For the love of money...

[flynavy]

It is interesting that my exBPD/NPD loved to be with men with $.  I believe this must be the NPD side of her disorder.  The money gave her prominence, stature, things/stuff.  When I first met her, she told me moved out from home at 18 after graduating from high school because there were too many hands in the "cookie jar".  She wanted her own!  She would do anything for money.  She got married to her first husband because he came from a wealthy family even though he beat her... .  her sisters said he wasn't good looking... .  not bad but not handsome.  Married second husband... . he was shorter and not ugly but again, not someone you'd think she would be with because she was cutsie, perfect little body, voice etc.  Left him when business went bankrupt... .  even had 4 kids with him.  Engaged to next guy probablybecause his family had very successful family business... .  he was a mechanic and her sisters said she was embarrassed by that... .  didn't bring him around much or even talk about him.  With her current bf for 8 years... .  guess what he is wealthy.  Almost married a a man 15 years older than her cuz he was wealthy but his kids stopped it.  I was engaged to this woman twice... .  first time... .  she left me after a 2 week engagement for her bf, whom she never left, asked her to marry him.  She told her sisters when asked how could you leave your so-called Love of your life.  She said I didn't want to be 70 years with a blanket around me, looking at me and wondering how they were gonna stay warm.  But re-engaged with me for the sex after 2 months... .  i never knew she was engaged... .  just new she didn't want to be engaged to me.  She never gave me a reason when she broke up first engagement other than she had so much going on in her life and she was confused!. 

So is it the Narcissist side that goes after the money so she can play her trophy wife role?  She can never actually close out a relationship.  She always has some tie to all of the men in her life.  When i called off the wedding my almost brother-in-law said I never cared for her "life-style"... .  just follow the money!  Not that I am poor by any stretch of the imagination... .  i just didn't have the nest egg she wanted/needed... .  but she always came back for the sex.  So guess I... .  and i'm sure others... .  was used for her sexual intensity she needed and had others for the security... .  compartmentalization?

[LoveNotWar]

What does the money mean to her? Security? Power? She's just trying to meet a need by " following the money".

Just like she's trying to meet a need with the sex, what does the sex mean to her? Comfort? Sensory stimulation?

Do I make it sound like she's just using people to get her own needs met?

I think in essence that's what a NPD does... .  it's part of the disorder. How sad that she doesn't feel like the power to meet her needs is within herself.

So she hurts others to get what she needs/wants.

[MontyD]

Hi again Flynavy  (old timer),

I was doing a lot of reading here tonight and some of "2010" posts were really enlightening, so I checked out his/her profile and called up all the posts he / she had made here, more than 700 ! 

If there is one person on these boards who knows BPD, this is it.

Here is the link:    https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?action=profile;u=38193;sa=showPosts;start=0

It is a must read.  Just go thru the posts, you will fid lots of answers to your Questions.

Hope you are doing OK.

Monty

[flynavy]

Lovenotwar... .  now add the BPD side to this and you can see the hell I was in and didn't realize it at first because of the sex, telling me everything I wanted and needed to hear after my wifes death.

It still amazes me that she was able to live two lives/relationships with me and another guy... .  and from what I now understand, able to still meet new prey from time to time... .  dinners... .  coffee etc.  I guess this combo BPD/NPD adds twists to your std BPD. Anyone else been with someone who was having several relationships at the same time.

Knowing this now in some strange/weird way seems to make it easier to detach... .  still hard!

[MontyD]

Ah Ha, you are still on line.

"2010" wrote about that, having extras on the back burner. Reading that about half hour ago. 

I would say "2010" is some sort of Psychologist, definately been in the business, lots of quotes from other authors, Phd's etc.

Monty.

[flynavy]

Monty... .  today is OK... .  I did drink too much yesterday and that is never a good thing.  I miss the love my wife and I had tremendously!  Thanks for the direction to the 2010 posts.  My son just called me... .  we're going to the Delaware River for some fly fishing for the day!  Never did I think my life would look like this at this stage.  I grew up in a tough part of the city... .  Adult child of Alcoholic... .  consider myself really street smart... .  goes to show you how good these BPD/NPD women really are!

Thanks again!

[MontyD]

Have a wonderful day.

I went and hit golf balls, felt like painting a face on some of them !

Friday night here, 10:30 PM

Monty

[flynavy]

Monty... .  are you kiddin me... .  I have felt/experienced the Narcissistic rage the 2010 posts talk about.  I agree... .  the person responding sounds like a professional in the field of mental disorders.  I did experience her rage even after I exposed her lifestyle and called off the wedding.  OK I'm old but in great shape... .  strong... .  but when i exposed her I had all i could do to ward off her physical attacks... .  when I did she resorted to spitting in my face and insinuating stuff about my wife.  I think this combo of BPD/NPD is dangerous because they can become very physical when in a rage.

[MontyD]

There are wondreful posts. I noticed he / she never spoke his own situation. I gathered he was here to help.

Off you go, have a great day with your son, and forget about this crap for a while.

I'm on the southern End of the Great Barrier Reef, lots of fishing here !

Catch up later !

Monty.

[flynavy]

To all... .  I have a police report when my exBPD/NPD's other guy came to my house at 12:30AM... .  knowing what I now know about this combo disorder... .  particularly the rage when rejected... .  should I get an order of protection... .  or will this just set her off worse?

[MontyD]

My experience was " do not to escalate ", walk away, give them no place to vent.  Remember, "no contact"  That would include him.  He is now part of her !

Monty

[MontyD]

I found this post of "2010".  Makes sense ?

If I had anything to add, it would be about the still married part.  That's like flashing a neon sign over your head that says "use me" to a BPD'r. Attachment ambivalence is a hallmark of BPD. 

Married people are less of an abandonment threat to the BPD'r while providing a busload of adoration for their damaged souls.  In her mind you are taken and not a threat to her already fragile abandonment issues but you have a neediness for her that she can use to her advantage. This gives her great satisfaction, even greater than the satisfaction of having a relationship with an *available,* unmarried partner. To be with a partner who's actually available; the abandonment risk that's triggered is way too frightening. She will choose 'safe' relationships that have no chance of moving beyond the casual. That way she gets to be Femme fatale who swoops in and rescues married men from tired, worn out commitments.

I know it hurts, but you're still being married is a reason for the relationship. BPD'rs have no boundaries. This might be a good time to establish your own. You need to see her perception of you as needy or less powerful than herself as she holds the marriage over you. The minute you get divorced and are available, you have power that is frightening to the BPD'r. You are actually available and you could leave her. You're damned if you do get divorced and damned if you don't. Either way, you have some ties to cut and boundaries to establish before you can move along with anything.

Monty

[flynavy]

I was thinking restraining order against her... .  not him... .  guess that would set even drive more rage from her... .  which I don't need/want!  Guess a restraining order is like having contact... .  maybe just accepting... .  walking away... .  

Any way... .  close to fishing time

[MontyD]

That's it, use your head !

Go fishin'

Monty

[wanttoknowmore]

Flynavy,

Interesting topic. My ExBPD had the same issue. She used to say that Even If she marries an old, wealthy man I will remain her  BF. She once asked me if I know  a really old ,rich guy who she can marry and share some of his  money later with me. I used to think she is just joking as she is a jovial and  funny kind of woman. May be it was a joke to make me laugh. She is in 40s.

It will be interesting to see in future if she really does that.

I am NC for 6 weeks and have no intention to contact at all.

[MontyD]

wanttoknowmore,

Did you read the post I copied from "2010's" post ?  Don't think it will happen !

Monty

[lhd981]

Flynavy,

I always enjoy reading your posts; you seem like you have a ton of life experience! I still have a ways to go, myself

My first BPD exgf was a "sweet, simple midwestern 'gal" with a drawl and dimples - aw shucks! Being from the northeast, this was quite "exotic" and endearing for me. At the time, I was in a very long-term relationship that had fizzled out years ago, but we were together due to convenience and a myriad of other bad reasons. In fact, everyone thought we'd never leave each other because of how ingrained that attachment had become.

I was fortunate to have come into a great deal of financial success during this time, and the BPD woman saw that a mile away from the moment we "reconnected" on facebook (we had actually known each other from online when we were both much, much younger, but reconnected due to a mutual friend). In hindsight, she played the sweet waif card. We were just friends, of course (and nothing EVER happened), but I decided to finally gather up the courage to leave my long term girlfriend of nearly 8 years to pursue a relationship with this new woman. It was a move that many of my friends supported. The sex, of course, hooked me in like nothing else. It was otherworldly. Nothing - NOTHING - was off limits. Of course, during this time, she'd begin dropping little hints about her dire financial situation. Long story short: I moved her out from the middle of the country (literally) all the way to the northeast with me; then the jealousy began. The accusations. The lies. It was beyond crazy. But that's a whole other story.

One of the pervasive themes with her paranoia and accusations towards me was "Well, you cheated on your long term girlfriend with me! How do I know you won't cheat on ME with somebody?" - and many other variations of this. Of course, it would later come out that she had quite the sexual history; in that she preferred much older married men. She was in her late 20s (two years younger than me, actually), but preferred married men in their 40s and 50s even. By her own admission, she was used to being "the other woman". Again, she used incredible sex to lure them all in.

A hallmark of BPD is impulsivity and shopping sprees are common. We ended up having a joint credit card and she used it extensively. In fact, our enormous condo was full of crap that we'd never use; clothes that we'd never wear; food that we'd never eat. It was a certain lifestyle she was looking for and I had fallen for it: hook, line and sinker.

I must've spent a good $60k on her/us in the period of about a year - this does not include normal "budget" items; this was purely fluff, not to mention many of her bills. I eventually go so fed up with her insane allegations and paranoia that I sent her packing back home (and gave her a very generous amount to get her back on her feet). The last I heard, she's with a wealthy, older man now. Go figure.

Hoping to head out to the Delaware water gap myself in a bit and do some hiking (not a very good fisher). It's a beautiful day - enjoy it!

[flynavy]

Ihd981... .  thanks for the complement... .  I guess I have been around the block a few times... .  but guess what... .  I was still taken in by a sick woman.  It still amazes me that for the men in particular who have had a BPD/NPD experience teh single most similarity is the sex is over the top.  I did things with my ex BPD/NPD that men fantasize about... .  downright pornographic which doesn't make me feel so good in retrospect.  Add that this all happened when I was 58... .  been all over the world in the Navy... .  but truly the sex was over the top.  OK... . she found my weakness.  But isn't it amazing that when the sex escalated to the pornographic phase... .  she was in her element and I was not... .  somethoing just didn't feel right sometimes but she would say that was so sexy!... .  If its too good to be true... .  IT IS!

I'm probably out about $25K over 2 years... .  oh well... .  its just $... .  rather have my sanity, my dignity, and my integrity in tact!

[lhd981]

You hit the nail on the head! When the sex escalated to the pornographic phase, she was in her element and you were not! Almost like she's done this... .  before. Yes, my first BPDex was precisely like that. The second one (and the reason I'm here) was very similar as well. She used to say "my mouth goes wherever it wants to" - and she was NOT kidding.

I just turned 32, but I've been around the block myself a few times. I'm a reasonably successful entrepreneur with a great circle of friends/support network, but I completely got sucked into this world twice, with two different women.

Having read many stories from people here like yourself who are nearly twice my age and have had more than double my life experience being taken in by sick men and women alike, I feel relieved - like I shouldn't be beating myself up for it as much as I have been - but also scared; it can truly happen to ANYONE.

While both of my BPD exes were pretty and charming - one was street smart and the other was book smart - it was the sex that made everything. The whole relationship more-or-less revolved around it. They both kept track of what we were and weren't doing. I enjoy sex as much as, if not more than, the next guy but don't consider myself to be much of a looker, so I was surprised and flattered when two pretty women both showed such sexual interest in me. Both were wild and uninhibited. The first one would wear all kinds of dress-up outfits - she prided herself on her vast collection of outfits. She'd send me pictures of herself in them while I would be with clients in hopes that I'd hurry home in between for a quickie. She'd also make comments like "Baby, we've done it X times this week... .  do you think I can get a night off as I'm tired?" (as if it was all my idea! she was the sexually dominant one). As I said before, she'd keep track of how many times we'd do it for that week. But also how many orgasms she had and so on. It didn't matter what we did, but her orgasm was paramount. Later on, I realized she was trying to get pregnant. Which, thankfully, was a red flag that no part of me could ignore and I quickly put a stop to that, but without a very tense month and many pregnancy tests. One thing I will say is that while she was into the act of sex with the enthusiasm of a porn star, there was also a very clear disconnect. It wasn't loving, romantic sex - she liked it rough and sometimes even degrading.

The second BPD ex, and the reason I'm here, came onto me with more of a romantic/classical angle. When she realized that I could go for multiple times in a row, she began to keep track and would say things like "oh, you only had X orgasms there... .  what's the matter?". Since I was head over heels in love with her, I genuinely made love to her in every sense of the word. It wasn't so much pornographic as it was just "HOT" and romantic. But at the same time, absolutely no problems or deviations could be dealt with. If she didn't orgasm, there would be hell to pay. It wasn't enough that we were together and staring into each other's eyes while declaring our love for each other, it was as if every time had to be better than the last. There was a lot of implied pressure. The "beginning of the end" for our relationship actually started with a morning quickie gone wrong (she didn't orgasm), which escalated into how I "used her" and "treated her like a prostitute" and how she "didn't want me around if I was going to be like that". Zero to crazy in 3.4 seconds.

Both of them clearly derived much of their self worth (if not all of it) from sex. So long as I wanted to keep having sex with them all the time, then they felt validated in their existence. All of my romantic gestures, the cards, the texts, the letters, the poems, the flowers, the songs, my going out of the way for them on a constant basis - fueled on love for them alone - none of this mattered to them. In fact, I'd imagine I could've been generally aloof and abusive, so long as I kept feeding their "sexual ego", the relationship would've gone on. A scary thought.

I hope fishing at the Delaware brought you some peace yesterday.

[MontyD]

lhd981

My experiences are almost exactly the same, over the top and keeping score cards !

I read here on the boards that they are this way because, while they cannot have true intimacy, they replace it with intensity. The more they need intimacy, the intensity just goes up and up, but never replaces intimacy. So things go off the chart !

I believe that at one time my ex was truly starting to love me but the fear of engulfment took over and she became remote, started to push me away and the sex was turned off.

I see this cycle as them wanting love and intimacy, so they pull you in, but no one can have that without engulfment, so they push you away.

God, I wish I was 32 again !

Monty

[lhd981]

It makes a lot of sense that the so-called true intimacy is replaced with intensity for many pwBPD.

The comment you make about your ex's fear of engulfment resonates well with me. In fact, I noticed that there was almost a consistent pattern of her lashing out at me right after her feelings of love/intimacy seemed to grow stronger.

In fact, the more of a better partner I tried to be to her, the more she would systematically rage and me, make accusatory statements, or just outright push me away. After all, this is the same person who gushed to her mother about seeing me as "the type of guy [she'd] want to marry" and encouraged me to bring some more of my clothes to her place and leave them there "as if we lived together", but who also accused me of moving too fast and "wanting a wife." I did the worst thing possible and immediately take blame for everything - not to mention apologize, even for things that I "indirectly" did. Yep, let's just say that my large stature makes for one extra-wide door mat!

And I wish I was 21 again!

[flynavy]

Ihd981... .  I grew up in a tough neighborhood... .  Adult Child of an Alcoholic... .  fought in a war... .  yet found True Love for 32 years!  This is taken from my short story I wrote about my 2 1/2 year ordeal with a BPD/NPD woman.  The sex was literally off the hook!



“So what would make a seemingly intelligent, successful, loving, caring man, who just went through a terrible ordeal loosing his wife to cancer get and stay involved within this circle of Insanity”?

Did I say that the SEX was over the top!  Guess what guys….if it seems too good to be true….IT IS!  It was only about INTENSITY for her…not INTIMACY like it was for me.

[lhd981]

flynavy:

I read your posts about your wife of 32 years and I honestly teared up. But it also gave me a lot of hope that maybe I could find someone like that too!

For me, the sex with my first BPD exgf was so powerful that I actually started neglecting my business AND my friends alike - two things in my life that I've always taken very seriously. I was honestly so drugged up on dopamine that so long as I could get more "hits" of it through our over the top sex life, then I didn't seem to care about much else. It was a scary and very low point of my life. People even began to comment on how my appearance and demeanor were changing.

Exactly! If it seems too good to be true... .  

[flynavy]

Ihd981... .  Ya know what... .  I found love when I wasn't really looking... .  I was a young Navy pilot, focusing on working out, flying, doing something I knew was making a difference to protect this great country of ours... .  and she came into my life.  I knew it as soon as I saw her!  you will know it when you find it... .  you will definitely feel the difference!  Don't give up on Love cuz there is nothing like waking up every morning and going to bed every night knowing you are loved... .  unconditionally!