Debilitating (infantilizing?) mothers

[justnothing]

Hi,

Sorry for being gone for so long… an incredible lot been had been going on in the past couple of months… (all of which is entirely, totally unrelated to this here post though).

I'm not sure how to phrase this so I may as well just spit it out: the oldest of my brothers was the golden child before my mom had to leave them with her ex and before she met my dad and I came along… After that I became the new golden child. My brother is much older than I am and getting close to his 40s these days. I think his wife has been a wonderful influence on him because ever since she came into his life he's been doing so, so much better vocationally… Before she came into his life there was a period of many years in which everyone was seriously afraid he might end up homeless eventually because of his total inability to get his act together job wise… I'm pretty sure he doesn't have any kind of PD, it was just a matter of utter immaturity, depending on his dad for everything and making irresponsible choices with money. Anyhow, now that he's in his late 30's and with a supportive spouse he's finally got decent employment and he's actually sticking to it. This was a relief for me fist of all because it resolves the "what will become of my brother in the end?" question and secondly because, frankly, ever since my teens I couldn’t help but notice the eerie correlation between the two of us, even though we don't even live in the same country. My mom always related to him in pretty much the same way she related to me [including the sexually inappropriate jokes and innuendoes and including a tendency to try and "push" him (in invasive, overbearing ways) to do the things that were supposedly "good for him"]. It's a good thing that most of their correspondence was via e-mail because he didn't get to find out (and never will, as far as I'm concerned) just how much and how badly she used to devaluate him, over every little thing but especially this failures. She would rant about him to no end and any time I tried suggesting anything in his defense it was like I was "taking his side", even though he and I were never close even by long distance standards.

Hehe… one time she had been ranting about him, in front of me, about what a failure he was and why couldn't he just be a man and grow up and get his act together the way he should at his age, tec'… and just then she came across an old photo of him as a baby… and, in the same breath, she went on to say "aww but look at him when he was so small and cute and helpless! Why do they have to grow up!"    

Anyhow… looking at my brother, even as a teenager and long before I even started therapy… it seemed pretty clear to me that there was a good change I might end up like him (the version from  before he got his act together) because while I wasn't into spending money impulsively and while I felt very serious about getting a career and a job and something… I always had this sense that I might somehow be "destined" to end up like him… in retrospect I realize that I was probably quite right in thinking that… From the time we were each little, she did everything in her power (at least subconsciously) to ensure we'd end up growing up as a couple of totally dependent waifs… through various means from not teaching me anything as a kid, to encouraging me to ditch school whenever I felt like it and not take my homework seriously to even trying to discourage me from doing house chores that I tried volunteering for at an early age. And during those rare times when I was allowed to do something voluntarily (like getting her things from the store etc', it was made into the end of the world if I'd made some kind of mistake like bringing the wrong brand or whatnot and that would be the proof that I wasn’t competent enough to do those kind s of chores yet…

I should point out btw that I only got my first job at 26; a minimum wage thing that I've been in for the past 2.5 years and will probably continue to be in for many, many more years because I'm terrified of trying anything else. My manager tells me I'm good at what I do with monthly reviews that are designed to be objective and are for everyone… and despite this I still don't believe I'm good at what I do and that they're just keeping me there out of pity or something… and I can't even do personal projects without feeling like the end result is worth nothing…

I imagine that the issue of debilitating mothers has been done to death… but even so I felt a need to ask… does anyone else experience a same thing when it come to achieving goals (not just work related goals but even just goals in general) as a result of anything similar? If so, were you the golden child by any chance?

[Kwamina]

Hi justnothing,

I was the golden child part of the time. I (unfortunately) lived alone with my mother for many years and in those years she would often 'split' me. Sometimes she saw me as all-good (golden child) but other times I was all-bad (demon child). This could change from one moment to the next which was very confusing for me.

I understand your fears of trying anything new. Two primary messages that I got from my mother were that 'The world is too dangerous so you'd better stay inside' and 'You can't do anything right so you'd better do nothing at all'. One of my mother's favorite activities was finding fault in everything I did. I now realize she was wrong and only did this to feel better about herself because she in fact had very low self-esteem.

[isshebpd]

Hi justnothing, sorry to hear about the problems you are facing with your family.

I also have a "golden child" brother who won't grow up, and our uBPDmom still does his laundry :P He is 35, has never established a relationship, and is uNPD. Many in the family hope he will meet a woman who will make an impact on him, like your brother's wife did with your brother. How does your mother treat your brother's wife?

I have career-issues too and low self-esteem. In my next meeting with my T, we are going to discuss my long-term goals. Due to PTSD, I have problems visualizing my future. Have you discussed your career problems with your T?

[justnothing]

Thanks for the replies guys…

I understand your fears of trying anything new. Two primary messages that I got from my mother were that 'The world is too dangerous so you'd better stay inside' and 'You can't do anything right so you'd better do nothing at all'. One of my mother's favorite activities was finding fault in everything I did. I now realize she was wrong and only did this to feel better about herself because she in fact had very low self-esteem.

Yeah… even now I have to admit that I don't really have a sense of what it was like to be with her and what kind of messages I got from her because it would change every day, several times a day and all the time. To my face she'd mostly send me "positive" messages I guess… along the lines of how I'm a total genius and am destined to greatness and also (not so positive but at least not negative) that I don't have to worry about bad grades or skipping school, ultimately it'll all turn out OK… When I was little, on the other hand, I'd get screamed at for hours on end, every single day over school work… although even then it was my best friend and her "bad influence on me" that got the blame for it most of the time… The reason I mentioned my brother so much was because it was always kind of eerie listening to what she had to say about him behind his back vs. to his face… we were both her golden children and at least to our faces she would tell us both pretty much the same thing.

I'm trying to remember if she'd find fault in everything I did… I would say that she found fault in the final outcome when it came to something she wanted… i.e. if something didn't go her way; it would be my fault regardless of whether or not it was at all in my power to have done anything differently.

Come to think about it, it was more like she'd sometimes get an idealized version in her mind of me where, if I was at all good at something, she'd start to assume that I was super good at it and hence start demanding that I fix all her problems in that area. When I'd try to explain that I wasn't able to do it, instead of understanding that I wasn't the expert she though, she'd get angry and assume I wasn't doing it because of whatever reason ("underlying hostility" and a desire to "reject her" no doubt!) and not because I couldn't actually do it (as I "claimed".

So I guess maybe that's one subconscious motivation to not allow myself to get good at stuff…

Close to a year ago I was going through a phase where I'd start drawing illustrations of different kinds at work. My coworkers and managers liked them so much that they started making free "commissions" and I started having to make several on them on demand and I started feeling anxious about disappointing people… shortly after, I lost all motivation to keep that hobby up. (I guess this is yet another area in which learning about boundaries would be a good thing…)

I also have a "golden child" brother who won't grow up, and our uBPDmom still does his laundry :P He is 35, has never established a relationship, and is uNPD. Many in the family hope he will meet a woman who will make an impact on him, like your brother's wife did with your brother. How does your mother treat your brother's wife?

I have career-issues too and low self-esteem. In my next meeting with my T, we are going to discuss my long-term goals. Due to PTSD, I have problems visualizing my future. Have you discussed your career problems with your T?

I hope your brother manages to break out of that cycle whether it be via someone else or not…

I essentially only "got out" because my mother passed away at an early age (67 for her and 27 for me). I didn't actually think I'd be able to survive without her and apparently nobody else around me did either… but it's been over a year now and "so far so good" as they say… but I'd feel a lot more secure if I were capable of being flexible…

To answer your question btw, my mother didn't treat my brothers' wife badly… it should be noted thought that my brother and his wife live on the other side of the world… My mom didn’t like her too much though and often assumed that she (my sister in law) was on the brink of leaving my brother (she'd often make these kinds of deductions without realizing they were based on wishful thinking). Before her, my mother hated every female that came near my brother but I made an effort, in this ones' case, to point out to my mother that I believed she was a good influence on my brother. I think that may have made a bit of a difference, but I'm not sure.

I also hope you manage to get over the PTSD related career issues too… With the BPD being what it is, I don't so much have a problem visualizing the future per se but rather a hard time forming a visual that'll stay put long enough for me to get there… among other things… And the thing is that this fear of change thingy (or of doing anything) won't even let me get started 90% of the time… And yeah btw, I talk to my T about this issue all the time and have been doing so for years and years now… she doesn’t really know what to tell me. Granted, she's a believer in behaviorism so she keeps trying to get me to make active change… but right now that's out of the question not just because of my phobia of change but also because the job market, especially in my area, simply won't allow it…