When you spy & reveal their secrets

[Siamese Rescue]

I'm one week from the day he broke up with me. I feel just as raw as last Friday. I'm curious. He and I started spiraling out of control because he resumed a "friendship" with his ex, who is my antagonizing enemy, and he also started engaging in a questionable relationship with another woman as well. I hired someone to watch him. It turned up no real evidence that he was cheating, no physical affection shown,  yet there were a lot of half truths and non answered questions before each of his "meetings" with both the exgirlfriend and this other woman. woman. Further I have no idea what kind of stories he was telling them. What kind of relationship he was starting back up with the ex. In any event I have beaten myself into a pulp for reacting to these relationships the way I did with such fear and anxiety and insecurity, jealousy, etc. I couldn't help myself. 

The straw that broke the camels back was when I admitted then man I saw at the coffee place on three occasions was a private detective. He was livid and furious and fixated that I already knew things before he admitted them to me later in the evening or the next day.

So I'm curious - do BPD's have some hot button with your learning their secrets ? So they have some special explosiveness about you having watched them or found them out, blown their cover ? I feel like it's not my behavior of jealousy or insecurity that was the final nail in the coffin but rather the fact that I had a PI that really really pushed him over the edge. Does anyone know if there's a pattern to or something consistent with them freaking out about finding their secrets and lies? I'm still in a wealth of pain and blaming myself for going crazy as he calls it and blowing the relationship to shreds.

[Siamese Rescue]

One detail left out- the ex was someone he cheated with after they broke up and i found out many times that he was still screwing her ... .  so that's why i never trusted them together.

[Mightyhammers]

My ex didn’t speak to me for 6-7 months when I asked her if there was anyone else involved – ‘how can you ask me that!’ ‘You aren’t the man I thought you were!’ etc etc

[slimmiller]

 

My experience (and you will see that often here) was when I caught her red handed, saw the texts and chat conversation, (on MY computer) she got mad because I was spying on her. She could not believe why I would betray her trust even as she is having an affair on me.

They will blame and project and even say they did it because of something you did etc etc.

My thoughts, if they have nothing to hide, why should they be upset?

[Slave to the binary]

Hi Siamese,

How ironic to find your post this morning

I had to share this experience with members affected by the irrational behaviors often seen in those suffering from intimacy/attachment/abandonment issues. My UD-exbf is known for sabotaging the things I value (internet connection, my appliances, etc.) during his "rages". In the past, he has cut the cords on all my appliances, ripped out the cable modem and took it with him, and remotely changed the configuration on the router. The acts alone are not enough for him as he will call me and say things like "How is your Internet connection working for you" and hang up. Or call and tell me he canceled the cable service (which was a lie after calling them). So, after years of the same old crap, I finally used something against him. I have evidence of his conversations with people at work where he mentions "drinking whiskey" and "eating certain foods", that were ALL lies. He does not touch any alcohol since recovering from a binge lifestyle many years ago, and I cook all the meals in the home and I am certain we didn't eat "a can of Bush's baked beans" for supper. (LOL!). I called him out on this and can not help but notice a huge dichotomy, its ok to ruin other people's lives but they have NO ability to deal with anything anyone dumps on them!  He has a long history of lying about things most people would not consider lying about.

Also, to prevent losing my mind I've turned to humor in dealing with his behavior. I know it sounds horribly cruel and unsupported, but to me its called survival. Now I sit around in my head laughing imagining him telling his boss "If I do not get what I want, I will sabotage your Internet connection!", and imagine him calling his boss and laughing hysterically into the phone and hanging up. This is how this guy deals with life.

[turtle]

I'm still in a wealth of pain and blaming myself for going crazy as he calls it and blowing the relationship to shreds.

The fact that you spied on him isn't what blew the relationship to shreds.

The fact that you felt you HAD to spy on him is what blew the relationship to shreds.

I don't know anyone (BPD or not) that would like to have a PI following them around.  It's a drastic solution to a drastic set of circumstances.  If trust and honesty were the foundation of your relationship, you would never used such drastic measures, right?  And how could trust and honesty EVER be the foundation of your relationship when he destroys your things?

The PI isn't the problem, the foundation of the relationship is the HUGE problem.  No trust.  Relationship over.

turtle

[VeryFree]

I found out things about by stbw.

She didn't explode, she just denied and went angry about me looking after the thruth.

It wasn't possible to discuss the revealed facts, it had to be about me checking the facts and about my lack of trust (even if I had 100% evidence).

Blaming and projecting.

[turtle]

And one more thing... .  

Anyone who harms you or your property is NOT trustworthy.  Your trust issues with him started long before you suspected his ties to these other women.  The other women might have been what propelled you to hire the PI, but you didn't trust him before that -- and you shouldn't have.

When I used to catch crazyx in his lies, it ALWAYS - WITHOUT FAIL -- sent him into a rage.

He used to destroy my things on a regular basis and then RAGE about it when I confronted him.

Then I had to ask myself... .  "turtle, why are you still here, expending so much energy trying to uncover his bs,  and then listening to him rage because he got caught?"  :)ealing with the answers to that was hard!

turtle

[Siamese Rescue]

Turtle - I think you read a reply post from another member about the destroying of things and thought it was mine... . He didn't destroy my things. He just consistently lied about his ex and their relationship. Drove me crazy.

[Newton]

Turtle... .  makes absolute sense (she is rather adept at this!   )

Your behaviour in looking was motivated by his suspicious behaviour... .  

So right now you don't have conclusive proof... .  

What seems more important is whether you want to be with a partner you promotes such a negative atmosphere... .  

PwBPD will tend to react to our "truth" with projection, rage, deflection, denial etc... .  rarely do they fess up to their poor behaviour... .  

How we choose to react to this behaviour is how we move forward  

 

[turtle]

Turtle - I think you read a reply post from another member about the destroying of things and thought it was mine... . He didn't destroy my things. He just consistently lied about his ex and their relationship. Drove me crazy.

Oh... .  my apologies!

Destroying things.  Consistenly lying.  Same thing really ---- NOT trustworthy.  Your use of the word "just" in the above quote is something we all did.  It was JUST lying about other women, it was JUST the rages, it was JUST the cheating, it was JUST the violence, it was JUST this, that, or the other thing.  These are all HUGE things. Lying about things is HUGE and it doesn't chip away at the relationship... .  it DESTROYS it.

And of course it drove you crazy!  It's not supposed to be that way! 

The fact that you felt you HAD to hire a PI speaks volumes!  If he thinks that your hiring a PI is what blew the relationship to shreds, he's sorely mistaken.  The lies blow a relationship to shreds -- and that works BOTH ways.

turtle

[Newton]

Turtle ... .  you are right... .  

An adult who constantly breaks promises (or misrepresents facts with false words)... .  might as well be smashing up property... .  

It is totally dysfunctional behaviour... .  and it's our choice to decide to be around someone who is behaving like this... .  

[turtle]

Turtle ... .  you are right... .  

An adult who constantly breaks promises (or misrepresents facts with false words)... .  might as well be smashing up property... .  

It is totally dysfunctional behaviour... .  and it's our choice to decide to be around someone who is behaving like this... .  

It IS our choice... .  and how we let the waters get so murky about what is acceptable to us is what needs to be addressed.  At least that's what I had to address.  Not fun.

[Changed4safety]

I am always astonished how someone else is addressing something that I need to hear.  Thank you all!

[lhd981]

The final breakup blowout with my BPD exgf happened over her snooping through my computer late at night and finding pictures (not the inappropriate type or anything) of a friend of mine that I had gone out to dinner with. I purposefully left them on my phone (which copies them to my computer automatically) to see if she was snooping.

For the past year since the breakup, I felt guilty for essentially having "baited" her - but now I'm beginning to rethink that in the context Turtle has provided: what made me feel like I HAD to do this to see if she was going through my stuff? Well, the fact that I didn't fully trust her. What made me begin to not trust her? Her constant talk about how she "hated liars" and the fact that I saw her doing some extreme flirting with her coworker at an office party.

Thank you for posting your experience, Siamesse Rescue; and thank you for posting your excellent insight, Turtle

[afterdeath]

Caught mine red handed twice through Facebook messages. First time she told me the password and said she had nothing to hide, after finding deleted messages, or so she thought, she said I betrayed her.

Second time I guessed the new password,say what you will hacking or not but I got my answers and closure.

She used this act against me that I was a psychotic bad guy for doing this low act... .  Of catching her being unfaithful.

Her office mate said he had heard about it and didn't agree with what I did, but after I told him my side he understood and said he never agreed with what she was doing, and continued on to let me know she was having the affair all along and purposely treated me like crap to get rid of me.

He ended with "you were too nice for her, you're better than her"

He's a coward though as well for hiding the truth and covering up for her.

I respect none of the people she's associated with as she had them all under her thumb.

Except for me, I was the one person she couldn't fully control and get her way.

[whereisthezen]

Hiring a PI sounds like its over the top at that point, but really it's probably not with a BPD partner.

Trust issues, relationship issues, it's not about the normal reasons one would hire a PI I don't think, maybe I am wrong but sever projection coupled with previous infidelity coupled with mirroring could make any nonBPD want the truth if he/she is getting mixed signals or I mean red flags then wonderful behavior, then red flags, intuition, gut feeling.

At the base it's because your in a relationship with someone who has severe BPD traits, at the peak nons do things they wouldnt do in any other relationship.

I think hiring a PI to get you the information you need to make a decision, is what you needed or at least something you found comfort in such as a solution to your r/s issues. If it's twisted, we're all twisted as nons at some point or another before we find our way with them or without them.

SR, hope you are taking care of you and really giving yourself love.  It's not an easy road with a BPD partner, give yourself healing things, it will pass. 

[benny2]

Oh my yes! The more you uncover, the more outraged they get. Remember, they work very hard to hide this side of them. They certainly don't want someone to come along and expose them. Mine threw a fit just like a child when I asked him to show me his cell phone because he became soo protective of it. Then I caught him sneaking over to his ex's house at 4 in the morning after telling me he was going to work early. It went on and on. I caught on to all his games. I know when he is lying, and I know when he is hiding something. I'm sure that had a lot to do with him not wanting to get to close to me again. I had his number. I so just want to text him and tell him what a sick, perverted, cruel, manipulative man he is. I think maybe this would be easier if I just got angry and let it all out.

[rogerroger]

My experience (and you will see that often here) was when I caught her red handed, saw the texts and chat conversation, (on MY computer) she got mad because I was spying on her. She could not believe why I would betray her trust even as she is having an affair on me.

I had the same experience. I overheard her talking with a guy while she was hiding in the bathroom with her phone. First I asked who she'd been talking to and she said it was one of her girlfriends. Then I said I knew it was so-and-so. She admitted that was true but said it was just about some minor work-related matter. So I told her that I had actually heard her through the door talking about how she couldn't wait to party with him. She got mad and said I had misheard her. A few days later I asked her about it again, and she said he was just a friend. So I told her I had read her email and found an exchange where he had said how fun it was to kiss her. Did she fall on her knees and beg forgiveness? No. She went ballistic on me for violating her trust by snooping into her email.

[wanttoknowmore]

Once a pwBPD knows that you have understood their real self, their manipulations, their lies, their hooks and so on and that  you have understood about their disorder... .  they RUN from you as they lose hope that it will not be possible any more for them to control and manipulate you.

They jump to the new one who doesnot know them yet.

[fromheeltoheal]

Yup, echoes of hell in this thread for me too.

The other women were triangulation (read definition); a BPD gets too close to you, they feel engulfed, need to find someone to idealize, a different phase of the pathology.  Plus it gives them a sense of control because they have options, and can keep the needed distance from you.

I think the core of the busted-when-lying rages is a belief by the BPD that if you really knew who they were, honestly and openly, you'd leave, and their biggest fear is that of abandonment, so they need to create a version of themselves they think you'll like, and play that; it started in their mirroring of you in the beginning.  Once they see it isn't working, because you bust them or display mistrust by hiring a PI of whatever, their cover's blown, shame shows up, they can't tolerate it, so they rage.

And like mine, your gut feel was telling you something, which motivated you to hire the PI to begin with, and that something was a lack of trust, like you were being played, which you were.  I just focus on the fact that she was doing it because she has a very low opinion of herself, and can't fathom how anyone could love the real her if the truth be told.  Nothing for us there, let's go find some someone capable of real connection.

[caughtnreleased]

A friend of mine told me that my ex had gone on a major promiscuity spree maybe a day after I broke up with him, sleeping with anything and anyone, even with his best friend/coworker's girlfriend (thereby sabotaging an important relationship and work contact).  It took me three months to digest the information and get the courage to tell him about it. When I finally told him that I knew what had happenned he tried to deny it at first, finally conceded and could only say he didn't know why he'd done it.  He clearly felt awful about it... .  it made me feel bad for him. I think in the end talking about it just made him feel so bad inside that he left right after I told him I knew.  I haven't hear from him since. 

[Kunoichi]

My BiP/BPDh, even when presented with the evidence, denies, denies, denies any wrongdoing. He never gets angry about me snooping on his pc he just gets pissed that I am accusing him of something denies that he's done anything wrong and then he attempts to become Mr Perfect. I know it's all just an attempt to smooth things over so I don't try to leave or call the police on him (his activities are illegal) but too late, I called the police today. They are reviewing the evidence I gave them and likely will be arresting him in the near future.  All I can say is C'est la vie.

[Louise7777]

I think all of this applies to PAPD and NPD too.

[BorderlineMagnet]

The only mildly angry or even harsh feelings my ex pwBPDgf showed towards me in the 10 months I knew her was when I exposed her to her new guy, that she was still my gf for a good month when they were supposedly a couple, and had tried to get me to have sex with her in that time. She didn't like being forced to make a choice. She even basically said that in an email recently, that "when I had to make a choice I choose him." Well no ___? Like you think I was just gonna be cool with it if you chose me? This scenario should have never arose in the first place. But yeah, abandonment fears/low self-esteem issues. They don't like being found out for what they are, especially the higher-functioning ones like her. She won't even admit at this point that her disorder had anything to do with her cheating. Half tempted to email her and ask her: "Well, if it wasn't your disorder that caused you to cheat when we essentially had a perfect relationship then you must just be a dirty, lying whore. So which is it?" Doubt that would go over well.

[MontyD]

Hi BorderlineMagnet,

Pop over here  https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=79702.0  

People affected by Borderline Personality Disorder generally have diminished executive functions.

They know what they do is wrong but can't help themselves.

They know right from wrong.

Consequently all the wrongs they did on impulse continually revolves around in their heads and causes their pain.  Imagine you thinking all day every day of all the mistakes you made in your life. We would go crazy too.  They have found mechanisms to cope with this we will never understand.



Understanding reliefs our pain,  a bit !

Monty

[BorderlineMagnet]

Monty,

I actually knew these things... .  It's just tomorrow is the one year anniversary of us meeting, and I've just been thinking about her a lot lately, and have been in an angry/sad place. My life has been going great lately, and this is just haunting me. I miss her honestly. I know she isn't a lying whore. I know she didn't mean to hurt me. I know what she feels is probably more excruciating than what I'm feeling. I'm just really kind of mad at fate I guess. She was so much of what I wanted, that it feels like such a sick cosmic joke that she had to be BPD.

[MontyD]

So true, I have said it a thousand times "WHY ME"

I didn't just run over a Chinaman, I got the whole bloody family !

Monty

[BorderlineMagnet]

The fact that she was the second BPD ex in a row makes it worse. She actually picked me up and made me whole again, only to shatter me even harder than the one before her. I'm strong and can endure, but there are days... .  

[MontyD]

I have been 59 days now in N/C, after three years last March of being in Hell.  I to have ups and downs but I am finding the downs are becoming less.  I have my own home and the garden has been keeping me busy and my mind off things.

Monty