How do you deal with the post-split "if onlies... "?

[sad but wiser]

Hi everyone.  It seems to me that most people who are splitting up with their BPD partner have a huge case of self-doubt.  This seems to be true even when the BPD person left the relationship for another relationship or behaved so badly that there was no question - for a reasonable person - of getting back together.

How can we deal with the , "If onlies... .   "?

It doesn't seem to help much to rationalize the situation, does it?  There is such a sense of not having done enough, no matter how much was done to make things work.   

Now either those of us who get stuck in BPD relationships are almost limitless cups of generosity pouring endlessly into the black hole of emotional BPD need, or we are missing something important that people who don't get stuck in these relationships know instinctively.

It seems to me that we had better figure out what that something is before loneliness drives us back into another relationship, even though nearly all of us have sworn off ever having another relationship again, ever.  REALLY.  We mean it.  (So we will probably get sideswiped by a new one, rather than figuring out what is real first.)

Does this make any sense?

[laelle]

Hi everyone.  It seems to me that most people who are splitting up with their BPD partner have a huge case of self-doubt.  This seems to be true even when the BPD person left the relationship for another relationship or behaved so badly that there was no question - for a reasonable person - of getting back together.

How can we deal with the , "If onlies... .   "?

It doesn't seem to help much to rationalize the situation, does it?  There is such a sense of not having done enough, no matter how much was done to make things work.   

Now either those of us who get stuck in BPD relationships are almost limitless cups of generosity pouring endlessly into the black hole of emotional BPD need, or we are missing something important that people who don't get stuck in these relationships know instinctively.

It seems to me that we had better figure out what that something is before loneliness drives us back into another relationship, even though nearly all of us have sworn off ever having another relationship again, ever.  REALLY.  We mean it.  (So we will probably get sideswiped by a new one, rather than figuring out what is real first.)

Does this make any sense?

It makes complete sense.  I know that no matter how much I give it will never be enough.  There is a part of me that wants to keep trying.  I would like to cut that defective part of me off.

[KE151]

You've hit the nail on the head here. I was recovering from my BPD r/s last year when I met the woman of my dreams (yep you read it correctly). Things were great for a long time i.e. 6 months but now in hindsight I saw her constant lying, tremendous overreactions to any emotional stimuli, withdrawals etc quite early on but somehow chose to ignore them. When I finally realized all of this was busting my boundaries, I was already in very deep, in love with her and very close to her kids. Fast fwd, we broke up yesterday after a 2 month period when she did the push/pull on me. She's not BPD but has some strong NPD traits. Anyway, I'd like to think I've learned some more about myself and my own codependency issues. Still, difficult not to get cynical here, but I'm seriously doubting my own ability to withdraw when I see that a r/s is not healthy for me.

[Mightyhammers]

You've hit the nail on the head here. I was recovering from my BPD r/s last year when I met the woman of my dreams (yep you read it correctly). Things were great for a long time i.e. 6 months but now in hindsight I saw her constant lying, tremendous overreactions to any emotional stimuli, withdrawals etc quite early on but somehow chose to ignore them. When I finally realized all of this was busting my boundaries, I was already in very deep, in love with her and very close to her kids. Fast fwd, we broke up yesterday after a 2 month period when she did the push/pull on me. She's not BPD but has some strong NPD traits. Anyway, I'd like to think I've learned some more about myself and my own codependency issues. Still, difficult not to get cynical here, but I'm seriously doubting my own ability to withdraw when I see that a r/s is not healthy for me.

So you are saying you went from one BPD to another?

[KE151]

You've hit the nail on the head here. I was recovering from my BPD r/s last year when I met the woman of my dreams (yep you read it correctly). Things were great for a long time i.e. 6 months but now in hindsight I saw her constant lying, tremendous overreactions to any emotional stimuli, withdrawals etc quite early on but somehow chose to ignore them. When I finally realized all of this was busting my boundaries, I was already in very deep, in love with her and very close to her kids. Fast fwd, we broke up yesterday after a 2 month period when she did the push/pull on me. She's not BPD but has some strong NPD traits. Anyway, I'd like to think I've learned some more about myself and my own codependency issues. Still, difficult not to get cynical here, but I'm seriously doubting my own ability to withdraw when I see that a r/s is not healthy for me.

So you are saying you went from one BPD to another?

Nope, I don't think she is BPD, but has narcissistic traits or her own codependency issues. Bottomline is, she had issues which I (again) thought were minor or something I could fix... .   and decided to ignore.

[theboro504]

Wiser, I suspect it is that instinct to pour into others that may be what gets us into these relationships to start. I believe it not only makes us the instinctive target of a pwBPD, but we may even target them as mates because of the endless need they have for us to pour.

Just because the r/s ends, doesn't mean our desire to pour ends and it becomes natural to think, if I had only... . xy or z.

My friends tell me to stop beating myself up, but what they are witnessing is me going through that same ritual of remembering the times where I do know I could have handled a certain drama differently and wanting badly the chance to replay it and get it right.

The reality is though, we deserve to be poured into as well and maybe what we all here need to learn is we are worthy of being treated as well as we treat others. Maybe, just maybe, other people have an obligation or responsibility to us as well.

[spaceace]

I am so stuck on the 'if only'.

I am 5.5 months out since we broke up. We've been married 4 years this past March. Of that 4 years, we only lived together a total of 28 months because she kicked me out 3 times.

You would think the first time, if I was emotionally okay, that would have been the end. That is where I get stuck. But I went back 2 more times to get my heart shredded. Why? It wasn't like I didn't know this was a possibility?

Even now, today, the last few days, I have been missing my wife terribly. I have resisted every urge to send her a text. But the desire is overwhelming. But I honestly have no idea what I would even say? So, I don't send her anything. But I still wake up and she is there. Front and center. Why? What is wrong with me? That is my daily question to myself. Why? Why everything.

Then I start to think about how it ended this time. I used every tool in the relational handbook. I validated. I explained my answer kindly. I took a time out and did not fight. I left telling her why I was leaving and I would call and we could talk when things were calmer. That is what I was supposed to do. I executed it perfectly! I was happy and proud of myself. I didn't let it escalate to a point of no return.

And that was the last time I saw her or spoke to her. WHY?

And I sit here going over and over in my head, 'if I only would have' ... .  

Would have what? Bent over backwards and taken it up the you know where? And now, all alone, with my life totally changed, no more of the life we were building together, but a lonely solitary existence, I keep thinking, I should have done... .   fill in the blank... . because frankly, I have a million if I would have only's... .  

The truth is, I have been spared a life of misery. And I keep thinking 5 months out, it's okay. I will heal. But I wake up again today and there she is... . front and center. It sucks.

What if I only did this... .   great post... . there are a lot of great posts today... . and I needed to read them. I need a break. A break thinking about what if I did this one thing differently. What if I text her? What if I wake up and for one day, she is gone... . out of my head... . boy, that would be nice... .

[Mightyhammers]

The ‘what ifs’ go around my head constantly, I wasn’t really lucky ( unlucky? ) enough to read about this condition until she finished it, I think if I knew about it I would have been armed with information that I could have used to handle it, but then on the other side of the coin I may still be in a relationship that was on the road to destruction anyway!

If I hadn’t said that one thing ( yes ONE thing ) that made her flip her switch a couple of months ago, then maybe we would still be together – but a relationship like ours was a ticking time bomb anyway so if it wasn’t that it would have been something else?

[sad but wiser]

Thanks for all of your posts!  I'm looking for some common threads here that might present a picture that will help us.

Spaceace, I think the nutshell answer to your question (why?) is that she needs chaos.  Either a situation that is chaotic or a relationship that is chaotic feels normal to her.  (Perhaps adreneline is part of the hardwiring?)  If you provide neither the angst, nor the open door to create angst, she can't get anything from the situation, so it doesn't interest her.

Mightyhammers, I think you are right, it would have been something else - eventually.

Theboro, Laelle and KE, maybe we are all fixers?  We see something and we desire to restore it.  We all yearn, perhaps, for the garden of Eden.  We are willing to work and work for it.  I also suspect that all of us are used to success.  We have a hard time putting down something once we have put some effort in. 

But as C.S. Lewis said, "If you know you are on the wrong road, the logical thing to do is to turn around and go back."

What do you think?

[BradyK]

Post-split, I dealt with the "if only I had done this or that" by thinking very hard about the good relationships I have with friends and family, and the good romantic relationships I had before the BPD r/s.

In these healthy relationships there are no "one false moves". There is no "walking on eggshells", no landmines, and no arbitrary, surprising deal breakers. Just the opposite -- there is a lot of good-will and willing compromise and meeting in the middle, and the mutual desire to have things work out. It was hard to remember what that felt like because I was so wrapped up in the BPD r/s.

So why did I find myself struggling in that unhealthy relationship? I think it was partly wanting to see a return on my emotional investment, partly believing that I am so special that I might be an exception/antidote to his patterns (ha!), partly thinking that he has so much potential to be a great guy because of his genuine good qualities (like he would suddenly just change), and -- much later when I lost my sense of self -- believing that he might be the only person who would ever love me again. Yes, all of this thinking is very flawed!

[spaceace]

sad but wiser... .  

Here is the crazy thing about your thoughts... .

She was ALWAYS adamant she could not stand having chaos in her life.

But when looking back, I can clearly see, there was a tremendous amount of chaos. And little what I brought to the plate created chaos.

During the last year, while we have been separated, not living together, but seeing each other almost daily, (and what was the point of being separated?) I made myself a promise to shut up, deny myself any needs, and just give fully to the relationship and expect zero return on my needs. I did this purposely to see the outcome. I mean, if I ask for nothing, nada, zero, how can I be a problem?

Kind of a self serving and a sadistic point of view, looking back I agree, but we were separated. And there was a part of me that didn't want to rock the boat in ANY way, just so we would get back together. Yes, a very tight rope I walked.

Yet... . at the end of the day, the amount of chaos was completely brought on by her... .   which I could go on and on about... .   but I think you are correct in your thoughts... . she needed chaos all the while stating, she could not stand having chaos (me) in her life... .

Makes little sense... .  

[sad but wiser]

Yes, Spaceace, yes!  This was my experience too!  I tried not being there, not creating ANY waves, not needing anything back from him.  It was still chaos.  It was worse chaos.  Weirdly, he does very well in a real crisis.  Then he is calm, knows what to do, etc.  The minute the crisis is over, he becomes unreliable and difficult.  This makes sense if he is comfortable only in crisis mode, right?  For me, this was exhausting.  Everything was a crisis!  Who can live like that?

Brady, I can relate!

[KE151]

BradyK points out something very interesting here: emotional investment. Once we have started to emotionally invest in a r/s, it is difficult to "divest". I think there is a similar logic like in financial investing: once you're in, you don't want to get out when you're losing because that means you'll lose what you have invested up to that point. It's not easy to admit failure. Maybe that's why we come up with the what-ifs?

[beachgirl009]

I'm 10 months out of my relationship and about 5 months of NC. 

I have the "If Onlies" when I receive contact from his side.  Like last night.  I've blocked numbers but he seems be getting a new one every couple of months now. I am strong enough now though to not reply.  The first 5 months... .   no... .   I couldn't resist and I rode a terrible rollercoaster of self doubt and anxiety.   

When I get those though, I go all through the 'If Onlies" and they really come back to now "If only he could have been the man I wanted him to be and not the man he is"  "If only he had wanted to attempt to be a provider for me."  "If only he had thought about his cutting words when he was splitting."  "If only he would just let me go... .   "

The more time you have without contact, the more those thoughts of reconciliation and how you would go do things differently won't be as all consuming. 

[Peace4ME]

Post-split, I dealt with the "if only I had done this or that" by thinking very hard about the good relationships I have with friends and family, and the good romantic relationships I had before the BPD r/s.

In these healthy relationships there are no "one false moves". There is no "walking on eggshells", no landmines, and no arbitrary, surprising deal breakers. Just the opposite -- there is a lot of good-will and willing compromise and meeting in the middle, and the mutual desire to have things work out. It was hard to remember what that felt like because I was so wrapped up in the BPD r/s.

So why did I find myself struggling in that unhealthy relationship? I think it was partly wanting to see a return on my emotional investment, partly believing that I am so special that I might be an exception/antidote to his patterns (ha!), partly thinking that he has so much potential to be a great guy because of his genuine good qualities (like he would suddenly just change), and -- much later when I lost my sense of self -

You've said the words I'ven been struggling to find!

[sad but wiser]

Beachgirl, it sounds like you have a handle on this thing.  Relationships must go two ways, at least grown-up relationships must.   It is okay to expect something out of a relationship, as long as you are also giving to the relationship.  Does this make a person selfish?  Or is it selfish to withhold our own needs and to be vulnerable?

I guess that depends on who you are being vulnerable with, right?

[bb12]

Great thread sad but wiser!

In schema terms, I think we're dealing with 'unrelenting standards' and 'self-sacrifice' and you're right, we need to address those as we move on.

In addition to wanting to keep on giving and trying to repair the r/ship, the disbelief also contributes massively to the "if only's"

To watch someone detach so completely so quickly, and treat you so poorly simply can't be comprehended. So 'defectiveness' schema kicks in too as they convince us there is something fundamentally flawed about ourselves. That creates a bunch of other "if only's" that are even more destructive as we beat ourselves up for some of our behaviour... .   and not know what to own.

BB12

[bb12]

So why did I find myself struggling in that unhealthy relationship? I think it was partly wanting to see a return on my emotional investment, partly believing that I am so special that I might be an exception/antidote to his patterns (ha!), partly thinking that he has so much potential to be a great guy because of his genuine good qualities (like he would suddenly just change), and -- much later when I lost my sense of self -- believing that he might be the only person who would ever love me again.

Solid gold. This one goes straight onto the fridge! : )

[sad but wiser]

Yes bb, this whole thing is surreal.  I feel a bit like Rip Van Winkle.  Here I am, suddenly on my own again.  What happened to the time invested in the relationship?  How could he leave so quickly and completely?  Why are all of his "solutions" to our relationship problems, "Let's get you fixed so that it can go back to the way it was where you were the cause of all my misery and responsible for my life."?  It was as if he had the whole thing planned out, so that it didn't really surprise him. 

[SadWifeofBPD]

It seems to me that most people who are splitting up with their BPD partner have a huge case of self-doubt.  This seems to be true even when the BPD person left the relationship for another relationship or behaved so badly that there was no question - for a reasonable person - of getting back together.

How can we deal with the , "If onlies... .   "?

I went thru this last fall.  H was in rehab, had filed for divorce and I felt cheated because I thought that he was finally getting well, and I wasn't going to benefit from the improvement.  My sister (a T) warned me that if we got back together that there would be a "honeymoon" period, but soon he'd return to his horrid ways.  H came home in November, there was a honeymoon period, but then he did return to getting drunk, raging, etc.  

So, now he's gone again and I am so relieved.  Any "what ifs" involve me thinking, "what if I hadn't married a pwBPD."  My "what ifs" no longer involve him at all.  Because as my sister says, "he's never going to get better. He's an addict, he's abusive, and he's got at least one serious PD."  And, she's right.