What would you do if this happened to you?

[Chosen]

So... .  something that could potentially lead to a ragefest happened last weekend.  No ragefest happened.  But I am not sure if I handled it well.  Tell me what you would have done if you were in my position?

Background: It was Friday.  I usually go to a church group after work.  uBPDh almost never go (because it's a group from "my" church, not his), and sometimes he would say he's planning to go but fact is he has only been about 3 times and hasn't gone in the past 9 mths at least.  That's ok for me.  But sometimes when I don't go in the past, he got angry with me, because he believes other people from the church will think it is him who told me not to go.  So basically I go most weeks unless I'm too tired, and he does his own stuff.

What happened: last Friday, it was business as usual.  But near the time I get off work, he texted me and said he will not go to the church group as he's feeling sad.  I asked him a little "why", then told him there's stuff at home he can have.  He then got angry, and texted back "I said I'm feeling sad and all my wife does is to tell me there's stuff I can eat at home."  I then asked over the phone if he wants me to go back home to be with him, he did not give me any "yes" or "no" answer (which I understood as "yes", and said ok, if that's what he wants, I will go back home.  He was angry that I had to ask him, I should just do it to which I told him, "I did not know what you wanted, sometimes when I just do stuff it turns out that's not what you want.  Now that I know you want me to go back I will not go to the meeting and come back."

Then I went back home and did stuff with him (had dinner, watched a movie), and it was all good.  But right before we go to bed, he complained and said, “You should apologise to me.  You should not say I don’t know what you want, you should just do it.  Stop having so many excuses.”  For anything I don’t do well (even if he hasn’t given instructions), he blames it on me having excuses.  I felt upset but didn’t say much.  I said “sorry I wasn’t sensitive to your needs enough, he said it’s not about sensitive-ness.  I just didn’t want to argue.  And then the next morning he was fine.

I guess what bothered me was:

-   I can never do things right if I don’t have instructions from him.  It’s one thing when he tells me what he wants and I refuse to do them; it’s a completely different issue when I’m just expected to “fix” everything. 

-   “Doomed if I do and doomed if I don’t”: When he wants me there, if I go to the church meeting, I’m a terrible and selfish wife.  When he wants me at the meeting and I don’t want to go, I’m also selfish as people will think my husband tells me not to go.  It’s all in his head!  Nobody thinks that!  (And then he doesn’t like the fact that people don’t automatically treat him as a friend when he’s there… he hasn’t seen them for 9 mths, what can he expect?  But that’s another thing for another day…)

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[qwaszx]

my thoughts on it(please note that they are my personal thoughts and i dont actually know) is that he's projecting his negative feeling on to you because maybe he feels badly about not just goin with you to church.

Also maybe he feels like he should be the one apologizing to you for getting you to stay, he cant own up to his side of things and he doesn’t know what how to handle the way he's feeling.

one thing i know is that(at least for my friend) when shes in that mood, there is nothing i can do or say to make anything better. nothing i say is "right" or good enough, i always end up being self-centered even if i've just been doing everything humanly possible for her, running around like a chicken with my head cut off, nothing pleases her, because she is contradicting everything shes said. she doesn’t know what she wants and has to many feelings rushing through her head, and start painting me as "bad" regardless of anything i have or havent done.

[qwaszx]

oh! also you can try the SET system. sometimes it helps.

[jedicloak]

That sounds hard - I'm sorry you're going through that.

What I can offer is what I've learned after doing it wrong for SO long. I am not responsible for fixing someone else's mood (sadness, etc.) If there is a particular issue, or incident, we support each other - which it sounds like you tried by sharing dinner and a movie. But unless you're in the circus, you don't come with functioning crystal ball. It's not your job or ability to read someone else's mind.

They need to ask you for what they need and then you get a choice as to whether you make the effort to meet that need. This is all of that "boundary" stuff you hear about on this site. You didn't do anything to apologize for from what I read, and ideally he would thank you for being considerate/compassionate enough to come home and make an effort to cheer him up from his sadness. That's my take.

[Chosen]

They need to ask you for what they need and then you get a choice as to whether you make the effort to meet that need. This is all of that "boundary" stuff you hear about on this site. You didn't do anything to apologize for from what I read, and ideally he would thank you for being considerate/compassionate enough to come home and make an effort to cheer him up from his sadness. That's my take.

They are living in the land of Oz, that's why.  I'm not even asking for him to thank me.  Just that I don't get blamed for not reading his mind, right?  Once I knew he wanted me to come home I did.  I didn't say "but this is the time I go to church", I didn't argue.  And that's not good enough.  In the past I would make the choice not to do something that may please him, and that was my bad.  And now that I do something to try and fit his need, I'm still not good enough.  Sometimes I want to say to him what you said too, that he should be thanking me instead of lecturing me on how to not make excuses.  But of course, that makes things worse and I don't want to undo the things I did, so I kept my mouth shut and came here instead.

[briefcase]

I sympathize, but I'm going to be a little tough on you too.   Hope you don't mind.   

I think you should have told him that you had a church meeting and gone to church instead of coming home because he felt "sad."  There was no blow up because you appeased him to keep the peace.  Your reward - he demanded an apology from you.  This is an unhealthy dynamic (I lived it for a long, long time too). 

You've got to start focusing on letting go of his emotions.  When he's feeling sad he needs to find a way to resolve that - not expect you to take care of it.  Scurrying around to cater to him - worse, being asked to guess what he needs - is a long, slow train ride to resentment, codependence and depression. 

At some point, you are going to have to reclaim your life and weather the "storm" of his negative reactions and emotions.  What's the worst that could have happened if you told him you'd see him after church?  He'd feel angry (instead of sad) - still his issue.  This is easier said than done - but it needs to be done.      

[Cloudy Days]

I recently read the book Codependent No More and realized that I try to look into my crystal ball all the time to appease my husband. He says I'm hungry and I jump up and say "what do you want?" to make it for him. Even though he didn't ask me to make something for him, I just took it apon myself to make it for him. Doing something for him without him asking is playing into his mental games. He didn't ask you to come home and be with him so he isn't going to say thank you for it.

I would of said this to the text.

I'm sorry your feeling sad, that sucks honey. Maybe we can watch a movie when I get home from church group tonight. (Or something else that he likes)

If my husband asked me outright to stay home and it wasn't a big deal for me then I probably would. But I would wait till he asked.

[maryy16]

No real advice, just sympathy. I used to get the "you should have known to do that. Any normal person would have" all the time.  And I found that there is no point in trying to dispute his claim because, like you said, they are in OZ.

Unfortunately, I have not found a way around this type of situation when my H is "in a mood".  Nowadays I just do what I think is best for the situation, knowing full well that I'm gonna get in trouble no matter which option I choose.  

Like we all know, it's like dealing with a small child... .  you have to make choices knowing that a tantrum is inevitable.

[byasliver]

I'm going to give another vote for using SET no matter what your choice was. Our pwBPD need to feel heard (Support), understood/normalized (Empathy) but they also need for us to keep to our boundaries and stay "grounded" (Truth). Doing this more and more has made such a difference with my r/s with my uBPDh: when he knows I have truly heard his feelings, reassured him that his feelings are okay (his feelings are okay even if they aren't rational or the resulting action was inappropriate), and that I will remain strong in keeping boundaries that make things clearer for all of us, it gives him the love, support and clarity that is lacking in his own mind. Remember, no matter how hurt, confused, scared we feel, most likely our pwBPD is feeling something a 1,000 times stronger.

And   - sounds like a tough night! Hope things are improving since then.

[daylily]

Hi Chosen,

As usual, very similar dynamic at my house.  I very frequently get comments about how he anticipates the needs of other people and he's the only one around who considers others.  When I try to get information from him about what he wants or needs, I get either of two responses: (1) if I was a kind and considerate person like he is, I would already know; or (2) why do I always want him to make decisions, and why can't I make one for a change?      The irony is lost on him that he thinks of me by doing mundane things like putting air in my car tires, then comes into the house and berates my parenting skills.  Sure, he thought of me, but if he was really considering what is best for me, he wouldn't hurt my feelings.  

I agree with briefcase that we shouldn't change our lives according to their needs and whims because we'd just be blowing around aimlessly.  I think waverider once made the analogy to walking a dog (gotta love waverider's analogies).  If we allow the dog to lead us every aimless place it wants to go (sniffing poop, peeing on a tree, etc.) we'd never get where we need to go.     Understanding the concept?  Got it.  Implementing it?  Another matter altogether... .     We're so used to walking on eggshells and we've been conditioned by our H's to cater to their needs instead of our own.  Now we just need to figure out how to break out of that (and in my case, break out of that without being consumed by anger).

  :)aylily

[bruceli]

   We're so used to walking on eggshells and we've been conditioned by our H's to cater to their needs instead of our own.  Now we just need to figure out how to break out of that (and in my case, break out of that without being consumed by anger).   :)aylily

Unfortunately, when we do, there is usually hell to pay.

[Wrongturn1]

... .  This is an unhealthy dynamic (I lived it for a long, long time too). 

You've got to start focusing on letting go of his emotions.  When he's feeling sad he needs to find a way to resolve that - not expect you to take care of it.  Scurrying around to cater to him - worse, being asked to guess what he needs - is a long, slow train ride to resentment, codependence and depression. 

At some point, you are going to have to reclaim your life and weather the "storm" of his negative reactions and emotions.  What's the worst that could have happened if you told him you'd see him after church?  He'd feel angry (instead of sad) - still his issue.  This is easier said than done - but it needs to be done.      

I was getting ready to type a response, but then I saw that Briefcase had already said what I was going to say.  So ditto what Briefcase said.

[Grey Kitty]

A lot of good advice here already... .  I just want to say one thing:

It is healthy to ask for what you want and/or need from the people in your life.

It is not healthy to expect people guess what you want and do it before you ask.

It is not healthy to try to guess what people what so you can do it without asking them.

We may not always be there. Our partners may also not be there. They may not even believe it. However it sure works better the direct way especially if everybody does it.

[jedicloak]

I sympathize, but I'm going to be a little tough on you too.   Hope you don't mind.   

I think you should have told him that you had a church meeting and gone to church instead of coming home because he felt "sad."  There was no blow up because you appeased him to keep the peace.  Your reward - he demanded an apology from you.  This is an unhealthy dynamic (I lived it for a long, long time too). 

You've got to start focusing on letting go of his emotions.  When he's feeling sad he needs to find a way to resolve that - not expect you to take care of it.  Scurrying around to cater to him - worse, being asked to guess what he needs - is a long, slow train ride to resentment, codependence and depression. 

At some point, you are going to have to reclaim your life and weather the "storm" of his negative reactions and emotions.  What's the worst that could have happened if you told him you'd see him after church?  He'd feel angry (instead of sad) - still his issue.  This is easier said than done - but it needs to be done.      

Oh briefcase, you are GOOD. I needed to hear this too! I need this tattooed on my forehead and heart! Thanks for keeping us real!

[Chosen]

Thanks all.

briefcase, I completely agree with what you said.  I don't think I did "the best", as in, what I did wasn't the best I could've done in that situation, given hindsight.

And obviously being asked to apologise when I appeased him did not feel good.

Cloudy Days,

I agree that if he had asked then it isn't a big problem to skip the meeting.  But having to guess makes me upset.  And I could've never guess right, anyway. 

daylily,

I completely understand and I go through those same responses all the time too.  Yeah he's the only considerate person in the house.  He is the only considerate person he knows, in fact.  He doesn't take into account that I'm vocal about my wants/ needs and he isn't (and the fact that whatever I try to do to suit his needs, 90% of the time it's "wrong", and in his world, my intentions don't count at all).

I *know* SET, but I think at that moment I was too confused and lost (because I either go to church or go home, and I'm stuck in the middle) and I needed to do something... .  I should probably sooth/ sympathise more... .  

[rollercoaster24]

Hi all.

I can empathise totally! My uBP asks for my opinion/advice/support/backup on what he should do about living with his 'nasty *********elderly parents, yet again, (BP is 45 no less!).

Everyone is his enemy by the way, and he is the victim all around.

If I give my opinion I am damned, if I offer my support, or advice, even backup, I am shot down, interrupted, and usually 80% of his communication style is that of a snarling, snapping dog.

Today, I listened, as usual, validated his feelings, and finally, after he ignored 10 requests to politely but assertively end our call for now, (as we both had obligations to deal with) I finally said, 'I am sure you will handle things the best way you can, and if that no longer works for you, then I guess you will have to come up with some other options, I am sure you will figure it out, and understand you can only do what is humanly possible given your circumstances at the moment'.

Of course, I know that this drama will play out waaaay longer yet, (it has only been 13 months this time, so far) I guess I can only be relieved that I am not living with him for now, as I know it would be me he was painting black more often, if it was.   I do pity his parents however, and often wonder if it will be the death of them thanks to all the stress caring for their son provides.

At any rate, I am gently enforcing more boundaries of my own, it hasn't gone down so well, but I am going to keep doing so, and who knows what may come of it, at this point, I am too hurt to even care.

I feel like I am in a pseudo relationship anyway.