I feel dirty...

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

Today was the first day in almost a month that sexual thoughts have returned to me. And they had to be about my ex pwBPD. Part of me felt really dirty and empty for allowing myself to get turned on by thoughts of her, and the other part was happy that those kind of thoughts have returned. The empty feeling is because I'm so anxious to send her an olive branch email at the beginning of next month, the anniversary of our meeting (we had sex that day and we both could feel a spark of chemistry). I'm anxious because part of me thinks she will respond positively, because I think she's too ashamed to be the one to contact me (even though she half-heartedly asked for the NC). The other part is afraid she won't respond at all, even though from what I've read on this board and the way she treated me at the end most likely indicates she would want to reconnect with me at some point. The part of me that felt dirty was even though I know she strayed because of her disorder, I guess I still deep down feel she would not be worthy of me pleasuring her after the feelings of betrayal. We had been fwb's for so long before dating that I feel that part of our time together wasn't false or phony. We really were extremely sexually compatible. Just feeling really lost and unsure now... .  

[BorderlineMagnet]

Today was the first day in almost a month that sexual thoughts have returned to me. And they had to be about my ex pwBPD. Part of me felt really dirty and empty for allowing myself to get turned on by thoughts of her, and the other part was happy that those kind of thoughts have returned. The empty feeling is because I'm so anxious to send her an olive branch email at the beginning of next month, the anniversary of our meeting (we had sex that day and we both could feel a spark of chemistry). I'm anxious because part of me thinks she will respond positively, because I think she's too ashamed to be the one to contact me (even though she half-heartedly asked for the NC). The other part is afraid she won't respond at all, even though from what I've read on this board and the way she treated me at the end most likely indicates she would want to reconnect with me at some point. The part of me that felt dirty was even though I know she strayed because of her disorder, I guess I still deep down feel she would not be worthy of me pleasuring her after the feelings of betrayal. We had been fwb's for so long before dating that I feel that part of our time together wasn't false or phony. We really were extremely sexually compatible. Just feeling really lost and unsure now... .  

[hmmbpdhey]

Buddy I actually signed up today after reading your post, I have been on the BPD roller-coaster for around 5 years and trying to break free,none of this is your fault and Its kind of the same patterns for the majority of men, They mess with your head upstairs and downstairs its what they do... . Yeah the disorder is to blame but that's what shes got and she will continue having. Don't feel bad about your sexual thoughts because the majority seem to be very compatible with us nonBPD'ers and the rest of the men they lure... . You cant take it personally... . Its my first post and I hope it helps

PS they are quiet till they need you

[BorderlineMagnet]

Thanks for the insight Hmm. She's definitely the hyper-sexual type. She was never abusive to me in any way though (unless I consider the infidelity born out of abandonment and self esteem issues). I think I was one of the few (if only) guys she admitted to having BPD to. Her cycle is white trash losers that use her for sex and treat her like crap eventually. I am the exact opposite of that. Caring, stable, kind, and articulate. As a very high-functioning pwBPD I think she did treat me with kid gloves when it came to the end. I found out about the guy she was seeing through FB, told him about me, and he made her talk to me. Wasn't mean at all. No rage. Flustered, mad, frantic? Yes. But what I heard most was shame. And I even got her to sob when I left her with kind words instead of any cruelty. As far as that article describing the type of sex, it was really me putting on the show. She was my fantasy physically, but in terms of her ability she wasn't the best. Our friend's with benefits relationship was based on sex, but she didn't whirlwind me. Took us 6 months of bonding before out first date. She was a lot more intimate during sex to, enjoying long periods of kissing as much as me pleasuring her. I didn't feel like the human vibrator in the article. I just think this girl is in a lot of pain in her head from constant fear of abandonment that she uses sex to find new people. Yes, she has been quiet. But I think she did a little self-prophesizing in our last talk (what, you think I'm gonna break up with him and come running back to you), and speaking in opposites (right now I don't think I wanna talk to you again). I'm just still hung up on her honestly, and these sexual thoughts of her today just made the longing worse. I guess only time will tell how this turns out. I do appreciate that link though, thank you.

[BorderlineMagnet]

You hit it right on the head man: "Yes they hang out with losers and we think What the heck but they do it  because its easy for them to walk away". I think she was so flustered that I found out because she was telling me I was not losing her, and that she was lucky to have me in her life. And she was. I was probably the nicest guy she's been with that really cared about her, not just her body. Plus I'm a big step up looks wise from what she's used to also. I'm humble, but I admit I take very good care of myself and I've worked on my body at the gym for 20 years and it's something I am proud of. So I know there were numerous reasons she was hanging on to me.

We might have a similar history, although there was no marriage, I was with another pwBPD directly before my current ex. For 5 years that girl beat me down emotionally, and simply wore me out. Very low functioning. She is a textbook case for every rager, pusher/puller, self-prophesizing, sabotaging, splitting... .   you name it. It became a nightmare at some point, and she still hasn't let me go. I'm her go to guy now. But I stand firm against her and only allow her the most limited of contact, mainly for her poor parent's sake so I can kind of keep an eye on her. My current one though wa so different. So kind to me, so sweet, so loving. She listened to my problems and didn't judge, and we never had a single bad day together up until the end when she was inconsistent. I feel at some point she if she can overcome her core shame, or maybe if I reach out in a kind forgiving way, then she will feel the need for me again. She basically self-prohpesized that she would walk away from this scumbag when she asked me in a flustered way on our last call "What, you think I was going to break up with him and come running back to you?" I now believe yes, she will at some point.

So I can feel your pain about being busy with the new guy at the moment. From a glance at his FB page, he seems really  insecure (Hides almost all of his information, including friends, no profile pic, though flaunts their relationship) and his interests are all really stereotypical douchebag white trash things (all related to sex and women). She on the other hand has much more of her info public, though does not advertise their relationship to the public. So I believe his clock is ticking quite fast. He's fulfilling her need for validation through sex right now, that with me became to be intermingled with feelings of love and intimacy. Doesn't make it any less painful to know this, even more so actually. But we as non's know that we really aren't the second choice. We are the first. And we still are, it's just we are almost too good to these people yet they feel unworthy of our love.

[hmmbpdhey]

I jumped on here to give you a boost because its no good to feel bad about yourself it seems your not detaching your kind off waiting till she comes running back.

Please don't take this the wrong way because I use to do it with FB check out who mine was with and comparing myself to the other guy but your living her life at the moment wrapped up in who shes with and what shes doing.

Not to be harsh but If your willing to put up with the downs and the pain and wait for the brief fulfillment you will get from the relationship with her then don't beat yourself up and wait till she comes back because she will when she needs you and that will be solely up to her no matter what you do

[Want2know]

I understand what you are going through.  My ex and I got back together a few times.  It's a difficult cycle to break for some. 

It sounds like you are not ready to end this, and would ask you what is it that you want from her regarding a relationship?

[BorderlineMagnet]

I'm not taking it the wrong way or harshly, and I thank you for your words They did help, and that article offered some good insights. Trust me man, I know what I'm getting myself into. And this is my choice. I've actually made some attempts today to connect with some girls that have wanted to connect with me, but I was just emotionally still too hung up on the ex. I started this thread because I felt dirty about having sexual thoughts about her even though she's with someone else now. But those thoughts were actually kind of cathartic for my sexual side. It really kind of opened up a floodgate for me to be able to think about some other girls besides her too. And yeah... .   I am waiting in a way... .   All the reading I've done on here tells me she will be back in some fashion, it's just the waiting drives you nuts, which I'm sure you've been able to relate to also. Will my olive branch work on my time? I dunno really. If it doesn't then I'm sure as hell not going to be waiting any longer. When she pops back up I will make my choice, but until then I think feeling dirty may be the wrong thing to do. Enjoying myself in the meantime definitely will make it a lot easier. Thanks again

[BorderlineMagnet]

Want2know,

You are right, for me it's not over. I really enjoyed my time with this girl. Other than her infidelity (which I now understand the reason for it) she never caused me any harm. We really did have a great friendship and relationship. What I would want would be another chance at her armed with the knowledge I have obtained from these boards and other sources. I really, honestly forgot she had told me she was BPD because our relationship was drastically different than the pwBPD ex before her. I would want to be more upfront with her about her disorder (she did make the decision to tell me, she didn't have to do that), employ SET to maybe get an insight into what she is feeling, and see if she would attend counseling with me. She is a fantastic mom to her children, and while she makes poor choices, she never neglects her kids. I'm at the point in my life where a family is what I want. I know it won't be a perfect family, but what family ever is? She has made a more positive impact on me than negative at this point. I'm not perfect, I have my own set of problems too, and I feel that even though her disorder may not let her accept my love at times, she is still deserving of love. Safe love that will support her and her children, and give them all the best life I can give them. It will probably be painful, but if I can bring them some form of happiness and stability than it will all be worth it.

[Want2know]

There are many people on our Staying board that feel the same way you do.

When was the last time you spoke to her, and how did you leave it with her regarding a possible future together?

[BorderlineMagnet]

This tue. it will be one month sine we had our last talk on the phone, which was when I had told her new guy about me, and he made her accept a phone call from me. She was flustered and frantic, and when forced to make a choice went all in with him. It sounded more like she was projecting things that she wanted me to be on to him. Claiming he was amazing with her kids, and this after knowing him less than a month. Also claiming I knew her and her kids were a package deal, to which I responded that she never gave me the chance to be more to them, because when I wanted to she ws already seeing this guy. On the phone that night I was not mean to her at all. I just wanted to know why she did what she did, and why she couldn't just tell me when I had given her many chances to. This is really the first time I saw her BPD side out in the open. She projected that I was childish for doing what I did. When she would answer I did hear shame in her voice. I could tell she didn't want to answer because she kept trying to deflect the conversation to "I shouldn't be wasting my time talking to you when I should be making it right with him". She initiated the NC by saying "Right now I don't think I wanna talk to you again. Don't call, text, or email". I noticed that she didn't say things like she didn't love me anymore, nor could she admit what she did was cheating, bringing up when was the last time we had sex. I had told her it was a little more than a week before you met him, and within that week she claimed she had female problems and couldn't on Valentines day (although she did a lot to me that day otherwise, and got herself off on me in another fashion). I left her with this: "You were my best friend, I loved you with all of my heart, and I really was looking forward to spending the rest of my life with you". The flustered, mad, frantic tone drained from her voice, I heard a quick sob, then she said goodbye so sadly. I didn't even say goodbye and just hung up. So that's where we stand. I have honored her NC. At this point I'm going to send an olive branch email on the anniversary of our meeting the first week in may. It's not overly sappy at all, just short and to the point. I have no hard feelings, I understand why you did what you did, hope you can understand why I did what I did, and that you are still special to me. It says I miss her in my life, and if she ever feels alone, is in trouble, or needs someone to talk to, not to hesitate to contact me. I feel she may be too ashamed to reach out, even though she left herself backdoors to, due to what some here have called "intense core shame". Shame that I found out that she went back to her cycle of white trash lowlifes, shame that she thought I may be too good for her and would abandon her and her children. I'm thinking my last words really hit her (hence the sob and deflated, sheepish goodbye) so my olive branch might have a chance of mending the fence a bit. Right now I'm so anxious for that moment though, and it's all I can do to keep my mind off it at times.

[Want2know]

Knowing this is an anonymous forum, where being honest is the key to healing, what is it that you expect or want by extending that olive branch in May? 

Expectations may be different than what you want, so it would be good to think through both aspects so that you can better understand the potential reality, as well as address your feelings about it.

[BorderlineMagnet]

By extending the olive branch I just hope to open up channels of communication. To let her know I understand why she did what she did, and that I have forgiven her. If she is still feeling core shame, and thinks I may be lost for good, it's to let her know I still want her on my life in some fashion. If the communication goes well, I'd like to see if she would want to continue our relationship at some point, but with the knowledge that I am more aware of her disorder now, and that she would have to do some things like counseling, and communicate what she's feeling to me more. This would go along way to gain my trust back. I really do love her still, and I can understand that she may have made a mistake. God knows I've made many mistakes in my life, and without the forgiveness of others I would have lost some very special people in my life.

As far as expectations go right now I really have none. If I attach too much to expectations I may just end up disappointed or more hurt. I would like to think she would respond well, and be open to communicating since we were so good to each other. I've never said anything hurtful to her, and she has not to me. This is more of a hope than an expectation. I know clinging to hope is just as dangerous, but I'm doing things in the meantime to make my life better: strict diet, disciplined workout routine, abstaining from alcohol and marijuana, diving head first into finding meaningful employment, and even have begun to let myself feel sexual feelings and connect with some girls that have expressed interest in me.

[Want2know]

As far as expectations go right now I really have none. If I attach too much to expectations I may just end up disappointed or more hurt. I would like to think she would respond well, and be open to communicating since we were so good to each other. I've never said anything hurtful to her, and she has not to me. This is more of a hope than an expectation. I know clinging to hope is just as dangerous, but I'm doing things in the meantime to make my life better: strict diet, disciplined workout routine, abstaining from alcohol and marijuana, diving head first into finding meaningful employment, and even have begun to let myself feel sexual feelings and connect with some girls that have expressed interest in me.

It's good that you are taking care of yourself, and continuing on with life.  My concern about you contacting her is that she asked for a break, and is with someone else.  Contacting her could not go very well, and I think you need to be prepared that it could backfire.  Just think if you were still with her, and someone she broke up with contacted her with a similar message to what you want to send.  How would you feel, and how do you think she would respond?

I understand it hurts to be separated from her, and that you want to try and make things ok between you both in case there is a future for you.  I'm just wondering if perhaps it is too soon, or not the right time (ie. she is not single).  Things to consider... .  

[BorderlineMagnet]

I see what you are saying. The only thing I worry about is that if this core shame is too much from her, I may never hear from her again. She did mention the last time I saw her that the anniversary of us meeting would be coming up pretty soon. That's why I planned on sending her the message that day, in case she was thinking about me. And also she had no problem finding someone else when she was with me, so her being not single is kind of a moot point. Plus she didn't just outright break up with me. I forced her hand because I found out about him, and made her make a choice. She had me still thinking she was just taking time to think about us, and was confused about what she wanted when I found out about him. It might backfire, it might go well, I might get no response. My original plan was to send her a message on her birthday, which is at the end of May instead. I might change my mind and do that. I don't know. I just really want her to know that she is forgiven, and that she can talk to me anytime she wants to. But I'll just have to wait and see how I feel when these dates arrive.

[Want2know]

It might backfire, it might go well, I might get no response.

As long as you are aware, and remain in control with your contact, then seeing how you feel as that day approaches is valid.  I do understand wanting to let her know that you are ok with everything.  Just be careful about engaging with her too much, at this point.  A simple note is ok.  A lot of back and forth with emotion could really backfire.  Here is a link, if you haven't read it yet, that may be helpful:

TOOLS: Triggering, Mindfulness, and the Wise Mind

Stay in your Wise Mind, and you should be ok. 

 

[BorderlineMagnet]

That was a good article, thank you I have re-read the note I intend to send that day, and although I don't speak of love, I may have a little too much emotion in it ( i.e. You are still very special to me). I think I may still send it, but I will make it shorter and to the point. Such as I understand why you did what you did, I have no hard feeling towards you, and if you ever feel alone, are in trouble, or just need someone to talk to then don't hesitate to contact me. That removes much of the emotion, while still extending an olive branch. Being a pwBPD I still feel she may have been engaging in opposite talk that night by asking for NC in the way she did, so I don't want to let that possible shame consume her too much to the point of where I become a lost cause in her mind. But I think I will just continue to play it by ear as that date approaches.

[Hurt llama]

It might backfire, it might go well, I might get no response.

As long as you are aware, and remain in control with your contact, then seeing how you feel as that day approaches is valid.  I do understand wanting to let her know that you are ok with everything.  Just be careful about engaging with her too much, at this point.  A simple note is ok.  A lot of back and forth with emotion could really backfire.  Here is a link, if you haven't read it yet, that may be helpful:

TOOLS: Triggering, Mindfulness, and the Wise Mind

Stay in your Wise Mind, and you should be ok. 

 

Great post and link and it helped me in real time to be extra careful and mindful in the contact I am having with my ex... .   Moving the ball forward for my own reasons and process but it's important to realize it needs to be limited and there is always a danger in it for me.

[Hurt llama]

To the OP... .   I understand your feelings and need to share them with her... . and best of luck with it... .  

But I have a concern that you might be setting yourself up like a lamb to slaughter that by thinking because of your knowledge and understanding that you will somehow be safer and more secure.

Of course you might be right and I hope you are... .   and I don't want to be unduly negative but just feel you should be careful and protect yourself as much as possible... . (if it's even possible)

Of course, I'm speaking from personal experience... .   and its gone really well for me!

[BorderlineMagnet]

Hurt,

Thank you for your concern I know I could be setting myself up for even more pain. No matter how much I prepare, with BPD involved there really is no real preparation. The ex pwBPD before this girl consistently surprised me with how deeper in to pushing her loved ones away, and falling more in to addiction she fell, that I know there's no way to really be safe. I don't know what to really expect from my current ex. Our history is not as long as the one before was. I know I am different from her usual type of guy, and that may strike a chord with her about really working on a r/s. But at the same time she may not even respond to my olive branch. For all I know I could be erased. I guess if she had been mean to me at the end this would be much easier, but the closest thing we had to an argument was that last phone call, and that was like sunday school compared to disagreements with the previous ex. If she is open to giving us another try at some point, I will probably always have that fear she will run again, and she will probably have her fears that I'll abandon her still. My last comment to her was how I was really looking forward to spending my life with her, and I could hear the regret from her in that instant. Like she had a moment of clarity where she realized that her abandonment fears were false and "Oh crap, this guy was working towards marrying me". If she can remember that about me, and doesn't make a foolish choice with the loser she's with now, I hope we can continue what we had. Even though her empty sense of self may think she's not lovable, in my heart she is very lovable, and deserving of it. Many of these BPDs we come across in the stories on this board do seem like villains at times. She definitely does not, and they are not. They are people. People cursed with an affliction they cannot control. If I can bring anything that slightly resembles peace to this girl's life, than in the end, to me, the pain will have all been worth it.