Is codding always bad? Ir so, how to stop coddling cycle?

[AllyCat7]

Hi All,

It's been a while. I have a question regarding a BPD silent/waif type guy I've been dating on/off for two years. Things have been a bit rocky with us due to some of his destructive behaviors/pushing me away when he gets stressed or feels overwhelmed. In the beginning, he wouldn't push me away. He was pursuing me. But the pushing me away started a year and a half ago once he "got me". I was really bad at handling it at first. I would question him, be short with him, and often push him away, too. Another thing I would often do is solidify his pushing me away by kind of saying "goodbye" or "I understand we're just friends now", which is not what he wanted or needed. He just needed space. Anyway, all of this caused a lot of problems eventually. Also, if I ever used one of these bad techniques, I would eventually feel bad and so I would coddle him and get him to come back to me. The thing with that is that although it always works (given some time in between for him to calm down), I don't think it is teaching the right relationship dynamics. And he's not learning to grow up and step up to fix things after he acts destructively. I want him to learn this (if it's possible) so I am trying some other techniques.

He did something in January that pushed me away after I sent him a long email describing our r'ship and what I was looking for. I probably did not handle it well. I made the mistake of "solidifying" him pushing me away. And it took us 1.5 months to get back to speed (all because of my efforts). We were warming up to each other again, even did lunch, and a week later I asked if I could take him out for his birthday (which was coming up that weekend on a Monday). He agreed that we can hang out on Monday, his birthday.

So Monday rolls around and I asked to confirm a time and he was silent for a good 6 hours. I asked him again and he said he was sorry but he was at work. Basically, he blew me off. I don't know exactly why. I suspect he freaked out because it was too much for us to handle at the time. I don't necessarily know that it was because of another girl (although I know he is talking to other girls now, too). I replied "Ok" and just left it at that. This was Monday of last week. And although I have not heard from him since, he was doing his usual "nondirect communication" using Facebook over the weekend. I didn't acknowledge them because I wasn't 100% sure they were for me and also I didn't want to keep encouraging that behavior. I want him to be direct. He logged on Skype for a couple days, too. And I logged on a few times to give him the opportunity to contact me and apologize/explain what happened on his bday. But he didn't. So I logged off. And now he's not logged on anymore. I think he expected me to say hi to him first.

I know he thinks I'm pissed at him right now, which is why he's avoiding me or being skittish. This happens all the time. And I usually coddle him by reaching out to him and letting him know I'm not mad at him. But I don't want to keep doing that. I want him to reach out on his own and see that I am not mad at him. I think my own fears of abandonment have prevented me from doing this recently. I did it a few times a year ago and it worked, but our dynamics over the last year are of me coddling him when he misbehaves and he's used to that. But I want to undo it.

So my question is #1, is coddling always bad? Is it possible to get a r'ship with a pwBPD stable without coddling? I feel like if I don't coddle him he thinks I'm abandoning him and gets mad at me, which I don't want either. And #2, what is the best way to teach him to reach out on his own after he acts destructively? I was planning on just waiting it out until/if he contacts me and then "rewarding" him by offering him a belated bday lunch. Do you think that's a good plan? Part of me feels bad because I didn't ever warn him or give him a heads up that I want the dynamics to change. So I'm not sure he will reach out. He may just, based on my not coddling him like I usually do, assume I'm done with him. Do you think I should coddle him this one last time and then explain the new plan, after which I reinforce the lesson? Or is now a good time?

I did something kinda corny, but hoping it helps. I don't like to use social media to communicate or play games (which is why I haven't been on his FB in a year), but we are on LinkedIn. I put up a quote on that last night espousing the benefits of direct communication (kinda ironic, I know ). I'm hoping it may give him an idea of what I'm looking for. And then I'll wait it out, hoping he gets the point. My only worry is that he is actively reaching out to another girl he has been talking to (I know this for a fact) so my fears of abandonment are really high and I don't know if I have the patience to wait too long, and I'm afraid waiting too long will ruin things completely.

What do you think? Thanks in advance for your help!

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[rosannadanna]

ok Allycat, strap yourself in.  I am going to throw out my two cents b/c I have been exactly where you are.

So my question is #1, is coddling always bad? Is it possible to get a r'ship with a pwBPD stable without coddling? I feel like if I don't coddle him he thinks I'm abandoning him and gets mad at me, which I don't want either. And #2, what is the best way to teach him to reach out on his own after he acts destructively? I was planning on just waiting it out until he contacts me and then "rewarding" him by offering him a belated bday lunch. Do you think that's a good plan? Part of me feels bad because I didn't ever warn him or give him a heads up that I want the dynamics to change. So I'm not sure he will reach out. He may just, based on my not coddling him, assume I'm done with him. Do you think I should coddle him this one last time and then explain the new plan, after which I reinforce the lesson? Or is now a good time?

By coddling do you mean "playing relationship games" or do you mean "pursuing and letting your partner know that you are 100% available"?  I wasn't sure b/c both are going on here.  IMO, guys, BPD or not, know when your playing relationsip games (which is manipulation, btw).  Some jump in and like to play b/c something feels familiar about it, and some will say goodbye. 

And #2, what is the best way to teach him to reach out on his own after he acts destructively? I was planning on just waiting it out until he contacts me and then "rewarding" him by offering him a belated bday lunch. Do you think that's a good plan? Part of me feels bad because I didn't ever warn him or give him a heads up that I want the dynamics to change.

You can't teach him something he already knows how to do.  He is choosing not to reach out.  He may reach out if you change how you interact with him, but you need to be prepared for when he doesn't reach out(radical accepatce and focusing on other stuff).

the best way to get the dynamics to change, IMO, is to state your truth (read about boundaries) and then live it consistently.  You will be different and the way you interact with him will be different, so it may improve you interactions, bringing more mutual satisfaction to the both of you.  Or it may not, and you will need to have radicaly acceptance about that possiblility.  That doesn't mean you have to stay, but you decide to stay having radical acceptance will help you stay centered and happy.

Take care

[benny2]

I also would do the same thing and in fact figured out that he wants me to chase him. He loved the chase. I have changed my dynamics by letting him be when he goes silent, at times I am not to good at it, but I'm working on it. By me chasing him, being the one to say I'm sorry, or can we work things out, only gave him complete control. Its hard to change things around and he probably won't like it, but in the end he will respect you more and you will respect yourself more.

[AllyCat7]

Hi Rose,

Thanks for your reply. I was referring to the second one, "Pursuing and letting him know I'm available". I have been doing it when he thought I was upset with him. Things have not been strong with us lately (ever since he moved to be closer to me). So that's also why I've been coddling. I don't know if we are in a strong enough place for him to want to reach out to me. But I get what you are saying about radical acceptance. I have to keep thinking about that. I just don't want him to think I'm abandoning him. It's more of a boundary that I have made for myself. I can't be with someone who can't apologize and make up for their mistakes. I can't always ignore and/or fix things. I guess I'm confused about if I should start enacting this boundary know without having told him (i.e. he had no forewarning). Is it still ok for me to use it without telling him or should I tell him first?

Thanks!

[AllyCat7]

I also would do the same thing and in fact figured out that he wants me to chase him. He loved the chase. I have changed my dynamics by letting him be when he goes silent, at times I am not to good at it, but I'm working on it. By me chasing him, being the one to say I'm sorry, or can we work things out, only gave him complete control. Its hard to change things around and he probably won't like it, but in the end he will respect you more and you will respect yourself more.

Thanks Benny! Yeah, I have tried to change the dynamics with some of the other stuff (him ignoring me when I contact him, etc.). I notice he is giving me some more respect on that front. I will try this new plan... . to not play games, not push him away, not solidify his pushing away--just give him space and do nothing until/if he returns. I hope me logging into Skype and not saying hi did not affect things too much (trigger his fear of rejection, etc.). I guess that's partly why I wrote that LinkedIn status. Anyway, if you don't mind answering my question in the above post, too, that would be great. Did you warn your guy about the changing dynamics or did you just do it without telling him?

[AllyCat7]

One more question, Benny. Did you also do this when he was ignoring you because he messed up and thought you were mad at him? I am pretty good about giving him space in normal circumstances. It's when he thinks I'm mad at him that I tend to coddle/soothe him. So I should back away and not coddle him during these circumstances, too? Did it work for you?

[benny2]

For me, the persue on my behalf never resulted well, only caused humiliation for me, which is what I am sure he wanted, so whether it be him mad at, or me mad at him or sometimes for no reason at all, I am learning to let him come to me. Ultimately despite my efforts to resolve things, he would come to me in his own time anyways. I could almost hear him laughing when I would persue him. Even though they have the same disorder, they are all different, so what works for me might not work for you and I am still in the process of trying to figure that out, its just that this way I am saving myself respect.

[briefcase]

Hi AlleyCat, it's good to see you back (although I am sorry you are struggling a bit in your relationship).

While he is being a bit distant, it might be a really good time to review the Lessons, which deal with some of the issues you raise here.

You do not have to communicate new boundaries, you can just start living them.  Or, you can talk to him and let him know what you can and can't live with (not what he can and cannot do).  I felt like I had to talk to my wife about some of my boundaries when I started to sort of give her a chance to honor them.  There really isn't a right or wrong way.  We have workshops on boundaries, including planning for boundaries, you should check them out!

Also, coddling and always being 100% available is not a good long term solution - it sends the wrong message and only encourages him to continue doing what he's been doing.

[benny2]

Oh and no, I did not discuss this with him. this is something I am doing for me, not so much him.

[AllyCat7]

Oh and no, I did not discuss this with him. this is something I am doing for me, not so much him.

Thanks so much Benny :-)

So if you don't mind answering the Q about whether you also did this when he messed up and thought you were mad at him? If not coddling, I may be inclined to send out a short email saying hi or something like that so he knows I'm not pissed, after which I give him space and he comes back around. But I guess this is coddling, sort of?

[AllyCat7]

Hi AlleyCat, it's good to see you back (although I am sorry you are struggling a bit in your relationship).

While he is being a bit distant, it might be a really good time to review the Lessons, which deal with some of the issues you raise here.

You do not have to communicate new boundaries, you can just start living them.  Or, you can talk to him and let him know what you can and can't live with (not what he can and cannot do).  I felt like I had to talk to my wife about some of my boundaries when I started to sort of give her a chance to honor them.  There really isn't a right or wrong way.  We have workshops on boundaries, including planning for boundaries, you should check them out!

Also, coddling and always being 100% available is not a good long term solution - it sends the wrong message and only encourages him to continue doing what he's been doing.

Thanks for your reply, Briefcase. Good to see you, too! Although I wish I didn't have to be here

I appreciate your feedback. I will think about whether to communicate this boundary to him or not. I think I may have included something about this one in one of the emails I sent him in December. I told him to communicate openly with me, esp if he's feeling overwhelmed. And then I put that quote on LinkedIn. So I think he knows what I'm looking for. Thanks also for reaffirming the case about coddling. It's just really hard not to do when he thinks I'm pissed at him  Must be patient, though!

[rosannadanna]

When I was pursuing, is was my frantic attempt to get him to idealize me again.  The whole reason we pursue is b/c the other person is distancing which feels really lousy.  We want to stave off abandoment depression as much as our BPD partners (read about it in 2010's posts) and when they are emotionally and/or physically distanced, we are feeling disconnected and devalued.

You are afraid to make him mad for the same reasons. 

What would happen if he became mad at you?  How would you feel?  If you can imagine this, let the feeling well up, and sit with the feelings, it might not seem so scary.

I know this is hard.  I have a hang up about disappointing people or making mistakes.  I am very hard on myself, but I know I have value whether people are disappointed, if I make a mistake, or if someone gets mad at me.

Wow it's affirming just to write it! 

Take care

[AllyCat7]

When I was pursuing, is was my frantic attempt to get him to idealize me again.  The whole reason we pursue is b/c the other person is distancing which feels really lousy.  We want to stave off abandoment depression as much as our BPD partners (read about it in 2010's posts) and when they are emotionally and/or physically distanced, we are feeling disconnected and devalued.

You are afraid to make him mad for the same reasons. 

What would happen if he became mad at you?  How would you feel?  If you can imagine this, let the feeling well up, and sit with the feelings, it might not seem so scary.

I know this is hard.  I have a hang up about disappointing people or making mistakes.  I am very hard on myself, but I know I have value whether people are disappointed, if I make a mistake, or if someone gets mad at me.

Wow it's affirming just to write it! 

Take care

Wow, I really appreciate this. Thanks so much! I realize we won't get back to the idealization stage. I just want respect at this point. That has been my thing all along, but I am especially pushing for it over the last few months. He was doing good until his birthday. I hope he reaches out, but if he doesn't, I have to accept that and not take it personally,as you said. I didn't do anything wrong for him to cancel on me or never talk to me again. I need to keep telling myself that!

[briefcase]

AlleyCat,

You say you want him to speak directly to you - but are you speaking directly to him?

I don't think it's coddling to call him or send a quick "Hi, how are ya?" email, if that's what you want to do.  Now, don't go and blow up his phone and inbox with a bunch of needy/coddling messages.  But, it's ok to reach out. 

[benny2]

Well surprisingly he has'nt messed up since I decided to do this. One time I did not answer his text right away and  he was mad at me but I did not feel I did anything wrong and theres been a couple days where he just did'nt communicate and I let it go, but if he thought I was mad at him, I guess I would be honest in telling him whether or not what he did upset me and then let it be.

[AllyCat7]

AlleyCat,

You say you want him to speak directly to you - but are you speaking directly to him?

I don't think it's coddling to call him or send a quick "Hi, how are ya?" email, if that's what you want to do.  Now, don't go and blow up his phone and inbox with a bunch of needy/coddling messages.  But, it's ok to reach out. 

Hi Briefcase, well he is ignoring me right now. I was the one who asked him twice on his birthday what time he can meet, and he replied with a blowoff text message. I said "ok", and nothing else from him since. I guess I feel that if I reach out to him, he's going to keep thinking he can mistreat me and I'll always run back to him. Don't you think it will send that message? If a mature adult cancelled last minute on someone, they would have handled it differently. I know he can't do that now, but someone has to teach him, no? I remember once last year I was upset at him over something and I said so in an email and left him alone. Then after a week and a half, he replied and apologized.

Would it be ok if I sent a short email just stating my feelings about what happened on Monday? Nothing mean or anything, but just so he knows what's on my mind and so that it doesn't happen again? Or should I just continue to give him space? But maybe I should send the email and then give him space? I'm so confused now 

[AllyCat7]

So one more possible plan for this. I could just send a short "hi, hope all is well" email (no questions or anything) and let him take the lead? If he wants to explain more or apologize then he has the opportunity to. If he doesn't address it, then I'll just be friendly with him until he suggests possibly hanging out again. Then maybe I can bring it up then? I won't take him out to birthday lunch at this point. I'll let him work back up to that, but I'll give him the opportunity to do so through the initial email, which will carry no pressure or expectations. What do you all think? Is that coddling?