normal.  I think part of the battle is remembering what 'normal' is because our heads are in such a mess and whilst we're in a mess, they look like they are getting on fine so that messes with your head even more!

You mention church/Bible.  I feel that my faith kept me in the relationship and recycling long after it was healthy.  I'd been brought up with strong messages about divorce being wrong and forgiveness being core to the way we live our life.  In addition, just after everything first blew up, I became infatuated with someone who was giving me attention and making me feel really good about myself.  I was SO ashamed of this  - felt it was so morally wrong - that I let myself be treated very badly because I thought I deserved it.  I am not excusing my behaviour, but I think the reaction was out of proportion and my ex didn't seem to get that I had only done something so uncharacteristic because I was on the verge of a breakdown.  I find it hard to go to church now and it's something else that I feel I've lost.