How to deal with BPD relative?

[Louise7777]

Hey guys! I wonder if you could give me some advice on this. Im about to meet a BPD relative on a family gathering. I usually go NC, except for these meetings twice a year.

From my experience, even by being quiet or agreeing to whatever she says, she still behaves in an aggressive way, raging somehow or with aggressive remarks.

Im thinking of avoiding contact, just sitting there and watch the show she usually portrays with her histrionic acts... . Any advice, please? It would be enourmously appreciated! 

[Kwamina]

Hi Cristina? How did it go? My advice would have been not to let her get to you and not to take anything she says personally. However, if she crossed certain lines and went too far, you shouldn't ignore this but calmly yet strongly say that you don't accept this behavior.

[Louise7777]

Hey Kwamina! We didnt meet yet, it would be next Saturday (Im asking for advice in advance) at her home (OMG).

Thanks a lot for your words. I will try not to take things personally, but its really hard, she makes remarks to humiliate you. I have never seen anybody like her.

After reading so many boards here Im thinking she has sadistic traits. The evil looks, the sarcasm... . its unbearable.  All the rage she has inside... . I think shes very frustrated with her life and somehow I have to pay for that, Im half her age, so for whatever sick reason she wants to bring me down.

Dont take me wrong, I dont see myself as a victim, but although she mistreats a lot of people, over years she chooses favourite targets. For many years its been me. I usually ignore her, but Im thinking of setting boundaries, like you said. We meet once or twice a year, but its always disgusting for me.

Thank you for the input and have a great weekend, and Happy Easter (in case it applies to you). 

[Kwamina]

Hi again!   My mother and oldest sister are like that too, always seeking out 'easy targets'. For a long time I was a very easy target for them too since I'm 14 years younger than my sister. The two of them ganged up on me 3 years ago (on Mother's Day), started raging like lunatics and for me that really was the last straw. After that I started changing the way I interacted with them. I had always known there was something seriously wrong with my mother, but that day it became crystal clear that my sister is exactly like her. My sister realized she couldn't just get away with her raging anymore so she found another 'easy' target, one of her coworkers. The reason she selected this partciular coworker was that my sister knew this woman was already close to a nervous breakdown. Things backfired however, the woman wasn't as weak as my sister thought she was and my sister ended up losing her job. This wasn't the only incident at her work, but it was by far the worst.

I hope you'll succeed in not taking your relative's behavior personally. What helps me is that I don't see my mother and sister as real people anymore. There's something serioursly wrong with them, I know realize that certain basic building blocks of normal people are completely missing in them.

Happy Easter to you too!

[Louise7777]

I hope you'll succeed in not taking your relative's behavior personally. What helps me is that I don't see my mother and sister as real people anymore. There's something serioursly wrong with them, I know realize that certain basic building blocks of normal people are completely missing in them.

Happy Easter to you too!

Hey again!

You are right on everything you said, there are some basic blocks missing, no doubt. I can see that rationally, but still, I fight with it emotionally. I posted somewhere else that I have a hard time accepting that they are just like that. In my experience I have seen them behaving as predators, choosing the victims very carefully. So its hard for me to accept Im a target not by random, but theres something in me allowing her behaviour.

She has sadistic traits, as I have just realized... . I feel Im a mouse played by a cat. Its tough to feel so helpless! Even being quiet is a trigger for her, she has to make unpleasant remarks towards me. My desire is to fight back, all the way, but I dont do it cause Ill hurt many people around. I know it takes 2 to dance this weird tango, but no matter what I have tried, I still feel she has control.

I feel very sorry for you having to deal with ur mom and sister. Im glad you realized there was something wrong and now you protect yourself. You are wiser than me, I still feel affected by that erratic behaviour. But Im improving!   

[Kwamina]

Hi Cristina,

Good for you that you're improving! I don't think that I'm wiser than you though. I still get affected too, that's normal when dealing with extreme people like this. What really helps me now is that I don't live in the same house with them anymore. When I still lived with my mother there were many times that I wanted to move on and leave all the negativity behind me. The problem was that my mother wasn't changing in the same direction, her behavior was actually escalating which I didn't expect. Her constant chaos and negativity always kept dragging me down again. Only after moving out was I finally able to really start healing from all the hurt, living with her made healing impossible because she kept inflicting more and more pain.

You're absolutely right that you're not just a random target. I realize that certain basic building blocks are missing, but that doesn't mean that they are crazy. In my experience people with BPD know exactly what they do, when they do it and whom they do it to. The building blocks that are missing are things like empathy, remorse etc. but they definitely are not crazy. They are wired differently but they are still wired nonetheless. I realized that my mother wasn't just plain crazy when I was 18 years old. One evening she was raging at me like she was totally out of control for a long time. Then one of my sisters got home and as soon as she stepped in the living room, my mother immediately stopped raging. She was able to completely turn it off just like that. A little later when we were upstairs and my sister wasn't around, my mother immediately switched back into witch-mode. This amazed me at the time. There's something seriously wrong with her yet at the same time it's clear that when she wants to, she can control herself. She only rages like this when she thinks she can get away with it, when she thinks she has an easy target and/or there's nobody around who would intervene. Your relative's probably like this too, she not only thinks that you won't say anything about her bad behavior, but I think she's also convinced none of the other relatives will do anything about it. If they are standing around doing nothing while she verbally attacks you, they're actually enabling her bad behavior.

Before I go I'd like to say that you shouldn't feel forced or obliged to attend this family gathering, especially since it's at that person's house. If you don't wanna go you shouldn't. But if you do wanna go, maybe because of the other family members you'd like to see, just remember to not take her s**t personally and set clear boundaries with her when she misbehaves. If her negativity gets out of hand, just leave because you really don't have to just sit there and take it.

[Louise7777]

Hey Kwamina, thanks for your words!

Its amazing to see that BPD people have such similar behaviours under so many circumstances. The rage attack can be pretty scary. Like you, I was puzzled to see how she is raging and suddenly stops if it works for her. It was an eye-opener for me also! I had assumed she had no control once triggered, but that was not true. One thing about them I have learnt the hard way is they really enjoy creating fights. When its over for them they feel relieved but I feel the anguish for 3 days... .

I think we could write books on BPD, since we have been exposed to it for decades. Although Im improving, it still stresses me (as you can see, Im thinking abt the meeting 1 week in advance!). Maybe Im just too worried and it will go smooth, with them you never know! I will keep you posted.   

[Louise7777]

Hey guys,

I thought about posting an update here cause there was some "consequence" to my behaviour at the family gathering: my aunt complained to my mom about my behaviour (!)... .  LOL. Said many things, among them that shes my mom too (what?) and that I didnt talk to her friends. And since her friends are supposed to be my friends (WHAT?) I should had... .  Also, has her daughter I have duties towards her, like visitation, taking her on a car ride, etc (OMG!).

As you can see, theres no way to win here. I have to endure the meeting, not answering to provocations and still is not enough. Well, I should had known its NEVER enough unless you become a puppet in their hands.

I bet those comments were spread all over and I turn out to be the bad guy. Im ok with that role, I already impersonated it, cause its the only one left for me (apart from slave, which Im not taking). I just cant take the histrionic traits she and other member have, its too much for my stomach... .  

So, Ill be NC for at least another year, its the best to do. 

[Kwamina]

Hey cristina! 

So you're the bad guy now and apparently have two mothers  How does your mother (the real one) feel about your aunt? Does she know and acknowledge that there's something wrong with your aunt? Does she agree with the things your aunt is saying about you?

If the only choice you got is between slave or bad guy, I'd probably go for bad guy too! 

[Louise7777]

Hey Kwamina!

How are you doing? Hows life treating you? Still celebrating your new king and queen? 

My mom knows theres something very wrong about her sister. No doubt. But still, she cant accept that and hopes for a change. Yeah, we are Catholics, we believe in miracles!  Although growing an amputated limb would be more likely than my aunt behaving normally. 

Believe it or not, my mom agrees with her to some extent. She thinks I should be nicer to my aunt. Meaning, being beaten up and smiling back, "cause shes not normal". "We have to forgive". YEAH RIGHT! She knows, however, that I restrain myself many times, just bcz of her. If I only considered myself Id tell my aunt a piece of my mind and it wouldnt be pretty.

My mom is also aware that her sisters behaviour got at that point cause no one in the family stopped her. Everybody turned inside out to make her wishes accomplished. And trust me, shes evil. VERY evil. I got sick once and she told my mom "people get what they deserve". In one of her sisters marriage, inside the church she said to her sister "lets see if this will work out". WHO DOES THAT? I really cant label that behaviour. I dont need to give you more examples, Im sure you know exactly what it is like. 

Im ok about her behaviour towards me, I dont expect anything mildly nice coming from her. You know the type, they fight and rage and try to humiliate you. Also, shes very jealous. I know she was furious cause I talked to a friend of hers in a normal way (I cant with her). She probably painted me black with that lady so I messed it up somehow for her.

I just want to be away from messed up people. God bless NC! 

[Kwamina]

Hi Cristina  

We are still celebrating indeed, it was a very special day. Hopefully they won't turn out to be a NPD king and BPD queen though

Catholics, or at least some catholics also believe in exorcisms if I'm not mistaken

Is your aunt the oldest child? I know the type indeed, 3 years ago my uBPD sis actually wanted to get into a physical fight with me, my mother and other sister had to come between us. She was yelling and pointing in my face and then she wanted to fight with me. It was crazy. What made it even more crazy was that this happened on Mother's Day.

[Louise7777]

LOL Kwamina! I thought about exorcism indeed. Im in doubt either its a legion of demons or a force of nature (like a tornado) thats inside of her.  She never gets tired of fighting, its amazing. She enjoys it a lot, actually. You must know the sadistic traits. Its exahusting. She has a histrionic side as well, and thats tiring too... .  I dont have the stomach anymore to be part of the audience. (No, shes not the oldest.)

Im sorry for you. For us, actually! I wonder why they pick us as targets. Are we weak? Are we not going to fight back? Do they see something in us that they hate? Or envy? I dont really know... .  

I can tell you that if I were you, Id go physical. Im very patient but I have my limits. Maybe then she would beck off forever. I can tell you that the moment I yelled back all changed. I became respected. If I had known that, Id had yelled years before. 

[ScarletOlive]

Hi cristina2323,

It's tough when family creates drama and family politics require we witness it. I feel for you. It sounds like just stepping to the side and avoiding the drama as much as possible was the best option in this situation. Good job!

Said many things, among them that shes my mom too (what?) and that I didnt talk to her friends. And since her friends are supposed to be my friends (WHAT?) I should had... .  Also, has her daughter I have duties towards her, like visitation, taking her on a car ride, etc (OMG!).

Sometimes there's not much you can do except acknowledge what is said, understand they're upset, and state what you can and cannot provide. Did she say this directly to you? What direction do you see yourself taking in response?

[Louise7777]

Hey Scarlet!

No, she didnt say anything to me, she said it all (and much more) to my mom. My mom actually phoned her to see how she was doing (huge mistake!) and all she got was aggression (as I had expected).

I dont intend to deal with it in any way, to be honest. Usually, in family gatherings, she doesnt look at me or gives me terrible looks. Never calls me by my name and what she tells me is either to insult me or annoy me. Shes incapable of an honest conversation. She said all that to my mom in order to hurt her, not to have some kind of improvement in our relationship. She hates me and has behaved to me in terrible ways. But I feel much stronger now and I really dont care. Shes the one having her life destroyed because she chose that way. Destroyed from my point of view, cause she still has an entourage of people who serve her, for many reasons, selfish or not.

Id say to her "well, thats life, we dont always get what we want"  She was a spoilt child during her whole life, so she cant accept things happening out of her way. I understand she goes nuts when her unreasonable needs are not met. I dont fight that. I just let go and stay away from all the mess. Its the healthiest thing to do.

Im just considering if I should join the next gathering (next april) or not... .  Maybe I will not. 

[ScarletOlive]

If she didn't say it to you, you don't have to do anything! YAY freedom!

She hates me and has behaved to me in terrible ways. But I feel much stronger now and I really dont care. Shes the one having her life destroyed because she chose that way.

It sounds like you are getting some great perspective and really moving toward radical acceptance, hun. You're right, you don't have to let her barbs control you or bug you. She has chosen her path and you have chosen yours. 

If you don't have to go next time, and want to avoid the drama, don't go! That's the awesome thing about being an adult is we can choose who we hang with. Stick around people who make you feel loved, respected, and secure. 

[Louise7777]

Thanks Scarlet! 

Her behaviour used to make me confused and sad in the past. Not sure I acepted it 100%, but Im aware there will be no change and Im fine with it. I just got a burden out of my shoulders. I felt I was dealing with a tornado for many years, not only me, but many family members were trapped in it. Some still are. But I saw the light: our relationship can never be normal, even if she changed, cause the damage over the decades was huge. So I dont expect anything from her and if she has demands towards me, its her problem.

I feel much better indeed. 

[Kwamina]

Hey again cristina!

I was just wondering how life was like for you growing up. I know you don't see your BPD aunts very often now, but was this different when you were a kid? Did you have a lot of contact with them back then and how was that like? Was the sadistic behavior already showing back then? Looking back at my own life now, I see a lot of things I didn't really see back then.

[Louise7777]

Hey Kwamina!

Thanks for you interest! I really appreciate it!   Hows life treating you? Dont tell me you are still celebrating your new South American queen! 

Answering your questions: believe it or not, I dont recall much of my childhood! Freud would say its a defense mechanism... .  LOL.

My 2 BPD aunts split their siblings in 2 groups (divide and conquer!). They made people choose sides. In result, the sibling who chose side A lost contact with siblings on side B. Yeah, sick and unbeliavable! They managed that cause people were blinded/ in denial or whatever... .  The result of this is it took maybe a decade or two for them to "unite" again.

So, I had contact with both during childhood, sometimes more, sometimes less, because of the "war" they inflicted on others. The "problems" (sadistic traits, histrionic, etc) were very set BEFORE I was born. I was just engulfed in that cause my mom didnt have boundaries (still doesnt).

I grew up witnessing all that erratic behaviour and had no clue that was abnormal... .  . I was not a target, but of course I received collateral damage. I became the sadistic one target when I became a teenager. It lasted until recently when I decided to remove myself from the scenario.

An update on the sadistic BPD: she phoned my mom. Well, my mom is severely depressed for 2 months and finally we see the meds kicking in. Well, she phoned my mom cause "the shark smelled the blood in the water". ;-) She hasnt phoned in over 3 years, unless she needed something. So, I see the phone call with extreme suspition. She invited my mom over, for coffee. Unusual, cz my mom visits her rarely, but she does, she doesnt need an invitation, actually. And my aunt refuses to visit us for years now. So, Im thinking shes inviting her to the lion´s den to set her teeth on my mom, that is in a very vulnerable state.

Of course I went nuts and stressed over it. Cause my mom´s wish is to go to "try to improve things". OMG! You dont reward bad treatment! Remember she told my mom terrible things less than a week ago, when my mom phoned her!

I believe my problem now is with my mom (we live together). She cant set boundaries and the consequences fall on me. I dont know what to do, actually. But Im very stressed, just antecipating what may happen. I believe Im wrong in trying to defend my mom, I guess Ill let her choose whatever she wants but she jas to deal with the consequenes herself... .  Any advice?  :'(

[Kwamina]

I've been all right and yes we're still celebrating But only 5 days a week now

It sounds like there was a cold war going on in your family. Did anything change right before you became your sadistic aunt's favorite target? I remember in my case things started to go downhill for me after my normal sister moved out. And after my other siblings moved out things got really bad for me 'cause now I was alone with my mother. Like you I didn't even realize just how dysfunctional certain behaviors were that I witnessed growing up, I just didn't know any better. Like my oldest sis using the threat of suicide to manipulate us, I had gotten so used to this that I was just like 'Oh god here we go again'. It annoyed me but didn't shock me which is strange looking back because suicide is a very serious thing.

Sorry to hear your mother is so severely depressed but good that she's being treated for it. The shark smelling the blood in the water is something I've also noticed with my own BPD relatives. They seem to sense when you're more vulnerable than usual and tha't's when they make their move. It's difficult when you live with relatives and through them find yourself getting sucked back into the BPD drama. I think you've already given yourself the best advice to deal with this situation, just set your own boundaries and what your mother does is up to her. You're right in saying that she should deal with the consequences herself if she chooses to interact with your aunt. Hang in there!  

[Louise7777]

Hey Kwamina!

Thanks a lot for your support, I really appreciate it. Its so hard, people dont understand! Im glad you (and others) are helping me. There´s nothing like sharing the same experiences to understand the whole process.

Oh yeah, cold war. And hot war too... .  . Dont forget the rages! 

I dont think anything changed before I became the target... .  I can only think that I began to think for myself, to have likes and dislikes and she had a hard time accepting it. I now believe she saw me as her "heiress", she wanted me to stop studying and get a job at the company she was (!). My parents refused that (of course) and I believe when she realized I was a separated person from her (and not her "copy" I became the target. There was no major event then, no divorce, no death in the family, no job change... .  I think she just wanted to dominate me... .  Why me? Maybe cause I was near by... .  

Like you, I heard abt suicide threats (from my other BPD aunt). But I was an adult already and honestly, I never believed it, although we´d go there to calm her down. Funny that her own kids were there listening to music as if nothing was happening. I now believe they have some fleas themselves or even a PD.

Im still sorry for my mom, Im caught in a situation I cant win: either I make a scene and tell her not to go (which is obviously wrong and will be my fault for not letting her do something she wants to do) or she goes and I will have to deal with the consequences myself also. Im not naive, I know that if she goes, she will come home much worse and it will be me who will deal with it. Its a no win situation, thats why I freaked out when I knew about the phone call. I cant believe how evil she is and how naive my mom is.

I dont get, no matter how hard I try, how my mom puts her sister´s well being before hers or mine. Sadistic people are very resourceful, but still, she says a word and my world turns upside down just imagining what may happen with a meeting... .  I improved, but Im still far from feeling calm and peaceful.

[boatingwoman]

Those little axioms like "your word is your word" doesn't apply when you are dealing with a mentally ill, manipulative, destructive person who has no bottom to her behaviors. 

So you have my permission to throw that out of the equation. 

What do YOU want to do?  That is the only important part of this. 

[Louise7777]

hey Boatingwoman!

What I really wanted to do is run as fast as I could... .   

Im NC, but Im under the stress of my mom being reeled in again by her sister. Rationally, I know that its her choice to meet her uBPD sister. But emotionally I wish she didnt meet her, cause she is in a very vulnerable health situation and it will make her physically worse, which will impact on me.

Shes severely depressed for the first time in her life and the meds are only beggining to work now (we are almost on month 3). It was hard to see her severely depressed for 3 months and take care of her, try to amuse her, take her to the doc and so on. And now, Im afraid the work we´ve been through for 3 months may go down the drain. Her uBPD sister knows the situation ... .  she knows my mom´s very vulnerable situation. Keep in mind my mom always helped her and when my mom needed she flatly turned her back on her. I dont trust her one bit. She phoned after years just to stick her jaws. Sad but true.

You know what, it just occurred to me, I will forbid her to meet her sister. Bossy, yes. Whatever it is. When shes back on her feet she can go if she wishes and face the consequences. But not now. As a caretaker, I forbid. Am I being selfish or a good daughter? Honesty is appreciated! 

[boatingwoman]

Delay.  I think it is a good plan.  Tell your mom that she can meet her sister at a later date but that you feel it is important that she take care of herself first, take it easy, keep stress down until she feels better and then she can decide when to meet.  See if you can bring up the angle of exhaustion-- how exhausting it will be to have this outing right now.

No harm in trying that angle.  Then back off and let your mom think about it.

[Louise7777]

Thank you so much! I will try the exahustion angle. 

[Cordelia]

You know what, it just occurred to me, I will forbid her to meet her sister.

I would stay away from this if you can.  Instead of trying to control your mother's behavior, just establish limits on what you are comfortable with.  If your mother does fall back into depression after seeing her sister, just say, I'm sorry but I don't have the energy to spend as much time with you to nurse you through this this time.  Establish some boundaries - I will take you to doctor visits, but don't have the time right now for extended visits where you try to cheer her up.  Just set limits so you're happy with what you're putting into the situation, and let your mother do what she wants to do.  It's so hard seeing a loved one do something that's clearly destructive to them, but sometimes it's a journey they have to go through for reasons we don't understand.  Just keep in mind it's not your problem, be there for your mom to the extent you feel comfortable, and detach from the situation as much as you can.  Focus on happier things!

[Louise7777]

Thank you, Cordelia. You are SO right about the journey, I dont understand and she must have her reasons for that. I cant really say what they are, she helped her sister her whole life. Shes always been there for her while the opposite is not true. More than that, if something goes bad for us, her sister feels happy (huge sadistic side).

I dont visit my mom, we live together, actually. Unthinkable for an American (Im assuming you are American), but for us its pretty common.  So I have to deal with the fall back 24/7. Its hard for me to see her down for almost 3 months and now finally shes recovering. I dont expect ANY help from family (I dont mean financial, I mean "moral support", but I really hope they dont rock my boat. Is that too much to ask for?

My mom hasnt mentioned the issue gain, so Im hoping she will wait for a while, at least. I agree with you, I have to detach, but I really cant... .  Its my duty to help, I cant turn my back on her in such a tough time. If I let things go, I feel Im not protecting her from more abuse. May sound crazy or weird to you and others... .  Ill keep you posted. Thanks a lot!