BPD or not, who cares?

[KE151]

Sorry, I'm going off on a rant here.

Having frequented this great community of fellow sufferers now for a few years, I have to open up a bit:

many many many people here focus so much on what BPD the disorder caused, or what the person with BPD did or said to us. We seem to look at ourselves as objectives of someone else's behavior. I've done this as well, so someone please throw the first stone this way.

First of all, I don't think many of our exes or relatives that have caused us pain have actually ever been properly diagnosed. It is NOT OK for us to diagnose them, it's none of our business to diagnose others. We should definitely not start to label anyone else based on layman diagnostics. Instead, we should discuss these people's bad behavior and how it affects us but let's not diagnose, as most of us aren't educated to do that.

The point is, we are/have been in bad, sometimes emotionally/physically terrorizing relationships with people who may or may not have BPD. Granted, many of them certainly have the traits.

But shouldn't we focus on ourselves and decide what we are willing to accept to stay in such a r/s, or if we should get out? We seem to let BPD/bad behavior, or the other person determine our own reality.

And, who gives a rat's ___ what our loved one's diagnosis or non diagnosis is? Aren't we here for ourselves? Whether we are on the undecided/staying/leaving board, we should always, ALWAYS focus on what we can change and affect. That is ourselves and our own behavior. It doesn't help in anyway to label other people's bad behavior or complain that our partners or relatives have treated us badly. It's by our own choice that we let the chaos happen.

Let's get out of the role of the victim, guys and gals, and take responsibility. It is our choice if we want to be in a r/s or not, if we want to be happy or instead sacrifice ourselves to be in a r/s with someone who is not good for us.

Rant over. Sorry for being so black/white. Maybe I'm BPD too?

[NonBPDSpouse]

we are focusing ourselves, and how to get out.

There are Legitimate reasons some of us hold on longer than what you may think we should have.

By your comments I can confidently say that you don't need to be on this site because this site is to give support to people that are in relationships with people that have BPD or people that just act like they have BPD (it is one in the same in my book).

You are clearly not very supporting, and appear rather defensive.

If you have BPD or not could be determined by a doctor though, and maybe you should see one .

[minaccia]

KE,

to some extent I agree with you, we are not here to diagnose our ex's and the ultimate goal is for us to grow and to focus on ourselves.

I think you are missing one big piece of the story, though.

Before landing here on these boards for the first time, I was absolutely shocked and I was repeating to myself, to my family and to my friends the following words: " it is absurd! it is a nightmare! this can't be real". My family and friends were telling me things like " we all went through this, it is part of life, you are just heartbroken". My reaction to that was " you don't understand, this is different. The problem is not that we broke up, the problem is the way she handled the whole r/s".

The result was that I felt alone (and lonely) and I was experiencing something absolutely new.

It was like learning a completely new activity without having any knowledge about that. (think of playing beethoven 9th symphony without having any knowledge of music).

So yes, I went to a T, but at that time I wished I could spend all day for weeks with her to understand what happened.

That clearly  was not possible.

So? Thank God I found these boards! I started to understand, and to not feel alone (and lonely).

I started to read stories very similar to mine. I started to learn about personality disorders, and BPD in particular. At the beginning, yes, I "used" the BPD as a way to give myself a possible explanation for what had happened.

After 4 years with my exuBPDgf, I finally was able to say "aha, now I understand". And I will never, ever be thankful enough to the people who write on these boards for that "aha" moment!

But at the end I used this information just to detach a bit and to gain perspective.

I don't know if she is affected or not by BPD, and as of today I don't think it matters anymore. Now I am doing what I am supposed to do, focus on me, learn how to cope with stressful situations, and have fun in my life.

But, if I did not have access to this boards and if I hadn't learnt about BPD, I can promise you that now I would be in a much worse condition, and for sure I would be spending my days ruminating, drinking and smoking. At least this is the scenario I consider more plausible.

And I think that, complaining about our ex's behaviors, labelling them sometimes inappropriately, sharing your bad experience with other people on these boards, it is a necessary part of the detachment process. It may not be ethically perfect, I agree, but when the time gets tough, the tough get going.

[WalrusGumboot]

And, who gives a rat's ___ what our loved one's diagnosis or non diagnosis is? Aren't we here for ourselves?

I think it is important that we know as much of the root cause of the chaos so we can deal with it better. I'm sure you would agree that if you were suffering from daily headaches and go to the doctor, you would want to know what is causing it and have that treated, instead of taking ibuprofen to treat just the symptoms.

Let's get out of the role of the victim, guys and gals, and take responsibility. It is our choice if we want to be in a r/s or not, if we want to be happy or instead sacrifice ourselves to be in a r/s with someone who is not good for us.

This is a much easier choice for those with a BPD lover who can break up and walk away versus those in a marriage with children, those with a BPD parent, sibling, or in-law, or those with a BPD child. In the latter cases, walking away may not be an option.

While I understand the gist of your post and you posted it in the correct board, there are others that might take your post as inflammatory. Those here in Leaving HAVE made a decision. Sometimes it just takes a while.

[tailspin]

KE151 

I agree with you~ at some point "why" doesn't matter. 

You've had the benefit of this forum for several years and you understand it's more important to move on than to spin your wheels trying to "diagnose" someone when you are clearly not qualified to do so.  However, those here who are trying to piece together fragments of behaviors that truly don't make sense are searching for the reason why.  Maybe they aren't as far along on the journey as you are. 

We are all in different stages along the journey and it's important to acknowledge that not everyone heals the same way or follow the same timeline.  Those who are leaving/detaching from the wounds of a failed BPD relationship are in pain and seek comfort, validation and answers. Once these needs have been met they are able to acknowledge their role, take responsibility, and discard their victim status.  But this is a process and it takes time.

Perhaps it would be beneficial for you to check out the taking personal inventory board where you can explore your own motives and behaviors within the construct of the relationship?

tailspin

[causticdork]

I think without this board there's a good chance I would still be miserably trying to make my doomed relationship work, because I didn't understand how someone could love me so much and be so devoted to me, and then hate me for no reason ten minutes later.  Understanding this disorder (which my ex wasn't formally diagnosed with, but which explains her behavior perfectly) helped me to understand why she cycled through loving and hating me so frequently and why it sometimes felt like I was dating two separate people living in one body.

When I was still trying to make it work this board helped me find new ways to communicate and not make things worse.  When I realized I didn't want to spend the rest of my life focused on "not making it worse" then I was able to detach and stick to my decision much easier because I knew that the bursts of intense affection that followed my ending things were just part of her disorder and wouldn't last if I stayed. 

And now, when I'm trying to figure out why she goes from texting me, "Hi, how was your day, I miss you " to "I wish I'd never met you and I can't believe you're toying with my emotions like this" in the span of ten minutes, I can come on here and talk to people who have dealt with these crazy extinction bursts and then I don't feel so alone and frustrated. 

[momtara]

I think part of it is that we love them, or think we love them, or there is some love there, and we are good people and don't want to think the worst of others.  If we know there is an illness causing this, then we can figure out how to deal with it, whether that means leaving, staying, getting into therapy, or getting them into therapy.

[sunrising]

I see posts like KE151's fairly often on this board.  I generally find them somewhat inspirational and, in concept, I like a lot of what this post says.  The difference in this post and the ones I usually see is this post was written as "this is what we all should do" and the others are usually written as "this is what I've decided to do".

As a story of 1 person's current thoughts and position in the recovery process, this is wonderful!  As a suggestion that this is where everyone should be, I think it's probably overly-simplified and unrealistic.

But, good for you, KE151!... .     I look forward to being where you are!

sunrising

[theboro504]

I tend to agree with your comments. In the end it is us who need to answer questions about ourselves and not them. However, in the beginning, we just need an answer. My T told me the first clue we are involved with a disordered person is we are left confused and disoriented after being around them. If I walk away from a conversation with them and 5 minutes later I’m thinking, “what was that?” then odds are I have let myself get hooked into someone with a disordered personality beyond what can be considered normal human behavior and thinking.

So initially, after being made to believe we are the crazy ones, and I think for most of us, already having a weak sense of self worth to begin with, there is value in being affirmed in that, maybe this person was a mess before I got here. So maybe I’m not as insane as I am feeling. It is a launching pad of sorts to allow me to clear my head and begin to turn away. To lick my wounds and grow from it and pray I got the lesson this time.

Right or wrong, I did need to know there was a reason that this break up was as traumatic to me as it was and reading others tell stories I thought were my own helped me.

Ultimately I think you are absolutely right, there are reasons we would allow ourselves to be used and treated poorly and to blindly stay somewhere with a fraud and those reasons absolutely need to be addressed and resolved or we are doomed to do it again. We will remain an easy target for the same sort of person. So technically, it doesn’t matter what they have, they could have rabies for all we care, but knowledge is power. If we fail to take the knowledge and focus on ourselves and grow, that is a waste. In the meantime though, it can be, or should be, information that pushes us away from them and take the deep hook out we let be placed in us.

[GreenMango]

At the end of the day it is about the members here.  How you are doing, your healing, and growth.  Hopefully every member gets to this point where its less about the ex and more about them moving forward and living life again. 

Relationships like these have a lot of lessons in them.

Members come here at different stages - usually when first arriving they are wrought up.  Knowing and understanding what happened getting some answers can help in the beginning make step towards detachment and through the grief.

Extended periods of time focusing on the other person long run can keep a person stuck in a relationship that no longer exists.  If anyone feels ready to move forward to that next step we have the L6 Taking Personal Inventory (opens at 50 posts) and Building a New Life board. 

If you are focusing to much on your ex getting a PhD in BPD then maybe join the senior members in the next step of healing. 

[Clearmind]

KE151, the large majority of our members come here without a diagnoses. You are right we can never be 100% whether they are BPD or not and many probably have traits.

Interestingly the DSM, for diagnosing Borderlines has been changed from the 9 Criteria to a sliding scale model to the level of impairment. We all could probably score on some level of impairment and so could our ex’s.

Diagnosis: What are the new DSM-5.0 criteria for BPD?

   

We tend to make our own judgement – its usually a biased judgement because we were once in a relationship.

Due to a lack of diagnoses - I prefer to call our relationships high conflict – it takes two to create conflict – one to inflict and one to engage. We engaged! And we stayed.

I agree that the board's objective is for our own healing - if we want to choose healthy partners next time, we ourselves need to focus on getting healthy!

[fromheeltoheal]

You're right on a couple of fronts KE151: we aren't mental health professionals who are capable of diagnosing BPD, and playing victim is a way to get stuck, and it's healthier to look at our part, learn, grow, and move on.

On the other hand, some people have very identifiable traits, my ex certainly did, and I have always found it absolutely profound that the stories I read here describe the EXACT same traits.  That is comforting and makes me feel not alone.  And more importantly, towards the end of the r/s I felt like I was absolutely losing my mind.  Sure, relationships in general involve some "craziness", both getting into them and out of them, but not like this, never like this.  Pure insanity.  And to learn that there are disordered personalities that fit well-defined models, and I'm not the crazy one, at least when I'm out of it, is extremely reassuring.  Many of us WERE victims of all kinds of abuse, so "playing" victim initially is completely appropriate.  And looking at ourselves, learning, growing and moving on is appropriate in time too.

Thanks for your post.