Processing... where to go from here with NC

[Our abuse recovery guide]

I've been enjoying the bliss of being "officially" no contact with my unBPD mom since December. Before that I had not seen her since Spring of 2012. Before that there were many years of temporary estrangement, a visit from CPS, and lots of miserable forced smiles.

In December I told her "I do not wish to see you at this time, we will not be getting together for Christmas." Since then there has been nothing, but whenever I think if I should possibly say something else to be "more clear" I feel that there is no point.

We saw my Grandmother after Christmas and she gave us presents from my mom. Well, gifts for the kids (boy, 2 and girl, 5) and a pass-aggressive guilt trip recorded on a CD for me. (Audio recordings from my childhood). Grandma is almost 90 and completely enmeshed with mom, by the way. I let the gifts from my mom slide because she had probably already bought them.

Fast forward to last weekend, combined birthday party for kids. Opening gifts and presents from my mom appear in the mix before we realize it. Grandma. Afterward my wife and I discuss it. She feels like our boundaries have been violated, that my mother is walking all over us. Well, we haven't set boundaries as far as this goes but her feelings are 100% valid. I have mixed feelings.

I thought to myself during the party how pleasant it was that she was not invited, she was not there, she was not on my mind except to think about how nice it was that she wasn't. What's more, after all of the years of misery that this woman has caused me, this was now the worst she could do. Sneak presents in with Grandma. It's pathetic and I can't help but feel a little bad for her, and giggle at the powerlessness. If that is your worst problem you have it pretty good, right?

I'm not sure what to do about the gifts. I suppose it's fair to refuse them. But either way I'll be conflicted about what to do about HER and my kids. It still feels very strange and terrible to erase her, or lie, or tell the truth that they have a Nana we don't have a relationship with. They won't ask now. Someday they will.

At the same time, mom is pushing for reconciliation. She called me a few weeks ago and simultaneously sent the letter below. Can't we put it all behind us? She isn't evil, I'm not evil. I still feel very strongly that she is a toxic person I do not want in my life. What do I do? I'm not sure what good advice you could give me, dear friends, but it feels good to at least get this out to people who will understand it.

Letter:

Dear ----- ------, (my first and middle name)

I hope this letter finds you well. In thinking how life's ups and downs can bring such happiness and sadness, & I am reminded of the day you were born. It was the happiest day in my 25 years, followed by days, weeks, months and years of joy sharing my life with you.

No one could have ever convinced me that after all that love - the current circumstances would be possible.

Looking back almost four years, I remember a night when I gave ---- (my daughter) 4 ounces of milk. I was made aware that ------ (my wife) was opposed to this, but I felt it was the right thing to do.

It's no different from the night you and ------ (wife) decided ----- (daughter) was not to have dinner at your Dad's house. ----- (Step mother) intervened and insisted that ----- (daughter) be allowed to come to the table and eat. Again, it was the right thing to do. Families don't always agree with each other, but still care.

----- (me), are you really going to draw a line separating our family forever over this? Hasn't this gone on long enough?

In regards to the visit from the county - I know nothing about it. I did not report any incident "ever," I was living 800 miles away! It is hateful and hurtful to be publicly accused of something I had no part of.

You know I am not an evil person, ----- (me), and I know you're not evil either. So, whatever happened is unclear to me but can't we bury that chapter and start a new one? I'd like my son back.

(You can probably put together the part about CPS without much work. I've addressed this in previous posts. The story is frightfully common among users on this board)

[mysoulishome]

I've been enjoying the bliss of being "officially" no contact with my unBPD mom since December. Before that I had not seen her since Spring of 2012. Before that there were many years of temporary estrangement, a visit from CPS, and lots of miserable forced smiles.

In December I told her "I do not wish to see you at this time, we will not be getting together for Christmas." Since then there has been nothing, but whenever I think if I should possibly say something else to be "more clear" I feel that there is no point.

We saw my Grandmother after Christmas and she gave us presents from my mom. Well, gifts for the kids (boy, 2 and girl, 5) and a pass-aggressive guilt trip recorded on a CD for me. (Audio recordings from my childhood). Grandma is almost 90 and completely enmeshed with mom, by the way. I let the gifts from my mom slide because she had probably already bought them.

Fast forward to last weekend, combined birthday party for kids. Opening gifts and presents from my mom appear in the mix before we realize it. Grandma. Afterward my wife and I discuss it. She feels like our boundaries have been violated, that my mother is walking all over us. Well, we haven't set boundaries as far as this goes but her feelings are 100% valid. I have mixed feelings.

I thought to myself during the party how pleasant it was that she was not invited, she was not there, she was not on my mind except to think about how nice it was that she wasn't. What's more, after all of the years of misery that this woman has caused me, this was now the worst she could do. Sneak presents in with Grandma. It's pathetic and I can't help but feel a little bad for her, and giggle at the powerlessness. If that is your worst problem you have it pretty good, right?

I'm not sure what to do about the gifts. I suppose it's fair to refuse them. But either way I'll be conflicted about what to do about HER and my kids. It still feels very strange and terrible to erase her, or lie, or tell the truth that they have a Nana we don't have a relationship with. They won't ask now. Someday they will.

At the same time, mom is pushing for reconciliation. She called me a few weeks ago and simultaneously sent the letter below. Can't we put it all behind us? She isn't evil, I'm not evil. I still feel very strongly that she is a toxic person I do not want in my life. What do I do? I'm not sure what good advice you could give me, dear friends, but it feels good to at least get this out to people who will understand it.

Letter:

Dear ----- ------, (my first and middle name)

I hope this letter finds you well. In thinking how life's ups and downs can bring such happiness and sadness, & I am reminded of the day you were born. It was the happiest day in my 25 years, followed by days, weeks, months and years of joy sharing my life with you.

No one could have ever convinced me that after all that love - the current circumstances would be possible.

Looking back almost four years, I remember a night when I gave ---- (my daughter) 4 ounces of milk. I was made aware that ------ (my wife) was opposed to this, but I felt it was the right thing to do.

It's no different from the night you and ------ (wife) decided ----- (daughter) was not to have dinner at your Dad's house. ----- (Step mother) intervened and insisted that ----- (daughter) be allowed to come to the table and eat. Again, it was the right thing to do. Families don't always agree with each other, but still care.

----- (me), are you really going to draw a line separating our family forever over this? Hasn't this gone on long enough?

In regards to the visit from the county - I know nothing about it. I did not report any incident "ever," I was living 800 miles away! It is hateful and hurtful to be publicly accused of something I had no part of.

You know I am not an evil person, ----- (me), and I know you're not evil either. So, whatever happened is unclear to me but can't we bury that chapter and start a new one? I'd like my son back.

(You can probably put together the part about CPS without much work. I've addressed this in previous posts. The story is frightfully common among users on this board)

[Kwamina]

Hi,

After reading the letter your mom sent you, I think you're right not having contact with her. In the letter she sounds just like my mother, never taking responsibility for anything she does, justifying her behavior, lying or pretending certain things never happened, assuming the role of victim and making you out to be an unreasonable, stubborn and bitter person etc. To me there's nothing sincere about the letter, everything in it seems like an attempt to manipulate you in letting her back into your live.

[mysoulishome]

Thank you, Kwamina. It doesn't seem to get any easier, especially for some of us who have been trained by our BPD parent to be a doormat, but I think you are right.

Wondering how those of you who have children and a NC parent deal with gifts? Do you let them send gifts to children even though they do not get to see them? Do you forbid all contact? Do you tell the kids about the estranged grandparent?

[donniesgrrl]

Thank you, Kwamina. It doesn't seem to get any easier, especially for some of us who have been trained by our BPD parent to be a doormat, but I think you are right.

Wondering how those of you who have children and a NC parent deal with gifts? Do you let them send gifts to children even though they do not get to see them? Do you forbid all contact? Do you tell the kids about the estranged grandparent?

I am currently low to no contact with my uBPD mom, we invited her to D4 birthday party and her and my SD came 2 hours late, and she proceeded to sit on the couch and try and make a seen by "crying" and, muffling sobs (ridiculous, but I totally expected it) so someone could ask her what was wrong and put attention on her.  Thankfully no one did, and H and I laughed about it after.  She and SD brought a card to D4 Birthday party stating that "your Mommy promised to bring you to our house for your present" I have yet to go, and to be honest D4 has no clue she did not get a present from them.  She did Text me awhile ago asking me what was to be done with D4's present, I texted her back that we were available on this day at this time, she answered back that she was far too busy that day.  I have not given another date, and I won't.

We will always include them where the kids are involved but I am not going to go out of my way.  If they choose to come that is on them, if they make a scene they will be asked to leave and I will think nothing of it.  I am very comfortable setting boundaries and sticking to them now.

It has been the biggest battle for me because I was so so enmeshed with her, and was a victim of emotional incest up until October.  but I refuse to go back to that previous life especially after I have seen how much better this one is.  Is it sad? yes, but not sad enough for me to break down the boundaries and let her back in the way it was before.  She HAS to change and I HAVE to see a remarkable and consistent change before I let her back into the fold so to speak, and I know that will never happen.  Am I OK with it yet? not entirely, but I will be, and with my therapists help and my Husband and kids and TONS of family members by my side I will move forward and be A-OK.

[mysoulishome]

We will always include them where the kids are involved but I am not going to go out of my way.  If they choose to come that is on them, if they make a scene they will be asked to leave and I will think nothing of it.  I am very comfortable setting boundaries and sticking to them now.

I feel like this is what a "good person" would do. I wish there was a compromise that would allow her to have minimal contact with the kids. Hate the idea of taking them from her. But her need to control and manipulate makes her a threat to us, literally and mentally/emotionally... . especially when it involved my children.

I keep thinking everything is good but I still find myself in a shame spiral now and then when I have to deal with her. As she said in her letter, I can't believe this is happening. Except that I am the one who has to be logical and fend off her guilt trip. Enforce the estrangement for the sake of my family.

At this point I'm not really sure if there is a decision I need to make or action I need to take. Except to revisit the FOG again (Fear, obligation, guilt) at her request.

[Kwamina]

I feel like this is what a "good person" would do. I wish there was a compromise that would allow her to have minimal contact with the kids. Hate the idea of taking them from her. But her need to control and manipulate makes her a threat to us, literally and mentally/emotionally... . especially when it involved my children.

I understand why you feel like you're taking the kids away from her. However in reality your mother actually is the one who takes her grandkids away from herself. It's because of her own bad behavior that this happens, you're not the one at fault she is. You're actually being a good mother by protecting your children from a known threat you personally know very well indeed, your own mother. I know it might not feel that way, especially when your mother is trying to manipulate you but you're really doing the right thing.

[Cordelia]

We will always include them where the kids are involved but I am not going to go out of my way.  If they choose to come that is on them, if they make a scene they will be asked to leave and I will think nothing of it.  I am very comfortable setting boundaries and sticking to them now.

I feel like this is what a "good person" would do. I wish there was a compromise that would allow her to have minimal contact with the kids. Hate the idea of taking them from her. But her need to control and manipulate makes her a threat to us, literally and mentally/emotionally... . especially when it involved my children.

I am not a parent yet (expecting twins this summer!) but I have been completely NC with my mother for a little over a year and do not see that changing when the babies come.  My mother doesn't know about the pregnancy and I'm not sure I will even send her a birth announcement.  It's not a punishment for her or an attack - it's just that the people involved in my kids lives will be those that are a part of my life, and my mom had 30 years to figure out with me how to be a part of my life, and we couldn't figure out a way for that to happen that wasn't destructive to me.  I really wish that situation were different, but it's not, and the fact I'm having kids doesn't change that.  I don't think my mom has a right to see my kids any more than she has a right to see me.  I hate to hear the level of guilt you're feeling that it seems like you have a similar situation.  No matter how good a person you are, you can't change a situation you didn't create.  It isn't on you to make your mother be a good mother or safe to be around your kids.  A good parent, IMHO, is someone who does the best they can to protect their kids from dangers they are aware of or could reasonably anticipate.  I see my mother as dangerous, to me and my kids, so it's not only nice for me (and eventually them) to be free of her attacks, it's also my responsibility to protect myself and my kids.  Even though it's not easy or pleasant, and everyone else might not understand.  I have come to think of it like going to the doctor or managing a medical condition.  If you were born with something like diabetes, it's your job to manage that condition and monitor your blood sugar and take insulin when you need it. You didn't ask to be born that way, and it's not the most convenient and it's not something everyone else has to worry about or even understand, but that's the situation you're in and you have to make the responsible choice that will safeguard you from harm.   

[Louise7777]

Just a thought: if you, being an adult, still cant handle her, imagine your kids! Please keep them safe and protected from their grandmom.

As a child I had been exposed to BPD behaviour and only now Im learning how to deal with them. Its very destructive and toxic. Dont feel guilty for being a responsible parent!

[mysoulishome]

Thanks everyone. I was fending off a panic attack today. Ate a good lunch and reading your supportive comments has helped me feel better.

I am still wondering if at this point I need to take action to communucate to her about contact, boundaries, presents etc. I have found myself in this frame of mind again and again. I feel like I want to/need to spell things ou for her. But my therapist or wife will ask what exactly do I want to accomplish? Do I really think she will understand, is capable of understanding?

She says she's not evil and can't we let this go. I feel like I want to say that she is a toxic person who I do not want in my life. Is there ever any point in clarifying to her that nothing is going to change, ever? That all of this isn't because she woke up my daughter to give her milk when my wife told her not to?

[mysoulishome]

Also marveling at the fact that the letter is a textbook lesson in shaming, all responsibility and fault to me. Not a shred of loving kindness. If I was estranged from my child, no matter what the cause, I would immediately say I am sorry about the state of things, I love you and I will do anything to be in your life. Can we work on this? I can't be a doormat for someone who doesn't really care about me.

[Kwamina]

Also marveling at the fact that the letter is a textbook lesson in shaming, all responsibility and fault to me. Not a shred of loving kindness. If I was estranged from my child, no matter what the cause, I would immediately say I am sorry about the state of things, I love you and I will do anything to be in your life. Can we work on this? I can't be a doormat for someone who doesn't really care about me.

You're absolutely right, you shouldn't be a doormat for nobody! You're right about the letter too, there's no love in it, that was the thing that struck me too.

So what do you want to accomplish? Do you just wanna tell her how you really feel about her? Or are you still hoping that she might change? Telling her she's a toxic person will probably only make things worse and my bet is she'll use this against you. I personally don't think it's necessary to tell her she's toxic, you can enforce your boundaries wether you tell her she's toxic or not. I do understand your desire to make her understand how damaging her behavior is, but looking at this letter leads me to believe that she isn't capable of understanding. She doesn't take any responsibility and I sense no empathy whatsoever.

[mysoulishome]

I know that she isn't capable of understanding and truly engaging her in any way will only make things worse. The letter made me feel very anxious for the last week but I think I feel good about where I am now. Analyzing it with perspective it's really ridiculous. More shaming, taking no responsibility, showing no remorse and she thinks this tactic is going to bring me running back to her? More bullying and manipulation.

[P.F.Change]

She says she's not evil and can't we let this go. I feel like I want to say that she is a toxic person who I do not want in my life. Is there ever any point in clarifying to her that nothing is going to change, ever? That all of this isn't because she woke up my daughter to give her milk when my wife told her not to?

You will never be able to make her understand.

You can explain until you are blue in the face, and she will still invent her own reasons. Especially if it keeps you engaged in a fight.

Hate the idea of taking them from her.

Are they hers? Does she own them?

Your kids are little--I bet you've seen them throwing tantrums. When you set a limit they don't like, they've probably screamed about how unfair or mean you are. They probably don't like getting sent to time out or not getting to play with their toys when they're there. Your mother is an emotional toddler. She is throwing a tantrum. She's trying to make you feel guilty by telling you how mean and unfair you are.

But your kids are not her toys (though if she is like my BPDm that may be how she sees them). You are not "taking them away" like a "mean" daddy. It sounds to me like you actually care about keeping your little people SAFE and PROTECTED.

It helps me to think about what I am giving my kids instead of what I am taking away from anybody. You are giving your children more time with healthy, nurturing grandparents. You are giving your children a safe, secure, loving, healthy environment. That is what they need most, and their needs are the most important right now. They are the ones whose feelings and needs you need to protect--not your mother's.

You and your wife sound like good parents.

Wishing you peace,

PF

[mysoulishome]

Thank you very much PF absolutely right and these are the messages I need playing in my head instead of the negative ones