What do you do when they don't want help?

[Kami]

   My daughter attended her counseling appointment today and informed me that it wouldn't help her at all.  It's pointless, there is no hope - all she wants to do is die.  I tell her things could change, but she says "no" what's the use, she has been friendless for six years and all she wants to do is die.  She is angry at my husband and I and all people, she says.  I deserve to suffer, according to her, because I brought her into this world.  She is anorexic and cuts herself and now she wants to go back to using drugs.  The drugs were what changed her personality in the first place.  None of her old friends wanted anything to do with her, because she was no longer the same person and she is totally isolated.   

   She continually says she wants to die and is looking for a method to do it by.  This will probably be drugs.  I can't speak anything positive into her life.  She is so depressed and self destructive she has no hope and wants to bring as many people down with her that she can.  When someone refuses all help I don't see what I can be done.  I told her I'm here if she needs me, but it's so hard knowing I very likely will lose my 19 year old daughter.  She has been diagnosed with BPD and she is 19.

   Is there anything anyone has done in a simular circumstance that has helped?

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Eclaire5]

You seem to be going through a really difficult time Kami. Feelings of helplessness can be so intense when we realize that we cannot do anything to help them feel better. My dd20 is more of the act-out borderline, and does not internalize as much, so I cannot give you any examples on how I have dealt the type of situation you are going through. However, I can definitively empathize with what you are experiencing because I think all of us in this board have felt helpless trying to navigate this BPD maze. My only advice is to try to keep on giving her your emotional support and to encourage her to continue with counseling. Tell her that it is a long process and that she won’t find relief right away. Is she on medications as well?

[Zkarma]

Dear Kami,

    I am so sorry to hear about your daughter. It seems completely impossible to help them when they won't help themselves. MAKES ME WANT TO SCREAM SO LOUD! I don't get it either but I guess it's part of the reason treating BPD is so difficult.  My daughter is 14. She has had symptoms since she was born and they have only escalated. She has been cutting and self-mutilating for 5 years now. She has such intense self hatred and anger to such a degree that I didn't know was possible for a human being. She hates the world and blames everyone for her misery.  She has lost all her friends as she always smothers them at first then quickly finds reasons to hate them and eventually sabotages every relationship.  She has all 9 traits of BPD. She too constantly tells me life sucks for her and I need to stop being so dam optimistic, happy and compassionate because its all bull. She has not attended school or made it through a full school year in 3 years and the school just passes her through? We are trying to home school but about 2 months ago she informed me that her life is too hard and all she wants to do is die so why in the hell would she possibly make ANY effort to do school work. She's DONE with everythig and I'm crazy. She repeatedly blames me for her life and says I should have aborted her so she wouldn't be suffering now. She stays in her room 95% of the time unless forced to go somewhere and then always ends up making everyone miserable somehow during the outing complaining or lashing out with hatred. She was sent to DBT 2x after suicide attempts but ignored/complained both times and intentionally refused to participate/get anything out of it. The therapist, psychiatrist and DBT group all told me if she won't do her part there's nothing anyone can do to help.  Great? She refuses to take meds and is always saying she wants to die but says she is too cowardly to do so at the moment. She claims this is just one more reason to hate herself. She acts as though the only peace she will ever get is in death. This is gut wrenching to stand by and watch day after day, year after year. I absolutely don't want her to die but when someone repeats this desire over and over and NOTHING you try helps, it almost starts to feel like maybe that IS the only way for them to achieve peace.  HOW CAN THIS BE? I just purchased a book suggested by another member "I Am Not Sick, I Don't Need Help! How to Help Someone with Mental Illness Accept Treatment" and I'm anxious to start it. I hope maybe it will help since NOTHING else has.  I just want you to know you are not alone and unfortunately there are others who really do understand what you're going through. Just take good care of yourself (control what you can) and just keep loving your daughter every day. I believe there is hope it's just very hard to find through the constant darkness. Take care

[vivekananda]

Hi Kami 

Welcome to the 'parent's board' here. You are amongst people who know what it's like, and let me tell you straight up, there is hope.

It is a terrible situation you face, I can only imagine how it feels for you just now. While I have worried about my dd being suicidal, it is not the same situation that you face. To help you understand a little, and hopefully to give you a resource to help you, I have included this link:

www.nhmrc.gov.au/guidelines/publications/mh25

You can download the Clinical Practice Guideline for the Management of BPD. It pulls together all the latest research and is written for therapists in Australia. On page 126 the chapter on risk assessment begins. On page 128 it shows a table for estimating the probable level of suicide risk based on self harm behaviour. I hope it reassures you. It spells out the difference between chronic suicidality and acute suicidality. Please let me know if this help clarify things for you?

To have a dd (dear daughter) at age 19 with BPD is a very hard place to be. While she can be so immature and needing you, she is legally adult - and if it wasn't for this mental illness, she would be living a more or less independent life. And of course, she pushes you away and is constantly lashing out. This is so familiar, but it doesn't ease your hurt.

As I said at the start, there is hope, and I think that you joining us here is a step in the right direction. There is much support to be had and much sound guidance. Have you read the book: Overcoming BPD by Valerie Porr? For many of us here, this book spoke to our hearts and helped us start our own journeys.

How long has your dd been in counselling?

Cheers,

Vivek    

[griz]

Hi Kami:  Reading your post brought me back to the period where for almost 2 years all my daughter wanted to do was die.  She cut constantly and spent most of her time in bed.  I too thought at times as I was dragging her to therapy and the P for meds that maybe I wasn;t being fair to her.  Maybe this world wasn't a place that she could exist.  She was 16 at the time.  We lived like this for 2 years and there wasn't a morning that I didn;'t pause before I opened her door and said a prayer that she was still with us. 

She is now back in therapy and doing DBT group.  She goes to school and she finally has some friends. (much like your daughter, she lost all of her friends when things started going down hill).  Are things great? absolutely not.  But I do know that she was not ready to accept help 2 years ago when we tried therapy and DBT.  Hang in there and know we are all here for each other.

Griz

[griz]

viv:  thanks for that wonderful site.

Griz

[Kami]

   Thanks  for the replys.  It is almost scary how much I can't relate to what was said.  Especially by Zkarma.  She just about has me convinced that life isn't for her and she would be better off dead. 

   I deep down refuse to accept this.  I had an extremly difficult upbringing with severe emotional and physical abuse.  We were well versed in how to lie to doctors about how our injuries came about as children.  I swore my kids would never deal with what us (my siblings and I )  had to deal with.  I tried really hard to not let my kids face difficulties and because of this I feel that I failed them.  My daughter even told that she never had to face anything hard as a kid and feels ill equiped to face the world now.  Maybe this is true.  I would do anything for her and protect her from whatever would come her way.  Not that I would ever abuse my kids, but I think I protected them too much.  My mother says my daughter is spoilded and everything is about her.  I do believe I am at least partially to blame. 

   Anyway, I am glad to have found this site.  I can relate to so much of what is said and have never found this anywhere else.  Thanks so much everyone.

[sk8mom]

Kami, Hang in there.  I know how exhausting and difficult it is right now.  We are here to support you.  By being healthy yourself you can better serve her.  It is hard to do when I was emotionally paralyzed by my dd15 self destructive behavior, anger and suicidal poems and attempts.  She wrote poem after poem about death and wanting to die.  I was numb after a while finding these and reading them.  I could not believe my daughter could write these. 

School called constantly about her and they basically said, get her out of here, we cant protect her.

I have learned to not over react to her destructive behavior which just spirals everything.  She recently went to the ER her cuts were so deep.  I wasa angry and upset and frustrated but something clicked inside of me that said, she is hurting so bad deep down that she can do this.  My focus changed from my pride and embarrassment to just wanting to hold her and love her. 

I was given homework from her T to read a book called Cutting by Levenkron.  It has been a very helpful tool in understanding this behavior as well as anorexia.  I kept thinking that I could ignore it and it will go away soon.  but i was wrong.  So, I was able to see inside her and feel her pain.  It helped give me tools to approach her without insighting more anger.  There are ups and downs and her risky behavior has not gone away.  Our relationship is improving slowly.

I observed how the ER psychiatrists validated her internal pain, I watch the T and her psychiatrist do the same thing.  They react different than me, I would say things like, How could you?  and they say things, Wow, you must really be hurting inside in order to do this to yourself.

After the trip to the ER, 2 weeks later, she was suspended for bringing weed to school.  Of course, it was my fault.  I was embarrassed about the whole thing as everyone at school was talking about.  Deep down i was happy that the school admin could now punish her and hold her accountable for something that she thinks is harmless and would not listen to me. 

I hope and pray that you will be able to get some guidance and support here.  

[ledzep68]

Hi, this site is really helpful. I understand my sons pain and feelings but can not help him anymore. He goes from job to job, girlfriend to girlfriend. I have told him i am here if he needs me. We have just got him a flat of his own because we couldnt have him staying with us anymore beacuse of his drink and drug abuse. Plus his rages are out of control when in drink and drugs. He just wont stop. I am afraid for him and feel he will be a very lonely person. He has enrolled on an alcohol and drugs programme but feel he has only done it to keep us happy and that he does not really want to stop the drink and drugs. His girlfriend has had enough because he does the drink and drugs and yet she says he is a lovely person with such a lot of love to give. But it is wearing her down all the hurtful things he says to her when they fall out. But then he begs her to go back. Says he will change. But then still thinks it ok to keep doing it and spending all his money on drink and drugs. I am afraid I will end up paying for the rent as he just cant help spending his money as soon as he gets it on the drink and drugs because it makes him forget al his emotional pain. Even if he did not take illegal drugs and was on medication from the doctor. he would probably abuse them. I just dont know where it will all end. I am so stressed out by it all. It is affecting my job, health. All this worry. I try and talk to him but get angry when he blatently just does not care about anybody but himself.

I love my son and want him to be happy. But I just don't think he will ever be happy.

Ledzep68

[vivekananda]

Hi ledzep 

Welcome to you too. You have come to a safe place here. We know how it feels, you are amongst friends.

BPD is a hurtful thing to all concerned. I can understand your stress, not knowing where it is going with your ds (dear son). You will see from the posts that we are learning how to manage our own situations and learn how to better help our children too.

I would like to reassure you that there is hope. My dd32 spent most of last year in n/c with me, but we now have some contact and are both working on improving our relationship. There are lots of problems still, but at least we are on the upside. It took years to get to where she is now, it will take years to get better - it is not a sprint but a marathon.

Ledzep, why don't you start a new post here and introduce yourself to our community here? You could tell us a bit about your situation with your ds. And ask any questions you want.

cheers,

Vivek    

[Kami]

   I've been looking around this board for a while now and it is very imformative.  I've especially appreciated those who have shared their experinces and I can really relate to so much of what is said. 

   One thing I missed or didn't see much of is this:  How much abuse do you as a parent have to put up with?  My daughter seemed a bit better for a few days, then yesterday she went into another rage, calling me vile names, hating me for giving birth to her etc.  She hates everyone and wants to kill someone, she says.  Then she cut herself some more and absolutely sees no point in getting help.  She wants something external to come along and make her feel better, but won't take initiative to help herself.  I lock my door at night, because I'm actually afraid she might come in my room at night in a rage.  It's a horrible way to live and I'm trying to get my house cleaned and fixed up for a realtor to come and look at it, but I'm so useless and depressed myself.  I really need a break from all this!  What is expected from a person?  I want to get away to get some sanity myself.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[vivekananda]

Hi Kami,

You sound so tired and stressed. My heart goes out to you. You will be amazed at the core strength you do have. We all seem to be able to call on reserves and we do keep on. Of course having the support of our community here is such a strength in itself.

The basic rule we learn here is to look after ourselves. If we are not well then we can't help others especially our children. The second thing we learn is our tool 'values based boundaries' (the other tool is 'validation'.

If I can advise you to get some reading under your belt, it will be a great help. The best book that started me off was Valerie Porr's "Overcoming BPD". She is a parent of a child with BPD and runs the Tara Centre in NY I believe, for carers of pw BPD. Her book speaks to we parents like no other BPD book does. Then there are books on boundaries and validation that are so helpful, when you are ready ask us about them, ok?

In the meantime, have a look at this link:

BOUNDARIES: Upholding our values and independence

This is a simple explanation of boundaries. Mind you, if there can be a book written about boundaries, you know there is a lot more to it than we may think.

So, a simple boundary may be to say to your dd (when she is not angry and when the timing is right) if you reach a level of anger that is 5 out of 10, then we can't talk anymore. This boundary is important because a core value in our house is respect for others, when we are that angry, we are not respectful, so we must take time out. Set the boundaries when people are calm and can agree to them openly, when they are able to be reasonable. Are there others in the home? They should be in agreement too, it is a whole home thing.

Boundaries work both ways, and because you are mum you must be 'whiter than snow', you can't make mistakes because the girl with eagle eyes will pick them up and use them against you. So be prepared to monitor yourself and if you do make a mistake, apologise immediately. In other words, you are modelling the behaviour you want her to copy.

Have a read and a think and get back to us, ok?

cheers,

Vivek