Emails and Update

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

What is the general rule for replying to emails with someone who is considered abusive, dysregulated, etc.? Again, we are living together, D has been filed, my A has left messages for his A to discuss him moving out.  Typically I know the rule is not to engage but I also don't want to look like I'm ignoring the situation or allow him to make false statements about me.  I do feel a need to stand up for myself.   He did not reply to me when I texted him asking why our account was a negative balance so his statement is false. The day after the physical incident I went to my friend's house and he texted me something about me being out late.  I didn't feel comfortable engaging in his control and didn't feel it was necessary for him to monitor me.  This is all about him having the control over me and losing it.  He wasn't home last night again.

H said something about whenever I ask a question, he answers it but when he asks I don't.   Or I avoid replying to his e-mails or text messages.  False. He hasn't sent me any emails and the only text was the one after he came at me in the house when I was at my friends and was terrified to go home.  H said if I continue he will refuse to answer any of my inquiries.  Another threat.

I would like to reply something like: 'You have not spoken respectfully toward me in a very long time.  I texted you asking why the checking account is at a balance of  -$xx  and you never replied.'    

What do you suggest I do? Or do I not reply?

Also, an update to my situation that happened last week .  I decided to go to my doctor because from the impact of H grabbing the product out of my hand, my wrist ended up getting sprained.  The physician red flagged the situation I am in, asked many questions about H and his behavior, etc.  and suggested I move out away from him.   I told him I'd need to talk to the A about that, I would keep that in mind as that is part of my safety plan,  thanked him for the information. He knows I'm working with the counselors and the DIR report was filed. He gave me a printout report of the topics we discussed mentioning this is a DV injury,  so I am filing that away. 

Do I let my A know I filed a Domestic Incident Report? Do I provide the report the physician gave me as well?   

[Mind]

What is the general rule for replying to emails with someone who is considered abusive, dysregulated, etc.? Again, we are living together, D has been filed, my A has left messages for his A to discuss him moving out.  Typically I know the rule is not to engage but I also don't want to look like I'm ignoring the situation or allow him to make false statements about me.  I do feel a need to stand up for myself.   He did not reply to me when I texted him asking why our account was a negative balance so his statement is false. The day after the physical incident I went to my friend's house and he texted me something about me being out late.  I didn't feel comfortable engaging in his control and didn't feel it was necessary for him to monitor me.  This is all about him having the control over me and losing it.  He wasn't home last night again.

H said something about whenever I ask a question, he answers it but when he asks I don't.   Or I avoid replying to his e-mails or text messages.  False. He hasn't sent me any emails and the only text was the one after he came at me in the house when I was at my friends and was terrified to go home.  H said if I continue he will refuse to answer any of my inquiries.  Another threat.

I would like to reply something like: 'You have not spoken respectfully toward me in a very long time.  I texted you asking why the checking account is at a balance of  -$xx  and you never replied.'    

What do you suggest I do? Or do I not reply?

Also, an update to my situation that happened last week .  I decided to go to my doctor because from the impact of H grabbing the product out of my hand, my wrist ended up getting sprained.  The physician red flagged the situation I am in, asked many questions about H and his behavior, etc.  and suggested I move out away from him.   I told him I'd need to talk to the A about that, I would keep that in mind as that is part of my safety plan,  thanked him for the information. He knows I'm working with the counselors and the DIR report was filed. He gave me a printout report of the topics we discussed mentioning this is a DV injury,  so I am filing that away. 

Do I let my A know I filed a Domestic Incident Report? Do I provide the report the physician gave me as well?   

[ForeverDad]

What is the general rule for replying to emails with someone who is considered abusive, dysregulated, etc... . ?

If you can, stick to emails.  Texts are not yet, as I understand it, considered as valid for communication as are emails.  Emails should contain "full headers" that contain transmission data from sender and to recipient.  Of course, the full header is lost when email is being replied to or forwarded, unless you specifically display them or insert them into the thread.  (Lesson: Saving only the most recent email of a string of emails generally doesn't preserve sending/delivery data of the prior emails.)

H said something about whenever I ask a question, he answers it but when he asks I don't.   Or I avoid replying to his e-mails or text messages.  False. He hasn't sent me any emails and the only text was the one after he came at me in the house when I was at my friends and was terrified to go home.  H said if I continue he will refuse to answer any of my inquiries.  Another threat.

Anyone can twist and distort the facts to suit themselves.  You wouldn't do that unethically or unfairly, however your spouse has no such compunctions.  Accept that reality and deal with it accordingly.

I would like to reply something like: 'You have not spoken respectfully toward me in a very long time.  I texted you asking why the checking account is at a balance of  -$xx  and you never replied.'

What do you suggest I do? Or do I not reply?

All replies should be written with the court, evaluators or other professionals in mind.  You already know anything you write will not impact him positively, so don't reply for his benefit, your spouse is already a 'lost cause', instead reply for whomever may later read or review emails.  Also, just in case he may respond positively, keep replies (1) simple, (2) brief, (3) without emotional overtones and (4) to the point.  Your spouse will be blaming or blame-shifting, focused largely emotion-based and not fact-based - unless your spouse picks and chooses a subset of the facts.  If you do reply, keep it brief and stick to the facts.

This reminds me of the Far Side cartoon where it had a single scene with two captions - one was "what you say to your pet" and the other was "what your pet hears".  Yes, the pet side was mostly "blah... . blah... . blah... . blah... . "  Accept that your spouse or ex-spouse will filter out what is not acceptable to him/her.  Proceed accordingly.

The physician red flagged the situation I am in, asked many questions about H and his behavior, etc. and suggested I move out away from him.   I told him I'd need to talk to the A about that, I would keep that in mind as that is part of my safety plan,  thanked him for the information. He knows I'm working with the counselors and the DIR report was filed. He gave me a printout report of the topics we discussed mentioning this is a DV injury,  so I am filing that away.

Do I let my A know I filed a Domestic Incident Report? Do I provide the report the physician gave me as well?

Keep your attorney informed.  Your attorney should know which details of your case to keep confidential, even from the other attorney.  Be aware your A has other cases and scheduled court appearances so you may not always get through immediately, besides, frequent communication can become expensive.

[marbleloser]

+1 

[momtara]

i'm in the same situation. i don't want to engage, but i also can't let false statements hang out there. unfortunately, when i try to reply, he gets angrier and it gets worse. he is wired to be able to manipulate. it's amazing. it's like something gifted in his brain that i can't keep up with - and i was always pretty smart!  oh well.

[sad but wiser]

Momtara and Sparkle13 - Yes, they open their mouths and lie so convincingly you wonder if you are the crazy one.  As far as letting false statements hang out there, you might say, "I'm not even going to dignify all of your lies about me with a response anymore," and leave it at that.  Tell other people the truth, but only on a need-to-know basis.  Most other people have figured out that he is a bit "strange."  By the way, you don't want the courts to conclude that he is crazy - it might complicate the divorce.  Do protect yourself as needed.  Open your own checking account in your name only.  If you link it to your existing account, transfers are easy to deal with. 

PS He is punishing you by the silent treatment?  How awful!  I bet you can't wait for him to come home and blame you and yell at you some more... .

[Mind]

Momt- ugh. Well he told me I'm his trigger and doesn't know why! Too bad I do! That's how my story really came to a head last year when I told him enough is enough. He didn't like that and just got more angrier every time I set limits or even tried giving him the benefit. After our one counseling appt. w his counselor we left and he told me that this is just the way he is and I'd have to deal with it.

When I started noticing his behavior I'd question him about something and he'd turn the story around so it wouldn't make sense. I'd be left wondering what was that all about.

Sbw- I like that reply! Funny I saw a friend who's hb works with my h. So we talked and she said she's heard my h is a know it all and hothead. I didn't feel so crazy after hearing about his work reputation! My story is on the other boards but yes, he punishes me with silence. That's what he did 3 weeks before a minor surgery- totally ignored me and the children then didn't want me there!

[sad but wiser]

Sparkle, No, you don't have to "just deal with it."  You married "for better or worse" not for "worse and/or abuse, ha, ha you are stuck forever with me!"  Such an attitude is not an appropriate one for a husband or wife to have.  He won't like you letting him know this, but you are going to have to decide on and enforce some boundaries here.

Unfortunately, some people see boundaries as challenges and will attempt to step over them every time.

[livednlearned]

What is the general rule for replying to emails with someone who is considered abusive, dysregulated, etc.?

Have you read Splitting by Bill Eddy? There's a section in there about responding to hostile emails -- excerpted here on bpdfamily.com:

TOOLS: Responding to hostile email

Good advice in there, well worth reading.

H said something about whenever I ask a question, he answers it but when he asks I don't.   Or I avoid replying to his e-mails or text messages.  False. He hasn't sent me any emails and the only text was the one after he came at me in the house when I was at my friends and was terrified to go home.  H said if I continue he will refuse to answer any of my inquiries.  Another threat.

I would like to reply something like: 'You have not spoken respectfully toward me in a very long time.  I texted you asking why the checking account is at a balance of  -$xx  and you never replied.'    

What do you suggest I do? Or do I not reply?

I would send a very brief email: "This is the x time I have asked you to please inform me why there is a negative balance in our joint checking account by 5pm today. I emailed you on x day/date and x day/date, and asked you in person on x day/date. If I do not hear back from you by 5pm today, I will let my L know that you will not communicate with me about this."

You probably also want to know how he plans to pay bills and want confirmation that he is going to pay those bills?

Do I let my A know I filed a Domestic Incident Report? Do I provide the report the physician gave me as well?   

Yes to both questions.

[MammaMia]

Sparkle

Any news today?  We are all worried about you.

[Mind]

Thank you.  Last night was absolutely terrible.  Yes, I spoke with my L and she is preparing the OoP, the stay away level to include the kids.  I also spoke with the DV counselor and she said he cannot take the kids like this.   She is including an order for him to be removed from the house, me to have exclusive occupancy, and immediate return of the children (which may happen tonght as she spoke with his L finally). I am supplying documentation for Just Cause.

She was going to walk this over to the Court House today but it sounds like if the kids are returned tonight she wouldn't have to rush over.  His L is contacting him and directing him to return the girls tonight. She asked me if I would be okay with texting him to confirm that he is bringing the kids back this evening. I'd be fine with that.

She is also asking how I feel about him having the kids while I'm at work tomorrow and Friday.  He has practices, is on break and is residing with his parents.  What do I say? Do I agree to this?  I thought the stay away order is that the kids would be away from his as well so should it be consistent?  I need to write back to her soon... .  

[livednlearned]

She is also asking how I feel about him having the kids while I'm at work tomorrow and Friday.  He has practices, is on break and is residing with his parents.  What do I say? Do I agree to this?  I thought the stay away order is that the kids would be away from his as well so should it be consistent?  I need to write back to her soon... .  

What are the usual arrangements for the kids? Consistency for them is probably the least disruptive option. If you can't take time off work to be with them, what other options are there for you?

This is a hard situation to read from a strategic staNPDoint. I can imagine that letting the kids spend the two days with their dad would make you look very reasonable and level-headed, even though your H took the kids and alarmed you. But psychologically, you probably want to stay close to them and make sure they're ok. I think a court would understand that too.

It sounds like your state might be different than mine, or perhaps it's the OoP that changes the circumstances, so your H has to return the girls. Whether or not he complies is another issue.

[mamachelle]

Hi Sparkle13

It is good to hear you are moving forward. It's so much like a massive game of chess when you want it to just be an action movie where you can just swoop in and save the kids ... .   and good and bad are clear cut choices. 

here's my .02

If the OOP is written that he needs to be away from the kids then they really should not be with him.

My amended OOP after the 30 days allowed for visitation only with mutual friends. It was a sort of weak "supervised visitation".

Your L sounds to be sort of ambivalent and going to you for the lead when really she should be advising you.

Personally I would tell her to go the court house and file today.

If you want to have visitation only at the parent's house with Dad then that needs to be written in otherwise I think you are violating the order already allowing him to be with the kids ?

If you don't want him near them then enlist a sitter or a neighbor that can take them to soccer or ballet and keep them away from the drama. I would do that.I did that with my girls. Babysitters are worth every penny when the other option is a BPD parent that is dysregulated and potentially dangerous.

[Mind]

On breaks, he typically would be at home with them. I sometimes take a day or two off to be with them as well.  Other options would be daycare, which I am paying for this week.  Or, I would have a family member watch them. I have a few options.

Exactly.  I know I need to continue to show I am reasonable but I am very concerned about my situation and making sure they are okay, especially after last night and previous episodes.

I also was told that he received a court appearance for criminal court.  Criminal charges were not filed.  I left a message with the DV center to see if they can look into this.  

M - that's what I thought, it would be a violation.  

[mamachelle]

Yes, you need to clarify if there will be visitation or not. If not, then don't have them with him for as long as the order allows.

This is my -- talking from the gut--- opinion so others may disagree but your H is dysregulated, he is getting some kind of support from his parents and is most likely behaving oddly and telling the kids and his parents all sorts of strange things.

Personally, I would enlist sitters and try to keep all visits if so included within the order-- with him supervised- spelled out- to the hour and to the day.

No picking them up from school, no surprises.

You need to channel that inner single Mom right now and not depend on him. It will be easier in the long run... .   really. But right now it is so much about filing the right paperwork and just keeping track of what your L is doing and direct your L as best you can to act in your immediate best interests and not keep trying to bargain with his L and with him. It does no good to bargain with a BPD parent with no consequences.

[Mind]

Mamachelle - thanks for getting back and for your input.  I agree that he is very dysregulated.  He is definitely getting support from his parents and in fact, he is most likely having them take care of the kids.  He's even trying to get me to agree on a Wed. through Saturday custody plan via text. 

Can you explain what would supervised visits mean so I understand it better? How does the OOP work with the visits? We include the plan in it?  She said we could work out a plan before the court date. 

I have to keep in mind that the kids safety and mine is our number one concern here.  I want to establish good guidelines now so things are easier down the road. 

[MammaMia]

Sparkle

I agree with mamachelle.  Allowing your h to have the children at this time is sending mixed messages.  I would find someone else to care for them.   How old are the children?  :)o they understand what is happening?  Are you able to communicate with his parents?

I do not know where you live, but in some states victims have the right to file charges.  If they choose not to, the County Prosecutor can still file criminal charges on behalf of the State.  This is done in circumstances where police and the prosecutor believe a crime has been committed, regardless of what the victim says.  It does not require your permission.

[mamachelle]

Ok- aieeee I will do my best but I know there is more and better info out there about how this all works.

2005- post his attack on me and after D was filed-- In my extended temp OOP my L wrote in child support as well as a provision for them to see their dad every Saturday and Sunday from 12-5 at a  mutual friends of ours. I dropped off and picked up. This is not true supervised visitation but it is something that can be legally recognized and written in to a temp order but for long term would probably not fly. Then again, I heard someone here recently had filed that all visitation with BPD Mom be at the grandparent's house and the judge signed the order.

In 2009 I sought--  Counseling for BPD dad as well as Court Ordered Supervised Visitation This is more serious and involves special centers where Parents meet with the children. I believe there is a charge as well to pay the supervisor. I was trying for this with my kids BPDDad after he physically abused my DD, then 9 and subjected both DD now 13 and 16 to various abusive and neglectful situations. Dad never complied and fled the state rather than go through it.We had a GAL (Guardian ad Litem) appointed and so this Court Supervised Visitation was a much more serious thing. Your DV counselor can give more information as can your attorney as can people here but I am trying to help you quickly.

[Mind]

Kids are 2 and 6. No communication can be done with his parents. In fact his mom's behavior is similar to his. The DV counselor told me that I could file criminal charges, but instead we went with the OOP. I have a call in to the DV center to see if they know what happened.

[Forward2free]

Great job so far - are the kids back with you now?

Check with the DV cousellor about supervised visitation arrangements for your area. I'm in Aust, but ours was set up through a centre that video recorded the entire 2 hour visit and had separate entrances for the father and the mother so that there was no chance of a disturbance and the kids were completely protected. The kids loved it - video games, board games, cool equipment - lots of fun. They were 2 and 4 and didn't even know that they were being supervised. It was relaxed for them, not for their dad.

Second stage was outside of the centre with an accredited supervisor. She would pick up the kids from me, transport them to the father for his 2 hour visit, stay with them the entire time and then drop them off to me at the conclusion of time.

Stage 3, my kids have supervised changeovers at the supervised centre so the visits are for 4 hours with the dad only, and return through the centre. Separate entrances, recorded start and end times and the staff observe his behaviour and demeanor. Rates are about $6 per parent but my orders state that N/BPDxh is responsible for all charges.

From what I have read Sparkle, there is no way that I would allow unsupervised visitation with your kids dad at this time. I would speak to the DV counsellor and see who they recommend. It's really hard to change the status quo and if you don't set the precedent now to best protect them, it will be impossible to undo later.

Every assessment we have now still comments on my demeanor (terrified of N/BPDxh) in the very first court appointed family risk assessment. I believe the kids have a better relationship with their dad now due to the hoops he has had to jump through. I still worry every minute they are with him, but I know that I have done everything in my power to make the situation as safe as possible for them.

[livednlearned]

Good thoughts from Kormilda and others -- once you make a DV claim, it's important to be consistent. If you say the father is a danger to you and the kids, and then say yes they can spend two days with him, you will not have credibility with your statements going forward.

Even if he has not been threatening to the kids, court is going to escalate his behavior -- that seems to be fairly standard among parents/spouses with PDs when they hit the court system. The stress makes it hard for them to function. N/BPDx was frightening and abusive toward me (especially) and emotionally/psychologically/verbally abusive toward S11 when we were a family, and then after date of separation, it went from eerily quiet to psychotic/manic rages that traumatized S11. Right now, I have S11 for 96% of the time. N/BPDx only sees him for 4 hrs Sat and 4 hrs Sun.

Ask for the most you can get because it will be whittled away at through negotiations. You will have to make some amends because your L will want you to appear reasonable, but at least start off strong. It sounds like your L is letting you lead, and that can be hard for nons because we aren't typically strong at being assertive and we let ourselves second-guess our instincts.

Hang in there   we're pulling for you

LnL

[Mind]

Kids are not back tonight. Okay, this helps me focus on a goal and I want to be consistent. I requested the kids be home tonight and he is not complying. We are filing for the OoP tomorrow first thing. I have to review the document. I will check about the supervised visits with my center. I'm curious about how this works. Both my counselor and L said its not good to abruptly take the children away from the mom.

I talked to my kids on the phone tonight. He has told my oldest that I don't like daddy anymore. I haven't spoken to her yet about the D. I couldn't say much but I told her I loved her very much. I think someone said on the other thread that he'd be doing this. How do I handle this?

Lnl- when you say start off strong for what I ask, what does that mean? Can you give an example?

So thankful for everyone's support here!

[sad but wiser]

Hi Sparkle!  Hang in there.  Some of this is really difficult and other parts are just difficult.   

How to talk to your daughter... .     Depending on your daughter's age and maturity, you might explain that it isn't as simple as "you don't like him anymore."  What a jerk to say that to her!  Kids (especially older kids) internalize just about anything, so she has got to be wondering what would happen if you "don't like HER anymore."   You need to make her understand that the relationship is very different here.  Parents are a type of partner.  Both are equal and if one treats the other badly over and over again, the other partner can say, "I am not going to take that behavior anymore."  You can explain that this does not mean that you suddenly don't love him.  It just means that you won't live in that situation anymore.  He had a responsibility towards you as well and he is unable to live up to that responsibility.

Remember being in grade school?  Best friends break up with frightening regularity.  Sometimes they are back together in a recess or two, other times it is forever.

Your children need to know that this is not at all the same thing.  You will not stop loving them or leave them, even if they mess up sometimes.  That is because they are your children, not your marriage partner.  You have a responsibility towards them and they can rest secure in the fact that you will live up to that responsibility, even if you don't like how they act all the time.

[Mind]

SBW - great suggestions.  He is awful for saying that to her.  So his L yesterday asked him if he could return the kids and he told him no.  He had plans today. So now I need to revert back to my safety plan to make sure the kids are not around him when he gets the OoP. 

[ForeverDad]

Kids (especially older kids) internalize just about anything, so she has got to be wondering what would happen if you "don't like HER anymore."   You need to make her understand that the relationship is very different here.

Also, children are prone to feeling that they're the cause of the problems because the parents are fighting over the kids.  Yet they may not share that sense of guilt, they may not even know how to verbalize it.  Anticipate that and ponder how to deal with it.  It would be good for the children to start counseling to help them with their feeling and the new situations and pressures they'll have to deal with.

Richard Warshak's Divorce Poison was recently revised and is excellent when dealing with alienation and involving the children in the blaming and blame shifting.  The introduction is especially powerful.  It states that the old advice to take the silent high road is wrong, you need to deal with the issues and conflicts, not ignore them or stay silent.

For the benefit of those who haven't read Divorce Poison yet, here's an excerpt from the introduction... .  

Divorce Poison, by Richard Warshak, starting with page 1, paragraph 1... .    (emphasis added)

Your ex-spouse is bad-mouthing you to the children, often or constantly portraying you in a negative light, perhaps even trying to turn the children against you.  What should you do? ... .  

The conventional advice is to do nothing.  Psychologists caution parents to avoid criticizing the other parent in front of the children... .    After years of consulting on cases where parents had heeded advice to be passive and had no success, I am convinced that the standard approach is wrong.  It does not work.  Often it makes things worse.  As relationships with their children progressively deteriorate, parents usually try desperately to reason with them.  Such efforts inevitably meet with failure and leave parents feeling helpless and hopeless.

This book explains why the common approaches are impotent, why doing nothing will accomplish nothing, and why relying primarily on reasoning is an unreasonable approach to the problem.  It offers a blueprint for an effective response grounded in a solid understanding of the techniques and dynamics of parents who poison their children's relationships with loved ones.

After reading this book you will be able to distinguish different types of criticism, ranging from occasional mild bad-mouthing to severe and systematic brainwashing.  You will know why and how parents manipulate their children.  You will know how to detect subtle psychological maneuvers in various guises.  You will learn how these practices - even those that seem innocuous - damage children.  And you will discover powerful strategies to preserve or rebuild loving relationships with your children... .  

Divorce Poison was written primarily on behalf of children... .    The failure of their parents' marriage is a chilling lesson that we cannot always count on love.  At such a vulnerable time in their lives, children especially need and deserve as much love as they can get.  Those who close off avenues of love and support detour children from their pursuit of emotional security.  And when they manipulate children into erecting the barriers themselves, when they enlist them as agents in their own deprivation, they violate their children's trust in a most cruel manner.  It is a form of kidnapping; stealing the soul.

I wrote this book to help lost souls find their way back to the hearts that await them.  I wish them a successful journey.

[MammaMia]

Sparkle

Good luck today my dear.  I hope things go smoothly.  You are in my thoughts and prayers.

[Mind]

Thank you -M.  Right now the OOP states that I am seeking custody.  There is nothing about supervised visits yet. Does this sound right?

[MammaMia]

Sparkle

I am sorry, I do not think I can advise you on that.  You need to do what you feel is best for you and your children. Your safety and theirs is paramount.  What does your L suggest? 

I am also sorry things have been so difficult for you.  Hopefully, they will get better.  Keep your chin up and take care of yourself and your babies.

[ForeverDad]

The first step is the hardest.  Your path before you will be a hard one, just like ours were/are, but going forward, taking each subsequent step won't feel as monumental and overwhelming as that first one.  Once the legal system kicks in, whether protection or divorce, a lot of the current issues will be handled or at least addressed to some extent.  There will still be bumps along the way, some really doozies, but they'll be manageable.

There are various types of supervised visitation.  Some agencies provide a framework but usually the supervised parent is charged an hourly fee.  It's hard for that to continue for any extended length of time.  I don't know if the court would see supervision as being needed.  Court may order it at first, then have a social worker evaluate whether it is needed.

Also sometimes family members are stipulated as supervisors.  In your case that won't work and should be avoided if he wants the supervisors to be his parents since at least one of his parents behaves poorly as well.

In most cases the court expects supervision, if enacted, to be only temporary, figuring the immediate conflict will lessen over time and the poor behaviors will improve over time.  If some steps such as counseling are ordered and met then court will want to phase out or remove that restriction and be reluctant to reinstate it if there is a behavioral relapse without going through the courts all over again - expensive and time consuming.

For whatever reason, the agencies and courts generally, by my experience, don't figure exposure to some bad behaviors is all that bad and in need of continuing supervision.  (When I consulted CPS in my area, they saw my then-spouse raging at me in front of our child as apparently not 'actionable' and told me to call back if then-spouse started directing rants and rages toward our child rather than just me.)  To a limited extent that's a proper perspective since we can't shelter our children from literally all problems and stresses or we'd risk them growing up as unprepared for the real world.  The problem is that the agencies and court ignore a LOT of poor behaviors that don't rise to the level of their 'actionable' criteria.

[mamachelle]

Sparkle13-

At this point, you need to get your kids back.

What is going on with the visitation as per your attorney?

Something needs to be spelled out now regarding contact (none) or visitation (set schedule) or else he can pick kids up from school or daycare.

It can also be entered in with your divorce case as an emergency motion I think if the OOP is already done.

Talk to that L of yours as she seems to be leaving huge gaps here... .   I wonder if she is friends with your H's lawyer? This happened to 2 friends of mine in their divorce cases. Not fun.

ForeverDad and LNL and Kormilda and MammaMia and others I may be leaving out are giving you great advice.

I think in the bleary eyed early days I was saying to my 5 year old when she said similar things

"oh I still love your dad honey, I just don't LIKE him very much anymore. I want the best for him. We just can't live together any more."

Lots of hugs and reassurance and just sitting together reading and playing at the park. Anything to help keep you grounded.

You are doing great. Just keep pushing.

mamachelle

[Mind]

Getting the kids back is my absolute priority. My L knows this as well. This is the worst feeling to have to go through this and put them through this.  We just completed the affadavit. We are requesting many things including a mental health check along with the stay away order. Looking back I blocked out that he really has done and said some truly damaging things.  He has made suicide references  telling me just to take care of the kids because he wishes he weren't alive.  No person who acts this way should be around children.  Right now we are requesting no visitation. It's too scary of a situation to put my children in the hands of someone like this.  I'm going with what my intuition is telling me and for a very long time, I've felt this way. 

This is very difficult so I really appreciate everyone's replies and support.  Even filing today, I feel very fearful, unsure and nervous about how he is going to react, will he come after me, what will he do.  I will be meeting with my counselor next week. Things are pretty black right now but I also am starting to deal with alot of fear that I've had for many, many years.  That is a very good feeling.  I agree that things to keep me grounded will be very helpful.   I'm really trying hard to take one step at a time and making my children priority.