No one would ever know...

[Hopeliveshere]

Outside my home, others wouldn't suspect the dual personality, Jekyll-hyde issues my high functioning uPDh displays.

But "close" family know differently. It all depends on the environment -- home vs work vs social.

As a baby he was abandoned to spend most of his days alone in a crib. As an adult he seems to enjoy being alone - subjects himself to it. 

Anxiety ridden with a depressive personality that is switched off in front of others, he has no sense of who he is. 

Defensive, manipulative & always ready for an argument – in fact that is about the only time he communicates, even tho it is ineffective. 

Many years ago when I shared that we were going to have a baby – he was absent - not available for comment.   

There was no reply or reaction when I needed major surgery & was diagnosed with cancer. Lacks empathy - unresponse to his sister’s death.

There’s no emotional intimacy; he doesn’t even react to 6 months NC, except rare emails. We live in the same house. He just accepts it and goes on with his life.

NC was my choice because I needed a break from escalating rages – I was drained - exhausted from 40 yrs of temper tantrums & physical absence & emotional abuse. Falls asleep or walks away when I talk to him.

I was neglected rather than wanted by him. Verbally he’d disagree but his actions tell a different story. 

Harsh, rigid, indifferent and inflexible. He’s hypersensitive with a lot of negativity, despair, hopelessness, anxiety, fear. 

Outside of anger, not much emotion unless he’s spending money.

NC prompted him to get outside his normally antisocial behavior and he goes to parties, gatherings without me. He just replaces me with other people & things. 

And lots of “toys”.

 

Previously when I went NC, his behavior woule change but when contact re-established, bad behavior returned. I don't want to go through that pain again.

Doesn’t seem to fear abandonment or being alone though – he just left on 1 week vacation by himself & planned another one in 4 months.

When he leaves, he always seems to forget about me/family – always goes NC. He repeatedly abandons "US"!

Refuses to go to all our 5 yr old grandson’s past birthday parties!  He dislikes sharing, especially sharing the center of attention.

Has no problem if I go away for a couple weeks. Never has shown signs of jealousy but is very flirtatious with others.

Not affectionate with me - says he’s uncomfortable being that way however affectionate to those outside the family.

He’d never idealize me or say nice things about me – but he’s ok with hostile jokes / mocking me (PA). Dismissive. 

He doesn’t tolerate me or himself being late. Cannot tolerate changes in plans, cancelling appointments or changing anything.

Every day he spends hour after hour watching violent TV shows. Poor moral values.

Very secretive, impulsive. 

He has a sense of superiority and entitlement.  He puts himself in positions of power. It’s where he gets his sense of self-worth.

Somehow this guy can morph into someone that outsiders like very, very much.

Has self harming behaviors; poor health habits. Arrested emotional development – often believe I’m talking with a 2 or 3 yr old. 

Says he has no problem with who he is - admits his anger is unacceptable and has had a problem with it most of his life.

I take care of myself, exercise every day and have several close relationships. Signed off my counselor because wasn’t helping – only

wanted me to talk about his good traits & said the obvious “We can only change ourselves.” 

Been there – done that – still trying to do that.

Yrs ago he was able to avoid diagnosis while in counseling.  Manipulative.

There was no change after a year in a 12-step anger management program. 

His heels are dug in - he’s very resistant / stubborn. 

[waverider]

I feel for you, you seem to have all the traits there. The stubbornness and sense of entitlement coming through the strongest.

It is unlikely you are going to be able to change him, especially as he seems to have a strong sense of independence without neediness. So boundaries are likely to be met with a 'whatever" type reaction.

I guess you can only work on how it affects you and work out for yourself if you want to continue to live this way, as it will not be easy and will need a high level of commitment to survive in what would seem only a companiate type RS rather than a bonded romantic one.

[Auspicious]

 

& said the obvious “We can only change ourselves

Well, it may be obvious ... .  but that's because it is true. And all of us - definitely including me! - seem to need frequent reminders.

I agree with waverider that you are unlikely to be able to change him. Change generally happens when people want to change.

People ultimately get help for things that bother them, not for things that bother us. You might find the book I Am Not Sick, I Don't Need Help to be of some use to you.

I'll note parenthetically that this might not be BPD. That isn't necessarily important in your choices, what specific illness if any he suffers from, though. Whether he has any illness or none, you don't like his behaviors. It's ultimately up to you to decide what, if anything, you want to change about your situation. 

[Hopeliveshere]

Thanks.

Waverider, exactly - when I set boundaries he's like "whatever".  I can't even have him for a companion - I'm in a marriage by myself. He takes care of finances. I don't even have access to, or see any of it. It's all done online with passwords that I don't have. He even gets the mail before I can see what it is. He opens it & leaves my mail by my bedroom (where I live when I'm home as I'm out most of the day with other people).

He suppresses any neediness.

Auspicious,  For some time now - and I'm being honest here - I was just waiting for him to die. I feel bad about that but it's true. He doesn't drink but otherwise health habits are bad.

He knows raging is wrong, but don't think he knows he is ill. Years ago he went for help at my request but outside home, if he gives you his time, he morphs into a delightful person. Without knowing the problem, nothing helped. It's like a physical illness---without a diagnosis it is hard to treat.

One thing I left out - if I need anything, like groceries, rides for surgery, housework, or "to do" list, he is right there to do it in an OCD manner. He just isn't there for me emotionally or as a companion.

If he even hears what I, or anyone not in authority says, he goes on to do whatever he wants to do.

I was looking for a book on PD so thanks for the suggestion.   

I'm here because I take my wedding vows seriously: for better or worse, in sickness or in health. By the way, 25 yrs after we married, against his will we repeated those vows and he couldn't even look me in the eye. Got angry when I asked him to.

It is frustrating to say the least how masterfully he can hide this from the outside world.

I know that is the part I need to let go.   

Thanks, HLH

[dickL]

uBPDw of 35 yrs very much like your H . very good at putting on her mask in public . only our oldest friends see the truth of how ill she's been her whole life , she recently recovered repressed memories of sexual abuse at 4. her behavior only appears "happy" when having promiscuous affairs or spending $ .  ignores the well being of adult live in mentally handicapped S when a new man is in her sights. i am learning what this has done to me and S and we're in T to get healthier . W has a couple of times , in tears and sincere no mask, admitted her brain makes bad destructive decisions and she's ill . then up goes the roadblocks and refuses any further T , she saw T during 1990's but was diagnosed as situationaly depressed and anxiety issues , " a garden variety fruitloop " suited her . she's only gotten worse . she's moved to another state w/old boyfriend , their 3rd try, 5wks nc. enjoying some peace and living day at a time.

[Auspicious]

Well, read I Am Not Sick ... .  . See what you think. I found it very helpful. It's not about PDs, it focuses more on schizophrenia, but that doesn't matter. It's really about how we relate and deal with abnormal behavior.

Waiting for him to die is ... .  one strategy.  Ultimately, you choose how to change things in your situation, or not.

[waverider]

Waiting for him to die is ... .  one strategy.  Ultimately, you choose how to change things in your situation, or not.

Thats a bit like gambling your life away though.

The vows of in sickness or health are particularly hard when the sickness is not acknowledged, as you feel like the one with the sickness and you are the only one affected

[bruceli]

Most know about my BPDw because she can only keep the mask on for a short amount of time.  Every week it's a new friend and the old one did or said something she did'nt like.  Also because of her drinking the average social drinker can't handle her daily 8+ beer habit and realizethat somethings up.

[waverider]

Most know about my BPDw because she can only keep the mask on for a short amount of time.  Every week it's a new friend and the old one did or said something she did'nt like.  Also because of her drinking the average social drinker can't handle her daily 8+ beer habit and realizethat somethings up.

I had to live through 20+ a day, on top of painkiller overdosing, with the empties, left under the cushions, stuffed in drawers, cupboards, under the mattress, hidden in the bushes, pushed through the fence next door. Finding the empties every time you opened a cupboard was answered with "wasn't me', even though there i sonly the two of us here. Must have been the bottle fairy !

After years of this we do seem to be over it. But as you can imagine the effects could be hidden from no one.

It can be beaten. A lot of the skills to tackle BPD also are helpful for dealing with addictions. One feeds off the other, but it does make it harder

[Hopeliveshere]

Let me tell you there are days I wish he would take a drink. Like I said, I've (safely) drugged him on holidays when no one was there except me and kids. I just didn't want to listen to the yelling and anger.

Now a new issue & question... .  not sure if I should put on new post or not.

I've had a few major surgeries in the past. One 36 yrs ago, emergency surgery done out of state while I was pregnant. In the afternoon after surgery was over he went back home 4 hours away so he could be with his first love, his job. Then at night he could be with second love, his TV. He came back 4 days later after I was discharged. I can't write on here what he did to me that weekend.

Then 30 years ago I had another major surgery. The next day he kept hitting, jostling my bed. When I told him it hurt and asked him to stop he got angry and left for a day or two. 

Same thing with the 3rd surgery.

Now I need surgery again and he found out from people who don't know much about what is going on with us (suspect something though). He emailed me and asked and I said I'd have it later. Well it is later and our D38 is coming 1000 miles to take me to the hospital and care for me after. I'm much older now and don't want him there or around me at all. D38 agrees.

I don't even want to tell him about it. I just plan to pick D38 up from airport and next day I'll have the surgery.  I don't know how to set a boundary on this or handle the questions he'll ask and he'll ask a lot. Thanks for any ideas or comments.

HLH   

[waverider]

Is there a way you can explain your concerns and somehow set enforceable boundaries. 30 years ago is a long time, has he changed at all? Not saying anything or banning him from the start is bound to create issues.

It may be if you explain it and say it is ok if he doesn't come, ie offering him an out, he may choose not to go. By banning or hiding he will be the victim. That is heading for an issue as it is direct invalidation

[bruceli]

Let me tell you there are days I wish he would take a drink.

Unfortunately BPDw gets worse when she drinks, not better.

[briefcase]

Hopeliveshere,

It sounds like you've been through a lot over the years in this marriage.  You sound completely worn out.  I'm sorry you have to have surgery and can't depend on him to help.  A lot of us have had surgery/health issues and been let down by our partners.

Are you interested in trying some of the tools in our Lessons and to see if you can improve things a bit?  Some of the things you posted lead me to believe you aren't really working on the relationship anymore.     

[Hopeliveshere]

Thanks for replies   

Yes, I'm exhausted. I cannot face the anger after another surgery. His family can't even believe how stubborn & mean he is. Says he likes himself the way he is. 

No, wave rider, no change at all over the years. Just that retired now so I have to hear it day and night now. The only reason he'd want to come is to save face.

My d40 will be here for me. She didn't even allow him at her college graduation because she didn't want to hear the raging and be at the mercy of his controlling attitude. 

One time we were out of state and I had to have emergency surgery. Immediately after surgery (Mon. morning) he went back home to go to his first love - his job. A relative came and took care of d4 at the time until I was discharged. I won't even take time to explain how cruel he was when I was discharged.

I've read some of the tools and not sure I can remember to use them. If I spoke to him I might try SET. Usually I'm scared when he says he's going to crash into someone who cuts him off!

I got to get out of here now. He'll be home soon  :'(

Hugs, HLH

 

[waverider]

Do you want to stay in this RS and improve it or do you want out?

I think you need to make some real life choices and gain the strength to take them.

At the moment you are living in Limbo land simply hoping to outlive him in order to escape.

Nothing is gained without tangible aims and goals. Hopefully being here will give you more clarity about your situation and the desire to change it. The change has to start within you

This does not bode well for your future as it stands. It sounds like you either have or are heading towards serious depression

[Auspicious]

His family can't even believe how stubborn & mean he is. Says he likes himself the way he is. 

The problem is that listing his deficiencies doesn't change anything. Only you making changes in your own life will change anything.

[Hopeliveshere]

Yes, Auspicious, the deficiency lists were written as a visual aid so I could see he is sick and it's not just my imagination.

In the past I've had bad habit of forgetting.

Now, you ask, what am I going to do about my situation?

For the past 12 years I've worked with professionals on changing myself. Ongoing.

Take good care of myself. Have good support neckwork. Exercise and time with friends everyday. 

I spent a year in codependence Class where I never fit in because that wasn't my issue,

but it was a good learning experience for me.

Thrice spent time in MC with no improvement / results.

He's said over and over, "This is who I am and I have a right to be this way."

He's always into his rights. Even when uncle shakes his head and says "I can't believe you are so stubborn and just don't budge." 

uPDh says: "Right."


I've said the hardest thing for me is that no one outside family sees this - he only

shows the Jekyll hyde around close family w/rare slips. I'm sole family member around here.

Second hardest is the push pull (I call cat'n mouse) and third is lack of empathy,

absent emotionally.

I have invented a new category here on bpdfamily.com. I'm not leaving and detaching.

I'm not staying and working on the relationship. I'm not undecided.

I'm staying... .  not working on it while maintaining NC.

Using SET pretty much infuriates him and gets us nowhere.

It's pretty amazing watching him move about the house, going and coming as if he

lives here alone.  He's pretty content with that AND all this toys - TV's, computers &

electronics.

Oh he may get uptight when he finds he's not invited to come to the hospital for

my surgery but if we don't converse about it, he gets over it.

I didn't go with him last month for his surgery. He had Zero reaction when he emailed the request

for a ride and I emailed back "No, won't be around." He didn't even respond.

When we have NC, he's on best behaviour. Doesn't last after we reconnect though.   

Strange story: Two weeks ago he asked if he could lay down the plastic cover under my

computer to protect carpet.

I said "No, 'cause carpet is wet. I came home, house unlocked. Stuff thrown around my

bedroom, and carpet wet / water spilled all over floor."

He wrote back "ok".  No questions asked. No offer to help clean up.

He is so detached I could have said, "no I'm holding off because my bedroom burned down."

He'd still say "ok" and move on. 

So I'm not making any decisions just yet even though I was thrilled as could be when he

left alone for his vacaton last week. Disappointed the day he came home and even though

I asked him not to come home early - he did as he pleased and was back home by hotel check

out time.

Thanks for being there for me... .  HLH

[MaybeSo]

Why not move out and get your own place?

The tools work with a pw BPD. I'm not so sure what you are describing is that... .

Has he hurt you physically? Are you afraid of him?

[Hopeliveshere]

If anyone goes it is him. He's done it before and can do it again when we have the funds.

Never been physical - not afraid of him. We just leave each other alone and go our own way at this time. I asked him to let me be

right now and he respects that.

At this time divorce is not the route for me.

I've spent 2/3 of my time on earth in this relationship. When I became a paraplegic he took care of me. I'm independent now though.

We're both flawed and leaving isn't always the best answer. 

Thank you for challenging me about leaving though because I've never defended staying with this relatnship. Now  that I have, I'm not sure I could defend my leaving.

I'd like to stay and work on this but can a person really make a difference by working on it alone? I mean don't both people have to work on the relationship? I have changed a lot already.

I truly believe both people have to give 100% and that your committments shape your life.

Consult with MFCC & a psychologist agree is BPD but mixed with other stuff -- ? narcissistic - has large sense of entitlement.

AS - very antisocial when we are together becomes more social when we are NC.

Depressed. Self harming but not suicidal.

Lots of mixed traits and like lots of others on this board, he can be a love - it just doesn't last - eventually his true colors come out.

I've occasionally emailed but not spoken to him the past 7 mos to try the tools here, but SET would not discontinue his raging, just put a hold on it until next time.

I'm not saying it is right, but at this time I'm taking a much needed  break from him.

HLH

[MaybeSo]

I think sometimes the difference when working on it alone, is about making sure you get your needs met elsewhere and are taking really good care of yourself.

Will that change him in some way? Probably not, but if you are taking good care of yourself and getting fulfilled in other areas of your life... . then what he's doing or not doing isnt so mission critical,  right?

[Hopeliveshere]

Thanks. That is right on, MaybeSo.

Everyday those words become truer and I love the peace in it. I can take good care of myself and get my needs met easily where I am right now in my life.

What he's doing isn't critical to me - doesn't affect me.

I just have to avoid having coffee at the same places or go to same movies -   

More true words - I need to get busy and learn the techniques to deal with

the attitudes and responses to rage and manipulation. I need to learn how

not to let my cage get rattled when he's rattling it. 

And another important thing -- I need to forgive him for stuff he's done and

continues to do because he can't help it if he has this illness and thinks on a different plane than I do. 

One of the harder things is that he goes out of his way to make sure family does not think he cares about them (the push)... . they are just NOT important to him.

Used to think he was faking this, but anymore, we really just don't matter -- unless we ignore him or go NC. Or if he has moved out. Then the pull kicks in. Ughhhh! Hate that game.

HLH

[almost789]

You say you are staying but on the undecided board? Perhaps you should switch to the staying board? If you are certain you are staying. One of your big concerns is his lack of empathy during cancer and surgery. I've seen this alot with BPD. I even know BPD people who claim they can managed somewhat of a friendship with people at which point the person becomes sick or cancer ridden. At this point they shut off, don't want to see or speak to them anymore. He is unable to give you the support you need. But it doesn't mean he doesn't care. Cancer and being sick and being in the hospital is a very emotional thing. BPD people don't handle these situations well. Hitting your bed and the like... . perhaps he was emotionally triggered and acting like a toddler would... . hit the bed... . see if your still there... . breathing... . ok. I think you should still be there for him when he goes for his surgery and care for him. YOU are capable of empathy. He is not many times. I don't think giving him a taste of his medicine is productive. Like not being there on purpose because he wasn't there for you. Also, the shutting down and becoming non comunicative is not uncommon for BPD men. Also on a positive note you say he's always there to ":)o" things for you like errand and the like. Men show they care by doing things for you. Not necessarily being emotional or communicating it, but by doing. So, It's pretty obvious to me he cares. He may be deep in denial now, that does not mean he will be deep in denial forever. I wouldn't push the issue if it enrages him, but its ok to say would you please see a therapist? I have only  two words for you right now patience and understanding.

[almost789]

Two more points, the "first love" thing with his work. This is his distraction away from the emotional pain he is in. Don't see it as a sign of being cruell to you. Be glad he's not doing things like getting addicted to sex/porn and or other addictive things like drugs and alcohol. Second, he says he has a right to be who he is and like himself this way. He's right. He feels this way because he knows he can't change. Would you rather have him hate himself. This will lead to more self destruction. He's coping the only way he knows how. He's surviving. Keep in mind it is likely he did not receive empathy when he screamed and cried in that crib as you say he was an abandoned baby. He was not mirrored empathy. Babies learn empathy from their caretakers. They are not born with it. He either had none, or it was very limitted. His brain developed without the empathy that every human being needs! Its not there. Keep this in mind when you think he is cruel.

[MaybeSo]

I agree with above posts... . especially the empathy component if he was not nurtured as a child... . and not choosing actions in a tit for tat manner... . (though it's human to sometimes feel that way!)... .

However... . Still want to stress... .

Take care of yourself!

Sometimes a recuperating mom does have to be separate from a active  toddler if she's in pain and healing from surgery... . it's unfortunate that his emotional development was stalled, but your peace of mind and healing after a surgery or illness is a priority! You matter!  Make sure you have lots of peace and nurturing care from others who can provide it!  You

deserve it!

[almost789]

I agree too. You must take care of yourself. You can't take care of anyone else if you don't care for you first. I think though that most of us have the ability to not just take care of A #1 Me. But can also do that and take care of others. If you chose to stay you ARE the emotional caretaker for them too.  If you are sick or can only care for YOU. Then at least don't see his inability to care for you as cruelty.