Recent out of the blue convo with ex

[Beware of Junk Psychology...]

Haven't talked to ex for months and I get this email... .  


Ex:  Well, (old marriage counselor) and more so Dr. xyz have decided that Wellbutrin may be what I need.  I guess it helps depression and unlike SSRIs it also stems anger.  Dr. thinks I may have had issues with mild depression and anger most of my life so she thinks I'll need to be on this the rest of my life if it works for me.  That made me sad (OK, very sad) as I have enough to remind me about health with insulin.  Now I have more.  I remember you saying you didn't like it as you tried it for smoking.  Question, in our breakup, about what percent would you attribute to my anger?  (25%, 75%, 100%?)  Thanks.

Hugs,

Ex

Me:  To be honest, 0%. 

It was the loneliness, I was so lonely for you and  you made your plans to not include me.  It was very painful.  And the devalue after being idealized.  Not caring that I had money issues when you made so much more money than me, for example.  You did not like me anymore and avoided me like the plague.  At the beginning when you idealized me was so soothing, you massaging my feet with salve, you helping me with my back.  I had never in my life had someone care for me that deeply before that.  Then when you did the 180 from that, when the reality became clear that I wasn’t as perfect as you thought, it all went downhill.  Problem is, both were unrealistic, I’m not 100% perfect and I’m not 100% bad.  Black and white thinking is not realistic.  I have my own issues too that made the marriage so hard.

Remember when we were planning the marriage and you made a list of concerns.  I could not think of one thing to put on a list, that is how far removed I was from knowing my needs and how to express them.  Been working on that.  My car nags me with it’s needs, I need new oil wah, my tires are low on air wah.  I imagine me walking around saying, I need a hug wah, I need a nap wah.  Being in touch with that was kind of molded out of me growing up.  It’s hard to recover that.

Sorry, your email wasn’t about that.  (My friend) is on low dose Prozac for life because her brain was molded into a bad pattern for years from an invalidating childhood.  She cannot go off it ever.  Another friend was telling me how when your brain has been doing a depressive pattern for years and years, it takes antidepressants to rewire or make new healthier pathways.  You mentioned you had been on something before, when you broke up with (prior ex).  It sounded like you did well with that?  (My friend) is on a very lose dose and she said it was a life safer.

Who is Dr. xyz?  I didn’t know you were still seeing (old marriage counselor), that is awesome.

Hugs,

Me

Ex:  Thank you for your response!  I'm sorry I did not understand that pain until now.  You explained it so well just now.  Or maybe my brain is finally able to understand you better?

I had been on an SSRI (I think it was Celexa or Lexapro).  Trouble with that was it made my sexual functioning stop (a now commonly accepted side-effect of all SSRIs so far).  Which at the time really didn't matter.  But because of that, I sorta crawled into a shell to hide since I thought I was a bad man (bad because I was non-functioning).  It lead me to severe isolation and loneliness.  But with the SSRI in me I just sorta accepted loneliness as the way it is  (called it my big time out where I just existed).  Well, now I'm struggling with loneliness again but without help of SSRIs, etc. its turning into hopelessness (Like I'm too darned old to meet another nice person).  I know that is not realistic but my subconscious has gotten hold of that like a tick in a dog's back.  It wakes me in the middle of the night feeling dread and occasionally sorta panics me in the evening.  I'm a hot mess now…  Wellbutrin supposedly helps like an SSRI without the sex-side-effects.  It of course has its own but they are similar to SSRIs.  One excellent thing about WB is it does a very good job at reducing anger that SSRIs only do as a result of the "leveling" process.  I would love not to feel anger when someone is rude to me, something goes wrong, or the like.  I remember getting frustrated at a an airplane model that was not fitting together due to manufacturing errors.  I got frustrated then rage hit me.  I was like 7 years old and I still remember crushing it with my hands until they bled.  I then turned that rage on the rest of my collection.  In the end I had destroyed my once prized collection and all I had to show was severely bloody hands and tears.  Since then I battled with anger and most times caged it but sometimes not.  I apologize to you for the" nots".  You received some of them.  I am sorry!

Do you know about when I did the 180?  I'm sorry for that too.

Dr xyz is my regular physician who can prescribe meds where (old marriage counselor) cannot.

I have to go to a meeting now.  Thanks for listening (reading)

Hugs,

Ex

Me:  Yes, when we took vacation time and I refinished the coffee table.  In my mind we could take care of fixing stuff and then party on the weekend, bike and do some enjoyable things to reward the hard work.  You told me you wanted to go to your friend’s for the weekend.  I was very upset about that because I was so looking forward to having some fun.  I work so hard, I needed it very much.  You didn’t care how I felt and told me I was a very selfish person.  I believe that is called projection.  When we have uncomfortable feelings we don’t want to acknowledge, we project them onto someone else.

The rage.  It’s all tied to missing that milestone in early childhood.  It’s the milestone of separation.  It’s when a kiddo learns that momma is separate from the child but it’s ok.  A kiddo runs off, freaks, returns to make sure momma is still there.  Then the child gets braver about wandering off further, returns to make sure momma is there and then explores some more.  When you don’t make that milestone, a person gets stuck there.  Think of the anger of a two year old, it’s sudden, it’s intense, it’s out of the blue.  The milestone gets the kiddo past that.  You have been down on yourself and expecting the impossible of yourself when it’s been something that was outside of your control.  It is not your fault.  Reparenting is the solution.  Not fighting the feelings but falling into them in a safe place with a safe person.  (old marriage counselor) might be that for you and WB might be the medication that allows you to explore those very scary feelings.  Don’t judge the inner child, love him, be totally unconditional with him, he needs it and he is so darn cute and adorable.  So lovable.

Until you do, you will relive that pattern of idealization/devalue with anyone that gets close to you.  A kiddo is enmeshed with momma, the two are one in their mind.  Then if the other person has a differing opinion, that blows the whole we are one out of the water and the devalue begins.  You gots to take on the milestone so you can be ok with someone that has a different opinion and still be able to love them.  I know you can do it, I have faith in you.

Hugs,

Me

Ex:  What is reparenting?  It is just such a foreign term to me.  Sort of like being born again was odd sounding to Pacific Islanders.  They thought it had to do with physically being birthed again.  I could google it but I'm interested in your perceptions.

Hugs,

Ex

Me:  It’s getting what you needed then, now.  Better late than never.  Peeling the onion past layers of denial, defenses, old coping mechanisms.  It’s getting to the heart of the pain, healing.  The inner child drives the train until his or her pain is addressed.  Mostly wanting to be heard, to have someone listen.

Like I used to talk about a bad thing that happened to me in the past but I had no feelings associated with the event.  Bad thing, ho hum, what’s for dinner.

When you start connecting to all those buried hurts, it feels overwhelming.  The inner child needs lots of coaxing to open up.  Lots of feeling safe, I’m listening, it’s ok, it’s not your fault and then, they start opening up.  You are not going to die, it won’t kill you, although it can feel like it, seriously.  There is grieving, there are tears.  There is a fear that the pain will never stop but it does.  Then there is peace.  The anxiety is gone.  The anxiety you feel.  That is the old stuff wanting to be addressed but having no outlet.  (Old marriage counselor) is good, he is unconditional, he is accepting, there is nothing you can say that will freak him out.  He is a safe harbor.  That is a blessing.


Ex: "I used to talk about a bad thing that happened to me in the past but I had no feelings associated with the event."

Was that like dad making you get the magazines, (another bad thing), etc?  I'm sorry I didn't respond to you in a more supportive way when you told me about them.  I remember feeling bad but not sure what to do.  You did NOT deserve any treatment like that!  It is none of my business now but what sort of issues did you recall from ages 1 - 2?  How did you recall them?  I have difficulty recalling much before kindergarten.  Even kindergarten is only still images and snippets.  If I have mom - enmeshment issues from the stages you described, I'm not sure how to recall them.  I could believe it since my mom was dealing with the death of (baby brother)l when I was about 1 1/2 and I could see someone pretty much shutting down for a while because of the loss of their baby.

Hugs,

Ex

Me:  I did a lot of praying asking God to connect me to the feelings.  I spent some nights unable to sleep and laying there quietly, they started to surface.  It takes being quiet, no distractions, started talking to little ‘me’.   Picturing me as a little girl in my mind’s eye.   Imagining me as a big sister that told her I was there, it’s ok now and that I would protect her.  It’s not so much remembering the events, it’s connecting to the feelings.  You are allowed to feel anger towards your parents, it won’t hurt them, keeping it in though, does hurt you.

I was also reading a book called “Get Me Out of Here”, it’s one gal’s healing journey.  The healing is the same for all types of hurts in childhood that haunt grownups and this gal’s autobiography triggered emotions in me.  That helped them to surface, too.  I’d read a chapter at night and then go to sleep thinking about it.  I think this book could help you to see her journey and how it all works.

The hardest part is fighting the denial that will try to suck you back in.  And you’ll feel tempted to escape through coping by finding distractions.  Difficult to stay with it, stay focused because little ‘you’ is very scared.  That’s why you need to tell him that you are there, you won’t let anything bad happen to him.

Ex:  Yep, I'm going to need help from (old marriage counselor) on this one…

Hugs,

Ex

[Rose Tiger]

Haven't talked to ex for months and I get this email... .  


Ex:  Well, (old marriage counselor) and more so Dr. xyz have decided that Wellbutrin may be what I need.  I guess it helps depression and unlike SSRIs it also stems anger.  Dr. thinks I may have had issues with mild depression and anger most of my life so she thinks I'll need to be on this the rest of my life if it works for me.  That made me sad (OK, very sad) as I have enough to remind me about health with insulin.  Now I have more.  I remember you saying you didn't like it as you tried it for smoking.  Question, in our breakup, about what percent would you attribute to my anger?  (25%, 75%, 100%?)  Thanks.

Hugs,

Ex

Me:  To be honest, 0%. 

It was the loneliness, I was so lonely for you and  you made your plans to not include me.  It was very painful.  And the devalue after being idealized.  Not caring that I had money issues when you made so much more money than me, for example.  You did not like me anymore and avoided me like the plague.  At the beginning when you idealized me was so soothing, you massaging my feet with salve, you helping me with my back.  I had never in my life had someone care for me that deeply before that.  Then when you did the 180 from that, when the reality became clear that I wasn’t as perfect as you thought, it all went downhill.  Problem is, both were unrealistic, I’m not 100% perfect and I’m not 100% bad.  Black and white thinking is not realistic.  I have my own issues too that made the marriage so hard.

Remember when we were planning the marriage and you made a list of concerns.  I could not think of one thing to put on a list, that is how far removed I was from knowing my needs and how to express them.  Been working on that.  My car nags me with it’s needs, I need new oil wah, my tires are low on air wah.  I imagine me walking around saying, I need a hug wah, I need a nap wah.  Being in touch with that was kind of molded out of me growing up.  It’s hard to recover that.

Sorry, your email wasn’t about that.  (My friend) is on low dose Prozac for life because her brain was molded into a bad pattern for years from an invalidating childhood.  She cannot go off it ever.  Another friend was telling me how when your brain has been doing a depressive pattern for years and years, it takes antidepressants to rewire or make new healthier pathways.  You mentioned you had been on something before, when you broke up with (prior ex).  It sounded like you did well with that?  (My friend) is on a very lose dose and she said it was a life safer.

Who is Dr. xyz?  I didn’t know you were still seeing (old marriage counselor), that is awesome.

Hugs,

Me

Ex:  Thank you for your response!  I'm sorry I did not understand that pain until now.  You explained it so well just now.  Or maybe my brain is finally able to understand you better?

I had been on an SSRI (I think it was Celexa or Lexapro).  Trouble with that was it made my sexual functioning stop (a now commonly accepted side-effect of all SSRIs so far).  Which at the time really didn't matter.  But because of that, I sorta crawled into a shell to hide since I thought I was a bad man (bad because I was non-functioning).  It lead me to severe isolation and loneliness.  But with the SSRI in me I just sorta accepted loneliness as the way it is  (called it my big time out where I just existed).  Well, now I'm struggling with loneliness again but without help of SSRIs, etc. its turning into hopelessness (Like I'm too darned old to meet another nice person).  I know that is not realistic but my subconscious has gotten hold of that like a tick in a dog's back.  It wakes me in the middle of the night feeling dread and occasionally sorta panics me in the evening.  I'm a hot mess now…  Wellbutrin supposedly helps like an SSRI without the sex-side-effects.  It of course has its own but they are similar to SSRIs.  One excellent thing about WB is it does a very good job at reducing anger that SSRIs only do as a result of the "leveling" process.  I would love not to feel anger when someone is rude to me, something goes wrong, or the like.  I remember getting frustrated at a an airplane model that was not fitting together due to manufacturing errors.  I got frustrated then rage hit me.  I was like 7 years old and I still remember crushing it with my hands until they bled.  I then turned that rage on the rest of my collection.  In the end I had destroyed my once prized collection and all I had to show was severely bloody hands and tears.  Since then I battled with anger and most times caged it but sometimes not.  I apologize to you for the" nots".  You received some of them.  I am sorry!

Do you know about when I did the 180?  I'm sorry for that too.

Dr xyz is my regular physician who can prescribe meds where (old marriage counselor) cannot.

I have to go to a meeting now.  Thanks for listening (reading)

Hugs,

Ex

Me:  Yes, when we took vacation time and I refinished the coffee table.  In my mind we could take care of fixing stuff and then party on the weekend, bike and do some enjoyable things to reward the hard work.  You told me you wanted to go to your friend’s for the weekend.  I was very upset about that because I was so looking forward to having some fun.  I work so hard, I needed it very much.  You didn’t care how I felt and told me I was a very selfish person.  I believe that is called projection.  When we have uncomfortable feelings we don’t want to acknowledge, we project them onto someone else.

The rage.  It’s all tied to missing that milestone in early childhood.  It’s the milestone of separation.  It’s when a kiddo learns that momma is separate from the child but it’s ok.  A kiddo runs off, freaks, returns to make sure momma is still there.  Then the child gets braver about wandering off further, returns to make sure momma is there and then explores some more.  When you don’t make that milestone, a person gets stuck there.  Think of the anger of a two year old, it’s sudden, it’s intense, it’s out of the blue.  The milestone gets the kiddo past that.  You have been down on yourself and expecting the impossible of yourself when it’s been something that was outside of your control.  It is not your fault.  Reparenting is the solution.  Not fighting the feelings but falling into them in a safe place with a safe person.  (old marriage counselor) might be that for you and WB might be the medication that allows you to explore those very scary feelings.  Don’t judge the inner child, love him, be totally unconditional with him, he needs it and he is so darn cute and adorable.  So lovable.

Until you do, you will relive that pattern of idealization/devalue with anyone that gets close to you.  A kiddo is enmeshed with momma, the two are one in their mind.  Then if the other person has a differing opinion, that blows the whole we are one out of the water and the devalue begins.  You gots to take on the milestone so you can be ok with someone that has a different opinion and still be able to love them.  I know you can do it, I have faith in you.

Hugs,

Me

Ex:  What is reparenting?  It is just such a foreign term to me.  Sort of like being born again was odd sounding to Pacific Islanders.  They thought it had to do with physically being birthed again.  I could google it but I'm interested in your perceptions.

Hugs,

Ex

Me:  It’s getting what you needed then, now.  Better late than never.  Peeling the onion past layers of denial, defenses, old coping mechanisms.  It’s getting to the heart of the pain, healing.  The inner child drives the train until his or her pain is addressed.  Mostly wanting to be heard, to have someone listen.

Like I used to talk about a bad thing that happened to me in the past but I had no feelings associated with the event.  Bad thing, ho hum, what’s for dinner.

When you start connecting to all those buried hurts, it feels overwhelming.  The inner child needs lots of coaxing to open up.  Lots of feeling safe, I’m listening, it’s ok, it’s not your fault and then, they start opening up.  You are not going to die, it won’t kill you, although it can feel like it, seriously.  There is grieving, there are tears.  There is a fear that the pain will never stop but it does.  Then there is peace.  The anxiety is gone.  The anxiety you feel.  That is the old stuff wanting to be addressed but having no outlet.  (Old marriage counselor) is good, he is unconditional, he is accepting, there is nothing you can say that will freak him out.  He is a safe harbor.  That is a blessing.


Ex: "I used to talk about a bad thing that happened to me in the past but I had no feelings associated with the event."

Was that like dad making you get the magazines, (another bad thing), etc?  I'm sorry I didn't respond to you in a more supportive way when you told me about them.  I remember feeling bad but not sure what to do.  You did NOT deserve any treatment like that!  It is none of my business now but what sort of issues did you recall from ages 1 - 2?  How did you recall them?  I have difficulty recalling much before kindergarten.  Even kindergarten is only still images and snippets.  If I have mom - enmeshment issues from the stages you described, I'm not sure how to recall them.  I could believe it since my mom was dealing with the death of (baby brother)l when I was about 1 1/2 and I could see someone pretty much shutting down for a while because of the loss of their baby.

Hugs,

Ex

Me:  I did a lot of praying asking God to connect me to the feelings.  I spent some nights unable to sleep and laying there quietly, they started to surface.  It takes being quiet, no distractions, started talking to little ‘me’.   Picturing me as a little girl in my mind’s eye.   Imagining me as a big sister that told her I was there, it’s ok now and that I would protect her.  It’s not so much remembering the events, it’s connecting to the feelings.  You are allowed to feel anger towards your parents, it won’t hurt them, keeping it in though, does hurt you.

I was also reading a book called “Get Me Out of Here”, it’s one gal’s healing journey.  The healing is the same for all types of hurts in childhood that haunt grownups and this gal’s autobiography triggered emotions in me.  That helped them to surface, too.  I’d read a chapter at night and then go to sleep thinking about it.  I think this book could help you to see her journey and how it all works.

The hardest part is fighting the denial that will try to suck you back in.  And you’ll feel tempted to escape through coping by finding distractions.  Difficult to stay with it, stay focused because little ‘you’ is very scared.  That’s why you need to tell him that you are there, you won’t let anything bad happen to him.

Ex:  Yep, I'm going to need help from (old marriage counselor) on this one…

Hugs,

Ex

[marbleloser]

"It takes being quiet, no distractions, started talking to little ‘me’.   Picturing me as a little girl in my mind’s eye.   Imagining me as a big sister that told her I was there, it’s ok now and that I would protect her."

Give her a hug for me,ok?

[maria1]

Oh Rose Tiger

I'm so sorry that you're going through this  

Do you know, out of the whole conversation, there is one bit that sticks with me-

I could google it but I'm interested in your perceptions.

Anybody really interested would google it! He just wants to engage you. Mine does exactly the same stuff, anything to keep hold. They read us so well.

This stuff is so, so hard. It's a disorder. They do not think the same, they do not feel the same. They do not mean to hurt us. They are just trying to survive the only way they know how.

You've come such a long way RT. I don't think your ex is listening to you but I don't think you need me to tell you that either. I know my ex isn't listening to me so I've given up trying. Now we don't have much to talk about! I emailed him a link to the self acceptance project. I thought if he has it in him anywhere that he wants help this might help him. He actually watched the first one. Now he keeps touching his hand to his heart as that's a recommended thing on there. It just seems phoney which is a shame because it might not be but I don't believe him any more, on any level  

[Blessed0329]

Rose Tiger, wow. I hope he is able to do this very important work. Keep us posted, please.

[Rose Tiger]

"It takes being quiet, no distractions, started talking to little ‘me’.   Picturing me as a little girl in my mind’s eye.   Imagining me as a big sister that told her I was there, it’s ok now and that I would protect her."

Give her a hug for me,ok?

  Inner child says thank you and let's go to DQ for a peanut buster parfait.  She has a thing about chocolate... .  ?

[seeking balance]

wow - I am sure your emotions are a bit whirling with a conversation like this - take good time for yourself to process.

On a side note, wellbutin happened to turn my non-raging BPD into a total rager... .  she even said after it was out of her system, she knew she was acting aggressive.  Petulent child was therapists words.

[Changed4safety]

Wow.  *hugs* to you AND your inner little one, RT.  Thank you for sharing this.  You are a very wise woman, and have always offered me (and others here) such great advice and support.   

[Rose Tiger]

Oh Rose Tiger

I'm so sorry that you're going through this  

Do you know, out of the whole conversation, there is one bit that sticks with me-

I could google it but I'm interested in your perceptions.

Anybody really interested would google it! He just wants to engage you. Mine does exactly the same stuff, anything to keep hold. They read us so well.

This stuff is so, so hard. It's a disorder. They do not think the same, they do not feel the same. They do not mean to hurt us. They are just trying to survive the only way they know how.

You've come such a long way RT. I don't think your ex is listening to you but I don't think you need me to tell you that either. I know my ex isn't listening to me so I've given up trying. Now we don't have much to talk about! I emailed him a link to the self acceptance project. I thought if he has it in him anywhere that he wants help this might help him. He actually watched the first one. Now he keeps touching his hand to his heart as that's a recommended thing on there. It just seems phoney which is a shame because it might not be but I don't believe him any more, on any level  

I know, there is a lot of Eddie Haskell in those emails.  It's sad, there is nothing of the person I loved in there.  He is completely gone.  Or never existed.  Talking about sex with other women, that was a bit of a knife to the heart.  He doesn't know me at all, he has no level of caring towards me.  I was pretty down a couple days ago.  :)oing better today.  

[marbleloser]

She's welcome!... .  and she has good taste!

[Rose Tiger]

wow - I am sure your emotions are a bit whirling with a conversation like this - take good time for yourself to process.

On a side note, wellbutin happened to turn my non-raging BPD into a total rager... .  she even said after it was out of her system, she knew she was acting aggressive.  Petulent child was therapists words.

 My N sis took it to quit smoking and it turned her into a zombie, it was like talking to the undead.  That look in her eyes... .  shudder.  Her emotions were nonexistent, it really creeped me out.  I tried it to quit smoking and didn't like feeling that way, all pleasure from smoking eating anything that I find pleasurable was gone.  Also heard that anyone prone to anxiety issues should not take it, that would be me.  I imagine it will hit him like my sis, give him that monotone robotic personality.  My friend on the low dose prozac is still very human with normal emotions.  Merlot is my drug of choice and I might be on that for life.

[Rose Tiger]

Rose Tiger, wow. I hope he is able to do this very important work. Keep us posted, please.

 Me, too.  I've been praying for him for so long.  And I'm not around for him to point to as the problem anymore. 

[Rose Tiger]

Wow.  *hugs* to you AND your inner little one, RT.  Thank you for sharing this.  You are a very wise woman, and have always offered me (and others here) such great advice and support.   

Thanks for the kudos, Changed4safety.  I have to say this site has saved me from so much more heartache and what to expect.  When I got his email, I thought, shazzam, this is that moment of clarity that bpdfamily.com talks about and to not get too excited, it's called a 'moment' for a reason.