What is it about holidays?

[allibaba]

Our family had a really good Good Friday... .   spent Saturday with another huge family... .   had an absolute blast.  Had a late night Saturday night (trigger for undiagnosed BPD husband).  Sunday we went back over to our friend's house.  The kids had an Easter egg hunt... .   everything was pretty good.

He said that he was tired and we needed to go home so that he could recharge (great!).  When we got home it took a few hours but eventually he lost it.  I was on the phone with my young son talking to my mom wishing her a Happy Easter.  I had asked him if he wanted to call with us.  He said yes so we waited to call then he came upstairs and blew up that we weren't on the phone already (ummmm asked if you wanted to call and you said yes so we waited).  Then he said that woman never calls me.  I don't want to talk to her.  (OK)

Then he went into the fridge looking for bottled water and there wasn't any.  He called me a stupid expletive expletive when he knew I was with our toddler and my mom was on the phone.  I was so embarrassed.  I told my mom that I needed to go.  Put our son in the car.  Went downstairs told him that I don't drink bottled water so if he wants it in the fridge he should put some in as he drinks the other bottles.  I also told him that I was not impressed that he called me BLANK in front of my mom and our son and that I was going out for an hour and would be back shortly. 

We left the house... .   drove to a park and called my mom back.

This morning he leaves the house saying that he is going to find a girlfriend that he has had enough of my stupid BLANK and that all I care about is our son and my job (I support us) and that he is not going to finish this course that he has invested a lot of time and money into.  The final weekend is this weekend and all he has talked about is how much he loves it and he has finally found something he loves.  Now I do not believe that he is going to find a girlfriend.  We are a faithful couple and he is just trying to find ways to hurt me.  Not sure about the course.  He gets on self-destructive paths... .  

Once I came home I made Easter dinner and brought it downstairs for him.  We didn't speak for the night.  I was just thinking that this is not the first holiday dinner without him.  He makes such a big deal of needing Easter baskets and a nice dinner because he loves holidays and I put the effort in and well this is my reward. 

I hate hurting like this.  Off to read lessons.  Just don't understand this disorder sometimes (or ever)

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[allibaba]

I wonder if he's threatening to quit the course because he has to take a test this weekend and he is worried about failure.  I suspect that he woke up having an anxiety attack about the test (its a really minor test not a big deal). 

Should I say anything about the course?  I am tempted to say to him "listen you are smart and skilled and you are going to do well on the test this weekend.  Don't abandon something important to you."  But frankly I really want him to finish the course and I am worried that if I say something it will push him away from completing it.

SIGH.

[allibaba]

He just sent this to his 75 yr old father and then sent me a copy

**************

I am just too tired Dad... .   exhausted... .   everyday has been a battle for a long time and i am done fighting everyday... .   or anyday for that matter... .   going to get a deadend job and live out my days... .   i have acxomplished ZERO since getting married and moving here... .   i am literally rotting away sitting around up here... .   sad... .   but true... .   so change is inevitable... .   dont worry i wont go upsetting anyones plans... .   everyone is already fed up with me enough after a lifetime of s*** so dont worry ill not delve anymore out... .   :-)... .   i am far away enough to do what i have to do and no one will prob even know or care for about a year until  they have a boring day and think... .   huh... .   wonder what seans doing... .   then they will find out

***************

How do I respond to this?  I know its a cry for help but how do I respond?

[Cloudy Days]

Yikes! I've had those weekends. I think spending time with family triggers my husband. Especailly if we are around them for a longer time than usual. He is triggered more from his family though, his close family is the biggest trigger and they don't even live in the same state. I also think that test is a big trigger. Anytime my husband has to take a test that relys on him to make the right choices he will basically obsess over it until it is over with. And yes, he will quit sevral times before he succeeds.

As for what you should do about the letter he wrote. I don't really know, it reads like a suicide letter or a I want you to think this is a suicide letter. It's hard to know sometimes, if they are serious about something or if it was just something they said during a blow up. My husband says the crap about finding someone else. Specifically says, I'm going to find a real woman who will love me. My response is usually why do you feel like I don't love you? or something similar depending on what he said. If you can send a response to him I would Validate his feelings in the letter remind him that you love and care about him and leave it at that.   

[allibaba]

Well we just had a blow up. 

He started this morning on the fact that he will not complete the search and rescue course that he has invested significant time and energy into.  All he has been able to talk about for weeks is being part of search and rescue.  This morning he says that he has run out of time to study for his exams.  They aren't exams... .   they are barely even tests.  I know this because I introduced him to the opportunity through someone at work.  The guy at work was surprised that he was even worried about them.

He says that he won't finish the course because I do not provide a stable environment for him.  I cook and clean and provide 3 meals a day.  I work full time and support us.  I certainly won't win a good housekeeping award but I do ok.  He says that he barely ate over the Easter weekend (food is a trigger).  Its the biggest load of crap ever.  I made pancakes and we had roast dinners and we were over having massive meals at friends houses.  He says that he can't rely on me for anything.

So I tell him that I will not watch him walk away from Search and Rescue.  I know that he is stressed out about the tests but they are small and he is smart and he will have no issue passing.  First he throws his keys at me.   

He is trashing his life -- I wont stand by and be quiet.  I have watched him walk away from everything important in the last 5 yrs.  This is important and the reason that he is walking away is so minor. 

I tell him that he will complete the course and he pushes me over and kicks me in the shoulder and tells me that he hates me and that he is leaving after his brother visits in 2 weeks and his father visits in a month.  He says that he has told me for years that he hates me and is just making arrangements to move out (not true) our family is everything to him. 

Once again he is destroying his life due to anxiety.  The therapist I see says that he needs to get involved in something important to him if he wants to get his life back on track. 

I am horrified this morning.  First violence in our home that I thought I had put a stop to.  Second he is trashing himself again and all I can do is sit back and watch.  He has PTSD and anxiety.  He can't function.  I BPD I can work with... .   its the other stuff that makes our life miserable.

[briefcase]

I tell him that he will complete the course and he pushes me over and kicks me in the shoulder and tells me that he hates me and that he is leaving after his brother visits in 2 weeks and his father visits in a month.  He says that he has told me for years that he hates me and is just making arrangements to move out (not true) our family is everything to him. 

Once again he is destroying his life due to anxiety.  The therapist I see says that he needs to get involved in something important to him if he wants to get his life back on track. 

Have you talked to your therapist about his physical abuse?  Do you have a safety plan worked out?

[allibaba]

Yes I did and yes I do.  I was just surprised to see it come up as effective boundaries seemed to stop it.

[Cloudy Days]

That's rough. That really sucks he is making such a big deal out of these tests. Maybe he fears failing something that should be easy. So he's not going to take them at all just so he avoids the feeling of failure. Have you tried validating his fears about the test? I know you are really stressed out about this test. Seems like it might be hard I can sure see why you would be nervous about it.

I know my husband pulls the crap about leaving all the time. Every time he goes off about something he says he doesn't want to be with me anymore. I usually tell him I don't want a divorce but if that's what he wants I'm not going to stop him. Or I will just say do it then if I am really upset. He usually calms down and tells me he didn't mean it. We did the dance this morning actually. My husband is also triggered by food, He never wants anything we have even though he helped me pick everything out, I dread deciding what to make for dinner because it's never simple for him. Then he makes it out to be my fault because he doesn't know what he wants to eat.

The abuse is another thing entirely. Is he getting treatment too? My husband didn't stop things of that nature until he started getting therapy.

[allibaba]

Cloudy days.  Thanks for the tip on validating his fear.  Good call.  I hadn't realized by telling him that this was easy and nothing to stress about that I was invalidating his feelings.  Thanks again for responding. 

He won't go to treatment.  I have tried every trick in the book but alas no success.  I have contacted the therapist to get myself back in.  Obviously I need it.

I have done enough of the dance for today.  Said my piece.  Can't believe that I let myself get caught up in the conflict.  Doh.  Thought that I had gotten past that.  Its been forever since I let him drag me in.  Its just this Search and Rescue course was important to me because it was something that he would be good at and it was something that would give meaning back to his life.  I guess I have to let go.  He needs to make his own choices.

I try not to get too excited about anything these days because inevitably I am setting myself up for disappointment.  I was collecting maple sap over the last month to boil into syrup - yesterday I discovered that the 80 gallons had been knocked over.  I can't prove it but he did it.  I am sad.  He knows that that was important to me. 

As for the food... .   its a big nightmare, but I wonder what would happen if I put him in charge of it.  I'll tell him to plan it and then will just execute the plan.  That's an idea.

[Cloudy Days]

Good thinking on the food thing  I usually tell my husband to think about what he wants for dinner. It makes things easier if you come up with a schedual for dinner though. I have done that before, I wrote it out ahead of time so he knew what we were having, he stuck with it for the most part, you could try that too. We stopped doing it for some reason because I got lazy with the schedual but it did work while I did it

That really sucks about the maple syrup too, I've had similar disapointments myself with my garden. Except It wasn't a secret he did it, it was a rage that made me say your going to therapy or else I'm gone. So I'm happy he's getting therapy but it took him attacking me personally on a very low level. My garden wasn't the only thing he went after either. Before all of that happend, therapy was a joke to him so it takes hitting rock bottom sometimes before they actually look at themselves as mentally ill. Once my husband accepted it, he started to work on himself for real.

[allibaba]

What a great reply Cloudy Days!

I just booked another appt with the therapist.  He's very good and very experienced at dealing with BPD and PTSD... .  

Did giving him an ultimatum really work (go to therapy or I am gone).  My husband has told me time and time again that he is done with therapy and that if I make him go then he will leave (doesn't seem half bad today  ).  He's had it and he is just going to rot away and do nothing.  The thing is that he is still an amazing person.  You would think based on the way that he talks that he is a washed up loser.  Thing is that he is smart and good looking and about half the world wants to be just like him.  He has a beautiful family and an amazing house.  He's such a lucky guy but about once every few weeks he loses his mind.  I feel lucky to have him in my life.  He's amazing person when he's functioning.

How did he hit rock bottom?  My husband is pretty much there.  Hasn't worked regularly... .   he thinks he is sick but its just the fact that he keeps eating gluten when he is gluten intolerant.  Sits around and does nothing lots of days... .  

[Cloudy Days]

It was a number of things all comming together. Alcohol had something to do with his outragous outburst that led to it all. He did get charges for what he did that night, I convinced him that if he went and got help they would take it easier on him so that could have been a big factor too. I was the one that made the apointment and I went with him to make sure he went. I had to go about three times and then he started going by himself. I think the biggest difference though is he is getting DBT therapy. I've seen improvment in him in just 8 months. Compared to years of regular therapy that never showed any kind of improvment. That is also another thing that made him reconsider treatment, he had never done this type of therapy before. As for the ultimadum, I gave it to him in a nice way. I basically said something has to change and I gave him options, either it keeps going the way it is and eventually I won't be able to take any more and eventually he ends up in jail. It was a trigger when I said it, or he gets help and we get through this crap together. Once he soberd up from his drinking and got out of jail he was pretty apologetic and knew he had to do something to make things right cause he really hurt me.

But my husband doesn't work either, he's currently attempting to get disability for his mental problems. He's also gluten intolerant and completely ignores it. He's been seeing a doctor for stomach problems for two years. Has he changed anything besides taking medication?... .   Nope. Oh, he does refuse to take mental medication but he's had some bad expirences with it so I don't blame him.

[allibaba]

Wow.  That is a wild story.  I called the police on my husband back in October.  I could see in his eyes that things were about to go south.  I was EXTREMELY careful about what I said to the police and basically asked them to come out as a preventative measure.  He has no record as a result but it scared the hell out of him.

My husband had a situation with the police that legitimately was not his fault about 7 yrs ago.  This was the episode that triggered the PTSD.  Back then he was a pretty normal guy.  He had an amazing job.  We even used to go to relationship counseling sometimes and got tons out of it.   He didn't lie and sit around and do nothing... .   I have known him for about 12 yrs.

Anyway calling the police on him had a terrible effect and in one of his calm moments I promised him that I wouldn't do it again unless I really truly felt like I was in danger in which case ultimately we would need to go our separate ways.

I'll ask the therapist on Friday about the DBT.  The nice thing is that this therapist doesn't believe in formally diagnosing these issues.  That is actually a plus for me because my husband is totally paranoid about being labelled with mental illness.  I just have to keep trying to get him there.

[coralreef]

Ah, so it's not just my BPDDad 

BPDDad and his own BPDMom make a big deal about holidays. He's always a nut about staying out of debt and complains about how much money my mother and the kids spend, though truly it isn't cheap at all to care for a family of 6 with the healthy food and clean clothes he demands, while on every holiday he runs himself (and us) ragged spending a ridiculous amount of money on pretty things (which is blackmail later).

BPDGrannie used to withhold things like shoes and toothbrushes from her 10+ kids all year just to have a big Christmas (they were quite poor). Yet still BPDDad goes and eats steak every day at restaurants without telling us so... .   part of the BPD package I suppose... .  

This Easter was pretty good though, better than the last. I've been introducing my mom to the BPD diagnosis and how to handle it, that the key is to set boundaries and not let him lean on her for emotional support (he swung through the Hater and Clinger personas about five times throughout the week). So, my mother and I focused on OUR agendas with other people, and left BPDDad to fend for himself. We had a relative come over to look after the kids indoors and make dinner, though he still redirected his want of an emotional outlet by snapping at the little kids a few times. Maybe you're supposed to wean them off the emotional umbilical cord instead of cutting it cold turkey? In response to my mother, me, and my adult sister, the prime targets for his emotional wants, being increasingly unavailable to him as we settle into our own lives, he shifted into Clinger drive primarily and instead of pushing blame and justifying his actions and emotions because we're all xyz, he turns more toward my mother and says things like, "I'm so angry! Doesn't that make you angry too?" The first thing he does is either direct blame, or tell us what he feels, and we want him to say how he feels instead of the blame, so we're resolving to give him attention if he does that. He doesn't really know it, but we're training him 

The issue is just that once we say, we have X to do, so we don't have time for "this," he likes to respond by threatening to eliminate X because whatever X is about is "evil."

Big big big congrats to my non-BPD mother for stepping up and telling him straight out that she won't ask his opinion on a decision like what to have for dinner anymore unless he says something he's sure about first. He got quiet and shifted gears from Hater to Clinger again. We're seeing more of a silent Clinger, so I think my mother is making the right changes; his fear of abandonment is beating out his desire to lean on her, so it looks like he keeps more of his angry thoughts on the first step and doesn't go further, since "Hell!" or "This sucks!" usually goes to "Hey YOU, it's YOUR fault!" he just repeats the first phrase and rides it out himself lately.

[allibaba]

After all that the rage ended and he reached out last night. 

He is nervous but says that he is going to complete the search and rescue course.  I can still see the terror in his eyes.

I am going to take a half day off tomorrow to help him go through the material.  I figure that its the least that I can do.

[allibaba]

And he is ready for therapy and the guy that I have seen does DBT and is ready to see him... .   HOPE... .  

[Allure]

Alibaba,

Why are you with him?

I'm so sorry, I am not being judgmental at all. I went through this with my ex husband, supported him through college, etc, was afraid to leave him because of our young child but in the end, I left and I was glad I did because he actually pulled himself together and now has a family and is able to support his family.

Do I regret leaving him? I do for the sake of my child not being near him for years but me leaving him was the impetus of him having the confidence to actually make it on his own.

In the end, I'm glad I left him because I realize now that he really did not love me the way my now husband loves me. My ex husband loves his current wife the way my current husband loves me.

Both men are proud to be able to support their wives and that is how men's genetics are. They are not happy unless they are supporting their wives.

My ex husband could never be able to support me because his income was never going to surpass my income even after he got his degree so he did everything he could instead to sabotage our finances. He can easily surpass his current's wife's income.

My now husband can easily surpass my income and is able to give me the lifestyle I had before we got married.

I guess my question is are you with him because you really want to be with him or are you scared to leave him?

[allibaba]

I am with my husband because he is smart and well educated and funny and has a good personality.  He's the life of every party.  He has taught me many things about how to live a normal life (ironically)... .   like consistency of structure and routine.  My family is very dysfunctional and despite my husbands issues he is a good man with a kind heart.  We have taught each other a lot about parenting.  My husband is amazing with our little boy as long as he isn't in the middle of a freakout (don't know the technical term).  Aside from the absolute insanity of PTSD and BPD and anxiety... .   my life is far better with my husband than without him.   Obviously its difficult when he's losing it.  My husband has a high level of self awareness when he's not paralyzed by fear

I am not a person who needs my husband to support me.  I'm an executive at a mid size high tech company.  The only thing that saddens me is when he doesn't feel good enough.  That's the thing.  My husband is an amazing person.  I am pretty sure that if he starts to do things that give him his self esteem back and gets some treatment for the anxiety and BPD then he has a good shot of getting back into full time work.  He is high functioning at work as long as he is in the right environment.  He worked a professional job back in October but even I could see that he did not belong where he was.

I say all this even in the context of the fact that my husband woke up having an anxiety attack this morning (nervous about successfully completing the course) and immediately went to blame me and my behavior for his bad day (even though it was 5:30 am and I was asleep).

I'm going to see the therapist today and my husband wants to see him "sooner rather than later."  I know a lot of people have seen success with DBT.  Fingers crossed.

[Cloudy Days]

Just a warning, I don't want you to think that when he does start getting therapy that you are going to see a whole new person. It doesn't happen quickly and actually after therapy appoinents are a nightmare sometimes because they talk about some really emotionally triggering things and then send them on their way. I still hate therapy days and I try to avoid my husband on those days as much as I can. Cause he's just too grumpy! My husband also called in a LOT when he first started the therapy. He's getting better now though.

My husband had therapy yesterday and I had 1/2 a bad night. The other 1/2 he was ok. I think what helps him the most though is that he has a therapist to talk to instead of me. When he has a problem with how he feels he doesn't come to me to figure it out for him, he talks to his therapist first! He texts her instead of calling her. That takes a lot of stress off of me. he says he doesn't feel like he is getting better. But I have noticed significant changes in how quickly he calms down. I think he is just still in a whole lot of turmoil in his head so it doesn't seem like he is better to himself. Which is a shame beacause he's doing so good, he deserves to feel better. I just need to remind myself that he is not 100% better and he will disapoint me again but at least it won't be as bad as it was in the past.

[allibaba]

Cloudy Days,

Thanks for the gentle reminder that therapy isn't a cure all.  I remember my husband going to his old therapist a few times and I do remember that he was a nightmare afterwards.  My husband self diagnosed himself as BPD about 5 yrs ago and printed off the symptoms and took them to the therapist and the stupid therapist told him... .   "nope you definitely don't have that."  Arg!  My husband said that the old therapist was an incredibly nice man but it was obvious that he didn't have any relevant experience in this area.

I did go to the new therapist yesterday.  The new guy is an older gentleman.  He's a professor at the local university and he specialises in BPD and PTSD.  He said that his first goal is to transfer some of my husband's dependence on me onto him.  He also tried to reassure me by saying that in 40 yrs of practicing he has never had a male patient come see him and not return for a follow up sessions.  I am just hopeful because for the first time in probably 4 yrs that my husband is open to getting help and I have confidence in the therapist.  Ironically I wouldn't have found the guy if I hadn't call the police on my husband in Oct.

By the way... .   husband is off for a full day of search and rescue this morning.  His tests are first so send him good thoughts.  He woke up 3am thinking that it was 5:30 and woke me up to help him.  I had to tell him to go back to bed.  He was nervous and grumpy but at least he is there now and called to say thank for being supportive of him despite his insanity.

[Cloudy Days]

That's great he is getting some therapy, I would want to smack that therapist for telling him no... .  

I think the biggest thing about them getting therapy is getting someone who knows what they are dealing with. My husband goes to a place that only treats borderlines. I figured we are lucky that such a place exists within driving distance from us. It sounds like you have found someone that will help tremendously 

[allibaba]

Cloudy days,

I know that it won't be a cure all... .   but I am really pleased. 

He also passed all of his exams and courses this weekend with flying colors so that has given him some earned self-esteem that he really needed.