Value of trying to get through to enDad

[Depression = 72% of members]

I'm having this issue with my enDad that's really bothering me.  I am due to give birth in a few weeks and in talking with him about when and where I want people around, I told him I didn't want him and my stepmom to come to the hospital while I'm giving birth (cause ew) and that I would prefer to have him initially stay with my brother rather than me when the babies arrive (we're expecting twins), to give me and my husband a chance to figure out what things are like with a new baby and if we'd like extra help, or need our space, or whatever.  enDad is apparently offended by this (as well as by the fact that last Thanksgiving although he summoned everyone to his distant home I decided not to go as it wasn't a good time for me to be away).  So now he's saying that he'll just stop by for the baby naming, and that's it.  It reminds me so much of uBPD mom!  All or nothing, either total enmeshment or total distance.  He can't be a normal parent who loves and supports me while respecting my space. 

So my question is, is it worth addressing this with him?  Should I even try to express my position to him?  The problem with having a conversation with him is that he's deeply dishonest - with himself and with others.  Having a conversation would be purely for the pleasure of expressing myself.  He's probably not going to change at his age.  And honestly if he's going to act like an entitled 3 year old, I don't need him around at what is bound to be a really happy, yet intense and emotional time.  I don't need him throwing tantrums because no one is paying enough attention to him while I'm trying to take care of two new babies. 

Honestly I can differentiate his behavior from uBPDmom's less and less.  And that's so disappointing too.  I really thought he was different and I could stay close with him even after I decided I don't need BPD craziness in my life anymore, but maybe I just need to practice the same thing I do with my mom - not to compromise on what I need, not to discuss it or open it up to debate, just take the space I need and if they can't handle it, let them go their merry way.  But it makes me so sad to think that neither of my parents will be involved in my kids' lives in any meaningful way.  Fortunately I have great siblings and great inlaws so it's not like there's no family to turn to for support but I had really hoped my dad would be part of the picture, and it seems like he already is having trouble with that. 

Any advice?

[Cordelia]

I'm having this issue with my enDad that's really bothering me.  I am due to give birth in a few weeks and in talking with him about when and where I want people around, I told him I didn't want him and my stepmom to come to the hospital while I'm giving birth (cause ew) and that I would prefer to have him initially stay with my brother rather than me when the babies arrive (we're expecting twins), to give me and my husband a chance to figure out what things are like with a new baby and if we'd like extra help, or need our space, or whatever.  enDad is apparently offended by this (as well as by the fact that last Thanksgiving although he summoned everyone to his distant home I decided not to go as it wasn't a good time for me to be away).  So now he's saying that he'll just stop by for the baby naming, and that's it.  It reminds me so much of uBPD mom!  All or nothing, either total enmeshment or total distance.  He can't be a normal parent who loves and supports me while respecting my space. 

So my question is, is it worth addressing this with him?  Should I even try to express my position to him?  The problem with having a conversation with him is that he's deeply dishonest - with himself and with others.  Having a conversation would be purely for the pleasure of expressing myself.  He's probably not going to change at his age.  And honestly if he's going to act like an entitled 3 year old, I don't need him around at what is bound to be a really happy, yet intense and emotional time.  I don't need him throwing tantrums because no one is paying enough attention to him while I'm trying to take care of two new babies. 

Honestly I can differentiate his behavior from uBPDmom's less and less.  And that's so disappointing too.  I really thought he was different and I could stay close with him even after I decided I don't need BPD craziness in my life anymore, but maybe I just need to practice the same thing I do with my mom - not to compromise on what I need, not to discuss it or open it up to debate, just take the space I need and if they can't handle it, let them go their merry way.  But it makes me so sad to think that neither of my parents will be involved in my kids' lives in any meaningful way.  Fortunately I have great siblings and great inlaws so it's not like there's no family to turn to for support but I had really hoped my dad would be part of the picture, and it seems like he already is having trouble with that. 

Any advice?

[Kwamina]

Hi Cordelia,

Congrats with the upcoming twins!

Sorry to hear you're having these difficulties with your dad. I can see why your disappointed in him.

You have enough going on right now, if I were in your position I'd probably leave things the way they are with your dad. At least for now. Maybe you can talk to him after the twins are borne.

[Cordelia]

Thanks Kwamina!

I'm sure it's better to just leave it be and just try to be at peace with my dad's limitations.  I'm just so sad to think that not only will my kids not know their grandmother (uBPDm) their relationship with their grandfather on my side will also be extremely limited.  I know I can't force a relationship to be there, or to change who my dad is and what he's capable of, but I guess I just got really in the habit of going to my dad to fix whatever sadness or disappointments I had about my mom, and my instinct is once again to present my problem to him and say "fix it!" even though it's not within his capability to do so this time.  He is who he is, and he's really always been this way.  I will do my best to be emotionally mature and just be there for my disappointment... .  but damn it's hard. 

[Kwamina]

Hi Cordelia,

Accepting this reality is very hard indeed. I think we always still long for the parents we never had. What helps me deal with the disappointment is that I've drastically lowered the expectations I have of my BPD relatives. I basically expect them to misbehave, at first this caused me to be on guard for imminent attacks all the time but now I'm more relaxed. It feels good knowing that I'm better prepared to handle whatever craziness they throw at me. I actually had another strange incident with my mother yesterday. I was at her place and we were having a good time, but then she started talking about her father who has been dead for 60 years. She was calling him a piece of ___ and all sorts of other things. At first I thought she wasn't really that serious and I called my sister to tell her about it. At a certain point my mother looked directly at me with venomous eyes and said 'Yes he (my granddad) was a piece of ___!'. That's when I realized the lowering of expectations was really working. I sensed that the Witch could come out but unlike before, now I knew what to do. I remained calm and in the end my mother calmed down too and the Witch didn't make her appearance. It's still unpleasant of course to see her act like this, but I realized I wasn't disappointed at all, It's what I've come to expect.

[Cordelia]

Just an update - this issue continued to really bother me, so I expressed to my dad that I was disappointed about the way he's planning his trip.  This of course led to him accusing me of being selfish and demanding and unreasonable, but I didn't take the bait and make it about me, or degenerate into name calling, I just kept the focus on what the problem was from my perspective.  When I didn't let the argument go the way he was expecting he hung up on me in frustration.     As much as I know I didn't get through to him really and the conversation is unlikely to change anything major in his behavior or our relationship I felt really good about being able to articulate what I felt in a polite but firm way.  Far too much of my life has been lived in the despair of thinking what's the point of saying what I feel?  No one will listen anyway.  It could be that in this case my dad isn't able to listen and really understand my perspective but being able to have a rational and civil discussion of disagreements is an important value to me and I feel relieved that I acted on it.  I feel like I protected my inner child, who needed to be heard, even though I'm not sure what practical benefit the conversation is going to have. 

We'll see!  I do think there's more hope of actual understanding from my dad than there was from my mom.  That's why I still talk to him.  Although he's a deeply dysfunctional person, I think he's a loving person at heart and motivated to make relationships work with those he cares about.  He just doesn't necessarily know how to do that in a healthy way and needs some extra patience.