I want to contact him

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

Hi all,

I haven't written/read anything on the boards for quite some time. I have been working day and night and have had no time to spare for anything else. It's still crazy hectic but today I found out I have to go in for an op to remove my uterus. And all of a sudden life has taken another turn.

My uBPDxbf and I ended our 4-year-r/s just over 4 months ago and have been NC ever since. The brief version:

After a chaotic r/s and a traumatic break for 7 months we were in CT with a DBT specialist for almost a year together before it got too much for him and he panicked, just when he was reaching a breakthrough. I was starting to feel more unsure about us because I needed consistency in our r/s and I wasn't able to get over some past events. When he again went into push I broke up with him, he wanted back, we tried again, he reverted back to his old BPD behaviors, I enforced a boundary and he sent me an email saying we shouldn't see each other anymore.

I was pretty OK the first 3 months, gradually detaching more and more and getting back to reality. Then I had one date and felt disappointed because it lacked all the things that had first impressed me with my ex, the connection, the attraction. So I was starting to seriously miss my ex in a way I hadn't before since the break. I don't want him back but still apparently there's a part of me that does and I am getting so exhausted telling that me to shut up. I constantly have to reason with myself and whenever I relax I find myself thinking about him as if I want him back when I really don't... .  I don't think.

The other day I happened to run into him when out walking, or almost. I was caught completely off guard. I have been planning what to say if and when this happened but not come to a conclusion as to what's best. Anyway, I saw him first and then looked down, seriously wanting to turn around and run away. I was so weary of his reaction I didn't look up again. I have no idea whether he would have spoken to me or wanted to speak to me but I am pretty sure he saw me.

Spending the whole day in hospital today made me miss him something awful. He was always so caring whenever I was sick or injured and he has taken me to the hospital many times. He would always be there for me. I just miss him. I have been reminding myself of all his flaws and of the problems in our r/s to keep me grounded. Remembering this side of him was something I wasn't prepared for. I can't help but wonder if I should let him know about my op just to see if he might contact me or offer me some help or something. And if he did I know it means he actually wants me back. At the same time I know I can't take him back because of this boundary that he will not accept. Could I just be friends with him? I don't think I could do it even if he could.

Any thoughts?

PS posted this in undecided also because I am actually not sure where it goes

[mitti]

Hi all,

I haven't written/read anything on the boards for quite some time. I have been working day and night and have had no time to spare for anything else. It's still crazy hectic but today I found out I have to go in for an op to remove my uterus. And all of a sudden life has taken another turn.

My uBPDxbf and I ended our 4-year-r/s just over 4 months ago and have been NC ever since. The brief version:

After a chaotic r/s and a traumatic break for 7 months we were in CT with a DBT specialist for almost a year together before it got too much for him and he panicked, just when he was reaching a breakthrough. I was starting to feel more unsure about us because I needed consistency in our r/s and I wasn't able to get over some past events. When he again went into push I broke up with him, he wanted back, we tried again, he reverted back to his old BPD behaviors, I enforced a boundary and he sent me an email saying we shouldn't see each other anymore.

I was pretty OK the first 3 months, gradually detaching more and more and getting back to reality. Then I had one date and felt disappointed because it lacked all the things that had first impressed me with my ex, the connection, the attraction. So I was starting to seriously miss my ex in a way I hadn't before since the break. I don't want him back but still apparently there's a part of me that does and I am getting so exhausted telling that me to shut up. I constantly have to reason with myself and whenever I relax I find myself thinking about him as if I want him back when I really don't... .  I don't think.

The other day I happened to run into him when out walking, or almost. I was caught completely off guard. I have been planning what to say if and when this happened but not come to a conclusion as to what's best. Anyway, I saw him first and then looked down, seriously wanting to turn around and run away. I was so weary of his reaction I didn't look up again. I have no idea whether he would have spoken to me or wanted to speak to me but I am pretty sure he saw me.

Spending the whole day in hospital today made me miss him something awful. He was always so caring whenever I was sick or injured and he has taken me to the hospital many times. He would always be there for me. I just miss him. I have been reminding myself of all his flaws and of the problems in our r/s to keep me grounded. Remembering this side of him was something I wasn't prepared for. I can't help but wonder if I should let him know about my op just to see if he might contact me or offer me some help or something. And if he did I know it means he actually wants me back. At the same time I know I can't take him back because of this boundary that he will not accept. Could I just be friends with him? I don't think I could do it even if he could.

Any thoughts?

PS posted this in undecided also because I am actually not sure where it goes

[momtara]

I am like you.  It's very easy to miss the good side of our exes - especially when we're alone.  And especially when we're on dates.  Because there ain't a lot out there that's great!  I haven't been on a date in a long time, but I dated a lot before I met my ex, and it was awwwwwful.

I think your reaction is perfectly normal, and nothing wrong with it.  Heck, he probalby has a very good side.  You and I both have to remind ourselves of the scary side in order to get our bearings.  I am with you, sister.  (In my case, I am going thru a divorce though... .  but constantly wavering on that.)

Think about the bad stuff and try to figure out if it was so bad.  If you think you need to contact him, and years down teh road, you might regret not having tried... .  maybe you should.   Lots of people would discourage you, but I am all for closure (or giving things a shot if it's not dangerous.)

It is sad that he didn't stay in therapy.  What a shame!

Is it possible he may want to contact YOU?  Or is he just going to reject you again?

[mitti]

Hi momtara,

Sorry to hear you are going through a divorce, it's painful. Detaching is painful. BPD is painful, for both.

I so know what you mean about dating. I don't really like that whole thing either. Was soo happy when I met my ex. He was all that I wanted in a man, to begin with. But even without considering the mirroring, which of course is part of it. That's what I want, a man that is attentive, listens and who has the same interests as me, the same value system.  That date I went on, OMG he couldn't stop talking about himself.

Think about the bad stuff and try to figure out if it was so bad.  If you think you need to contact him, and years down teh road, you might regret not having tried... .  maybe you should.   Lots of people would discourage you, but I am all for closure (or giving things a shot if it's not dangerous.)

Thanks for your support. Means a lot. And it feels good to hear that I can contact him, if I want to. Sometimes I am too hard on myself.

It is sad that he didn't stay in therapy.  What a shame!

It is sad. He stopped going a few months before we broke up. We were doing really well. I am still in T and just the other week I was talking to me T about some of the last things he revealed to her and me. I think they were kind of revelations to himself also in that he has never mentioned it, voiced it, before. He had said that he often didn't know where he ended and I began. I have been thinking so much about it. I can hardly wrap my head around it let alone get what it must feel like to not be aware of the boundaries of your own self, your identity - to not know what is you and what is another, wow, it is mind-boggling to me. This revelation of his has made me understand the dynamics between us much better.

Is it possible he may want to contact YOU?  Or is he just going to reject you again?

It is quite possible. I am pretty sure he didn't want us to break up when we did, he just wanted space then and I could't give it again. He would never contact me though if he thought there was even the slightest risk of rejection. I have always had to be the one to take those risks. He has told me he has wanted for me to contact him when we have been broken up, but sometimes only to get the satisfaction of rejecting me to hurt me, but he still wanted me back also. That constant BPD push pull conflict. I may still be split black, or my needing surgery and needing him may trigger his love for me. I do know he loves me.

[patientandclear]

Mitti, hi.   

I remember your story.

I also completely get the longing to contact him.  Like you, dating others since my ex has only reinforced how much I miss him.  It's complex though, because my subconscious or my superego or something keeps reminding me that in addition to the genuine mutual interest and fun and challenge of our relationship, there was also dishonesty, and betrayal.  So when I see these other men, and then I feel "wow, it was so much better with [uBPDex]," and then I think "except that he violated really important promises to me and broke my heart, but other than that, he was a way more fun partner than [current guy]!"  It's all pretty confusing.  How they were both the best and the worst partner.

But yes, I totally get missing him.

As for contacting him though?  Here's my question.  What then?  Do you see a path that is open to you now that wasn't open this past winter when this break occurred?  Is your thinking different?  Do you have any reason to think his actions would be different?  Or would you be more able to accept his actions?

If not ... .  then is going back in going to do anything except ensure that you aren't really open to the next surprise happiness opportunity life leaves on your doorstep when you are least expecting it?

You asked if you can be his friend.  As you might recall, I tried to do this with my ex.  I loved him, like you love your ex, but I felt I understood that he would sabotage all intimate relationships and everything is a trigger, etc., plus I'd set a boundary in our r/s (he needed to look within & figure out what caused him to end things so abruptly, if we were going to try again to be romantically involved) and he chose not to do that work, so ... .  the most we could be was friends.  So I went back in.  I thought my eyes were wide open.

But Mitti, he immediately pulled me very close again, the kind of close you only really feel with a partner.  And then he did a big projection episode where he acted like I was trying to be his gf and he rejected that.  And was cold and distant for about a month.  And only warmed up again when I stopped trying to get an explanation for this very hurtful loop.  But then pulled me very close again.  And made what appeared to be real strides in genuine intimacy (we were practicing being close despite our differences, exploring them together, rather than pretending we were just alike, as had been the case in the initial mirroring phase).  And were in territory I don't think he ordinarily goes (introducing each other to family, engaging in some careful repair work rather than dramatic push episodes).  And all in all, it was really worthwhile, except that the intimacy and the intermittent reinforcement ended up eroding my clarity and I felt such strong love for him again, and ... .  

Then he suddenly just left town. Like, permanently.  That's a longer story but for here, the point is, he might as well have broken up with me out of the blue again, except that since we're "friends," the rules say he doesn't have to come up with an explanation and an apology, he can just go, and I'm supposed to be fine with it.

I think a friendship between the two of you is likely to implicate the same intimacy triggers that your romantic r/s did, but with fewer avowed rules.  It is highly likely he'll engage in the same kind of behavior that hurt you before.  And as you know since you've reengaged before, there is a special kind of heartbreak when, having already been hurt, you take the risk of giving that person another chance to be in your life, and it IS good, and they still wreck it or allow it to be wrecked.  It is a very particular kind of heartbreak and waste.

I get that maybe you need to re-engage because you are just not done, and you need to know.  I would say, like others said to me before I re-engaged, that actually you DO already know how it will play out, but sometimes we need to feel it & touch it in order to believe it.  That was true for me.

[mitti]

Hi patientandclear,

Thanks for your response and sorry I took time to reply. My days are so crazy working all hours 7 days a week at the moment. Anyway, my present situation kind of resolved itself, or at least for now, in that I will not have the op as I found an alternative treatment for my problems. So all of a sudden I again felt OK not contacting him knowing I can later should I want to (and if I do I know I will end up with the same conundrum).

As for contacting him though?  Here's my question.  What then?  Do you see a path that is open to you now that wasn't open this past winter when this break occurred?  Is your thinking different?  Do you have any reason to think his actions would be different?  Or would you be more able to accept his actions?

Yes, I did ask myself this, and I don't know. My immediate wish was just to be comforted, to have him care for me, to not be alone when going through something like this. One thing that did hold me back was the fact that I don't know if I want anything else, and I didn't want to have to make that decision now. But as for him, I KNOW there would only be one thing on his agenda if he would have responded and come to my aid - get back together because he needed me, not because I needed him then. He just can't be selfless.

No, I don't see a path open to me. I haven't heard anything at all from him or about him for more than 4 months but I doubt anything at all has changed. I believe he has buried his head in the sand re his issues. He is probably blaming me. If he has calmed down and I am no longer black to him I am pretty sure he would try to change, but I know it would never work because that BPD darkness will always come back. It's not his fault, it just does, and it seems he is as taken by surprise every time although he has gone through these cycles probably his whole life. If anything I am more decided than ever before to not compromise any more of my values. What was a deal breaker to me before, which broke us up, still is, and he would have to change that before we could try again. As much as I love him I am not prepared for any more hard work. I would need a quick fix to some things, the deal breaker being one of them. I come to the same conclusion every time, I need to move on and because I do, it's best not to contact him. It makes me sad just writing that because I miss him every day.

Being just friends I don't think I could do. I remember your story with your ex. It must have been torment for you to just be friends with your ex, emotionally more like a r/s but you have no claims on the him because he refuses to admit what it is. It seems this is often the pattern with pwBPDs. You are very strong to have been able to stand it. Personally I would get to too frustrated and jealous. I believe, if I am back in his good books, he would think a friendship with me to be optimal. That way he gets what he wants and he doesn't have to give anything back, just the way he likes it. It would all be on his terms. Like you say, they can do what they feel like and we are supposed to be fine with it because we are "just friends". By the way, I did read about what happened in the end between the two of you, I am so sorry it came to that but I am glad you have been able to move on and come as far as you have. It's a difficult process, isn't it.

In all honesty I don't know if I am through. I want to be though. I want to meet somebody else. I want to be in a r/s and not with a man with BPD. I don't want to be the only one to give and never have my own needs considered. I don't want to an extension of his own self. I want to be my own person and be seen for me. I just wish he could be that man but he can't and I can't wait.

I asked my T last time I saw her about his chances of recovery. She said he would need extensive and intensive psychological help and as he has already lived his whole life like this his prospects don't look that good. I think when she said that I felt liberated in a strange way. There's really no point for me to fight for him, not that I have since the breakup but I am also not over him, because he will never get better. He will never be able to give me what I need and I really need.

[bewildered2]

remember that if has BPD then he has the most serious mental illness that there is... .  and that mental illness guarantees that you will be on the receiving end of emotional abuse... .  

it is very sad, but that's just the way it is.

you are addicted to the way he made you feel when he was being nice.

but what about when he was being abusive?

make sure that you remember how he made you feel then... .  

keep moving forward. without him. it is hard, but going back to him will cause you more pain than pleasure.

b2

[leftbehind]

my ex wanted to be friends too, but I just couldn't do it.  I knew what it would look like, and that I would lose my mind.

That way he gets what he wants and he doesn't have to give anything back, just the way he likes it. It would all be on his terms. Like you say, they can do what they feel like and we are supposed to be fine with it because we are "just friends".

Exactly.

[eniale]

Know how much you miss him.  And know when you compare others to all the "good stuff" he looks even better.  My ex cheated on me while at my same time demanding my fidelity.  I never saw it coming.  My therapist did an interesting thing.  She listened to all the good stuff, families liked each other, his friends liked me, we both loved to travel, loved the same music, same documentaries, etc.  Then she drew a circle,  on a paper and divided it like a pie.  In one she wrote "family", in another "friends" then "travel" then "music" -- you get the idea.  There was one blank piece of "pie" left.  In it she wrote "sex".  She then said that we got along in all areas, except I wanted (and thought I had) an exclusive relationship while he obviously wanted variety.  She then said "it's just one piece of the pie, but it's a very BIG one to disagree on."  It brought sudden clarity to me.  When we are down, sad, sick, weak, naturally we think only of all the good stuff.  But did all the good stuff make up for all the bad stuff?  In my case, NO.

[mitti]

Hi bewildered2,

You are right and remembering his abusiveness is what keeps me moving further and further away. I don't want that back. I simply find it hard to forget the illusion of him, that man I am still in love with and can't seem to get over. I have been 4 months NC now and I have had no problems not contacting him. I feel I would loose all self-respect if I did. But it is hard when I feel lonely.

[mitti]

Know how much you miss him.  And know when you compare others to all the "good stuff" he looks even better.  My ex cheated on me while at my same time demanding my fidelity.  I never saw it coming.  My therapist did an interesting thing.  She listened to all the good stuff, families liked each other, his friends liked me, we both loved to travel, loved the same music, same documentaries, etc.  Then she drew a circle,  on a paper and divided it like a pie.  In one she wrote "family", in another "friends" then "travel" then "music" -- you get the idea.  There was one blank piece of "pie" left.  In it she wrote "sex".  She then said that we got along in all areas, except I wanted (and thought I had) an exclusive relationship while he obviously wanted variety.  She then said "it's just one piece of the pie, but it's a very BIG one to disagree on."  It brought sudden clarity to me.  When we are down, sad, sick, weak, naturally we think only of all the good stuff.  But did all the good stuff make up for all the bad stuff?  In my case, NO.

So sorry eniale that you had to deal with infidelity, it sucks big time. My xH (not my xBPDbf) seemed to have the same idea about our marriage as your ex. It was awful. I have never regretted leaving him.

Thanks for sharing. It can be so revealing to have it presented to you as your T did for you. No, all the good stuff does not make up for the bad. I just want to get over him already, forget and erase him from my memory so that I can start anew but it just doesn't seem to happen. I hate these days when I think about him almost as much as when we were together but I don't see him. I compare everybody else to him, and not even him but the idea I have of him, the man I thought and hoped he was. You know, the one he was in the beginning, who isn't real. My T once told me that it is harder to cope with losing an illusion than real loss. Not sure why anymore... .

[eniale]

You say:  "I compare everybody else to him, and not even him but the idea I have of him, the man I thought and hoped he was."

See what you are saying?  That the idea you had of him was only your PERCEPTION of him, not who he really IS.

I went through (and am still going through) days when I think about him a lot.  Even now, not a day passes, but... . it IS getting less.  You can do this.  If you are lonely, go to this site and you will not feel so alone. 

My therapist said "He did you a favor by showing you who he really is."  She is right, and I also take responsibility because I saw many red flags, but he was so good compared to what I had met thus far, that I was too impressed by his accomplishments.  Now I think if I were to just meet a nice, average guy, but one who had the character traits of being trustworthy and honorable, true to his word, I would think I was a lucky woman. 

[mitti]

That the idea you had of him was only your PERCEPTION of him, not who he really IS.

Kind of yes, but he misrepresented himself. The image I had of him was how he wanted me to see him. But of course it is not who he really is. It takes time to get that through your head because we would never do anything like that. It really is hard to wrap your head around.

They seem so perfect, to begin with. But because my perception of him is a real experience I want that. It did exist for a brief moment and it was real then. I know I can't get it with him but I want it with somebody, but this time not to be an illusion.

[eniale]

You said "It did exist for a brief moment and it was real then"

I know what you mean & that is the really tough part.  My ex said "when I said it I meant it."  At first this infuriated me, but then I realized he was probably telling the truth.  The Good Part:  I was not a gullible fool, unable to separate truth from lies.  The Terrible Part:  He is unstable, his thoughts/feelings change constantly.  He is like a flag:  he blows in the wind.  What is true from him today "I just love you so much, you were meant for me, when it comes to other women you have nothing to worry about" is not true for him tomorrow.  Try to keep this in mind:  he is unstable, his thought processes do not work like yours.  I think the bottom line is that people like this are damaged & will say/do whatever they need to get whatever they need, right or wrong.  Like a starving person who knows it is wrong to steal, but has no money & sees a loaf of bread.  Their needs supersede any sense of right or wrong.  Try telling yourself "I deserve better than this."  You can have compassion for him, but I think contact is like ripping the scab off a wound.  Do you really want to start bleeding again?

[leftbehind]

He is unstable, his thoughts/feelings change constantly.  He is like a flag:  he blows in the wind.  What is true from him today "I just love you so much, you were meant for me, when it comes to other women you have nothing to worry about" is not true for him tomorrow.  Try to keep this in mind:  he is unstable, his thought processes do not work like yours.  I think the bottom line is that people like this are damaged & will say/do whatever they need to get whatever they need, right or wrong.

Eniale, you are describing my ex to a T.  The bold print were his exact words to me.  Is there a handbook out there for borderline people to follow in their relationships? 

It still hurts so much, but I really don't want to keep giving my ex the power of my emotions and thoughts.  I really need to bring all that power spent obsessing over him back into my own life.  Does anyone have any suggestions around this?

[Hopeliveshere]

Sorry for the suffering you are going through. I hope it passes quickly.

I've recycled 3 or 4 times. Each time he returned to the person "I fell in love with, the one I thought he was."

But it didn't last long.

I went NC for 3 years and felt good about my life. But there is a hold they have on us.

I even tried being friends. That failed.

The illness was always waiting to re-surface with him being unavailable and raging at the drop of a hat   :'(  

I wish you success.


HLH