The Games They Play.

[Willingtolearn]

We have ALL been on the receiving end of the games pwBPD play on us. Both during the relationship and then through the recycling episodes. So come on, lets here about the games they played with you, and how you countered them.

[laelle]

I know you probably cant see it yet, but someone with BPD isnt playing a game.

The behavior that you see is the behavior of someone who has an incomplete defense system,  poor executive control, and lack of impulse control.

It is the behavior of someone who is mentally ill.

Its not intentional even tho I understand how you would feel that way.  The outward appearance SCREAMS intentional.

They behave as they do for a good reason.  SURVIVAL.  They will cease to emotionally exist without their crazy making survival skills.

They HAVE to do it.  That being said... .  does the how and why even matter?  They are what they are.

I try to focus on why I kept accepting the reality that their warped survival skills created as my own reality when I knew somewhere deep inside that it wasnt true.

[TheDude]

... .  does the how and why even matter?  They are what they are.

I try to focus on why I kept accepting the reality that their warped survival skills created as my own reality when I knew somewhere deep inside that it wasnt true.

Yep. Additionally, the process of detaching (a key word in the title of this sub-forum) involves an ever changing (though not always linear) direction of focus. Focus on self. Focus forward. Looking back serves it's natural purpose for a bit, but also equals rumination and staying stuck. Letting go... .  of both the bad and the good... .  is the direction to peace of mind.

[Willingtolearn]

I disagree to some extent to your belief they don't play games. They have the minds and action of children. What do children like to do most?  They love to play games.

How many times have we heard about the non moving on with their lives and then out of the blue their ex BPDgf or bf happens to make an appearance at the same restaurant etc. Is that not a "Game" to them, to try and get a reaction of some sort?

[VeryFree]

Games are something you play for fun.

I really don't believe that BPD do what they do for fun. I haven't seen my stbxw having fun doing her thing.

I did see her need to act like she did, but playing games: no, I don't think that. Not in the traditional meaning.

In his  a book 'Healing ADD' Dr. Amen has a chapter 'games ADD people play'.

He names the following 'games' (sorry for the big letters: copy paste):

LET'S HAVE A PROBLEM

I BET I CAN GET YOU TO YELL AT ME OR  HIT ME

MY THOUGHT ARE MORE TERRIBLE THAN YOUR THOUGHTS

IT'S YOUR FAULT

NO, NO WAY, NEVER, YOU CAN'T MAKE ME DO IT

I SAY THE OPPOSITE OF WHAT YOU SAY

I SAY THE FIRST THING THAT COMES TO  MIND

LET'S CALL IT EVEN

Google it and you'll find the texts.

[benny2]

Funny, but last night while I lay awake all night from him telling me he is still thinking about whether or not he wants to make this work with me, I was thinking about how it reminds me of a vidieo game. Exciting in the beginning and you can get close to winning, but all of a sudden, your right back at the start of the game. I know its not a game, and it is really sad, but right now I can't help but think he is playing games. I feel he can cWontrol some of the behavior, i.e. lies, cheating, manipulating, especially when they keep doing it over and over to the same person. I would have to write a book about the last 17 years since I met him.  Yes 17 years. I am truely an idiot.

[laelle]

Quite the opposite.  its because your a good person and you want to see the good in people.  The bad stuff gets split

He splits your good, and You split his bad. 

You will always end at 0 (the beginning)  the cycle has to end with them being abandoned. (even if they are the one who leaves you, they simply project it being your fault)  Its in their script. 

They are playing out there script while you play yours... .  

[LetItBe]

I really don't believe that BPD do what they do for fun. I haven't seen my stbxw having fun doing her thing.

I have also felt like I've been "played" like some kind of game.  When I try to look at things objectively, though, I must agree with VeryScared.  I haven't seen my uBPDxbf having actual fun doing his thing, either.  He seems absolutely tormented, actually.  It sucks for both of us.

[benny2]

 I have seen the torment he goes through. I have seen him spend hours walking in the woods behind his house with tears in his eyes. However, I have also seen the childlike behavior that comes out of him when he is blotting to do something to someone on his sh-- list. My ex husband included.

[delgato]

I know you probably cant see it yet, but someone with BPD isnt playing a game.

... .  

Its not intentional even tho I understand how you would feel that way.  The outward appearance SCREAMS intentional.

Agreed.

During our 1st go-around years ago, prior to my knowledge of BPD, she was doing all kinds of things that I thought she was doing intentionally. A lot of big-time game-playing, if you will, to try to mess with my heart & mind. How could somebody purposely be *that* cruel? Enough, already! Was really p|ssing me off. Eventually I blew up at her via email in a big way.

The next time I saw her in person shortly afterwards, she was devastated. We didn't speak much that night. I then had this overwhelming feeling in my gut that she *wasn't* just going totally overboard with intentionally "playing games," that this was *for real.* When I was driving home alone that night, I cried the whole way with that realization.

Since she wasn't really speaking to me, I had emailed her an apology. I remember one of the lines being, "I thought you were just 'effing' around all this time"... .  


And so began my internet research & subsequent discovery of BPD, all those years ago. :'(

[wanttoknowmore]

It depends how you define "games"

Yes, BPDs do lot of things intentionally and some not so  intentionally.

They choose their target based on targets naiveness and vulnerability, hook them up with their seductive ,charming styles, use them to meet their emotional needs and then, discard them easily to move on to a new host.

Yes, their is a conscious attempt to choose the "right" man. A  pwBPD who I pay $50 an hour to tell me the truth, said to me that she decides to dump the guy and then, starts acting flaky, not returning his calls and texts to frustrate him so she can blame him for whatever went wrong. She said she already made up her mind a few months ago to discard him but later, keeps throwing "a little bone" to him to keep him on the side ,just in case. When the guy behaves like a puppy licking her b... . u... . t... . t  she feels good. She dumps the current one only after finding a new one. These are confessions of a eduacted,high functioning but unemployed BPD who agreed to tell me honest truth for $50 an hour ,about her BPD to help me collect info about my book about BPD behaviors.

She sometimes feels bad for the guy but distracts herself with the new one and mostly forgets about the previous one at least in first few  months.

[benny2]

Wantoknowmore, I understand the whole concept your client was describing of how she would string one along for a spare even though she had someone new. I believe that is what myexbf does to me, but what I do not understand is why does he then keep returning to me. I mean for years. Thoughout his entire marriage he  chased me. Why can't he just leave me alone. Is it because I am volnerable to him? I have told him many many times to leave me alone but he never stops. I just don't get it.

[wanttoknowmore]

Benny2

there are different patterns for different BPDs. Some like to go back to familiar past host ,some never go back to ex after discarding.

Yours seem the first type. Yes, He has seen what works on you so in that sense he finds you vulnerable .He knows deeper down that its still possible to manipulate you even if you say leave me alone. BPDs are very intuitive.

Younger and prettier ones have lots of options so they are less likely to recycle.

My info souce ,also told me that if she discards someone, she feels less pain and if the guy discards her, she has unbearable pain. So, she pre- emptively

dumps.

[benny2]

Well this may sound vendictive, but I always dump him when I feel it coming as I cannot deal with rejection myself. Knowing that this may be causing him more pain actually makes me feel good. I know that sounds cruel, but he has done so many cruel things to me, I just want him to suffer if even a little bit. I always think it does not bother him at all and I just want him to feel a fraction of the pain he has caused me.

[angeldust1]

Funny, but last night while I lay awake all night from him telling me he is still thinking about whether or not he wants to make this work with me, I was thinking about how it reminds me of a vidieo game. Exciting in the beginning and you can get close to winning, but all of a sudden, your right back at the start of the game. I know its not a game, and it is really sad, but right now I can't help but think he is playing games. I feel he can cWontrol some of the behavior, i.e. lies, cheating, manipulating, especially when they keep doing it over and over to the same person. I would have to write a book about the last 17 years since I met him.  Yes 17 years. I am truely an idiot.

[angeldust1]

I have had so many games played on me,  I stop counting.  It's crazy... .  absolutely crazy until you realize it is a disorder,  but does it make it any easier.  I should say not!  I would like some one to explain to me though,  how they can turn this off when the see someone else that doesn't know them.  They are sweet and pleasant and you'd never think they were capable of doing what they do.  But how? How do they do it.  If it's not a game,  what is it?   

[benny2]

I don't know angeldust1. I knew my ex for 15 years before I moved in with him and although I knew he had issues with decissions, I never knew what he was capable of until I moved in with him. It was like I did not even know him. He can come across as the nicest, sweetest man until you get close to him. Aparently intimacy triggers them and turns them into this cruel, manipulative monster. He will never run out of victims as he is very irresistable. Frankly, it makes me sick.

[Lady31]

Games - depends on definition of "game."  I don't think they are sadists - so NO they don't do it for FUN.  However - they do "play games" a lot of times for some kind of "pay off".  Like to ease their out of control emotions, to quiet the feelings of shame and rejection.  To meet their own needs, etc.

Some nons, it seems, buy into the "disorder" to the extent that the BPD can't help what they do or don't know that they are doing it.  I think this is FALSE - and that it keeps nons stuck.  (It did me for some times.) Especially with the rescue/savior complex.  This belief makes the non feel even more sorry for the BPD and enables the non to "look past" a lot of the behavior of the BPD without setting clear boundaries and making them accountable.

Some say how can you expect someone who is "3 years old" emotionally to be accountable.  WELL... .  if my 3 year old bites another child I don't just say "Oh, she's three, she can't understand what she did or what she did was wrong."  NO WAY!  I teach her in no uncertain terms that that behavior is wrong and will not be tolerated.  And most the time when the 3 year old acts out and does it again, she KNOWS it's wrong, she is testing boundaries!  And usually the 3 year old that continues in this behavior does so because when it reared it's head, the parent ALLOWED it.  They learned they could!  

BPD's can control their reactions when other people are present - which means they are AWARE of their certain behaviors that are wrong or abusive AND that they can REFRAIN from acting in those ways.  They CHOSE to behave certain ways behind close doors because they know they CAN.  And they continue playing back and forth games because they have tested us and know they can.

This is not always the case - I think there are some low functioning BPDs that cannot control themselves.  However - I think it's just too hard for many nons to believe that other people can do things KNOWINGLY and PURPOSELY.

[benny2]

Mine continues to lie about his affairs even though I caught him redhanded. He will stand bold faced in front of me and tell me he has not been with anyone else but me for 2 years. Even though he knows that I know the truth, its so important to him that I believe he has been faithfull. I don't know why. Maybe because he knows I have been faithfull? Maybe because he figures if he admits to it, that would be the icebreaker for me? He also goes on and on about how his exwife would constantly accuse him of cheating and he was. Does he convince himself that he is innocent. I don't get it.

[LoveNotWar]

I didn't see my ex's behavior as a game. It is clear to me now everything he did was to gain control.

The need for control may come from fear of abandonment or from the need to have power plain and simple.

What ever it was, he was in emotional pain and I couldn't make it better for him even by sacrificing my own joy.

At my worst moments I'm angry, when I'm feeling grounded I feel compassion for my ex. i would hate to go through life with BPD.

[kampuniform]

Last past the post here, but as Laelle mentioned, it isn’t a game.  The behaviour is a consequence of no object constancy/dichotomous thinking/no executive control. 

The “Immaturity” manifests itself in the ego defenses used to subdue their distress provoked by a threatening or uncomfortable reality.  “Immature” because the ego defenses used by the borderline thwart the person’s ability to cope with their problems effectively.  Splitting, denial, idealization, these are all primitive methods of coping with anxiety.

The quickest way to move beyond this experience is by not personalizing the borderline’s behaviour.

I have a great deal of sympathy for my ex, and it wasn’t her fault that she had dodgy parents.

[refuge]

if the boarderline has enough self awareness to KNOW they are playing games- they aren't a real borderline.

[laelle]

I have had so many games played on me,  I stop counting.  It's crazy... .  absolutely crazy until you realize it is a disorder,  but does it make it any easier.  I should say not!  I would like some one to explain to me though,  how they can turn this off when the see someone else that doesn't know them.  They are sweet and pleasant and you'd never think they were capable of doing what they do.  But how? How do they do it.  If it's not a game,  what is it?  

Its an interpersonal relationship disorder.  Only those that are close to them get bit.  The exception there is poor impulse control... . most everyone from time to time gets a taste of it.

[laelle]

Mine continues to lie about his affairs even though I caught him redhanded. He will stand bold faced in front of me and tell me he has not been with anyone else but me for 2 years. Even though he knows that I know the truth, its so important to him that I believe he has been faithfull. I don't know why. Maybe because he knows I have been faithfull? Maybe because he figures if he admits to it, that would be the icebreaker for me? He also goes on and on about how his exwife would constantly accuse him of cheating and he was. Does he convince himself that he is innocent. I don't get it.

More than likely he is projecting his own "badies"on her, and mirroring the "goodies" of you.

My ex use to call his ex girlfriend abusive.  She hated him at the end.  I have come to the decision based on personal experience that it was him who was abusive.

[bb12]

Looking back serves it's natural purpose for a bit, but also equals rumination and staying stuck. Letting go... .  of both the bad and the good... .  is the direction to peace of mind.

Yep - and rumination & obsession are our own poor coping skills

We keep the focus on them to distract from our own feeling and pain

Real freedom comes after examining those also... .  So we have a true picture of them & their stuff; us and our stuff; and then learn from it and let it all go

Bb12

[Peterpan]

As I look back now right to the beginning and remember the things that he did, I have to say YES, they do play games, but to them it isn't games, to them it is a mixture of testing your loyalty, feeling 'overwhelmed' because of the obsessive 'love' thoughts they are feeling, 'trapped' because they are in fear of becoming engulfed, and FEAR, yes there is a lot of fear in there.

I remember the first 'date' where we talked, I asked him why he had followed me, made it clear in his actions about his 'feelings' towards me, but never actually 'told me'

My first  hit me right there and then when he said " I was petrified you was playing me", yes, I had been manipulated into making the first move, but only out of my own frustration! Was it then a game on his part? When he said those words to me,he really meant it!

Those 'subconcious ' words pricked my ears up and felt like and instant 'projection' to me.

I had many many more to come!

I have lost count of all the things he said and did to me, but most of those things felt like 'games' to me.

I have said outright to him "Stop playing games with me"     He always answers that he isnt playing any games... .  and he ALWAYS actually means it!

A young child does not know they are playing 'games' they only know that they have to say and do certain things to bring people on their side. They cannot bear the thought of the person they rely on most to think anything bad of them, and will say/do anything to keep that person's love/ affirmation/validation.

If they do something wrong or 'naughty' and a parent scolds them for it, they automatically will firstly try to deny it (if you didn't actually see it)   if that doesn't work, then an excuse will come about, so and so made me do it, or i did it because,,etc, etc.

They learn at a very young age just what they need to do to keep mother /father on their side.

Unfortunately for people with BPD, this will never change, they are stunted at that age (with their emotions and logical reasoning)

We on the other hand as NONs... .  grew up, we have normal reactions to our emotions, we spend our time being tormented with frustration at the hands of the pwBPD.

To sum it all up though, I really don't believe that they play games intentionally in their minds.

They know they are doing what they do, but they do not know or understand how their lies, contradictions and back and forth behaviour affects US.

In short, they learn at a very young age exactly what they need to do/say to manipulate people on to their own 'good' side, so as to be forgiven, believed, loved, and have the matter dropped, even if it means lying, deceiving, conning.

They do it not to conciously dupe you, but as an instant defence mechanism.

[maria1]

It feels like games but it's not games. For my ex it's the only way he knows how to survive. He will turn up in my favorite restaurants. I have said I am sick of his games. But I know he is just living his life according to his disorder. Don't criticise a frenchman for speaking in his own language.

Want2knowmore- that's some game you are playing with your BPD person. I wouldn't believe a word she tells you. If it were me I would make up any old crap and keep taking your money. And I don't have BPD. (I wouldn't let anybody pay me for anything like that just to be clear!)

[Validation78]

It's tempting to blame the behaviors of pwBPD on a game, however, difficult as it is to accept, much of the multifaceted behaviors we experience with them, is beyond their control, as many of you have aptly pointed out. The very term personality disorder implies that the problems are deeply engrained in their personalities, and are simply a part of them. It's why PDs are difficult to treat since what comes naturally as a way of being is difficult to recognize as harmful or wrong, and changing to doing something else requires a tremendous commitment, which as we know, is not something mentally ill people are prepared to make, since in their warped sense of perception, everyone around them has a problem except them.

I'm with Love Not War here. Much of what they do is to gain control, since they are clearly afraid of not being in control, and their emotional pain is beyond what we can imagine. I have my moments too, where I am furious with stbx, however, more often, I feel a great deal of compassion for him, unbeknownst to him, since I appear to be cold and mean by being NC. pwBPD live a nightmare existence that I wouldn't wish on anyone!

Best Wishes,

Val78     

[wanttoknowmore]

Maria1,

Your words of caution are well taken. But, I am not believing what the paid info souce tells me. I am collecting data from these paid BPDs to provide info about what goeson in their minds. I match this data and compare it with what is there in standard literature about BPD. Its very close to what paid sources tell me.

My issue is that I mostly understand what pwBPD's do... .  I only partly understand why they do what they do... . I don't understand at all how much their behaviour is under conscious control... . this last part is crucial for me to know.  Jodi Arias case ,also, rests on this crucial fact ... . i.e. how much control she had when she was stabbing Travis? Can dissociation cause complete loss

of control even for as complex an act as shooting and stabbing.

My journey is to know the root causes and whether  how much control they have on what they do?  Forgiveness depends on this factor.

[Chazz]

Games - depends on definition of "game."  I don't think they are sadists - so NO they don't do it for FUN.  However - they do "play games" a lot of times for some kind of "pay off".  Like to ease their out of control emotions, to quiet the feelings of shame and rejection.  To meet their own needs, etc.

Some nons, it seems, buy into the "disorder" to the extent that the BPD can't help what they do or don't know that they are doing it.  I think this is FALSE - and that it keeps nons stuck.  (It did me for some times.) Especially with the rescue/savior complex.  This belief makes the non feel even more sorry for the BPD and enables the non to "look past" a lot of the behavior of the BPD without setting clear boundaries and making them accountable.

Some say how can you expect someone who is "3 years old" emotionally to be accountable.  WELL... .  if my 3 year old bites another child I don't just say "Oh, she's three, she can't understand what she did or what she did was wrong."  NO WAY!  I teach her in no uncertain terms that that behavior is wrong and will not be tolerated.  And most the time when the 3 year old acts out and does it again, she KNOWS it's wrong, she is testing boundaries!  And usually the 3 year old that continues in this behavior does so because when it reared it's head, the parent ALLOWED it.  They learned they could!  

BPD's can control their reactions when other people are present - which means they are AWARE of their certain behaviors that are wrong or abusive AND that they can REFRAIN from acting in those ways.  They CHOSE to behave certain ways behind close doors because they know they CAN.  And they continue playing back and forth games because they have tested us and know they can.

This is not always the case - I think there are some low functioning BPDs that cannot control themselves.  However - I think it's just too hard for many nons to believe that other people can do things KNOWINGLY and PURPOSELY.

I agree with everything you said, Lady31.

They rationalize their game playing because they function at an immature level. But, I don't doubt they know they're doing it. In my BPD partner's case, the rationalizations would slip for a brief moment, but always reemerged firmly in place when it suited her. She would say one thing one moment, another, the next. I could actually see her turning me from black to white, and then back again, within seconds. It was grotesque and devastating.

I am reminded of something... .  The Ex's 8 year old son would shoplift every time he was in a store. The Ex NEVER actually disciplined him for this because she didn't want to shame him (?) - so the behavior continued. The one time I GENTLY called him to task for the shoplifting - I didn't want to be accused of sanctioning it to the store security - she went nuts on me. She accused me of traumatizing her son ? Looking back on that and other situations with her son - like the time he intentionally, and with impunity, shot me in the face with a toy arrow just missing my eye - I realize that she was projecting her angst on her son by not holding him accountable for his behavior. She has a very vicarious relationship with her child bordering on Munchausen by proxy. (Rather than looking to her poor parenting, she keeps dragging him to specialists to find out why he acts they way he does.) She projects all of her childhood angst on him even when it doesn't apply - shame, shyness, anxiety, social awkwardness, etc... . It was, and is, very creepy. I fear she's rearing a sociopath.

All of this is to say... .  Denial/rationalizations/et al are the worst kind of game-playing with other people's lives and sanity.  It doesn't matter if it's driven by emotional dysfunction or not. The person on the receiving end is PLAYED.