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How to keep "his stuff" in his corner?
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Topic: How to keep "his stuff" in his corner? (Read 1357 times)
daylily
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Relationship status: Married - 7 years; Relationship - total of 13 years
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How to keep "his stuff" in his corner?
«
on:
April 25, 2013, 10:46:09 AM »
This morning when I got to work, the valet parking my car asked me "how are you?" and I said, "ok." And I realized that's what I say every day when someone asks me that question. Not "good," not "awesome," just "ok." Same thing when someone asks "how was your weekend?" I respond "It was ok." I thought I was doing better at not letting my H's "stuff" affect me, but I realize that I'm not.
I know that I need to focus on myself. I know I need to radically accept that he is who he is and separate out "his stuff" from "my stuff." I need to know in my heart that what he's saying about me isn't true. I know I need to do these things, but how? I (like many others here, I'd suspect) am the type of person by nature who is sensitive to the opinions of others. I am somewhat of a perfectionist, so I'm prone to taking criticism to heart. I care about what people think of me (as long as what they're thinking isn't way out in left field), and especially what my husband thinks of me. We share children together. We are with each other every day.
I know what my goals are, but I am finding that instead of radically accepting him and achieving emotional well being, I'm detaching from him emotionally while still letting him get to me because at some level I'm buying into what he's saying about me. How do I get where I want to be? Those of you who have achieved this, if you can share your first steps, that would be great. Please help!
Daylily
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lizzie458
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Relationship status: ex spouse
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Re: How to keep "his stuff" in his corner?
«
Reply #1 on:
April 25, 2013, 11:28:46 AM »
My first step was to start plugging into the healthy people around me! Do you have a church home group, other friends, willing to go to co-dependents anonymous or al-anon where people "get" living in a situation like yours? Noone can ever really fully understand what you're going through, but I find that CDA/Al Anon comes pretty close. They deal with very similar issues of codependency, unreasonable partners, control issues, and questioning your own sanity. Plug into this community while you're at it!
I think the key is to deepen the
healthy
relationships in your life. I try to balance my interactions with them so that I'm not always talking about my pwBPD, but I'm also not ignoring any strong emotions that come up.
It's also been important for me personally to not ask for advice, and to make that clear or change the topic of convo if someone starts to give it. Sometimes I vent a little, but well-intentioned friends who try to give advice usually have no clue about the tangle of hornets' nests that is my R/S. It's kind of like they're giving advice on a Pre-K level when I'm dealing with PhD level issues, and I tend to get defensive. 12 step friends tend to be a bit better because advice isn't part of the 12 step plan - my friends share their experience, strength, and hope and I can derive from it what I want, but they don't give advice. I find that very helpful and gives me great peace. This forum is very helpful and I
do
ask for advice here, because I think we are all in much more similar boats than the rest of my friends.
I do have to remind myself to stop talking about him - that my world does NOT revolve around him! I try to make a list of things I'm grateful for every morning and focus on things that I'm excited or passionate about. That, in conjunction with conversation with good friends, helps raise my emotional baseline to a more positive level.
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Resilience is accepting your new reality, even if it's less good than the one you had before. You can fight it, you can do nothing but scream about what you've lost, or you can accept that and try to put together something that's good.
― Elizabeth Edwards
Auspicious
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Re: How to keep "his stuff" in his corner?
«
Reply #2 on:
April 25, 2013, 11:40:26 AM »
At lot of us have seen therapists for ourselves, to help navigate this. It can help!
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arabella
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Re: How to keep "his stuff" in his corner?
«
Reply #3 on:
April 25, 2013, 02:38:25 PM »
Quote from: lizzie458 on April 25, 2013, 11:28:46 AM
... . co-dependents anonymous or al-anon where people "get" living in a situation like yours? Noone can ever really fully understand what you're going through, but I find that CDA/Al Anon comes pretty close. They deal with very similar issues of codependency, unreasonable partners, control issues, and questioning your own sanity.
I'm so far from being mentally healthy that I probably shouldn't be giving anyone advice - but you did ask so... .
I just found a CoDA group near me and took the plunge. Omg. I had no idea that so much of this stuff was a co-dependency issue. The perfectionism, looking to others for validation or approval, being overly sensitive to criticism, low self-esteem, etc. I think I thought all of these things were just my personality or that co-dependency was r/s specific. Nope. Apparently we can change all this. So that's what I'm working on - kicking my brain into a new gear!
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daylily
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Re: How to keep "his stuff" in his corner?
«
Reply #4 on:
April 25, 2013, 04:51:07 PM »
Thanks Lizzie, Auspicious and arabella! I actually do have a great support group of family and friends, and without them and this site, I would for sure be constantly in a state of being gaslit by my H. I saw a therapist for awhile and found that it did help me to feel more empowered, but at the same time, I felt it made me more disconnected from my H because the empowerment made me angry at him. That's not to say I wouldn't try it again.
It's hard to dismiss his criticisms as "his stuff" when they have that grain of truth to them. I basically have someone beside me all the time watching to see if I screw up, and if I do, he makes sure I feel really bad about it. I'm a working mother in a high stress job. I also pay all of our bills, clean the house, do the laundry, go to the store, take my son to school, arrange for childcare when needed, do whatever needs to be done for events for our children (my son's school events, birthday parties, communicating with teachers, etc.) Things fall through the cracks, because I'm just plain overwhelmed. When I do miss something or do something wrong, H is there to point out how badly I screwed up. When I tell him that he could have helped with X so it wouldn't have fallen through the cracks, he gives me some reason why he couldn't, which usually has to do with something else he thinks I've done wrong that "prevented" him from being the white knight who would have saved the day. He of course notes that he doesn't screw up, and the simple response (I say this in my head only) is that he doesn't screw up because he doesn't do anything, doesn't make any decisions, doesn't put himself out there. So he has nothing he CAN screw up.
I'm just tired and sad. :'(
Daylily
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united for now
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Re: How to keep "his stuff" in his corner?
«
Reply #5 on:
April 25, 2013, 07:34:24 PM »
Guilt. That is what you are feeling and he plays on that deliberately.
Where does the guilt stem from though?
Do you believe you should do it all?
Challenging those negative thoughts that cause the guilt is a great way to recenter yourself.
Believe in herself... .
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Change your perceptions and you change your life. Nothing changes without changes
arabella
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Re: How to keep "his stuff" in his corner?
«
Reply #6 on:
April 25, 2013, 08:43:27 PM »
Quote from: daylily on April 25, 2013, 04:51:07 PM
I saw a therapist for awhile and found that it did help me to feel more empowered, but at the same time, I felt it made me more disconnected from my H because the empowerment made me angry at him. That's not to say I wouldn't try it again.
It's hard to dismiss his criticisms as "his stuff" when they have that grain of truth to them.
Sometimes you have to disconnect a little in order to reconnect in a healthy way. Anger is a natural thing to feel, and it's both okay and understandable that you'd feel that way. A good T should be able to help you move beyond that stage and into something more productive. The anger is still an outwardly focused emotion - good to feel and understand, but also good to let go of and resolve. I hope you do try again, you deserve to feel better and to find an emotional space that works for you.
Do those criticisms really have a grain of truth? Sure he is picking on 'facts' but selectively. I think United for Now makes a good point, I'm going to add that it sounds like you are beating yourself up. Detach from the criticism. Just because he says something, and throws in a few carefully edited facts, doesn't mean he is right. It's hard to teach ourselves not to internalize a lot of this stuff... . This might be another thing a T could help you with.
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Mara2
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Re: How to keep "his stuff" in his corner?
«
Reply #7 on:
April 25, 2013, 10:05:45 PM »
I'm right about where you are at the moment. I am finding some good help at mood gym. It bothered me that when I detatched I felt angry. Mood gym helped me to see how my co-dependancy played into how I feel a lot. You might like to give it a try.
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byasliver
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Re: How to keep "his stuff" in his corner?
«
Reply #8 on:
April 26, 2013, 05:59:19 AM »
daylily, I'm right there with you, too. My T has been my biggest help along with a best friend who shares my commitment values and therefore understands my staying in this r/s. I think I really hit the jackpot with my T: he works with me to find ways of coping with my uBPDh and helping him, points out the positive, and also helps me focus on ME without detaching from my H. It is still so very hard. I just saw my T on Tuesday but by last night, I was struggling with guilt and doubt. I ended up writing an email to H (he's out of town for a job interview) to vent some of what I was feeling. I went to bed feeling like that was probably not the best thing to do but I feel better this morning. I am learning that the three biggest tools in dealing with BPD are validation (for them), boundaries and acceptance (for us). Acceptance doesn't have to mean you forget about your own needs. It means we accept that the only person we can realistically expect to meet our needs is US. Once you begin to accept that, the hurtful things he says won't sting as much. And once those things no longer hold any power for him, he will probably stop saying them. My T told me to look at my husband like a child: I don't expect my kids to be responsible for anything more than I know they can handle. Our pwBPD are very emotionally immature and, yet, because they are adults they feel the weight of adult responsibilities. Looking at it that way, it's understandable that they would struggle and stumble. The more we can accept that, the better off we both are. I expect less from my uBPDh, validate him more, and understand that when he is raging, it's like a child having a tantrum: just anger and frustration coming out the only way a child knows how to deal with them. You wouldn't believe your small child who says, "I hate you and I'm running away!", right? I know that seems funny but, honestly, it helps when you start visualizing it that way.
I'm not saying this works ALL the time. Remember, I said I was really struggling last night and was feeling really guilty about it. This morning I could accept that I'm human and didn't actually do anything wrong. I have every right to express my feelings. It might bite me in the butt later but I will deal with that then. Last night, though... . I was feeling pretty crappy. We all have good and bad days. We're only human
You are doing an AMAZING job with your job and your family. Working plus taking care of your family and a pwBPD is extremely difficult. Start looking around at all the little (and big) things you accomplish well each day. Buy yourself a treat at lunch once in awhile, take the long way home when you have extra time so you can enjoy some solitude, sleep in just a few more minutes... . do those things for yourself that you wish someone else would do in appreciation for all you do: Love yourself! You deserve it!
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lizzie458
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Relationship status: ex spouse
Posts: 136
Re: How to keep "his stuff" in his corner?
«
Reply #9 on:
April 26, 2013, 11:52:44 AM »
This is a great thread! Yes, anger is totally normal. I definitely had to really feel my anger and work through it because I'd been stuffing it (with food, among other things) for so many years, though eventually it was vital that I come to accept my role in the situation (placing expectations on him and refusing to accept who he is) - that's where Al Anon (and I would assume CoDA as well) comes in really handy, owning MY part and my part only.
I feel you on the "doing it all" front, I am in the same situation as you. As someone who is not naturally a planner, organized, and attentive to detail, I have had to learn to be all of that to function well. And that's OK, that's just part of being a grown-up I guess It really helped me mechanically to think of things as if my H isn't there. I suppose the best analogy is that I see him as an elderly family member who I'm taking care of. They may need some assistance (for example, I cook for him and do his dishes/laundry), but not totally dependent like a child. I get into all kinds of trouble when I start to think of him as a child... . even though our communication works best when I remember that's where he IS emotionally... . but I digress... .
I looked into single mom tips and tricks, and have come up with some really great plans and ways to get things done. It can be tough to not resent my H sometimes, and I'm not gonna lie and say I don't walk that line of bitterness, but hey I'm a work in progress. Thanks to my own recovery from codependence, most of the time now I am able to healthily accept the situation and keep things running without feeling like I HAVE to and he's forcing me into it, and I'm a doormat, blah blah blah. I choose to operate more efficiently now because it's easier for me and I have my OWN goals of having a somewhat clean house, cooking mostly whole foods vs. processed, etc. Are there days when I say "screw it" and go pick up Little Caesar's? Absolutely! Are there days when I completely forget to bring diapers to daycare? You bet. Are there times when I let the housework just pile up for a while because I choose sleep over cleaning? Yeppers. And I'm OK with that. If H gets upset, I can empathize and say "it must be really frustrating to not have any clean underwear... . I'll see you tonight, love you!"
You know, I just realized that organization and planning to run the family well has kind of become a hobby for me, something that I've grown in and makes me feel accomplished. Hm! If that ain't healthy, I don't know what is!
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Resilience is accepting your new reality, even if it's less good than the one you had before. You can fight it, you can do nothing but scream about what you've lost, or you can accept that and try to put together something that's good.
― Elizabeth Edwards
arabella
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Posts: 723
Re: How to keep "his stuff" in his corner?
«
Reply #10 on:
April 26, 2013, 05:00:46 PM »
Excerpt
Are there times when I let the housework just pile up for a while because I choose sleep over cleaning? Yeppers. And I'm OK with that. If H gets upset, I can empathize and say "it must be really frustrating to not have any clean underwear... . I'll see you tonight, love you!"
Omg, this made me laugh! And at least half the reason I'm laughing is because I do this too!
I don't feel the need to point out to him that he could, you know, wash his own darned laundry - I just don't let it bother me if he runs out of his favourite shirts or whatever. If it
really
bothered him he'd do it himself. I'm not his slave and if I forget stuff or run out of time, well that's too bad. I do my best and that is more than good enough. Seriously, these guys are LUCKY that we spend so much time and energy trying to help them.
Some great advice here. Rule number one? Be kind to yourself.
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daylily
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Relationship status: Married - 7 years; Relationship - total of 13 years
Posts: 331
Re: How to keep "his stuff" in his corner?
«
Reply #11 on:
May 08, 2013, 06:49:46 PM »
Quote from: united for now on April 25, 2013, 07:34:24 PM
Where does the guilt stem from though?
Do you believe you should do it all?
I am really hard on myself. I've thought long and hard about where the guilt comes from and I'm having trouble coming up with it. I have seen several therapists in my life and the focus of the first one was my "daddy issues." I was close with my father when I was young, then he pulled away from me (either because of a demanding job or the birth of my brother, I haven't figured out which). The therapist's take was that I'm continually trying to regain Daddy's love and approval. I suppose she would say that I'm replaying this pattern out with my H with my wanting to be the stereotypical "perfect wife." Problem is, even if it is possible to be the "perfect wife," it's not possible when you've got as much as I do on my plate workwise and otherwise, and especially when H is uBPD!
Thanks everyone for your encouragement! I think Julia Roberts said in Pretty Woman that the "bad stuff is easier to believe." Why is that so true?
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arabella
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Re: How to keep "his stuff" in his corner?
«
Reply #12 on:
May 08, 2013, 10:12:31 PM »
So I posted this idea on another thread (personal inventory) but I thought maybe you'd find it interesting as well, so here's a copy:
Excerpt
For me I think it's a control issue. I'm aiming for perfection because I want it to exist. All those things that go wrong? All of that bad stuff? If I were better, tried harder, were more perfect - those things wouldn't happen. I can be in control of whether or not bad things happen if I think this way. (A child-like notion for sure. It smacks of seeking security in an unsafe world.) Stuff doesn't just happen to/around me - I made it happen by not being good enough, not being 'perfect' enough. See? AND, at the same time, it's also not my fault because, hey, it's not possible to be perfect! Haha! I WIN! Yet, back in reality, I've just completely lost and I feel like crap.
If I use the above model, then the bad stuff is easier to believe because I
want
to believe it. I want to know which 'flaws' to fix so that I can be closer to perfection (i.e. control). There is no benefit to me to hear the good stuff - I've already mastered those things, I don't need to hear about them. Plus, those good things can't be that great, they must be offset by something pretty bad, because bad stuff is still happening... . And since I am IN CONTROL then the bad stuff in me must be dominating, right?
That's just my current state of mind. You may totally disagree. Just something to ponder!
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beachtalks
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Re: How to keep "his stuff" in his corner?
«
Reply #13 on:
May 09, 2013, 12:38:14 AM »
1.
Going the extra mile
for my BPD-husband. He does have a condition and needs a bit of caretaking. I accept this and therefore don't fight the imbalance of attention anymore, because his needs are different than mine (mine don't involve him so much).
2.
Being patient with the process of disappointing
my BPD-husband. Time outs help this, and when we get our space we both tend to soften towards the other. I am finding a pattern that he usually compromises after some time to think.
3.
Really self-evaluating and always working on becoming a better partner and person in general
. I personally have been reading the bible, and no matter what it is you are doing, if you are working on bettering yourself, you will be
setting a great example
and will earn more respect and trust. Something the bible teaches is that you can be more generous and humble and loving for God's sake. This is the incentive many of us need!
4.
Keeping a strict schedule and sharing my schedule
with him is really helping both of us. I needed to make some boundaries, and sharing my schedule, as well as my feelings about the importance of my schedule, has helped us both.
5. (This one has been mentioned)... .
Not taking advice
from others, because they don't understands the relationship we have.
6.
Earning his trust
. I do this by supplying more information than I used to, even when it hurts him or if it seems unimportant. Information is a lot of what he needed, because many of his trust issues came from not knowing/understanding me fully. I've also given up so many of my old habits that worried him, like drinking, going out, hanging out with single friends, keeping male friends, Facebook, etc- It may seem like a big sacrifice, but I have so much more peace in my life, that the exchange is well worth it. Besides, now I have more time not just for him, but for myself and our kids.
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daylily
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Relationship status: Married - 7 years; Relationship - total of 13 years
Posts: 331
Re: How to keep "his stuff" in his corner?
«
Reply #14 on:
May 09, 2013, 10:25:31 AM »
Quote from: arabella on May 08, 2013, 10:12:31 PM
So I posted this idea on another thread (personal inventory) but I thought maybe you'd find it interesting as well, so here's a copy:
Excerpt
For me I think it's a control issue. I'm aiming for perfection because I want it to exist. All those things that go wrong? All of that bad stuff? If I were better, tried harder, were more perfect - those things wouldn't happen. I can be in control of whether or not bad things happen if I think this way. (A child-like notion for sure. It smacks of seeking security in an unsafe world.) Stuff doesn't just happen to/around me - I made it happen by not being good enough, not being 'perfect' enough. See? AND, at the same time, it's also not my fault because, hey, it's not possible to be perfect! Haha! I WIN! Yet, back in reality, I've just completely lost and I feel like crap.
If I use the above model, then the bad stuff is easier to believe because I
want
to believe it. I want to know which 'flaws' to fix so that I can be closer to perfection (i.e. control). There is no benefit to me to hear the good stuff - I've already mastered those things, I don't need to hear about them. Plus, those good things can't be that great, they must be offset by something pretty bad, because bad stuff is still happening... . And since I am IN CONTROL then the bad stuff in me must be dominating, right?
That's just my current state of mind. You may totally disagree. Just something to ponder!
Wow, arabella, I cried when I read this. It really hit home. Thanks for being so self aware and for sharing this with me!
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daylily
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What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Relationship status: Married - 7 years; Relationship - total of 13 years
Posts: 331
Re: How to keep "his stuff" in his corner?
«
Reply #15 on:
May 09, 2013, 10:34:08 AM »
Quote from: beachtalks on May 09, 2013, 12:38:14 AM
1.
Going the extra mile
for my BPD-husband. He does have a condition and needs a bit of caretaking. I accept this and therefore don't fight the imbalance of attention anymore, because his needs are different than mine (mine don't involve him so much).
2.
Being patient with the process of disappointing
my BPD-husband. Time outs help this, and when we get our space we both tend to soften towards the other. I am finding a pattern that he usually compromises after some time to think.
3.
Really self-evaluating and always working on becoming a better partner and person in general
. I personally have been reading the bible, and no matter what it is you are doing, if you are working on bettering yourself, you will be
setting a great example
and will earn more respect and trust. Something the bible teaches is that you can be more generous and humble and loving for God's sake. This is the incentive many of us need!
4.
Keeping a strict schedule and sharing my schedule
with him is really helping both of us. I needed to make some boundaries, and sharing my schedule, as well as my feelings about the importance of my schedule, has helped us both.
5. (This one has been mentioned)... .
Not taking advice
from others, because they don't understands the relationship we have.
6.
Earning his trust
. I do this by supplying more information than I used to, even when it hurts him or if it seems unimportant. Information is a lot of what he needed, because many of his trust issues came from not knowing/understanding me fully. I've also given up so many of my old habits that worried him, like drinking, going out, hanging out with single friends, keeping male friends, Facebook, etc- It may seem like a big sacrifice, but I have so much more peace in my life, that the exchange is well worth it. Besides, now I have more time not just for him, but for myself and our kids.
Thank you, beachtalks! This is great advice. This thread is causing me some epiphonies today! I have been thinking that maybe some of my negativity about my H has been caused by my discussions of his behavior with family and close friends, who obviously think it's horrible and are worried about me. Perhaps I should stick to discussing these things here, with people who understand.
As for improving myself and being the best person/partner I can be, I am struggling with that right now because I think that's part of my problem! I am so focused on perfectionism and, as arabella pointed out, control, that it's hard for me to determine what the best person/partner would be in a healthy, unperfectionistic manner. I think someone wrote in another post that if housework doesn't get done, so be it. I admired that stance, but I find it hard to follow it! What is the "best wife I can be" if it's not being perfect at everything? I guess this struggle to define it is part of the process of getting there... . I have a lot of work to do!
Daylily
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arabella
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Re: How to keep "his stuff" in his corner?
«
Reply #16 on:
May 09, 2013, 12:07:08 PM »
Daylily - this stuff is so, SO hard! But you know what? The fact that you're thinking about it and trying to change means that you are way ahead of the game most people are playing. You're going to feel so much better when you come through on the other side of this journey.
People here talk a lot about learning to 'detach'. I always thought that meant detaching from my husband and his dysregulation. I'm coming to think of it now as more of a detachment from my own need for control. I need to detach from
myself
! Learning to let go of that instinct to make everything okay (impossible), to 'fix' everything is a huge challenge for me. I so desperately want to not be the 'victim' of circumstance. But I think I'm coming to realize that resilience doesn't lie in controlling others but rather in not needing a particular outcome. Does that make sense?
If I consider what I want in a 'perfect' partner, it isn't someone who controls everything and predicts the future. I want someone who will still be there for me and still be strong when things go wrong. The perfect partner doesn't do everything perfectly - but they are calm and collected and able to rise to the challenges that life throws up. They can COPE rather than control.
p.s. I don't talk about my H's issues with many people offline. I don't trust them to be able to stay unbiased towards him and the last thing I need is more people meddling about in an already messy situation. So our friends/family are on a strictly 'need to know' basis. My venting is all on here and to my T.
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How to keep "his stuff" in his corner?
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