"Reality Distortion Field " - II

[Hurt llama]

"Reality distortion field (RDF) is a term coined by Bud Tribble at Apple Computer in 1981, to describe company co-founder Steve Jobs' charisma and its effects on the developers working on the Macintosh project.[1] Tribble said that the term came from Star Trek.[1] Later the term has also been used to refer to perceptions of his keynote speeches (or "Stevenotes" by observers and devoted users of Apple computers and products. ~ Andy Hertzfeld, (February 1981). "Reality Distortion Field". Folklore.org."

Starting a new thread that is a continuation of  Reality Distortion Field - I

[Hurt llama]

Hurt llama i wanted to say that everything i'm saying here, to you or anybody else, i'm really also saying this to myself. each of our situations are different and i want you to know that i recognize that.

the only reason any of this hurts so much is because these people were truly amazing in many ways in our lives. i never mean to discredit this. what i am working towards is redirecting my energies toward finding those same amazing qualities elsewhere.

and, dammit, we should hurt. this is what good people do 

In all of my on, off and always in touch with each other, I have never reached this point now.

It's obviously a step in the grieving process but it's been up and down and around in such insidious ways that this 'newer' realization and perception has left me just completely drained and exhausted.

There are no tears... . Nothing. I found a shirt she left here last night... . she left the same shirt here 6 weeks ago... . when I found it then, I took a picture and sent it to her and washed it.

This time, I ripped it in half and threw it in the garbage and thought of sending her a picture. but of course I am (hopefully) past that sort of drama... .   and boy do I have stories... .   can't do that stuff anymore.

I have tentative plans that I can't imagine how I will force myself to do but I somehow will... . This awesome super cool woman I just met invited me out with one of her friends (female). I have a feeling it's a set up of sorts... .   and boy do I not have the mojo for that right now... . but once I get out and moving, I can fake it with the best of them.

Fake it till you make it.

zzz

[fakename]

Andrew,

You're a cool guy and you've been there for me when I needed it so I hope you don't take this the wrong way but jut asking a sort of awl examination question which is one of the many I asked myself. And your last post just made me question it,

But you ever feel like a pretty girl gives you a certain confidence that you need others to see in you?

Not sure I'm aski. That right. But I guess do you feel like people will judge or value you better based on your 'performance' with the opposite sex.

Is there anything you do to overcompensate for the fact that you might feel pathetic because of your relationship with your ex?

Just some stupid questions that I pondered over. You don't have to answer them to me.

[Louise7777]

LOL SA! I cant help laughing abut the "same circus different clowns".  

Although in my case must be same clown differrent circus!  

I understand you feel so tired about the whole situation and thats good, you passed to another level now. I think Im also there. I dont care about BPD/ HPD/ NCP/ PA or whatever... .   They are a bunch of selfish self-centered people and I want to run. Period.

Good luck to u.  

[Hurt llama]

LOL SA! I cant help laughing abut the "same circus different clowns".  

Although in my case must be same clown differrent circus!  

I understand you feel so tired about the whole situation and thats good, you passed to another level now. I think Im also there. I dont care about BPD/ HPD/ NCP/ PA or whatever... .   They are a bunch of selfish self-centered people and I want to run. Period.

Good luck to u.  

haha... .   I changed it from same clown different circus in my first time posting it in the old thread... . I get confused but not sure it matters... .   

[Hurt llama]

Andrew,

You're a cool guy and you've been there for me when I needed it so I hope you don't take this the wrong way but jut asking a sort of awl examination question which is one of the many I asked myself. And your last post just made me question it,

But you ever feel like a pretty girl gives you a certain confidence that you need others to see in you?

Not sure I'm aski. That right. But I guess do you feel like people will judge or value you better based on your 'performance' with the opposite sex.

Is there anything you do to overcompensate for the fact that you might feel pathetic because of your relationship with your ex?

Just some stupid questions that I pondered over. You don't have to answer them to me.

Good question and I think I remember reading a post where you wondered it before.

Yes, to an extent it's fun and great to be with pretty girls. I usually say if they are pretty and they are rich, it's strike one and two. But that's another story... .

Don't get caught up in how their looks mattered so much as it matters less than we think. I met an absoute knockout almost two years ago... . First date... . incredible connection and she slept over that night. I still do see her but she's just boring... . Sex with her as far as her skills as a lover far exceeded my exBPD... . This girl is better looking, younger, hotter and better in bed... . She is also cool and is really into me.

But it's just not a match.

Point is that it's easy to get into this fantasy that it's all about looks and how you feel being out with an attractive girl. That's undeniable but, take this from my experience, looks only take it so far and less than you might think.

WHen I am feeling low, I tend to feel that my ex and the way I felt with her will never be replaced... .

Maybe I will feel that way again,, and especially after a bad date, I always miss my fantasy BPD ex... .   as I am sure she misses me (right? right? )

[Hurt llama]

Andrew,

You're a cool guy and you've been there for me when I needed it so I hope you don't take this the wrong way but jut asking a sort of awl examination question which is one of the many I asked myself. And your last post just made me question it,

But you ever feel like a pretty girl gives you a certain confidence that you need others to see in you?

Not sure I'm aski. That right. But I guess do you feel like people will judge or value you better based on your 'performance' with the opposite sex.

Is there anything you do to overcompensate for the fact that you might feel pathetic because of your relationship with your ex?

Just some stupid questions that I pondered over. You don't have to answer them to me.

Read the post again... .   and I know I am older than you... . I have two daughter's one recently graduated college and the other just started.

It's gotten easier for me as I get older. I have a reputation of sorts as having many gf's and I really have a good time making fun of myself and a bit of a (somewhat) healthier Charlie Sheen... .

I've been with a lot of sexy women... . More than I deserve and haven't even paid for most of them.

I'm so battle weary and jaded, maybe it's seen as confidence that helps me as I often just couldn't care less.

See? there is an upside to depression!

[goldylamont]

But you ever feel like a pretty girl gives you a certain confidence that you need others to see in you?

Not sure I'm aski. That right. But I guess do you feel like people will judge or value you better based on your 'performance' with the opposite sex.

Is there anything you do to overcompensate for the fact that you might feel pathetic because of your relationship with your ex?

Just some stupid questions that I pondered over. You don't have to answer them to me.

no, not stupid questions. you just put into words questions i've been asking myself a lot. how much value i put in other people's judgement of my 'performance' with the opposite sex. i feel in some ways i buy into this, and something i've ruminated over. i think i'm trying to find my way through the grey area of how much negativity this has on me, and balance that with how much also it just is and it's ok as long as i'm aware and keep it in check. i had started another thread fakename called "it was her looks, that's about it". link below if interested. this, of course is a bit tongue in cheek i'm not that shallow, but still have to take a hard look and keep it real with me 

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=196199.msg12213793#msg12213793

[fakename]

i think i'm at a point where i'm not as picky looks-wise... .   i would really just want a girl i can have fun with and is mentally healthy.

i think i used to be so insecure that i would over-rely on how pretty the girl i was with was... .   like i needed the girl to have something special that i felt like would make others jealous or have other guys think that made me more of a man.

and i think that would be the foundation of my draw towards who i chose to go out with.  

for instance, there was a girl i dated who was the beauty contest winner of her state... .   and thats how i identified her to others (i think that is revealing in itself of my insecurity)... .   and i used that as the reason why i should like and date the girl rather than look at her personality and her motives, etc.  

the same thing went with my ex. which i am learning now.  the main reason i got involved with her was cause of her looks and the sex, and i just created the vision of what the rest of her was on my own... .   i'm thinking that's pretty sick in itself and wondering if it's a BPD trait.

there's also an issue of how i would feel like girls were obligated to be physical with me if i was seeing them.  i dont know where that comes from, and i feel like i still possess it and would have to control it... .   or maybe its just a matter of the type of girls i'm selected and my subconscious purpose for them?

i dont get involved with many girls any more (haven't thought much of it since feb 4th)... .   simply because if i know that things wouldnt last with them, i dont want to lead them on and hurt them... . (thats one thing i got from my ex - i dont want to cause anyone similar pain or the pain of being used cause i know how it feels)  

i dont know. just thinking out loud... .  

[fakename]

@goldylamont,

thanks for the link to your thread... .   i'll check it out later for sure... .   (funny how in the beginning i would spend so much time on these boards and never want to leave, but now i pace myself - sometimes feel like if i spend another minute on here i'll overdose you know?  besides, its good that i'm getting back to having somewhat of a life)

[Hurt llama]

i think i'm at a point where i'm not as picky looks-wise... .   i would really just want a girl i can have fun with and is mentally healthy.

i think i used to be so insecure that i would over-rely on how pretty the girl i was with was... .   like i needed the girl to have something special that i felt like would make others jealous or have other guys think that made me more of a man.

and i think that would be the foundation of my draw towards who i chose to go out with.  

for instance, there was a girl i dated who was the beauty contest winner of her state... .   and thats how i identified her to others (i think that is revealing in itself of my insecurity)... .   and i used that as the reason why i should like and date the girl rather than look at her personality and her motives, etc.  

the same thing went with my ex. which i am learning now.  the main reason i got involved with her was cause of her looks and the sex, and i just created the vision of what the rest of her was on my own... .   i'm thinking that's pretty sick in itself and wondering if it's a BPD trait.

there's also an issue of how i would feel like girls were obligated to be physical with me if i was seeing them.  i dont know where that comes from, and i feel like i still possess it and would have to control it... .   or maybe its just a matter of the type of girls i'm selected and my subconscious purpose for them?

i dont get involved with many girls any more (haven't thought much of it since feb 4th)... .   simply because if i know that things wouldnt last with them, i dont want to lead them on and hurt them... . (thats one thing i got from my ex - i dont want to cause anyone similar pain or the pain of being used cause i know how it feels)  

i dont know. just thinking out loud... .  

Almost all of us choose partners based on looks and attraction which is a combination of many things. But boy have I learned, and I say it as a joke 'good looking... .   strike one, but as in all humor it's got seeds of truth or seeds of anger maybe.

As a result of my relationship with exBPD and the next one after who was much younger and absolutely off the chart hot, that I burned that dream down hard.

I need attraction but extreme good looks really is at this point a red flag... .   I know that's insane... . and I wish I didn't feel that way.

WHen I am ready and IF I am ready again, and it feels like I might never be (really), then I would be happy with attraction and a decent looking partner... . not such a player as my exBPD can be simply out of literally being groomed and raised to be (as her identical twin said to me), "Arm candy"... .    

[Wooddragon]

Choice of language is an interesting thing. I'm curious about why you guys - at least one of whom must be my age or older - refer to the women that you might like to date as "pretty girls". Are they older than 16 and if so, why do you infantilise them that way? (sorry if this sounds offensive but just curious)?

[fakename]

i'm 30.

interesting question,

i say girls cause it just sounds better than woman. its kinda an ugly or elongated word... .   doesnt have anything to do with how i treat them... .  

[goldylamont]

so happy you posted Wooddragon this is something good to think about. i actually went through my other post of mine i linked to and did a ctrl-F "find" of the word girl and also "woman". whew! i'm lucky, i used them about the same but yeah using the word "girl" is very common, perhaps too much so. i think some of it is just out of habit/slang/language that we tend to say 'girl' instead of 'woman'. but, also i agree that this is something men need to stay aware of... .   do a search on this page and i don't think the word "woman" comes up maybe once or twice. for myself, well, i don't think i'm 'typical' as far as what i like? just, talking with women i've been in r/s with or dated for a while they tell me all kinds of things about men needing egos stroked or being put-off by intelligence and the like. this honestly surprised me, it's hard for me to see i suppose since i male. but i can tell from the media and such a lot of what many men desire. it's never been my bag, a mate that is docile or 'girly'... .   but i do like physical attractiveness, so when i meet someone who i feel is really gorgeous and *not* the stereotypical pinup mentality that's what i go gaga for i think. strong women are really attractive to me. my current gf is training to be a cop... .   she kept it a secret for a while as she was embarrassed, i'm so proud of her she'll be the hottest cop, but not just that she's really smart i tell her she's fbi material

[Louise7777]

Wooddragon, great question.

You guys mentioned "good looks, pretty girls" etc. Im sure not all BPDs are beautiful and not all ugly are non-BPDs. I believe you mean "bubbly personalities", not to do with beauty. I think you are attracted to some vibrant type of women but later you cant deal with the turmoil.

Did I hit the target or Im completelly mistaken? 

[Hurt llama]

Wooddragon, great question.

You guys mentioned "good looks, pretty girls" etc. Im sure not all BPDs are beautiful and not all ugly are non-BPDs. I believe you mean "bubbly personalities", not to do with beauty. I think you are attracted to some vibrant type of women but later you cant deal with the turmoil.

Did I hit the target or Im completelly mistaken?  

Good luck referring to my ex as a 'girl'. .

My exBPD was very good looking but it was much more than that... .   Certainly the feeling we each had together out in public was intoxicating... . she talked about it constantly and she meant it... . how well we 'fit', how safe she felt walking in the street with me and I enjoyed her good looks, how she carried herself and how she interacted with the world when I was around her. She was almost always respectful and a really good partner that way. She was positively attracted me me and equally addicted. She knew she would never (allow) herself to ever be as open as she was with me. WHen I ended the engagement, it was a true devastating crushing blow to her (that she really wanted I believe on some level).

I do know one thing... .   I am immune from the next BPD or NPD or any other nutball I meet... .   I would rather be alone forever than be with another one. I have two kids and a great life and yeah I am trying to accept this life for what it is and find happiness without a partner... .   and I have done that on and off for a long time... .

Need to find my mojo again... . and the secret is in my work and in grieving the end of the dream. Because it was a dream, as in make believe... . Even with all the accouterments.There is danger in romanticizing the dysfunctional past.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtHshBWFRyg

[Clearmind]

I do know one thing... .   I am immune from the next BPD or NPD or any other nutball I meet... .  

What makes you immune HL?

Hope you don’t mind my bluntness however, this thread speaks more about her than it does you. If you wish to be “immune” it requires some really deep delving as to why you were attracted to person who was “in public was intoxicating”, “how she carried herself”, “how she interacted with the world when I was around her” and “positively attracted me and equally addicted”.

How would go about developing a relationship now that you are immune? What does healthy mean to you? What characteristics in a girl do you seek now?

Same circus, different clowns.

Interesting analogy for a person who once had a front row VIP seat to the very same circus!

[Hurt llama]

I do know one thing... .   I am immune from the next BPD or NPD or any other nutball I meet... .  

What makes you immune HL?

Hope you don’t mind my bluntness however, this thread speaks more about her than it does you. If you wish to be “immune” it requires some really deep delving as to why you were attracted to person who was “in public was intoxicating”, “how she carried herself”, “how she interacted with the world when I was around her” and “positively attracted me and equally addicted”.

How would go about developing a relationship now that you are immune? What does healthy mean to you? What characteristics in a girl do you seek now?

I don't mind the direct question and can answer it confidently. I'm not sure if you know the timeline in my relationship with my ex BPD but if it were drawn out and there were lines indicating the intensity of my reactions, of pain and pull, it would trend steadily and surely in a very down way.

It's been 3.5 years since I ended the engagement. Yes there has been mostly continued contact via text, etc during that time. But I have dated quite a bit, had a couple of relationships. One being a continuation of sorts of my exBPD. But the others I have done well in ending them without the drama or pull I had/have with my ex.

I've also survived a divorce in a relationship that was of course a very difficult experience with two young children. My ex wife is a close friend. That's a huge statement about me more than her that it was important for me on a few levels to end that way if possible and she is a very difficult woman. Very.

I am careful not to be over confident in speaking about my ex and I will be very clear and depressingly blunt for all of my thousands of words about her and I am getting stronger by the hour, if she reached for me (she usually doesn't anymore), I would be vulnerable to go back for the final encounter.

Maybe by me saying that I have given myself an out and better able to face the first real time I have definitively broke it off and stopped reaching out to her. There is the most profound shift in all of this going on for the first time ever. I may slip, it's not impossible but I will not fall for that is impossible. I speak from experience and do know myself.

As far as being certain I won't fall for another BPD type... . , zero chance on that one.

I am extremely sensitive and now well armed... . I felt extreme discomfort with my ex before we met... . Off the chart screaming at me red flags... . But for many reasons due to the time in my life and other circumstances I got roped in. It was a once in a lifetime event. The Perfect Storm.

I am a cautious very strategic thinker. I made mistakes with my ex BPD partner. She got the free pass. It was the only one there is.

I've been single for 10 years. It's not going to be easy and I am accepting that finding a partner really may not happen again. There are endless choices but your questions are good ones.

Firstly, there is no developing a relationship in which  would be immune to a BPD parter. I just am. I have zero tolerance and wouldn't give a BPD woman half a chance... .   "Go ahead make my day comes to mind."

What does healthy mean to me? That's easy. Healthy is loving, healthy is nurturing, healthy is safe, healthy means sacrifice sometimes. I love being in love and maybe I need to fully accept I might never be again before I can.

I have two children who I am very close with... . Best in the world feeling... . I have lots of friends and close family and more than anything I have endless interests to keep me busy.

It will take a very rare combination of events and personality for me to do it again.

Lastly, I clearly know, that I am attracted to the 'type' my ex is... . Not BPD per se as that's just too over the top... . But I am attracted to intensity... .   the fine line is finding the balance of a strong interesting woman and the woman who is just plain dangerous.

Thanks for asking such pointed questions. Helps me a lot.

[goldylamont]

Wooddragon, great question.

You guys mentioned "good looks, pretty girls" etc. Im sure not all BPDs are beautiful and not all ugly are non-BPDs. I believe you mean "bubbly personalities", not to do with beauty. I think you are attracted to some vibrant type of women but later you cant deal with the turmoil.

Did I hit the target or Im completelly mistaken? 

kind of mistaken i believe in my case i think? but i'm really glad to have a woman's input. i don't think i've ever had a gf remotely 'bubbly' not hating on that i'm sure there's lovely and great bubbly women, but no. my first ex founded a non profit in her twenties, she's married now and is an executive and also an author (definitely in the *woman* category). my exBPDgf... .   well, she was just really really good looking, that's all i can say. i know that this comes in many flavors for different people so i'd just say it like this--no makeup, she looked good with nothing on, better even than with makeup. natural. womanly curves (she worried she was "fat", but who doesn't). i'd say at least every couple of months, strangers in the street would stop us and say "wow you two are a great looking couple". my bosses, colleagues, business contacts, anyone who met her would always refer to how lovely she was. i say 'lovely' because she has a natural warmth, she was very compassionate, dedicated a lot of time to volunteer work, loved reading intellectual novels, loved plants and animals. she was more at home in a garden with dirt in her toes than in a dress, but good lord when she put on a dress... .   not just men wanted her, women loved her and would always ask about her, telling me to bring her along to outings and such. so it wasn't just me, i felt and heard these things from people around me. of course, this wasn't the whole story. and, i'm saying these things so you could see that in many ways her beauty came as much from her warmth and down-to-earthness as from her looks. but, alas, in relationships she was the devil spawned. as with many high functioning BPD's as i've heard, i'd look like the crazy one if i told most people who met her that there was an issue with her. and a couple women friends of mine have commented that they feel like in some ways perhaps i helped 'balance' or brought out her good qualities. there was a lot of twisted nastyness in our r/s, but most of the worst has happened after we split, the stories i hear. the tale is told in what i know of how she ends r/s, guys throwing chairs through windows, degrading text messages from broken men, cheating on her (which i highly doubt is true, anymore, since she accused me of the same). it's weird that she even started contacting me again, but then again it's not. i think she just broke up with another guy, and i was prolly one of the few who lasted through all her bs without flying off the handle so much that she'd never want to talk again. and, i'm Waaaay off topic! hah, all of this is to say that i wouldn't have been in a 4yr r/s with this person b/c they were bubbly or simple-minded, even if they were hot. that's just not me.

HL i've read many of your posts and i understand, i feel you are cycling through seeing her as bad (b/c it's true) and also good (b/c it's true). i think over time and given space these two truths tend to meld together into one acceptance. the mind needs its food for thought, so the mind wanders to both extremes trying to make sense of it all. i do the same, i think it's normal, healthy, and will become less powerful over time.

[Louise7777]

Hi Hurt llama and Goldylamont!

All human relations are complicated, some less, few A LOT more. We all had (and have) our struggles. I understand your point on looks and also on other qualities, as you Goldylamont, pointed.

Of course I dont know any of you at all, so I just give my opinion based on what I read. And I notice you guys focus a lot on what others see while you were with your women (gfs, wives, etc). I dont want to sound rude, but seems to me you were "parading" for others to envy you. It looks like they were "trophy wives".

I wonder why getting others attention seemed so important to u... .  

[Hurt llama]

Hi Hurt llama and Goldylamont!

All human relations are complicated, some less, few A LOT more. We all had (and have) our struggles. I understand your point on looks and also on other qualities, as you Goldylamont, pointed.

Of course I dont know any of you at all, so I just give my opinion based on what I read. And I notice you guys focus a lot on what others see while you were with your women (gfs, wives, etc). I dont want to sound rude, but seems to me you were "parading" for others to envy you. It looks like they were "trophy wives".

I wonder why getting others attention seemed so important to u... .  

Um, if you read what I said fully, I think I am saying similar things.

I said in one of the above posts ":)on't get caught up in how their looks mattered so much as it matters less than we think."

I write a lot here and some of it is said tongue in cheek and all. But the issue of a trophy wife or not and consciousness of getting attention in public with my date or partner is so not what I am about or dealing with. What I do enjoy and miss is being in society AS a couple with (a good partner) and feeling the connection and experience of being alive not as a single. The feeling of being complete and the difference things together as compared as usually being alone is something that I miss and felt when I was with my ex a few weeks ago.

I've been functioning as a single for a long time and theres's much great to that too... .

[Hurt llama]

HL i've read many of your posts and i understand, i feel you are cycling through seeing her as bad (b/c it's true) and also good (b/c it's true). i think over time and given space these two truths tend to meld together into one acceptance. the mind needs its food for thought, so the mind wanders to both extremes trying to make sense of it all. i do the same, i think it's normal, healthy, and will become less powerful over time.[/quote]
Yes absolutely... . It's moving fast too. The goal in ending most significant relationships is to not have feelings that are high or low and ultimately is about acceptance of the experience and the other mattering much less in your day to day thoughts.

I think it's gonna take more than 3 days of no contact... . but it's the most in 6 years and is a start!

The board and sharing has helped more in this process than anything else I've tried.

[whereisthezen]

Just a thought on the thread... .  

". I dont want to sound rude, but seems to me you were "parading" for others to envy you. It looks like they were "trophy wives". "

I think it may be a little different. A lot of us are kind, affectionate, good hearted, intimate, the type that attracts and is attracted to those that like to go out, be together, do things, be affectionate in public, it may seem like "parading" but its more enjoyment in ourselves, surroundings and with a partner adds to all the fun/attraction.

We're all looking for balance and to try not to be attracted to those at/in an unhealthy state of BPD mirroring and overly attentive. If we keep trying and learning we'll find the right balanced match, because that's what most of us are seeking to do now or in the next relationship.

[Wooddragon]

Just a thought on the thread... .  

". I dont want to sound rude, but seems to me you were "parading" for others to envy you. It looks like they were "trophy wives". "

I think it may be a little different. A lot of us are kind, affectionate, good hearted, intimate, the type that attracts and is attracted to those that like to go out, be together, do things, be affectionate in public, it may seem like "parading" but its more enjoyment in ourselves, surroundings and with a partner adds to all the fun/attraction.

We're all looking for balance and to try not to be attracted to those at/in an unhealthy state of BPD mirroring and overly attentive. If we keep trying and learning we'll find the right balanced match, because that's what most of us are seeking to do now or in the next relationship.

I'm thinking that this  is the equivalent of a "like" button?

I gave some more thought to what I said up thread. I guess the male equivalent to a pretty girl is a cute boy. I might really like to have a cute boy (and have in the past) but I wouldn't expect him to be a mature, stable and emotionally balanced man! That's what I'm looking for in a relationship.

Perhaps if I had been more alert to immature undercooked behaviour I might have woken up to the issues with my ex much earlier... .

[Louise7777]

Hey again!

Well, I knew my words would be causing some comotion.

Whereisthezen, parading in front of people doesnt mean that you are not kind, affectionate and so on... .  You can be all that and still be willing to be the center of attention. From what people said, I understood that the effect on others was more important than the relationship in itself. That was my impression, doesnt mean Im right, but still its what it looks like to me. And its not necessarily wrong.

[Wooddragon]

I have had the experience of enjoying the reaction of others back in the day. My partner before the BPDex - that relationship lasted 11 years - was very attractive & we would attract comments from strangers about how happy we looked together etc. I can't say that I didn't enjoy that affirmation even realising that it was probably unsound and narcissistic. I doubt I could have a relationship with someone I wasn't attracted to! But I think the qualities that would make someone attractive to me have probably evolved over time. I still enjoy attracting attention based on my own appearance although these days I hope it also has to do with radiating some kind of inner quality - not just what's externally visible. I don't think it's totally fair to be too harsh on the guys for feeling this way - aren't they "hard wired" to seek young attractive partners & to enjoy the status that this gives them amongst other men? My BPDex was attractive to me but not objectively "hot". He used to enjoy "parading" me around (which probably reflects a degree of immaturity on his part) and I also didn't really mind that even tho I guess it makes me sound really shallow and vain? 

[Surrender]

Hey again!

Well, I knew my words would be causing some comotion.

Whereisthezen, parading in front of people doesnt mean that you are not kind, affectionate and so on... .  You can be all that and still be willing to be the center of attention. From what people said, I understood that the effect on others was more important than the relationship in itself. That was my impression, doesnt mean Im right, but still its what it looks like to me. And its not necessarily wrong.

I believe that the world we live in today with so much technology that is titillating on a very base level replacing human contact connection with instant gratification, media images, disposable wares have as a result created a culture of narcissists. There is very little balance anymore and what balance there is left it appears we have to struggle for. From my anthropological background into the cultures of society I have most definitely noticed this trait amongst people especially in the Western Cultures. Couple this with a dysfunctional upbringing and the environmental influence that has also aided in raising us with a detachment from the natural true world, leads to a very narcissistic world. We are a culture that has replaced good moral values in connecting and helping one another with cheap technology that has trained us to get what we want instantly without the commitment of working for it. In some ways we are the result of a bankrupted world in many many ways and narcissism is a symptom thereof.

Media shoves down our throats the very concept you are referring to and has been one of the most significant forces in destroying our moral fiber in a balance towards the heart and not the 'ego'.  

[Louise7777]

CryingWings, I couldnt agree more. Its "La société du spectacle" everywhere!

[Hurt llama]

Hi Hurt llama and Goldylamont!

All human relations are complicated, some less, few A LOT more. We all had (and have) our struggles. I understand your point on looks and also on other qualities, as you Goldylamont, pointed.

Of course I dont know any of you at all, so I just give my opinion based on what I read. And I notice you guys focus a lot on what others see while you were with your women (gfs, wives, etc). I dont want to sound rude, but seems to me you were "parading" for others to envy you. It looks like they were "trophy wives".

I wonder why getting others attention seemed so important to u... .  

Christina, I'm curious where you are coming from in regards to posts I have made that you would as this question? "I wonder why getting others attention seemed so important to u... .  "

If you read my posts carefully I address the issue of looks and how it matter less than we think. So not sure specifically where you are coming from to me on this?

You did post after this that you expected to get a reaction with this post and I do think your last sentence is framed as sort of asking a question but not really.

Not trying to be defensive but I am curious if this discussion or your posting reactions about 'looks' is somehow an issue you might be having or have had in your experience?

Just confused really as I am not defensive, and go out of my way to be open, not paint myself as anything but really sharing my feelings and experiences in pretty much real time.

Thanks for the post.

[Hurt llama]

I created the first thread Reality Distortion Field to chronicle and journalize my experiences and story.

It's day 3 or 4 with no contact. Each day is a new record. Today I received two emails from my ex that were simply links to a subject of interest for me.

To me that's dangling the bait and expecting a reaction and I almost did respond as the links were great and appreciated and thoughtful.

But I didn't.

What I do each day (and less today as I had a great productive day and just got home), is 'frame' her reaching out against certain clear facts, Not even about her being 'right' or 'wrong' anymore... .  as in reality... .  no, it's not black or white.

WHen she was here two weeks ago... . I made the FIRST 'official' declaration that I was trying again in the role of boyfriend and girlfriend. To me this was a serious matter and clearly foolish and had zero chance of working as I lack the ability to use the tools I started acquiring in Staying. They actually were working... .  fast and noticeably but it's just not possible for me to simply trust her, even if she is trustworthy in the sense she is not going to cheat on me... .  But that wasn't it... . it's the lack of any semblance of understanding or acknowledgment of even why I was not happy in how she sprung the news she is attending a business show with an ex lover... .  and she later admitted she was nervous and defensive to how I might react.

Well baby, that's just not enough. And it shouldn't be.

And I play that and other similar and much worse things she has demonstrated again, again and again to me.

I have allowed myself, actually almost factored in a 'slip'... .  another 'fall' off the wagon... .  Another bender... .  

I'm lucky she isn't trying so hard.

Each day I get stronger... .  I hope.

I have no desire to go out on any dates right now. I am 100% focused on my art, which is my work and has not been given the respect and time it needs.

The 'trick' or secret, is to just stay busy and not think of the future and imagine it alone and without that connection, even if in reality, it was just not what a loving healthy relationship is comprised of.

I knew better my whole life and didn't marry this woman... .  and underestimated the effect it had on my psyche and just about all other parts of my life.

And in a way... .  I can argue a case that somehow in someway this was exactly what I needed.

or maybe we can always justify our weakness and cowardice by rationalizing it this way.

All I know is as I told my first wife as she would sometimes relentlessly pound away at something that was over with... .  I'd say, "I'm sorry but my time machine is broken and I can't go back in time"

Apparently, it's still broken.