Something smells - I need a vent

[arabella]

I can certainly see the validity in not having an open r/s with someone suffering from BPD. That said, I do believe it really depends on the individual and how well they can manage the disorder. The open r/s has been working for us for the past 10 years, so I don't think that is inherently the problem (at least not until now). I may reconsider the whole thing based on recent events, but I don't think now (soon perhaps, but not this week) is the time have a discussion to try to change that dynamic. Of course, coping mechanisms are necessary too... .  It's only a problem if it prevents a person from achieving some other growth (imho).

I do indeed take the GF seriously. I wouldn't be in such an emotional state if I didn't. If I thought this was all okay I wouldn't be so upset. Now I need to decided what to actually DO about it all. He knows I'm not okay with it. He also knows I won't be dragged into the quagmire. Last time he pulled a similar stunt I ended our romantic engagement - he got me as a platonic friend when I felt that I had time/energy for him.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

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[patientandclear]

He also knows I won't be dragged into the quagmire. Last time he pulled a similar stunt I ended our romantic engagement - he got me as a platonic friend when I felt that I had time/energy for him.

Arabella, was this during that six month episode 10 years ago, when he came back later & said almost like he had been dissociating that he didn't know what he'd been thinking?  How did you make the transition from friendship back to a romantic relationship, and what were the terms/boundaries/requirements you had for doing that, if any?  Was he to engage in therapy about these issues (and did he?)

[arabella]

Arabella, was this during that six month episode 10 years ago, when he came back later & said almost like he had been dissociating that he didn't know what he'd been thinking?  How did you make the transition from friendship back to a romantic relationship, and what were the terms/boundaries/requirements you had for doing that, if any?  Was he to engage in therapy about these issues (and did he?)

Yes, exactly, that was the time. He hadn't been diagnosed with BPD yet (that was years later) and I'd never even heard of BPD at that point. I had no idea I was dealing with a white rabbit!

We'd been seeing each other more frequently as he stabilized so it wasn't a huge stretch to turn our platonic dates into romantic ones (we had previously been engaged to be married too). Boundaries included: no get togethers with the now ex-gf, no dating around while we were reestablishing things (too distracting), I wouldn't move in with him right away (we'd lived together for the 2.5 years prior to the break-up), he couldn't blame me for his leaving (he really didn't anyway), and he had to show me I could trust him again (i.e. no lies or deceptions - he gave me access to all of his online accounts too, email, etc.)

We didn't go for therapy because there really was nothing wrong as between us. I know that sounds really odd, but we didn't fight, didn't disagree over any major issues, etc. Plus, he seemed to take responsibility for what had happened, he was all "This was my fault, I don't know what I was thinking, it was such a mistake, I can't believe I did that to you/us, it will never happen again, etc." Of course, I was paranoid it could happen again, but he assured me that now that he'd experienced it he'd never repeat the same mistake. He knew what he almost lost, etc. I said if he didn't know what caused it how could he know it wouldn't happen again. He insisted and I sort of gave up - I mean, I figured if he couldn't even remember half of it, what was the point in trying to discuss it? Obviously, in retrospect, I made a huge mistake there. I shall not repeat it.

I posted a new thread with an... .  interesting... .  update to my situation. It is seeming soo similar to that time 10 years ago. But yet it's not quite. But it is... .  

[arabella]

Thought about starting a new thread, then decided just to return to this one, figured maybe my update would make more sense if I tagged it on here.

So H moved out today. I thought I was prepared. Thought I was going to be okay. We had our first T appointment together today. We even have plans to see each other tomorrow. We have a race we're running together this weekend. The GF is committed to staying where she is and isn't coming back to this continent before mid-July (at the earliest).

I'm a mess. And I feel like an idiot for being a mess. I knew this was coming. I mentally walked myself through it a zillion times. I talked to other people about it. I talked about it here. I'm still crying over here. I cried when H was leaving and that stressed him out and he got angry. I wanted to at least look strong when he left. I wanted to be as cool and collected as he was. I wanted him to think I would be fine and dandy without him! No dice. I just cried and cried. I'm so disappointed in myself. Why isn't this getting easier? :'(

[maria1]

You're disappointed in yourself for crying and feeling terrible when your husband who you love leaves you?

Oh Arabella I just want you to give yourself a break. You express your real emotions and your husband gets angry. I'd forgotten that my pwBPD did this to me too when he ended our r/s but wanted to stay friends. He said something like 'are you going to keep making me feel bad?' He kept on saying it and in the end I said if he wanted to see me he couldn't stop me being upset. He couldn't control me expressing my emotions. And he stopped having a go at me about it. I had no idea about boundaries then or what I was doing but I was laying one down and it was very clear. I could not control my emotions and was not prepared to try because I was dealing with the emotional fall out of his actions, not mine.

You have nothing to feel bad about. Please, please, please don't feel disappointed in yourself for being upset in front of him. Why should you hide your emotions? Why do his have to trump yours? Him having a disorder doesn't mean you have to stop being who you are. It mustn't, (surely?) mean that Arabella.

  

[patientandclear]

Oh Arabella ... .  nothing at all wrong with that. Some of the hardest, best advice folks gaveme on this board was to be myself. Be true to myself. The reaction of our pwBPD to that may then have to be adjusted to & dealt with, but we can't cease being real peolple just because they may not love it & may react poorly.

I showed my pwBPD my dismay about his impulse choice to move away. Despite all kinds of pledges that he wouldn't disappear on me, he disappeared after I communicated that, as warmly & gently as I could. Obviously it didn't work for him that I conveyed my feelings about what he was doing. I haven't heard from him since (that was 7 weeks ago).  I paid what feels like a big price for showing what I feel about the loss that this r/s involves. But ... .  pretending we're not affected is impossible and false. It is what it is.

That sounds like a really hard moment.  I hope it feels better, and mostly hope you give yourself space to be sad and don't feel the need to fake an indifference you don't feel.

[arabella]

Thanks guys. It means a lot to have your support here. I've cried myself into a doozy of a headache.

I'm not upset that he got upset (which is a good improvement for me, I think). I wanted to be all calm and detached (well, appear that way anyway) for me. If he's pissed off about my crying, well, he was leaving anyway so at least I don't have to deal with it. Not ideal, but whatever.

I wanted to be all aloof, not to make him feel better, but to sort of preserve my own dignity - to show him I don't need him. I hate that he gets to look all independent and pulled together and I'm a needy mess. I'm throwing my own little tantrum here that I didn't get to show him that I could be okay without him. I wanted to be strong, you know? Even if it's not the whole truth - I wanted to show off my work, my tough self, instead of my heartbreak. At least I didn't ask him to stay.

[Siamese Rescue]

It's easier to look objectively at the situations of others than to live in your own Hell.  I can visualize you crying and him leaving. I wouldn't beat yourself up about crying. Screw it. You know, there's only so much posturing we can do when we're dealing with these people.  I just had to restrain myself from calling them a rude name, trying to keep in mind they have a "mental illness" but it's just obnoxious that so many people are in so much pain because of their illness. 

You know, because I've told you, I'm also a "stayer" and always prepared to stick with it  no matter what, even if it means that i get destroyed in the process.  I sympathize with you as a stayer.  I understand it. 

Still, I want to share with you that i've uncurled from my ball, reached out to friends, relatives I haven't seen in a long time.  I've managed to force myself to go out and socialize. The whole time I'm carrying this body in a body bag thrown over my shoulder - it's him, I'm carrying him and his butchering of me like a large purse. It compromises everything I do. Still, I'm doing it and I'm hopeful that one day I will walk over to a dumpster while I'm out and throw the body in there and walk alway with less baggage.

You're so deeply into this, deeper than I was into mine despite my 7 year tour of duty, so I can't make suggestions to you about removing yourself from him or the situation.  I just WISH you could say "umm, you've got tremendous problems, you'll always have this emotional carousel, there will always be a revolving door of people screwing with our relationship, I deserve to be a man's one and only, there's no end in sight to this journey of agony, when it's good I can't enjoy it because I know that bad is up ahead. Goodbye"

I'm desperately trying to embrace that mindset but it's so painful.  Seems so impossible. He's moved out? I would try everything within your strength and support of your family and friends to imagine him dead and unavailable for any kind of a relationship down the road. That sounds harsh, but I'm over here trying to carve out a survival plan too. 

I feel for you... .  I do. 

[Grey Kitty]

I hate that he gets to look all independent and pulled together and I'm a needy mess.

Better to look a needy mess, know your hurting, and be working on dealing with your problems... .  

... .  than to look independent and together, while being completely messed up inside, and not know where to start actually working on it.

And I gotta say, it seems better, stronger, and more genuine to let him know that what he is doing to you hurts like hell!

 

P.S. You DID show off your work and your strength. That's the part about not asking/begging him to stay, etc.

[arabella]

Siamese Rescue - you know what? Good for you for getting out there and living your life!  That body is going to start decomposing in the bag and, not only will it get lighter, eventually it will smell bad enough that you'll be happy to pitch in the closest trash can! (Err... .  was that too literal? )

You make a lot of good arguments for leaving, SR. Sometimes I have these flashes of 'what if I just left him?' - it's not like it hasn't occurred to me. I think I would actually be fine, odd as that may seem. I mean, I know it would be messy and hurt like hell and I'd have days of regret, etc. but I'm pretty sure I could do it. Right now I just don't want to. I'm not 100% sure why either. Well, now, that's sort of weird, isn't it? I mean, yes, I love him... .  But you can love someone and still leave. Hmm... .  There's obviously more to it but it's less clear when I've got a crying hangover (although I don't want to leave still, but there's an eerie calm after the storm).

GK - thank you. Yes, you're right. Despite appearances, I AM doing better than he is! Not asking him to stay was good. I think I'm improving (slowly).

Thanks for the hugs. It's been a rough road recently... .  

[briefcase]

Hi arablella,

I'm sorry you are going through such pain right now.  I truly sympathize.

Just a few observations from the sidelines . . .

Reading this entire thread from the start - you don't sound like someone who is very comfortable in an open relationship.  It sounds more like something you compromised on and have accomodated for a while now.  This arrangement sounds one-sided since he's the only one who really takes advantage of the open relationship.  

Now, he's told the other woman that he loves her.  He's moved out.  She's coming in July. Even under the terms of your open relationship - these things are clearly not ok with you.  Even if he crashes and burns with her (likely) it won't undo the damage to you.  No one likes to feel like they are the consolation prize.    

We've all tried to pound the square peg of their behavior into the round hole of our values in an attempt to hold things together.  The result usually looks something like this:

I'm a mess. And I feel like an idiot for being a mess. I knew this was coming. I mentally walked myself through it a zillion times. I talked to other people about it. I talked about it here. I'm still crying over here. I cried when H was leaving and that stressed him out and he got angry. I wanted to at least look strong when he left. I wanted to be as cool and collected as he was. I wanted him to think I would be fine and dandy without him! No dice. I just cried and cried. I'm so disappointed in myself. Why isn't this getting easier?

You sound like a very intelligent and capable person (present conditions notwithstanding - we've all been there  ).  Listen to your own instincts about this stuff - trust yourself.  You are walking an unsustainable path right now.  Find your truth, and then live it.   Don't pretend with him that this is all ok.  This clearly isn't acceptable to you.  

It's so easy to talk about redlines and "deal breaker" boundaries here.  It's also easy for us on the sidelines to see them and think - I'd never allow that to happen to me.  But in truth, for many of us here on this board, one of the hardest things we will ever do is decide to enforce a "deal breaker" boundary.  The turmoil and conflict within ourselves can feel overwhelming and paralyzing.  Many times we blink and hesitate, playing for time, hoping the pwBPD will "come to their senses" and relieve us of our obligations to protect ourselves and stand up for our values.  Sometimes it works and we get a temporary reprieve.  But, there is always a next time, and the ground we didn't defend last time is always harder to re-take.

You know what's right for your life.  It's incredibly hard to work through these issues when they are staring you in the face.  Believe me, I know.  But, keep working and your path will eventually seem so clear, and so right, that you will have the confidence to proceed despite anything he does or says.  This can take many forms and doesn't mean you have to end the relationship.  It's about taking control over your life, you get to choose what that path looks like.  You aren't the victim of circumstance here.  

[arabella]

No one likes to feel like they are the consolation prize.    

***

But, there is always a next time, and the ground we didn't defend last time is always harder to re-take.

***

But, keep working and your path will eventually seem so clear, and so right, that you will have the confidence to proceed despite anything he does or says.  This can take many forms and doesn't mean you have to end the relationship.  It's about taking control over your life, you get to choose what that path looks like.

Thank you, Briefcase. Phew! I know. I have got to get to that sweet spot where I know what I want. I'm hoping that a bit of time will allow me to see more clearly - you know, now that the 'cloud' is gone.

I told H yesterday that I was feeling like a consolation prize. I didn't come up with that term but I will use it next time, it's very accurate. I just said that it felt like he was more interested in me now that the GF was less interested in him. I need to be a priority for me - not some default to fall back on. If he can't see that, well, I'm betting someone else could. I could do better. I'd even just be better off alone at that point.

I haven't had a major issue with any of the gf's prior to the current one. Spats, sure, but they were resolved and the boundaries that were in place were respected (even the minor ones). My firm boundary with the r/s with other women is that if they become a priority over me then he can have them entirely and me not at all. We can be casual friends, but all of the extras get transfered to the new girl (chores, responsibilities, financial stresses, family obligations, shoulder to cry on, etc). That's how it went last time and that is how it will go this time.

Umm, could you give me an example of a path that would keep me from negatively reinforcing my boundary without ending the r/s? I'm seem to have gotten stuck in black/white thinking over this and it always seems so all or nothing. I really would like to explore other ideas.

Thanks again!

[connect]

Just wanted to send you some hugs from the UK