Agoraphobia

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

 Weird development: when I go out, the side effects of this break-up can still cripple me.

I feel anxious and old and unattractive and that I don't fit in

Anyone else finding it hard to get their mojo back despite having largely let go and moved on?

Thx

Bb12

[bb12]

 Weird development: when I go out, the side effects of this break-up can still cripple me.

I feel anxious and old and unattractive and that I don't fit in

Anyone else finding it hard to get their mojo back despite having largely let go and moved on?

Thx

Bb12

[maria1]

Hi BB12

I feel 'exposed' when I go out. I try and not spend too much time alone at home although I am having too lately due to illness. I enjoy my own company these days but I can see myself going down a road of feeling uncomfortable in places where agorophobia bites (supermarkets especially) and I can sort of see how this could develop.

I am a reasonably attractive, quite unusual looking, middle aged woman. People look at me but not, I think, any more than anybody else. If I leave it too long I feel uncomfortable with the attention. I need to keep out and about at a certain level to fee OK. I don't understand the attention because it is to do with how I look and I do not want that to define me. This isn't just to do with men looking at me it's men, women and children.

Everybody looks at everybody and it's part of being alive. I only feel it as uncomfortable when I spend too long away from it. I understand the need to get used to being alone as part of our recovery but I'm trying to do that in a slightly different way because taking myself out of society is dangerous to me.

Don't know if any of that resonates with how you feel?

I also wonder if it could be the places you are going? I sometimes find that it's the people I'm with and the place. When I was 21 I spent 6 months utterly depressed working for a law firm. Not only did I lose my mojo I began to believe that I didn't fit in anywhere in the world. Nobody spoke to me and they looked at me as if I was mad when I tried to smile or be friendly. I left and got a job elsewhere and found out I just hadn't fitted in there. Not my problem or their problem just a mismatch. However if I'd stayed I could have been thoroughly miserable for a lot longer!

[bb12]

Hey Maria

yes - I think you nailed it

I live alone and am quite comfortable with that. I am too old (45) to contemplate a house-mate, but the flip side of the permanent solitude is the tendency to do my own head in!

When I go out, I feel old and out of place. I am self-conscious and have a self-sacrifice attitude of "I really should not be here. These young folks are staring at me... .   for all the wrong reasons"

I think the BPD trauma for me is a lot like your law firm experience. Loss of mojo seems the permanent side-effect.

I need to get back out there, so am doing it, but feel very self-conscious when I do. Like he ruined my confidence

BB12

[maria1]

Maybe some different places are called for? Might take some time finding them. There's nothing worse than being surrounded by youngsters when it's taken all our effort to get out of the house!

I find music gigs great because there are all ages. Even the bands that look 19 years old have a really mixed audience. No good if you're not into music though. I'm struggling for gig mates too and don't like going on my own.

[Cumulus]

Hi BB  and Maria. What you are both saying is much the same way I'm feeling, ( also a middle aged woman, ok ok, just a little tiny bit older then you are). Maybe it is partly the time of life I am in, there is far less opportunity for mingling with people my age. Other women my age are involved with their kids, grand kids, spouses, vacations, retirement plans and all those other couple things. It does take effort on my part to make plans and go out with friends. I would far rather just stay at home and read or paint or garden. However, my very wise cousin told me I had to get out because otherwise I could become totally whacked and I would never know it because there wouldn't be anyone around to tell me.   I try and make the effort.

[bb12]

I would far rather just stay at home and read or paint or garden. However, my very wise cousin told me I had to get out because otherwise I could become totally whacked and I would never know it because there wouldn't be anyone around to tell me.   I try and make the effort.

So true. I worry that my maladapted thinking then leads to negative inner dialogue when leads to erroneous beliefs which leads to inappropriate reactions to things... .   and on and on it goes

Isolation can do this to us, I believe. That being said, re-entering the dating world does leave me wondering where all the good ones have gone. LOL. I feel like I am eliminating the less appropriate, one at a time!

Feeling ready for a r/ship again but not coming close

bb12

[maria1]

I think when one has been through a BPD r/s one is allowed to be extremely fussy on the other side!

How you describe the isolation leading to negative thinking is really well put. I'm do glad you started this thread because I've been feeling this but unable to describe it.

I have been on the dating sites for a few months now. I think it really does take time. It is good to get through disappointment that you don't find someone straight away. There aren't many men out the who will have the sane insight into themselves that you now have. So how about just enjoying getting out there and meeting men just for the sake if it?

Once I stopped hoping or even having any expectations if a relationship the whole thing shifted for me. In time I have made quite a few connections which may or may not become dates/friends may or may not lead somewhere slowly. It feels ok. Right now I am in touch with 7 or 8 men who in just enjoying swapping emails with, all very different.

But none of it is feeding my narcissistic side in the way this stuff used to. I couldn't cope with it before. Now in just seeing it for what it is and it will be what it will be. It's helping me see things more rationally. It's also making me think I don't want to get into a relationship quite yet.

[bb12]

agreed Maria

It's funny: I have often struggled with the concept of detachment - mistaking it for not caring.

I have never really been able to pro-actively understand it and apply it. But in facing the many new pitfalls of re-emerging onto the dating scene, I think I am finally getting it. And as you so wonderfully put it, the whole thing is about expectation - or more precisely, not having any!

I don't think there is anything narcissistic at all about having a few guys on the hop simultaneously. Perhaps, as you say, we can keep a few going at once... .   all unlabelled and without the weight of expectation. I think I will try that a bit more and not be so fussed if I can't pigeonhole someone immediately. I think that the emergence from the BPD trauma brings with it a level of consciousness and patience and forgiveness that was not there before. And also the inclination to not control, push or plan things to the letter.

Perhaps the insight we have into ourselves does make dating harder and easier at the same time 

BB12

[maria1]

Oh my god bb12 I have just realised that it is 'dating with detachment'- that's exactly what I'm doing but hadn't seen it. And it's OK! I may have to start a thread on dating.

It is hard being middle aged, female, and reborn. I think I was lucky to only have 10 months on my r/s but it still reached in pretty deep. The effects reached deeper and that is ultimately a good thing but there's no going back to how I saw things before. I have fewer friends and the ones I do have seem pretty messed up. I only want to keep the ones who want to work on their stuff.

It's a shame we can't just advertise but I'm pretty sure disordered people would apply.

[Maryiscontrary]

I would like to chime in.  In my situation, I have no problem dating. I have no problem if there is a mismatch. I really like being by myself as well.

But I do not bind myself by self concepts of age. I have friends and boyfriends of all ages and backgrounds. To me, it is an artificial construct to define myself by age, education, political, or economic status. If a guy has his stuff together, which is rare to almost non existent, I don't care what the package is.

[bb12]

The effects reached deeper and that is ultimately a good thing but there's no going back to how I saw things before. I have fewer friends and the ones I do have seem pretty messed up. I only want to keep the ones who want to work on their stuff.

Yep. We're on the same page Maria. Re-emerging from the carnage, we are fundamentally changed. I am regretting all kinds of choices now in past lovers and current friends. A cull happens where you only want to be with healthy people and even long standing friends who are not sorted become a mismatch for our new vibration. Strange but overdue. Finally growing up?

We've gone off topic a bit... .   But in a good way. To bring it back, perhaps my agoraphobic tendencies is just the new me reacting to loud, brash, narcissistic places and people

And MarycontrRy - agreed. My "type" has changed and I find myself attracted to sane a lot faster than hot! Lol

Bb12

[maria1]

perhaps my agoraphobic tendencies is just the new me reacting to loud, brash, narcissistic places and people

I think you are on to something here. I think the difficulty is that we live in a loud, brash narcissistic world. It's very difficult to find the few healthy people out there because they are few and far between. I think Mary is spot on too. If we let ourselves be limited by age and other things there really will be nobody left.

That's why dating sites can be helpful. I liked Mary's earlier analogy in another thread of 'weeding them out'. BB12 you referred to picking them off, one by one. I think this is a healthy approach, but we need to learn patience. And we/you need to find a way to be out and about in the mean time so that the isolation doesn't spiral against us.

I manage OK by going up to my local shops and doing little bits. I mean this keeps my contact with people topped up enough to keep the paranoia/ agoraphobia at bay. I buy eggs from one shop, fruit and veg from another, bread from the baker. It's also nice because I'm supporting my local community. But it's hard because I have to force myself. And I eek it out over days. I'm not sure it helps in the same way?

[rollercoaster24]

Hi maria1, bb12, Maryiscontrary, and Cumulus,

I know this post is a wee bit old, but I spotted it when scrolling through the boards, and it definately rung a chord.

Long before I met BP, and way back when I was 14, I had my first attack of agoraphobia on my way home from (1st) year in High School.

I had no idea what was happening to me at the time, but I really freaked out, thinking something was going horribly wrong in my body. It started off with shortness of breath, and then I started feeling like I was going to pass out, everything around me looked distorted and on a slope, then I started shaking all over, and found it difficult to continue walking, my legs/body were shaking that much.

When it happened, I felt embarrassed because I thought other kids walking home could see something upsetting was happening to me, so that made it feel even worse, like fainting in the middle of a street or something. It was highly likely that nobody even noticed my discomfort, but I felt like they could.

I tried distracting myself by going into the corner grocery store, but I then seemed to notice heightened awareness of everything in my surroundings, and I felt like all the other high school kids in there, (buying junk after school) could see I was feeling strange by the funny way I was walking.

They probably couldn't but when you are a teenager, it is one of the most self-conscious periods of your entire life, so teenagers often do funny random show off things, because they do think people are looking at them anyway, or want them to.

Later that day, I don't believe I spoke with anyone about what took place, but if I had, it likely would have been my Mother, and she may or may not have known what was happening, there wasn't as much knowledge around back then, for these types of things.

I don't think I suffered much in exactly the same way again, but did notice that I was suddenly more self-conscious than ever before, and wondered if others my age felt the same way, it seemed to me, that they did not of course, and nobody ever asked their peers for fear of shame/humiliation.

I also noticed that I suddenly became a very nervous person, when faced with large groups of people, supermarkets, shop streets, malls, queues, etc, sports games I went to, school, or parties etc.

Sometimes I could cope well, and others I just wouldn't go to certain things, because of nerves, (hand shaking when eating or drinking in public places etc). I did notice that when my period was due, the anxiety would soar, so I would avoid things, and then other days, I would cope OK with it all.

All this started to happen about the time that I got my first period as well, so I wonder if there was some sort of physical reason for the anxiety.  Walking down the streets was difficult, if guys came driving up behind me and yelled out rude stuff, (as they did those days often) I would feel like I was walking all funny, with shaky unsteady legs. This still plagues me today, and if I thought about not having it, I would have done so much more in terms of personal successes in my life.

There was also always major stresses in my life, mainly relationship abuse, and abuse from my childhood, (adult child of an alcoholic), not to mention an underactive thyroid, which I found out is a major factor in developing any anxiety disorders.

[rollercoaster24]

PS.

I later found out via research, and talking with others, that what I had/have, is actually called 'Social Phobia', it is grouped in with Agoraphobia, and the other general anxieties/phobias etc.

When in counselling over my life, my counsellor told me that it was rooted in excessive shame, and often resulted from emotional/physical/sexual abuse as a child, along with frequent periods of public humiliation from significant others in your life as a child. They could have been school teachers, other relatives, parents, strangers, you name it.

That theory seemed to fit, and made sense to me.

When I met BP, he told me he sometimes got anxiety in public, but I came to realise that he may well have been mirroring me, in the idealisation period. As he has always seemed to flit about in the general public, with no sense of shame for his actions at all, and if any strangers look at him in odd ways, he develops aggressiveness to deal with it. He walks through shopping centres with ease, sitting down to eat if need be, and has no shame. He could be screaming abuse at me in a phonebox outside, and then walk into a mall, with no sense of shame at all.

I really made the mistake telling him I was self-conscious in public, because he humiliated me publicly so many times, it wasn't funny, and this added to my already present fear. I found that I would not go back to any of those places for quite some time, (some never) after he had abused me verbally.

Anyway, just more of my thoughts, (there are so many!)

Thanks

[goldylamont]

hello all, sorry if this is a little off topic, but scanning through the posts i had a thought--i think you can use the internet to find some really interesting activities to get into. in particular, try searching: meetup.com --this site is awesome and has all types of groups for all ages and interests and you can search for things going on in your location. also, i think taking *classes* could be really fun to do. try sitting and think about something that you've really wanted to try but were scared to try out or maybe just didn't have the time before--and take a class on it! you will meet so many people interested in your interests and it opens up a lot of doors. i've always found that i need to surround myself with other people doing the things i like to do and this makes me feel happy and more at ease. i didn't read all the posts but perhaps this could help 

[bb12]

Hey Rollercoaster24!

Knowledge truly is power. The thing I found most wonderful about your posts  is that you have been able to name your nemesis: and the work on it consciously

All very traumatic but you seem to understand root cause.

That's a great platform for recovery. Just know that you were played by ex BPD. Take none of it personally. self-knowledge is the key to personal growth

Well done and keep going

This borderline will be no ore than a blip in the radar as you heal from deeper agoraphobic scars



Bb12

[Rose Tiger]

It's true Rollercoaster, the lack of shame the ex could portray was astounding after the most horrible behavior.  The curse my dysfunctional family layed on me was utter shame for existing.  To the core.  That takes lots of work to overcome.  The psyche will take over where the parents critical voice left off.  "You are so stupid"  "nobody cares about you".  Ugh.  Lies!  A big part of healing is calling the lies for what they are and to start speaking truth to yourself.  "I'm not perfect but no one is" "That didn't go well but at least I tried, I'll try to do better next time.  Kudos for me for trying"  "I did pretty well with that!  Yay me!"

Unconditional love and acceptance to ourselves, that we've been giving to everyone else all these years.   We know how to do this. 

[bb12]

Beautiful post Rose Tiger. Just stunning

The power of shame is phenomenal

You ever watched thus:

www.ted.com/talks/brene_brown_listening_to_shame.html



Bb

[Suzn]

That was a beautiful post Rose! BB that link is an excellent resource to understanding shame. Goldylamont is onto some good ideas too. I plan to take a class this fall, not sure what yet however want it to be one where there's the possibility of really good conversation, not simply sitting in a classroom staring at a big screen listening to a professor. (That's just me though)

bb I've found myself in the same situation of sorts. I am happy staying home reading vs going out. Being out doesn't bother me it's just different now. A new perspective for sure. I am in the process of building a new deck in my backyard, a more interesting place to entertain, and just to be when I am alone, than what I have now. This "building" is something I've always enjoyed doing so getting back to my interests. I think it's a process of following thru. We work on becoming more healthy then realize we strive for more contact with like minds. I picture having a book club and having meet ups in my backyard. I enjoy cooking and have saved a fair amount of chef sites on my favorites so I can try new recipes out with friends out there too. It's creating and visualizing what would make you happy and following thru making that a reality. Whatever that may be for you. Maybe once you focus on your goals and interests you may not notice what others are looking at if that makes sense. Celebrate your age, with age comes wisdom! And when one is on a mission for what they know will bring them happiness it can create a sparkle in your eye.

[myself]

Unconditional love and acceptance to ourselves, that we've been giving to everyone else all these years.   We know how to do this. 

Thank you, yes, it's very possible!

Here we go!

Here we are!

[bb12]

I am happy staying home reading vs going out. Being out doesn't bother me it's just different now. A new perspective for sure. I am in the process of building a new deck in my backyard, a more interesting place to entertain, and just to be when I am alone, than what I have now. This "building" is something I've always enjoyed doing so getting back to my interests. I think it's a process of following thru. We work on becoming more healthy then realize we strive for more contact with like minds.

Hey suzn. And thanks for your kind words

I reckon it could be as simple as what I've quoted here... . that thing you say about like minds. When we begin to emerge from the FOG a kind of shedding occurs. We shed our old selves, false beliefs, and even some friendships. Further, what we want has changed. What interests has changed. I am very happy with my age and my lot in life. Certainly don't wish to be younger again. But I do miss the confidence I once had: that feeling of belonging 100% whenever I went out. Zero doubts. Heaps of attitude!

It's coming back... . but with a lot more substance and proof points to justify the confidence!



BB12

[goldylamont]

Certainly don't wish to be younger again. But I do miss the confidence I once had: that feeling of belonging 100% whenever I went out. Zero doubts. Heaps of attitude!

It's coming back... . but with a lot more substance and proof points to justify the confidence!



BB12

made me feel so happy reading this! i think the key to belonging is finding your *tribe*. and we so easily forget, or even worse *shun* our tribal longings in this day and age of civilization. the beautiful thing is that we live and an era of super connectivity which allows us to find our tribes more easily. my tribes are music and tech. whatever yours may be, there are literally thousands, if not millions of others that think like you, hold the same values, present the same challenges and exist in the same headspace. and today with the internet it's faster and easier to connect with others. hell, i'll add "survivor of x w/BPD" to my list of tribes! just as available as the other gracious souls on this message board are, there are infinite other groups out there waiting for us to join them. really we've been there with them all along. reconnecting should feel like coming home, or, acting normal without consequence, when you find your tribe.