BPD/ NPD/ HPD

[Louise7777]

Hey guys,

I wonder if you could help me distinguish the terms above. The thing is: I met a relative today and to my amazement I saw many histrionic traits. Its not a new behaviour, she has always been like that, I just never thought much abt it, but since I have been reading a lot I realize its a PD. Her mom is uBPD, btw.

I have been reading abt the 3 words above. How can u know a person is a BPD with histrionic traits and not merely histrionic only?

I have seen this particular person rage at me at least in 2 occasions, just cause I didnt have the same opinion as she did (on a minor issue, very uncalled for!). She has many histrionic traits, but what makes me undecided is the raging... .  

Thanks!

[GeekyGirl]

Good question!

BPD = Borderline Personality Disorder

NPD = Narcissistic Personality Disorder

HPD = Histrionic Personality Disorder

APD = Antisocial Personality Disorder

They're all specific Cluster B (dramatic, emotional or erratic) disorders outlined in the DSM IV. They each have some overlapping traits, and it's possible, as you've found out, that someone who has one disorder (say, BPD) can have traits of the other disorders. In other words, that relative might meet the criteria to be diagnosed with BPD, and some of the criteria to be diagnosed with HPD. It's really hard sometimes to determine whether someone has BPD, NPD, ASD or HPD.

What would change if you found out that your relative had HPD instead of BPD? Are you looking for information about how to deal with her rages?

[Kwamina]

It's sometimes hard to classify these people. In my case after reading about all the different types of PD it was absolutely clear that my mother was BPD. With my oldest sister I wasn't so sure at first, she had many histrionic traits so I thought she could also be HPD. But after she turned into 'The Witch' several times (once with me and once with a coworker she perceived as 'weak'/prey), it really became clear to me that she's just like my mother.

I think GeekyGirl raises two very good questions. We often like to categorize people because that makes it easier to talk about them, but in many ways the exact label doesn't matter and won't change a thing. The most important thing is learning how to better deal with their behavior, like those rages. Being around any PD unfortunately often is like a living hell, depending on the first letter the flavor of hell will be a little different but it's still hell

What also makes it difficult to classify the specific PD is that histrionic, narcissistic etc. behaviors are things anyone can exhibit. The difference with a PD is that they do it more often and more extreme. Sometimes it's just learned behavior too, many children raised by BPD parents often behave like one themselves. I unfortunately had taken over some of my mother's characteristics too but am 'unlearning' them. Other kids raised by BPD's unfortunately really do develop a PD themselves. I've seen this with my sister and my brother... .   well I don't know what's wrong with him but something ain't right that's for sure. Maybe he's BPD or maybe NPD or APD, I don't know but what's most important for me is knowing how to deal with him and unfortunately that means NC.

[Louise7777]

Hey GeekyGirl and Kwamina! Thank you for your answers and clarifications.

Geeky, Im looking for info on how to deal with her histrionic traits, actually. Her rages directed to me were few (2 or 3), but now I realize she has always been putting up a show and I really dont want to be part of the audience anymore.

I googled the "how to deal with histrionic people" and the advice given is "nod and smile, go along with the stories/ behaviour". I dont think I can do that. What I did (and have been doing for some time, without realizing she has a PD) is turning my back and ignoring all her remarks and acting scenes. But I still feel Im part of the audience and it bothers me 9yesterday I couldnt simply leave). Actually, it drains me: the constant fake grin, the shallow personality and the fake acting. All that "constant movement", giggle, loud laughs and loud remarks annoy me. She wears a mask with a frozen grin but no real feelings behind. But I saw many other NPD traits also, like arrogance, fraudulent behaviour, etc... .   Thats why I wanted to find out exactly the differences so I can deal with her (or go NC).

You didnt say it, Geeky, but you kindly implied it: we get obsessed with labelling. Yes, you are right. But dont forget that information is the source for empowerment. So I feel like all makes sense now. But info is not an end, its the beggining of a journey on how to deal with it and to feel better abt the situation. I think we become so happy that we found out a name for a behaviour and we focus on it for some time and then we have to move on. 

Kwamina, "living hell" is really it. Just different types of hell, but still, abnoxious. Thank you for sharing your experiences, you helped a lot. Maybe going NC is the best for me too. But once or twice a year I have to meet them and then it bothers me, I have to figure out a way of not being so emotionally drained. 

[GeekyGirl]

Being with someone who is constantly looking for attention (and will do anything for it) is draining. I can really relate to that. It's even more aggravating when you know that the attention-seeker is doing things for show. I get where you're coming from when you say that you don't want to "nod and smile and go along" with her behavior.

It's possible that she has HPD, but many people with BPD can also have dramatic behavior. Unfortunately the only way to know what PD she has for sure is to have her diagnosed by a professional. What you can do in the meantime is, as Kwamina said, focus on the behavior that's upsetting and develop ways of responding to it that makes sure that your needs are met.

One technique that's talked about frequently here is SET (TOOLS: S.E.T. - Support, Empathy and Truth), which I've used with not just my BPD mother, but in a bunch of situations at work and home. The basic idea is that you can acknowledge the other person's point of view and make him/her feel heard, but you can speak your mind and uphold your boundaries.

Is this a relative that you see often, or is this someone you see only periodically?

[Louise7777]

Hey GeekyGirl! Thank you for your answer. I will read the link you sent very carefully.

I see her rarely, 2 or 3 times a year. But yesterday I was really drained. Im glad you understand how I feel, cause I couldnt get why I was soo tired! It was tough for me to watch 2 hours of her show. All that fuss, loud voice, constant giggling and completely out of order remarks made me exhausted.

There was no communication at all. For some reason, she never talked to me in the past, I was the one who always had to start with the small talk, but since I decided I had enough, we dont communicate at all. Of course she socializes with anyone else at the gathering, mostly in a loud voice so she can be the center of attention. Thats why you may be right, Im taking her ignoring me as some kind of punishment. Im fine with it, Im jus NOT fine in being audience.   

I just had a glance at S.E.T, but since there is no communication (and I really dont want to), Im afraid this tool wont fit (from the little I just checked). But I will read it carefully and if it doesnt apply now, it will for sure in other circunstances.

The point is: I can only think of turning my back to her and avoid everything, even eye-contact, cause it bothers me to be part of the audience. But, believe it or not, at some times she had to stand in front of me and do her fake acting, flattering some other family member (that she cant stand, btw). I dont have stomach for that. Any other advice? Or should I stick to turning my back and no eye-contact? 

Thanks a lot! 

[GeekyGirl]

The point is: I can only think of turning my back to her and avoid everything, even eye-contact, cause it bothers me to be part of the audience. But, believe it or not, at some times she had to stand in front of me and do her fake acting, flattering some other family member (that she cant stand, btw). I dont have stomach for that. Any other advice? Or should I stick to turning my back and no eye-contact? 

You've said that she likes being the center of attention and that she looks for an audience, so I wouldn't obviously avoid her--that might put her in a "victim" mode, but there are a few things you can do to minimize the impact that she has on you. In any case, I'd try to limit the time you spend with her beyond a polite, "Hello, how are you," greeting and a minute of small talk. You could ask another relative to join you or grab you away from the conversation. If you're at someone's house, you could pull away to help the host/hostess.

If she gives you the silent treatment, she may be punishing you. Some people with BPD (like my mother) use it to minimize the impact you have on them (thinking, "If I ignore you, you're insignificant". If you say hello and she doesn't say anything back or avoids you, she's the one who behaved inappropriately, right?

I hear you, though. What helps me when I'm anticipating an unpleasant event (a dentist visit, a party I'm not excited about) is planning something fun for afterward as a reward. That helps put me in a better mood so I'm better equipped to deal with whatever comes my way.

[Louise7777]

Thank you, GeekyGirl!

Yes, Im receiving the silent treatment from her. It seems shes punishing me. You are right abt becoming the victim: some years ago she cried cause a family member didnt give the attention she wanted (unbeliavably childish! and freaky to me!), so she played the victim/ hypocondriac card.

But honestly, I dont mind her playing the victim and me posing as the bad guy. I left without saying good bye to her, I was nauseated from her behaviour and I have my limits. So I looked as the bad guy anyway.

When I said she stood up in front of me doing her show she was not talking to me, she was talking to others but still making me realize shes there, imposing herself on me. I got out of there feeling drained, completely drained!

The reward idea was great, I deserve something after enduring that torture. 

If I have to meet her again Ill just stick to my plan: talk to others and ignore her, not even eye-contact. I dont care abt the repercussions, I just want my peace of mind. Maybe someday Ill be able to watch it and find it ridiculous and pathetic. I do, in a certain extent, but my biggest feeling is still exhaustion.