Thinks he is dependable and responsible... in what world?

[lizzie458]

dBPDh called and told me the power is out at our place, no idea when it will be restored.  Normally I would’ve just said “OK”, but we have an infant and a fairly good stash of breast milk (aka liquid gold) in the freezer so I had the nerve to say “can you please be sure not to open the freezer door so the milk will stay frozen as long as possible?”  He proceeded to monologue for the next few minutes about how he’s been through more power outages than me, and of COURSE he knows not to open the freezer, yadda yadda yadda.

It really irked me because I guarantee you had I not said something, he would’ve found some reason to look in that freezer several times (OK, maybe not, but believe me the chances are high).  It probably wouldn’t have ruined the stash, but the principle of the thing is what gets me.  His reality is just soo different from mine – I live in a world where, in 6 months, he has not had one day of taking our son to daycare where he has remembered to bring everything (and I lay everything possible out for him the night before in one bag).  I write “2 gallons of milk” on the grocery list and he gets 1.  The comprehension is just not there, and he dissociates a lot…but dang it irks me when he is so adamant about how he can be counted on for everything when it has been proven over and over again that I can’t count on him for anything.

Meh he can't help it.  In his mind he really does thing he's extremely dependable and responsible... .  and God bless him, I know he wants to be.  I know I was asking for it by making that request this morning, and now I’m just reaping the consequences of that…grrrr….gritting my teeth and bearing it for now.  Good thing I’m at work and he can’t see me rolling my eyes! 

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[lizzie458]

To be clear, I've made peace with the fact that I can't rely on him for anything and I still choose to rely on him for things I can't possibly do on my own - and when he jacks it up I'm mostly OK with that now.  It's actually done wonders for me in terms of growing my flexibility and patience.  It's the fact that he insists that his reality is THE TRUTH.   

[zaqsert]

Hi Lizzie,

It can feel so frustrating to hear our pwBPD insist over and over that their reality is the truth!  It sounds like that may be something to make peace with next.  I'm only recently starting to accept that my wife believes her reality to be the truth and that I cannot change that.  It helps.  I still have my moments of getting really annoyed and rolling my eyes, but it helps.

BTW, in case it helps, when we were in a bad storm, with an infant at home, liquid gold in the freezer, and were concerned about a power outage, I was able to pick up some bags of dry ice and a styrofoam cooler from the grocery store.  Fortunately, we didn't need it, but it felt good to have a backup.

[daylily]

Lizzie,

Same stuff happening over here.  I can't bring up anything that needs to be done, and certainly can't give a reminder, without my uBPDh getting really defensive.  Many times I'm not even asking him to do anything, just talking out loud about what the plan might be to get something accomplished, and he'll say "thanks Captain Obvious" in a sarcastic way, or he'll look at me incredulously and say "what do you think I am, stupid?"  Those are the more benign responses.  Sometimes he'll say something to hurt me when I remind him of something he needs to do.  For example, when I have to leave early for work before my S5 is up, my H doesn't get his teeth brushed.  I've asked him to do it, but for some reason for the longest time, he couldn't seem to do this simple task.  About a week ago I asked nicely and non confrontationally when I got home from work if S5 had his teeth brushed (I was going to do it if it didn't get done).  H got defensive and brought up the few times that our children have (accidentally) gotten hurt while I was caring for them, and how they don't get hurt when he's caring for them.  I obviously felt really bad about those incidents, so he knew where to strike, saying that my son's teeth may not get brushed but at least he doesn't get hurt when Daddy takes care of him!  After that though, he started making sure my son's teeth were brushed everyday.  Not sure what happened, but something stuck.  

I think with my H, he is always worried that people think he's stupid or incompetent, so when I say these things, he immediately assumes that's what I'm implying and gets defensive.  The defensive reaction, like everything else, is extreme and over-the-top, and sometimes involves trying to hurt my feelings because I have hurt his.  He has said before that motive or intention doesn't matter to him - if I say something that hurts him, he needs to hurt me back regardless of whether I intended to hurt him and even if it's an entirely innocent comment.  I could say "the sky is blue today" and he could shoot back with a dagger to my heart and feel justified doing that if he felt that it hurt his feelings in some way.

  :)aylily

[waverider]

It is good that you have come to terms with this, and this is just a vent. This is the standard behavior of BPD owning other peoples stuff, overstating their own capability and total premptively denying any perceived criticism. Not much you can do about it really, except to learn to live with it. Trying to fight against it will just make it worse.

Its just their insecurities at work

[bruceli]

However, in my experience, when it comes to something for them... .  they have the efficiency of a fine swiss time piece... .  Anyone else?

[waverider]

However, in my experience, when it comes to something for them... .  they have the efficiency of a fine swiss time piece... .  Anyone else?

Yes selective accuracy in memory and thought process can blow you over at times. They are not stupid or dulled in thought. It is just the motivation in assembling those thoughts are faulty

[jedicloak]

They are not stupid or dulled in thought.

This is a great thing I try to remember - BPDw can take care of things if she really wants to - she has the ability - it's just a matter of choosing to do it - and me NOT doing for her what she can do herself. This removes me from the FOG (fear, obligation, guilt) and letting her be responsible for herself.

[waverider]

They are not stupid or dulled in thought.

This is a great thing I try to remember - BPDw can take care of things if she really wants to - she has the ability - it's just a matter of choosing to do it - and me NOT doing for her what she can do herself. This removes me from the FOG (fear, obligation, guilt) and letting her be responsible for herself.

It is easy to actually disable someone by enabling neediness

[jedicloak]

It is easy to actually disable someone by enabling neediness

Oh my gosh! This statement is BRILLIANT and describes EXACTLY what I have done! waverider knows how to say much using few words - thank  you so much!

[byasliver]

They are not stupid or dulled in thought. It is just the motivation in assembling those thoughts are faulty

THIS is also brilliant! THAT is why they can "behave appropriately" in public but so inappropriately behind closed doors! And THAT is where our boundaries come in! OMG! I GET IT! waverider, you just solved a huge puzzle for me! I'm going to share this on another thread where we were talking about this!

[jedicloak]

They are not stupid or dulled in thought. It is just the motivation in assembling those thoughts are faulty

THIS is also brilliant! THAT is why they can "behave appropriately" in public but so inappropriately behind closed doors! And THAT is where our boundaries come in! OMG! I GET IT! waverider, you just solved a huge puzzle for me! I'm going to share this on another thread where we were talking about this!

Ok, wait a minute please! This is what waverider meant by that? I did NOT understand what he was saying there. This is why my BPDw can "successfully" manage her behaviors in public but not when she is 'free' to act out with me? OMG! So this maladaptive behavior can be changed - it's not a life sentence because I can set boundaries that say "I will not be around when you act out like this" and then she can choose to alter her behaviors (I knew she wasn't stupid)! This makes SO much sense now. Thank you, thank you. Please keep the wisdom flowing my direction!

[bruceli]

They are not stupid or dulled in thought. It is just the motivation in assembling those thoughts are faulty

THIS is also brilliant! THAT is why they can "behave appropriately" in public but so inappropriately behind closed doors! And THAT is where our boundaries come in! OMG! I GET IT! waverider, you just solved a huge puzzle for me! I'm going to share this on another thread where we were talking about this!

Ok, wait a minute please! This is what waverider meant by that? I did NOT understand what he was saying there. This is why my BPDw can "successfully" manage her behaviors in public but not when she is 'free' to act out with me? OMG! So this maladaptive behavior can be changed - it's not a life sentence because I can set boundaries that say "I will not be around when you act out like this" and then she can choose to alter her behaviors (I knew she wasn't stupid)! This makes SO much sense now. Thank you, thank you. Please keep the wisdom flowing my direction!

That is correct, however... .  there will be hell to pay when they don't get their way.  Did this just last week and boy did it bring on a reage session.  Just need to be aware and prepared.

[bruceli]

They are not stupid or dulled in thought. It is just the motivation in assembling those thoughts are faulty

THIS is also brilliant! THAT is why they can "behave appropriately" in public but so inappropriately behind closed doors! And THAT is where our boundaries come in! OMG! I GET IT! waverider, you just solved a huge puzzle for me! I'm going to share this on another thread where we were talking about this!

Ok, wait a minute please! This is what waverider meant by that? I did NOT understand what he was saying there. This is why my BPDw can "successfully" manage her behaviors in public but not when she is 'free' to act out with me? OMG! So this maladaptive behavior can be changed - it's not a life sentence because I can set boundaries that say "I will not be around when you act out like this" and then she can choose to alter her behaviors (I knew she wasn't stupid)! This makes SO much sense now. Thank you, thank you. Please keep the wisdom flowing my direction!

That is correct, however... .  there will be hell to pay when they don't get their way.  Did this just last week and boy did it bring on a reage session.  Just need to be aware and prepared.

Because hell have no rath like a BPD scorned.

[waverider]

The pressure and effort to hold it all together needs a release, often this can be why the higher the functionality the more extreme the release when it comes. To make matters worse the higher the functioning the narrower the release outlet, ie the less outsiders are aware it is happening.

Lower functioning are less able to contain the fallout, so often not as extreme but more often and widespread which is what makes them less functional, as it is harder to hide long term, and eventually turn everyone against them. Leading to social and work place isolation

NPD tend to fall more often in the high functioning bracket

[allibaba]

I'm starting to find that when I don't dance around asking my uBPDh to do things and I ask him to do everything as if he is a normal person... .  then it actually gets done and he enjoys doing it.  If I tiptoe around giving him responsibility then it makes him feel inferior.  For years I have been training him to rely on me (what was I thinking).

This weekend my husband did dishes, cooked meals, did laundry, planted gardens... .  we started off having a bad weekend... .  and I laid some boundaries and IT WORKED.  He joined me.  Believe me - if you told me a year ago that my husband would do as much work around the house as I had... .  I WOULD NOT HAVE BELIEVED YOU.  Last year, it was me running around like a chicken with my head cut off and my husband sitting around watching TV.

At the end of the weekend my husband said "Thank you for making me feel valuable this weekend."  I said "What do you mean?"  He said "by asking for my help in a way that didn't belittle me. I felt like you really needed my help."  The irony is that I do need his help.  I don't want to run the house on my own.  It was a little victory for us.

[waverider]

Often helps if you ask them to help you, rather than just tell them to do something. Seen as less of a complaint.

[bruceli]

The pressure and effort to hold it all together needs a release, often this can be why the higher the functionality the more extreme the release when it comes. To make matters worse the higher the functioning the narrower the release outlet, ie the less outsiders are aware it is happening.

Lower functioning are less able to contain the fallout, so often not as extreme but more often and widespread which is what makes them less functional, as it is harder to hide long term, and eventually turn everyone against them. Leading to social and work place isolation

NPD tend to fall more often in the high functioning bracket

Waverider,

Now that you mention it, I see a correlation.  The last time my BPDw was with her friends, upon returning home or them leaving, she had a fit, breakdown/became dysregulated.  Will need to observe this more.  Thanks.

[lizzie458]

What a great thread this turned into!  For some reason I've found the only time my dBPDh actually does quality work which needs to get done is when I've totally hit a wall and have given up.  For example, once in a while I let the housework really pile up because I just can't get to it.  It takes a long time, but eventually he clues in that he needs to pitch in, and he does it without asking 1000 questions and then ignoring my answers - only to ask me again.  I definitely need to be very careful about enabling his neediness.  He is clearly capable, and likes it when he can really come in and save the day.  I've tried reinforcing it, but that doesn't seem to matter.  Maybe I'll have to make myself scarce or turn it back on him with some "I'm not sure, honey"'s the next time he asks me for instructions on how to wash dishes

[waverider]

What a great thread this turned into!  For some reason I've found the only time my dBPDh actually does quality work which needs to get done is when I've totally hit a wall and have given up.  For example, once in a while I let the housework really pile up because I just can't get to it.  It takes a long time, but eventually he clues in that he needs to pitch in, and he does it without asking 1000 questions and then ignoring my answers - only to ask me again.  I definitely need to be very careful about enabling his neediness.  He is clearly capable, and likes it when he can really come in and save the day.  I've tried reinforcing it, but that doesn't seem to matter.  Maybe I'll have to make myself scarce or turn it back on him with some "I'm not sure, honey"'s the next time he asks me for instructions on how to wash dishes

It is a relief when they do step up to the mark, but like everything else consistency in meeting responsibilities is difficult. Once the impulse novelty wears off then it often defaults back again. Be aware of this and be prepared to work around it the best you can without being dragged into the push pull of trying to maintain it.

eg Allocating highly visible rewarding tasks is usually easier than the low impact chores. eg cooking a flash meal is more appealing than doing the dishes, or vacuuming the floors

[bruceli]

Yes, consistency and keeping their word seems to be enormouse issues for them.

[waverider]

Yes, consistency and keeping their word seems to be enormouse issues for them.

It is unlikely we will be able to change that, in the short term at least. So what can we do to ensure that living with, and around, it doesn't drive us nuts? That is what we need to focus on.

Its the old cant teach a duck to bark analogy, you often hear on these boards, it will drive us to despair, pisses off the duck and achieves nothing

[jedicloak]

Yes, consistency and keeping their word seems to be enormouse issues for them.

Its the old cant teach a duck to bark analogy, you often hear on these boards, it will drive us to despair, pisses off the duck and achieves nothing

Sorry if this is lame... .  but... .  

1) why is consistency & keeping their word enormous issues for them (to do)? They are technically capable right... .  is it a choice thing... .  they don't want to - so they choose not too (is this learned behavior)?

2) So we have boundaries to keep them from "driving us to despair & pissing us off? and we have the HOPE that perhaps us setting boundaries will encourage them to alter their behavior to be more consistent and keep their word about things... .  ?

[waverider]

.

1) why is consistency & keeping their word enormous issues for them (to do)? They are technically capable right... .  is it a choice thing... .  they don't want to - so they choose not too (is this learned behavior)?

I think it is because they live in the now, the feelings they have are extreme (black and white), so how they feel now is how their mind twists their version of the past to validate now, and the future is a projection of how they feel now. So as the mood of the moment changes so does their take on what occured in the past, also the plans for the future. This shows as changing recollections and constantly changing and cancelled plans. Its inconsistency of feeling driven priorities I guess.

eg I will never speak to XYZ again, tomorrow the impulse to speak to XYZ takes priority over todays promise, made on a feeling which is not present tomorrow. Hence the previous promise is void as seen to be pointless. Often the previous days feelings are being rewritten to validate the next days... . confusing hey?

It is not just the inconsistency of fluctuating feelings it is often the denial and covering up of these fluctuations that causes us to pull our hair out ("but you just said yesterday">>"no I didn't"

2) So we have boundaries to keep them from "driving us to despair & pissing us off?

Yep boundaries are primarily about isolating us from these patterns, by removing our participation this can often remove a degree of triggering and feeding of the behavior. They are not aimed at behavior modification directly only removing it from our presence, if possible.

and we have the HOPE that perhaps us setting boundaries will encourage them to alter their behavior to be more consistent and keep their word about things... .  ?

If this happens then that is good, but if we could apply these principle ideally (which of course is not the real world) we could then get on with our lives independent of the HOPE they may change, as we would be content and safe behind our boundaries. Our stuff vs their stuff... .  But of course nothings that simple, but we need a plan

[bruceli]

I think it is because they live in the now, the feelings they have are extreme (black and white), so how they feel now is how their mind twists their version of the past to validate now, and the future is a projection of how they feel now. So as the mood of the moment changes so does their take on what occured in the past, also the plans for the future. This shows as changing recollections and constantly changing and cancelled plans. Its inconsistency of feeling driven priorities I guess.

I agree, and that is why I always get, " never mind about other people and the past, what I am talking about is us now." 

[Chosen]

I find myself nodding to all the posts in this thread.

First, I think when they believe something is the reality, no matter how detached from reality it actually is, they really believe it at that moment.  BPD is a disorder when they tailor their "realities" to fit in with their emotion of that moment, so if they feel something, it is true.  I may be the best wife ever (no I'm not), but in my H's world I'm a horrible wife he cannot count on, I would leave him if he stops providing for me and doing stuff for me or loving me (hmm... .  then why am I still around), and only he loves me, I don't love him.  It's a sad fact because I am slowly coming to the fact that I will never get recognition for my role as a wife, because my husband thinks I fail at it.  He may praise me sometimes but the complaints far outweigh that, and whenever he feels sad it's my fault.  This is not reality but it is his reality.

My H does do stuff, but at his will and pace.  He does housework, but he won't do it if he's not feeling up to it.  But when he does he expects to be praised.  Also, him doing the laundry on a weekend, in his opinion, warrants the same amount of praise, if not more, than me cleaning the kitchen for 12 hours.  And oh, by the way, after the laundry's done, I'm the one who hangs it up.  Still, it doesn't count. 

[waverider]

I find myself nodding to all the posts in this thread.

First, I think when they believe something is the reality, no matter how detached from reality it actually is, they really believe it at that moment.  BPD is a disorder when they tailor their "realities" to fit in with their emotion of that moment, so if they feel something, it is true.  I may be the best wife ever (no I'm not), but in my H's world I'm a horrible wife he cannot count on, I would leave him if he stops providing for me and doing stuff for me or loving me (hmm... .  then why am I still around), and only he loves me, I don't love him.  It's a sad fact because I am slowly coming to the fact that I will never get recognition for my role as a wife, because my husband thinks I fail at it.  He may praise me sometimes but the complaints far outweigh that, and whenever he feels sad it's my fault.  This is not reality but it is his reality.

My H does do stuff, but at his will and pace.  He does housework, but he won't do it if he's not feeling up to it.  But when he does he expects to be praised.  Also, him doing the laundry on a weekend, in his opinion, warrants the same amount of praise, if not more, than me cleaning the kitchen for 12 hours.  And oh, by the way, after the laundry's done, I'm the one who hangs it up.  Still, it doesn't count. 

Problem is this is the way it is with BPD and you wont be able to change this. There are many things you can change, but these are core entitlement personality traits of BPD. All you can do is learn self validation along with acceptance and live around it.

It is a whole bunch of cumulative issues that would need endless amounts of small boundaries, which would become to hard to enforce and create endless conflict.

It sucks I know, but is the nature of the disorder that we have chosen to live with.

[Chosen]

Yes I suppose this is where "radical acceptance" comes in as well.

I am slowly learning not to judge- in "normal" terms, he may be a procrastinator, always undecided about things, and you can never get definite yes or nos from him.

But this is how he is.  He's not a "right" person or a "wrong" person.  He just "is".  Yes he may do things which are wrong, but that doesn't make him a bad person... .  just different, in ways I may never be able to understand.