Waif Behavior

[XL]

I'm totally sick of the waif behavior. Even when there's no manipulation involved, there's so much negative whining and crying and helplessness. If I have a 100 conversations with my mother, 89 end up in tears for random reasons. Sometimes I play a game, where I predict if she's crying when she picks up the phone. Crying in public when having to leave after a lunch. Me always giving calm, solid, actionable advice for 'unfixable' problems, then being ignored. I don't think she's playing a game a lot of the time, I think she's just a disorganized wreck who can't make good choices on basic things. Some of her problems are real, but she lacks the ability to put them in perspective or self soothe.

The toll of having a mother who has been weeping and depressed for 30 years straight is wearing on me. I'm developing avoidance behaviors because... .   who wants to put up with that much crying? It's a bummer. I'm exhausted.

I'm also responding poorly to other people in distress lately. It's like ":)on't care, stop crying, sick of needy, crying people with fake problems".

[XL]

It's like this: the amount of distress a well adjusted family would express during a funeral week is what she expresses decorating her kitchen, or arranging car repairs. I have been to wakes on my father's side that were less emo than dinner with her.

She also starts weeping instantly. We could be playing a board game where everyone's laughing, and boom, crying. This was insanely confusing as a child. I was always on edge, and didn't grow up with a good sense of how much emotion is appropriate for which types of situations.

[Clearmind]

XL, while a quiet BPD may appear helpless they really aren't. She is resourceful and will sort through it herself at some point.

I can understand it is distressing for you and triggering.

I am sure as a child you tried to do all kinds of things to cheer Mom up - you had no clue at that stage what was happening.

As an adult you are no longer that child who has no clue.

Do you feel the need to step in and rescue? Or frustrated because you can't do anything? Down on yourself for not being able to do anything?

Dig a little deeper XL - much of your feelings right now about this topic may actually lie in your feelings/thoughts you had as a child.

[skelly_bean]

I'm sorry XL. It sucks to feel worn out like that by someone else's dramatic behaviour. I can relate. She's been "sick with the flu" for about thirty years. She loves to go through a laundry list of her aches and pains and physical complaints and then say "It's fine dear, I'll just suffer quietly... .   "

I know she can't help it, but this martyr complex thing she has going is maybe the most frustrating thing about her disorder. Everyone is constantly "cruel" to her, even though she's been given more second, third, fourth and fifth chances than anyone I can think of. For example her landlords that let her get away without paying rent for three months will suddenly "turn evil" when they ask for her rent or ask her to move out. Then she'll call us in tears and need her children (who she thinks are terrible and ungrateful) to drive her stuff into a new place that we help her find.

She has inherited more money than anyone I know. She's inherited THREE large estates from family members. I'm talking nearly a million, a quarter of a million, and a large house - all separately. And she has spent all of that and then come begging for money from us.

I have had to pay for everything myself, where she has been supported by my grandfather for her whole life. I didn't see a penny of that money she inherited. I am tens of thousands of dollars in debt for school.

When I think about how much she has "suffered" at the hands of the world I want to tear my hair out. If I had only "suffered" so much I would be in a much better place.

/End rant.

Sorry for hijacking your thread for this venting. I am sorry your mom overshadows nice moments in your life like that with her disorder. Empathy fatigue is something I know very well... .  

[XL]

Exactly. It's the martyr complex mixed with general confusion on how to function. She also enjoys wallowing in the world's misery.

My main emotion? Irritated. It's just such a downer to be around that I don't want a closer relationship. I don't know if this is her way of shoving people further away.

I just talked to her and it was all hypochondria, terrorism, hating the neighbors, etc. There's no depth there, no actual substance I can relate to. Just gloom. I also don't even know how/if to bring up that subject. Like "I'd like you more but you're a total downer?" Maybe I could do that with a friend who was on my last nerve, but it seems wrong doing that to family.

I'd feel bad about the depression thing, but adults know therapy and meds exist if they want them. After multiple decades of this, it's just her personality, and it's not going to change. I would not have selected a friend with those traits, and it's hard to cope with since it's a pervasive world view and not a direct demand on me. I smile, nod, change the subject and half listen. I just dread our calls and visits though.

[XL]

I recently noticed she's doing this weird thing where her sympathy signals are on wallowing disaster mode.

Her: "Have you eaten?"

Me: cheerfully, "No partner isn't off work until 9, we'll eat at 9"

Her: almost crying, "I'm so sorry"     

I don't even know if she's listening to anything I say, or processing my emotions correctly. Or if there's some dementia or something else starting. It's not "right".

[skelly_bean]

Hmm... . yeah that's a tough one. Who knows what is going through their heads though. I've lately just had to accept that there's no logic that I'll be able to use to to determine what drives my mother to act the way she does. Imagine your brain releasing adrenaline, cortisol, all the chemicals it releases in panic mode constantly - for over 60 years. Who knows what they might be feeling.

But, in terms of coping - my sister says the same thing. She is in near constant contact with my mother (she is stronger than me - I can't handle it), and we've had this conversation plenty of times. How do you tell someone that you don't want to talk to them because they bring you down? Especially your aging mother?

My sister is funny. When my mom starts complaining about her aches and pains my sister will sometimes steam roll her and say "Ohh I knowww this hurts and this hurts and this hurts and... . " she'll just keep talking over her to talk about her own pains. My mom hates that and ends the conversation quickly because she isn't getting attention for her illness.

Doesn't seem like the right course of action, but sometimes you just get fed up.

I don't know. To be honest, it has taken me a loottt of therapy to get to the point where I feel like I actually empathize again. There was a long period where I felt like a terrible person because I just could. not. empathize. I knew that my mother was suffering from some kind of illness and I knew that you are supposed to care for your sick family members, but I had so much hurt and fatigue from the situation that the only emotion I felt for her is anger or resentment.

How can anyone possibly accompany someone on a roller coaster ride of emotions all the time? i  became emotionally calloused.

Do you have a therapist?

[chriskell]

I hate the waif behavior also. It's just so childish. When I was a parentified child, I was endlessly patient with my uBPDm's childish behavior, but now that I'm grown up and see through it I have no patience at all for it! Sometimes, I let her go on and on about her undiagnosed medical problems, issues with her neighbors and whatever her current hot topic happens to be. (Right now it is toxoplasmosis and the neighbors' cats.) I just make sure I have something to do before I answer a call from her such as folding laundry, paying bills online, unloading the dishwasher, etc. When the call ends, I actually feel like I have gotten some things done. I'm busy so I'm not so bothered by her ramblings. She never seems to notice that she does not have my undivided attention. Maybe this is passive aggressive, but it works for me.

[ScarletOlive]

XL, I understand how tough the waif behavior can be. It's especially tough when the conversations are so negative. Perhaps you could try gearing the conversation in a different direction and set a boundary against negative topics? Like, "Mom, I would like to talk to you about *insert pleasant topic*. Negative topics are unpleasant, so if you continue in that vein, I'm going to walk away/hang up." She may not change, but you don't have to listen to the unhappy topics if you don't want to.

Good for you for recognizing that this is who your mom is and that all you can control is yourself. That's Radical Acceptance and it's a really integral part of healing.

Sending you lots of caring and support. 

[XL]

I just make sure I have something to do before I answer a call from her such as folding laundry, paying bills online, unloading the dishwasher, etc. When the call ends, I actually feel like I have gotten some things done. I'm busy so I'm not so bothered by her ramblings. She never seems to notice that she does not have my undivided attention. Maybe this is passive aggressive, but it works for me.

Lol. I do that too.

I'm sad for her because I feel like she's wasted her own life moping and ruminating. She's just gave up on the concept of resiliency at a young age. I just want to shake her and shove her outside to garden or do something positive.

I'm trying to whine less in my own life.

[Clearmind]

I'm sad for her because I feel like she's wasted her own life moping and ruminating. She's just gave up on the concept of resiliency at a young age. I just want to shake her and shove her outside to garden or do something positive.

Do you feel responsible XL for her and her happiness?

[XL]

I'm sad for her because I feel like she's wasted her own life moping and ruminating. She's just gave up on the concept of resiliency at a young age. I just want to shake her and shove her outside to garden or do something positive.

Do you feel responsible XL for her and her happiness?

No. I'm irritated she refuses to nurture her own happiness. But I feel/am financially indebted to family members who do feel responsible to her. I also suspect low contact would be easier to manage than no contact.  She's in this isolated bubble in a rural area where all she has to think about are her immediate family and an estate that's too large for her manage comfortably. The fixers of the family see these problems and blame the estate, and not her.

I honestly wish she would move back to her home state, get a small condo with maintenance services and start over in a more connected community. I see that she is a valuable person to some people and I believe she could build some happy friendships with women her age; I am not those people. I'm burned out. Which is a step up from wishing she would accidentally die when I was a child.

[XL]

Which brings up this dilemma;

I've mentioned that in the past "Hey, why don't you move closer to the ocean, you like the warm weather, you could visit your family more, yeah?" Which gets the reply of, "I'd die if separated from my kids and husband." (My parents have been separated for almost 15 years). She's really fixated on keeping my father in the dysfunction attachment position.

Then she mentions "We could all buy property and move together on the same land!"

Then that brings up feelings of entrapment and enmeshment and a little bit of stalking concerns for me. I do have this dread that all hell would break loose if I ever moved out of state. I don't want to right now, but it's always in the back of my head that I'm not "allowed" to.

[Clearmind]

No. I'm irritated she refuses to nurture her own happiness. But I feel/am financially indebted to family members who do feel responsible to her. I also suspect low contact would be easier to manage than no contact.  She's in this isolated bubble in a rural area where all she has to think about are her immediate family and an estate that's too large for her manage comfortably. The fixers of the family see these problems and blame the estate, and not her.

Controlled contact maybe an option for you. Certainly some boundaries may need to be put in place.

Waifs want all those around them to believe they are helpless - they aren't! If folks around her wish to rescue let them. We can learn better.

How much contact do you have? I believe it’s important to see our role and how much we “help” in the name of feeling obligated. This can breed resentment.

We cannot make good decisions or balance out our emotions in times of stress and/or resentment if we are resentful.

Stepping back and allowing Mom to process some of her negative thoughts herself – I sense in your writing you may feel some obligation for Mom’s happiness. It’s understandable – however it maybe helpful to break this lifelong script of having to help Mom.

Mom isn’t doing anything wrong XL – she is Mom who is not well. It’s our choice to decide what to do with it – part of that is acceptance and part of it is building our self worth to learn not to feel obligated.

I'm burned out.

Please don’t neglect you!

Enmeshment and Codependence on our parents causes us to put others first before looking after us.

[eagerowl]

Mom isn’t doing anything wrong XL – she is Mom who is not well.

Totally disagree   

[Clearmind]

eagerowl, we cannot control our parents, we cannot change anyone - we can change our view and perception and we can set boundaries. We can make judgements about what they are doing however we still cannot change it. Continuing with judgements does not help US heal.

She is who she is just like my father is who he is!

Part of healing for us, is accepting who are parents are and who they aren't. This is radical acceptance - and this is what we want to achieve - otherwise we will continue to be stuck in the abyss.

Choice is yours.

[XL]

There are a few things she IS doing wrong. Gossiping, degrading other family members, intentionally breaking/neglecting her belongings to get attention, etc. Her views on disasters, death, etc. are her beliefs and aren't technically 'wrong', as irritating as they are.

Maybe I need to sort out what is worth setting a boundary on. If she wants to be mad at the neighbors, whatever. If she wants to talk smack about my friends or cousins, maybe that's where I put my foot down.

I think part of the problem too is this: they are SO resistant to criticism that they never change when they are annoying people. It ends up isolating them because everyone is scared to mention slightly irritating behavior. They just become more annoying as time goes on because these behaviors cumulate and there's no improvement on any of them. They won't hear insight on how they can help themselves maintain better relationships, and it's hard not to interpret that as a big, "Well f' you then".

The "eggshell walking" ultimately hurts them because they aren't receiving feedback as to why people don't like them. However, I've done enough of that and I'm not interested in being a 'social reeducation coach' at this point in my life.

[Clearmind]

Boundaries to protect you - not change her behaviour.

In relation to your friends and cousins - what boundary can you set? Are you familiar with S.E.T?

TOOLS: S.E.T. - Support, Empathy and Truth

[GeekyGirl]

Maybe I need to sort out what is worth setting a boundary on. If she wants to be mad at the neighbors, whatever. If she wants to talk smack about my friends or cousins, maybe that's where I put my foot down.

That makes sense. As Clearmind said, you cannot change her, and by setting boundaries, you're only protecting yourself. If she wants to badmouth people, that's her choice. You can choose to not listen to it.

Your mother, from the sounds of it, is deeply disturbed. I don't blame you in the least for being irritated by her behavior or being angry that she behaves in a way that bothers you. You're as entitled to your feelings as she is to hers. The thing is, because she's affected so strongly by the disorder, she just cannot accept or process how abnormal her behavior is. It's either just too painful for her, or she just cannot understand. Whatever the case, you have to decide how you'll deal (or not deal) with that reality.

You're absolutely right--this resistance to follow social protocol does hurt people like your mother. That's sad, but that's her burden.

What would you ultimately like to see happen between you and your mother, given what you know about her disorder and capabilities?

[XL]

What would you ultimately like to see happen between you and your mother, given what you know about her disorder and capabilities?

Like I said, I would want her to move closer to family that already delight in her company, instead of obsessively chasing down those of us who've dealt with her for too long. She drops the waif act immediately when she's on vacation and around people who think she's funny. It'd be better for everyone, but I can't do much more than hope on that.   

[GeekyGirl]

Like I said, I would want her to move closer to family that already delight in her company, instead of obsessively chasing down those of us who've dealt with her for too long. She drops the waif act immediately when she's on vacation and around people who think she's funny. It'd be better for everyone, but I can't do much more than hope on that.   

That does sound like a much better scenario for everyone, especially for you and your mother. Your mother has said that she doesn't want that, however, even though she probably would be better off if she moved. She's said that moving isn't an option (aside from the "buying land together" idea), so you have to respect her wishes. There might be other things you can do to take some of the burden off of you, such as hiring a housekeeper or reaching out to other friends/family to help her around the house.

I wish there was an easy button for these situations! I probably would have worn mine out by now. 

[WolfSpider]

Hi, XL

While the Witches might appear to be the most malignant type of BPDs, they are probably also the most obviously disordered and most easily identifiable... . and, as such, the choices for dealing with them may be fewer, clearer and more easily made: flee, or fight.

[healinghome]

i am soo familiar with waif exhaustion.  my upbdm is/was (now nc) a waif/queen with flashes of the witch. 

i found the delusional queen ridiulous and the witch was vile, but honest at least.  but the waif?        the pity party was exhausting.  every solution offered was met with a '... .  but... . i can't do that'.  i found it really helpful to remember that they aren't looking for solutions, but manipulation via sympathy.  they feel no real sense of power and the only way to feel it is to have others dancing to their tune... .  even if it is a pitiful one.  its the lowest of the low imo, because it uses someones empathy against them and destroys all trust.

I find the waif does the most damage.  because they express helplessness, but their motives are to control others. so it teaches the kids of BPD's not to trust expressions.  because they have experienced their ulterior motives.  I also find myself becoming very impatient and even resentful when I meet people expressing helplessness or self pity.

uBPDm uses her waifiness to manipulate others in the karpman triangle. 90% of the time she is the victim and 10% the rescuer.  it was exhausting.  the only solution I've found is walking away via nc, as my patience and tolerance ran out.

[Mandaryn]

My uBPDm showed flashes of the queen and witch, but most often the waif.  While I thought we were getting closer over the years and sharing with each other, I have realized that I fell into the same patterns as her and our conversations were nothing more than mutual 'poor pitiful me' parties.  If I truly did feel bad, or have something going on that I wanted to talk to her about (as I was not able to as a child, teen, and in early adulthood) she would always one-up me.  I felt truly bad for what was happening in her life--how my adopted dad wasn't there for her, how they never talked or ever shared interests from day one, how she would always get sick at work, how awful my (possibly uBPD) kid sister was treating her, etc. etc.  Always said with a smile and a, "but I'll just trust in God and suffer".  It hit fever pitch when she began talking obsessively about the situation with my sis and ex-fiancé (a detailed fiasco for another time) and how it was so hard on her, that my dad wouldn't stand up for her.  Once the fiancé was gone (fact of it was that he was probably not good for my sis, nor her for him) uBPDm started obsessing that perhaps, despite the turmoil, they were meant together and horror of horrors she had run him off?  Blech! 

Had a co-worker that would tell about her life and struggles and I felt so much for her, and even said that she reminded me of my mother.  After a couple years and realizing what is going on with my mom, I can hardly stand to talk more than a few minutes with this lady.  Waif personified.

[Mandaryn]

HealingHome2--I agree.  The 'waif' mask is completely to manipulate your emotions toward them.  I believe this is how my mom controlled me for so many years--I remember thinking that she was oh-so-fragile because she had been in an 'abusive' marriage (actually finding out the other side of the story it sounds like she did much of the abusing), she had ulcers in high school, hep A in late teens, chronic bronchitis and pneumonia, and so forth.  I can hardly remember a time that there wasn't some malady (even now, though she is in better shape than many people I know), and that I was selfish and ungrateful for not helping as needed.  Granted, there was a couple of years she truly was sick (had to have part of her lung removed when I was 12), and I assumed a bit of the cooking, cleaning, and caring for my younger brother.  She didn't dare ask adopted dad to do it--it was her way of keeping her hold on me.  At the age of 17, after I had started college, my now dh and his family were moving to a town 45 minutes away and he asked if I could come along and help, as we didn't know how much time we would get to spend together after that.  She was adamant that no, she needed me and I had to stay there and help her.  Later he stopped by and the tune was, oh, certainly you can go, with a smile--followed by a glare. 

I had no social life in high school because she needed my help (kid sis born when I was 14) and because of sis and younger brother, she couldn't be bothered to take me anywhere unless it was school related--even then, adopted dad was primarily in charge of that.

[healinghome]

mandarin - you also sound soo familiar with the waif and the lives they rob from people.  I thought the same of my uBPDm. that she was the victim in the (now divorced) relationship with my dad.  when I started thinking about her behaviour I also reolized that she was just as abusive as my father.  i'm sorry that you have experienced the BPD waif and their abuse, but glad that you are able to see through the manipulations now